Wayne Rosso on the RIAA
p2pnet.net News:- Bottom line, says Mashboxx chairman Wayne Rosso, the people working at the front end of Big Four Organized Music cartel ‘trade’ organizations such as the RIAA, BPI and IFPI, are just ordinary folks, following orders.
“I founded an authorized p2p a couple of years ago named Mashboxx,” he says in a post to p2pnet.ca. “We were supposed to have launched ages ago, and little did I know not to trust timelines that record labels and developers give you. Shit happens. In fact, I just signed the fourth and final major label license about a month ago.
“It’s a long, slow process. And it’s way more expensive than I ever dreamed. So looking for money took us a year. But we came to terms with an investor and we’ll be making some big announcements soon.”
But, Rosso continues, “what I’m going to say next is really going to piss you off. And that’s my feelings about the RIAA.”
When I was at Grokster they were the perfect public foil for my ranting. Nothing like a cold, faceless, out of touch DC lobbying and trade organization to attack and humiliate. Though in all honesty they did give me some great material to work with. But once I founded Mashboxx I started dealing with the people there and started to understand their position.
Although I’m not always in favor of the tactics the RIAA employs, I now realize that the staffers there are just following the directions of their members. The members are the ones who set the strategies and the RIAA implements. I know. Sounds like a familiar excuse. “I was just following orders.” But the truth is that I have grown to like the guys at the RIAA personally. Mitch Bainwol, Cary Sherman, Steve Marks and many others (even the secretaries) have been really nice to me. They’ve been unbelievably supportive and I feel I can count on them to help me with any problems that may arise.
Here again, I don’t always agree with some of their positions, but these people are only doing their jobs to the best of their abilities and trying to pay the mortgage and send their kids to college. If you’re really honest with yourself you’d admit that you’d do the same.
And by the way, I’ve had the same experiences with the IFPI. John Kennedy is a great guy. Very charming and astute. Richard Gooch and Geoff Taylor have also been great. And Steve Redmond and Roz Groome at the BPI as well. They’ve all been supportive above and beyond.
So even though I may cringe at times when I read certain things in the paper, I’ve come to learn that these are decent people who are doing what they have to do. I know that I’m going to catch a lot of shit for this, but I don’t care. People have to just start forgetting about all of the animosity and move forward.
The fact of the matter is that unbridled unauthorized p2p as everyone knew it is dead and has been for years. It’s just that not everyone saw that it was going to come crashing down. It had too. The mass trading of copyrighted content just couldn’t go on like it was. And it shouldn’t have, by the way. I was trying to change things behind the scenes four years ago, Now the record labels have finally caught up and are actually adopting many of the business ideas that I and others were proposing in 2002. In fact, they’ve been slow to come around but are making good progress and things are moving faster than ever.
So I have to give credit where credit is due. They’ve come a long way and it’s been difficult. And in the next six months you’ll see some drastic moves from the labels.
They’re getting there.
Also See:
p2pnet.ca – RIAA – Just doing their jobs , October 23, 2006
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October 23rd, 2006 at 1:12 pm
“Frankie here ain’t so bad. Most of the time he’s a decent human being. It’s just when he’s got to do his job and take people who I don’t like behind the wood shed if you catch my drift. But Frankie, yeah he’s just a big teddybear, right Frankie?” “Yeah boss”
October 23rd, 2006 at 1:34 pm
I think that you’re confused with your analogy. You assume that the RIAA people are doing something immoral or illegal. Actually, according to the law, its the opposite. Like I said, I may not always agree with some of the policies or strategies, but the bottom line is that they are exercising their rights under the law. People just have to get over the fact that they can’t keep on violating copyrights. We’re all going to have to get accustomed to paying.
Wayne Rosso
October 23rd, 2006 at 1:45 pm
” think that you’re confused with your analogy. You assume that the RIAA people are doing something immoral or illegal. Actually, according to the law, its the opposite. ”
Since almost no one can understand or interpret confusing, and
misleading copyright law, the ‘legality’ of what they are doing
isn’t really all that clear.
Also, payola is both immoral and illegal.
The analogy that poster used indicated his opinion that the
industry behavior is like that of organized crime, sometimes
forcing what they want under ‘color of law’. Racketeering.
They , and you know that unless someone has pockets deep
enough to fight back, well paid gasbags will continue to belch out
spin for them.
I think the analogy is spot on.
The only difference is instead of baseball bats
they use lawbooks.
October 23rd, 2006 at 2:06 pm
how much did they pay Rosso to say this and P2PNet to publish it.
October 23rd, 2006 at 3:08 pm
It is unfortunate that so many people equate politeness, or civility with being right and rudeness with being wrong. This individual has become friends with the people who run the RIAA etc and now that they are on good social terms, he has decided that they are pretty nice folks.
Check it out and you will find even Stalin had a few people who truly liked him. So did the worst of the Nazis, Attila, and so on. Since nobody at the RIAA has murdered anybody yet, I assume they are even easier to like.
But just because they need to pay their bills, send their kids to expensive schools, whatever, it doesnt make it right for them to do what they do. Any drug dealer, illegal gun dealer, con man or even hitman could claim they need the money and use the proceeds from their crimes to help somebody.
And “just following orders” was the famous line used by Eichman during his trial.
Sound like this fellow Rosso has been sucked into the same fog of BS that many another poor fool has encountered. “Be one of us and everylthing will make sense”! Well sorry Mr. Rosso! When anyone, individual or trade organisation or government hurts people as the RIAA has, they are wrong, DEAD WRONG, regardless how pleasant they are to you in their office.
October 23rd, 2006 at 3:41 pm
I was going to post something similar right before reading your reply. Just because these creeps are nice to him doesn’t mean they’re good people or justified for suing thousands of people.
George W. Bush called Kenneth Lay a good man. I guess all the people whose lives were ruined as a resuly of Lay’s ruthless crimes should realize that Lay is a good man so he must have had a good reason for doing what he did.
Rosso has always been interested in turning P2P into a business. He wanted to convert the Manolito network into a pay service before deciding to help launch Mashboxx. He never really was on our side he just like he was a rebel by throwing a few insults the RIAA’s way.
If Rosso really wants to be honest with himself he would address the issue of people people sued by his friends. And for what? Are the labels losing money? No, business is booming but I don’t think he’s honest enough to admit that copyright infingement doesn’t harm his friends.
Not too long ago he boldly stated that people would have to start getting used to buying music again. He was implying that free P2P would be gone. It doesn’t look like his prediction was right.
October 23rd, 2006 at 4:30 pm
The Ormond Street Children’s Hospital folks must be good folks. They are responsible for policies and strategies designed to protect their copyright rights under the law for Peter Pan. If they don’t do their jobs, the hospital will cease to exist, as it relies on royalties and revenues and licensing from their perpetual copyright in Peter Pan. A closer look, and we might find a hospital that could exist with several morally and ethically motivated policies and strategies that don’t include stifling progress in the arts and sciences. But, rather than pursue such honorable strategies, that copyright holder has chosen to destroy and intimidate and pervert the laws of every country in the world.
P2P network applications permit the world to reexamine the concept of copyright, and decide how it should be adjusted to reflect the Digital Age. The good folks, like Wayne, and the entertainment cartels need to join the discussion, not by stifling progress in the arts and sciences, but by encouraging the world community to participate in their future. Why would anyone want to prevent creators from creating, innovating, and moving the world forward? Why would anyone want to perpetuate the concept of “consumer”, rather than stimulate those “consumers” to better themselves and their families through creativity and innovation? P2P network applications form the tools that can do that. It’s the right thing to do. In fact, it’s the entertainment cartel’s job to do that. Maybe it’s time for Wayne and his thugs to do their jobs.
October 23rd, 2006 at 4:35 pm
And you are a fat piece of shit supporting the traitors at the RIAA that are violating our constitution and corrupting our governement for the benefit of foreign companies. If you the shitman, glueman and big four majors exec think that they can continue breaking our laws like that they are dead wrong and dead! Yopu see we are boycotting to death anything RIAA inmcluding your crappy music service! And as fare P2P being dead or dying well I believe that you are masturbating yourself and taking your desires for reality! More than 99% of all the music downloaded on line is via open source P2P client server application and nobody know what the encrypted and anonymous P2P network are doing. The reality is that you are doomed all the money you and your investors spend are lost and it will teach you a lesson not to try to deal with the devils.
Even if the big four had managed to develop in a significant manner the “”"”legal”"”"!!!! on line service we would have DDos it permanently day and night until they are forced to cease operration.
We are boycotting the parasites to death we are recruiting people to do so everyday we are now giving our money to the cool independant artists and not to the Britney slut and MadonaCrap parasite.
Have a nice death I will spit on the grave of your evil business Rossco!
October 23rd, 2006 at 5:07 pm
As I stated in my peice, I don’t always agree with the policies and stragetgies of the industry. I thought that I was very clear about that. But its a new world and everyone has to get over it and move on. Your Ormond Street Hospital example is a very relevant point. In all fairness though, no one was as belligerent when teh cable industry pursued criminal charges (not civil) against people who gerryrigged their own cable connections. In factm the RIAA lawsuit campaign was modeled from the cable industry. And believe me, it much easier these days to get things done with the record labels than it used to be. Things will be a lot different soon. And I personally feel that things will come full circle and that music will be free. I think that the labels are learning more and more about alternative business plans and are more open to them than ever. In order to make progress you have to be in the same room and have civil debate over the issues. Otherwise its like North Korea.
October 23rd, 2006 at 5:50 pm
” In order to make progress you have to be in the same room and have civil debate over the issues. ”
So true,
why then do they refuse to allow anyone with a dissenting view to
be in the room when policy is made, or debate COULD take place ?
The only way to be allowed to discuss anything with them is to be
in their pocket, as you are. Please don’t discuss the merits of open
debate until they accept OPEN debate with those who don’t agree
, and are willing to do it publicly, as in live, on TV.
Their position IS so weak, that they won’t debate in good faith.
October 23rd, 2006 at 6:00 pm
Wayne wrote: “[...]but the bottom line is that they are exercising their rights under the law.”
guess what, the nazis also were just “exercising their rights under the law” when they killed the jews! (I’m german, I’m allowed to use Nazi analogies to show a picture without killing the discussion!)
Wayne come on, I mean did it ever occur to you that the law might be wrong?
And since when did even the flawed copyrightlaw give you the right to use an SS-Center (Settlement Support) to scare even clearly innocent people to better pay the RIAA. Yes, that’s what the RIAA members are doing, suing people that could not even infringe record label rights because they have no computer or their computer can could not operate the software they claim was used and where they claim to have screenshots from shared folders!
–
kdsde
October 23rd, 2006 at 6:33 pm
“As I stated in my peice, I don’t always agree with the policies and stragetgies of the industry. I thought that I was very clear about that. But its a new world and everyone has to get over it and move on.”
No, we don’t have to get over it and accept the RIAA’s policy’s. You chose to embrace it even though you claim you don’t always agree with their methods. There are alternatives and file sharers are overwhelmingly proving that they don’t want DRM infested files.
“And believe me, it much easier these days to get things done with the record labels than it used to be. Things will be a lot different soon. And I personally feel that things will come full circle and that music will be free. I think that the labels are learning more and more about alternative business plans and are more open to them than ever. In order to make progress you have to be in the same room and have civil debate over the issues. Otherwise its like North Korea.”
I have no idea what goes on in your meetings but, through their actions, they have shown that they really haven’t learned much. They continue to sue file sharers and they continue to spew propaganda through various dishonest “copyright education programs”.
P2P is evolving. New ways to share content is emerging so while your friends are busy converting Imesh, Grokster & Kazaa into crappy DRM’d infested pay services, file sharers are learning about new ways to share content with each other for free.
The music industry tries to convince people that sharing is wrong and dangerous. They hire companies to spread decoy files and to some extent, these campaigns work. But there are thousands of people like me who help file sharers figure out how to avoid these worthless decoy files. And no one is paying us a dime.
Every day, thousands of people discover better ways to share files. You can’t keep us ignorant. The big labels only saving grace is that most people actually want to support artists and continue to buy music. Keep calling them thieves and you might have a problem down the road.
I think your job is safe but mashboxx will be about as successful as the Napster pay service. Your friends need to realize that they can make even more money by embracing file sharing instead of trying to control the Internet and suing file sharers.
You can put any type of spin you want to try to make it seem like they have changed but the fact is that they’re using the same old bully tactics and still believe that DRM is the answer.
October 23rd, 2006 at 7:18 pm
Drake
I don’t think that you and some of your peers are getting it. If your beef is DRM, I’m telling you that I am having conversations about that topic now. And don’t be surprised to see some if not all of the labels abandon DRM.
As far as being in the pocket of the labels, any of them will be happy to tell you that I speak my mind to them all. I am my own person. But they are now my partners and I would be remiss if I did not point out issues to the labels that I felt were either being poorly handled or dismissed without due consideration. I have a fiduciary duty to my sharholders to do so.
And once agin, I said that I do not always agree with the their tactics and strategies. But they are within their rights. The law of the land specifically states that users do NOT have the right to infringe upon the record labels’ copyrights. If you had written the code for some very unique and valuable software I’m sure that you’d go to even greater lenghts to protect your property. I know if another company infringes upon my patents I’ll file a lawsuit against them if they don’t comply.
I think as you get older and mature a bit you’ll start to understand more.
October 23rd, 2006 at 7:24 pm
kdsde
You’re right in that some of these lawsuits are unfair or mistaken identity. And I hope that the industry drops them as soon as they are brought to light. I’m sure that they have in some cases. And I don’t like these lawsuits anyway. And frankly I don’t think that the people at the RIAA enjoy them either. I mean really. Who wants to spend their time filing thousands of lawsuits? Believe me that this is not what Mitch Bainwol and Cary Sherman went to college for.
October 23rd, 2006 at 7:26 pm
Don’t worry. If you send me your name and email address, I’ll be happy to have you banned from our service and perhaps save you some of that hot air.
October 23rd, 2006 at 7:52 pm
“I don’t think that you and some of your peers are getting it. If your beef is DRM, I’m telling you that I am having conversations about that topic now. And don’t be surprised to see some if not all of the labels abandon DRM.”
I think we get it.
DRM is a major concern but it’s not the only one. The RIAA portray themselves as artist friendly but how many artists have the big labels ripped off? How many times have they been found guilty of bribing radio stations? And yet they call file sharers criminals?
“And once agin, I said that I do not always agree with the their tactics and strategies. But they are within their rights. The law of the land specifically states that users do NOT have the right to infringe upon the record labels’ copyrights. If you had written the code for some very unique and valuable software I’m sure that you’d go to even greater lenghts to protect your property. I know if another company infringes upon my patents I’ll file a lawsuit against them if they don’t comply.”
I believe copyright laws are ridiculous. They’ve been crafted by the industry for the industry so telling me that the law states the RIAA’s position is correct is laughable.
“I think as you get older and mature a bit you’ll start to understand more.”
I’m old enough and more mature than you’ll ever be.
October 23rd, 2006 at 8:39 pm
Money horny Wayne Rosso is saying that crap to make RIAA people not go after his money! That guy is corrupt as the RIAA Mafia.
October 23rd, 2006 at 9:20 pm
So I guess if you write a book you’ll not mind if everyone just takes a copy for themselves without paying you for it?
And I don’t know, son. Sounds like you have a bit of growing to do.
October 23rd, 2006 at 9:21 pm
True. I do like money. Corrupt. I don’t think so. I’m not a thief. Nor a liar. Nor am I anonymous.
October 23rd, 2006 at 9:26 pm
I don’t necessarily believe that. I think that the RIAA people in particular are happy to make their case in public. Whether or not they may win the debate in another issue. But I actually think that they welcome the opportunity. They’re really not as villainous as one might think. Actually Mitch in a great guy. I really like him. And he’s been totally a totally stand up guy to me.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:51 pm
“So I guess if you write a book you’ll not mind if everyone just takes a copy for themselves without paying you for it?”
If a few thousand people are downloading it for free then in all likelihood it means that tens of thousands are buying it so, no I wouldn’t mind at all. Maybe I’d even send you a copy for free. Who knows you might actually learn something.
“And I don’t know, son. Sounds like you have a bit of growing to do.”
Ah, I see. You don’t know me but yet you believe I have a bit of growing up to do. You always provide great insight.
October 23rd, 2006 at 10:57 pm
Axtually, Drake. It is you who is providing the insight
October 23rd, 2006 at 11:17 pm
Great. Please share it with all your friends at the record labels and don’t forget to send them my regards.
October 24th, 2006 at 1:37 am
“Who wants to spend their time filing thousands of lawsuits?”
Oviously THEY want to!
Correction; of course they don’t want to. What they want to do is extorting money fast and without resistance! Once they feel resistance they drop cases like a hot portatoe to avoid some precedence like setting summary judgements against them.
“Believe me that this is not what Mitch Bainwol and Cary Sherman went to college for.”
How do you know THAT? Have you asked why they alledgedly went to college?
If you really believe what you are telling us then you are incompetent. If on the other hand you are just pretending to believe it, then I must regard you as a liar. And of course you are just as anonymous as everybody else here commenting! Or did Jon meet you in person and that way he could handle you the pseudonymus Postername “Wayne Rosso”
If you don’t understand/know the difference between anonymus and pseudonymus acts of posting you might want to look that up in wikipedia. A place where IP is shared freely without charge!
–
kdsde <- that is an example of a pseudonym
October 24th, 2006 at 3:09 am
Wayne has some big suprises for you all coming next year with a big name brand and as much as you think he’s a a asshole and a loudmouth hes right about the bussiness side of unrestricted commercial peer to peer has disapered after the Grokster ruling, in the US at least .
Like it or Not the record comapnies and studios have the US courts and politians that the RIAA and MPAA lobby in thier pocket and peer to peer for the majority of users in the US will ether be filtered or you will pay a tarrif for the privlige like the EFFs Voluntary Colective Licencing proposal .
The Hardcore will just go underground and use encryption and tunnels to share .
October 24th, 2006 at 3:56 pm
How do you think they will filter open source apps? Anyone can setup their own BitTorrent tracker, use IRC or Freenet to share torrents and enable DHT so that their torrents are not dependent on the tracker.
How do they plan on stopping p2p streaming apps or anonymous p2p apps? Eventually, if the current popular p2p apps are no longer an option, file sharers will migrate towards another p2p app. I don’t think it will go underground.
October 24th, 2006 at 5:21 pm
Execs form many tech companies including the ever so evil
are in the offices of the Record Labels and Movie Studios on nearly a daily basis asking them to give the consumer a better deal because the end consumer keeps them in business.
“Mr Russo”
Yahoo Music CEO David Goldberg has publicly stated he would rather not have to deal with DRM when it comes to selling music and it costs Yahoo plenty of money just to support and licence DRM .Ian Rogers one Yahoo Musics Product Managers and the original Yahoo Music engine developer would rather that Yahoo Music dropped DRM altogether and move to a eMusic subscription model.Ian has been an outspoken opponent of DRM for quite a while now .
The only company that really benefits from DRM at the moment is Apple because of its “FairPlay” ecosystem ,but as Wayne points out in this thread he and others are in discussions with the labels about offering MP3s .The Labels are STILL not very happy with Steve Jobs stance on Variable pricing and if they offer MP3s (probably watermarked) that are playable on the iPod then they can also offer variable pricing on all the other content services that will play on various cross platform devices and systems .They may experiment with pricing at this point and offer new releases at a higher price without DRM and offer lower prices for back catalog content that they may have not made any money on in the past .
October 24th, 2006 at 8:35 pm
With all the remarks about the stupidity of those proposals for corporate giveaway of information chewing-gum (a.k.a. “content”) one should never discount the power of publicity.
Once the labels undertake a concerted effort of educating the masses about their offering, it may outstrip our little P2P world at an alarming pace. Like in the decade-old Win95-against-OS/2 story, their technical inferiority, the burdens of ads and DRM simply won’t count.
There is still a lot of potential “consumers” out there (the 10 million figure for P2P is pathetically small and seems to be stabilizing), and we may eventually discover ourselves being outnumbered by the other side, like in a game of Reversi played on an ever-expanding board. The good thing, it may make pointless the prosecution of filesharers.
October 25th, 2006 at 12:45 am
Drake, THEY™ might not filter the apps, but remember this (now nearly lost) network neutrality thingy?!
If the “Information Superhighway” is plastered with toll booth and patroled by MAFIAA highway troopers then there will be not much room left for “illegal downloading” (as they like to wrongly name p2p)
–
kdsde
October 25th, 2006 at 11:44 am
Wayne is very good at the art of “viral” advertising when he was the CEO of Grokster he would relish when the RIAA mentioned the name Grokster to the press and would watch the numbers of visitors and downloads increase every time they did .Whether they Like it or Not the RIAA and MPAA have become very efficient publicity vechiles for p2p .
Mention P2P and the **AA’s in one sentence and you have a potential new story .
October 26th, 2006 at 2:39 pm
They still don’t get it.
Even if they filter, someone will figure out a way to spoof the
filters.
Just like the way EVERY DRM/copy protection scheme has been
cracked.
The tighter they squeeze the harder it is to hold us prisoner.
Why are you so eager to convince everyone to give up and give in ?
October 26th, 2006 at 2:48 pm
“I think that the RIAA people in particular are happy to make their case in public. ”
And yet only one side of the issue ever appears on the news.
Only the RIAA’s opinion ever reaches mass media.
Everything they do. publicly, ONLY show one side of the
debate, from TV to Public Schools to the Boy Scouts.
Their side is the only side.
No , the LAST thing they want is public knowledge of both sides,
including the recent cases that they ran away from, before LOSING the
case and setting an unfortunate precedent for them.
“They’re really not as villainous as one might think. ”
You’re right, they’re worse.
Instead of baseball bats, the use lawbooks.
Racketeering is Racketeering, regardless of the quality of the
suits.
” I really like him. And he’s been totally a totally stand up guy to me. ”
That’s because your his property now, like a ferret, or a chimp.
October 26th, 2006 at 3:01 pm
” But they are within their rights. The law of the land specifically states that users do NOT have the right to infringe upon the record labels’ copyrights. ”
The law of the land also allows for fair use, and LIMITED monopoly
on copywritten works, a limit which has been extended “legally’
beyond hop of most current works EVER reaching public domain.
The “Law of the Land” has been manipulated to a purpose not
originally created for.
As pointed out by someone else, killing Jews was ALSO law of the
land in some certain country. While some didn’t like that policy,
it WAS after all the law, and therefore right just and good .. right ??
“I think as you get older and mature a bit you’ll start to understand more. ”
Ahhhhh I see that you are running out of solid talking points, and
have to resort to insults, implying that anyone that doesn’t believe
as you must be .. immature .. or somehow intellectually stunted.
Most of us here aren’t impressed by such arguments and see them
simply as an attempt to deflect notice away from the real issue.
The RIAA is in fact as criminal as they come.
Payola
Fraud
Duh Gee Tennesee ??? How can I pay my artists .. I cant FIND them ???
To have people like THIS attemtp to criminalize everyone else
is just plain absurd.
To hear them characterized as “Great Guys” is just laughable.
oook oook
October 26th, 2006 at 3:16 pm
” True. I do like money. Corrupt. I don’t think so. I’m not a thief. Nor a liar. Nor am I anonymous. ”
Good for you.
Another difference between you and most of us here ??
You are backed by a wealthy cartel, with control of a lot of
lawyers, most of US are average or below average income
( like most of the folks sued in their blackmail suits ).
Wealthy corporate entities are backing mouthpieces all over
the world to sue sites like this, or individuals, for Libel, whenever
an OPINION is expressed that they don’t like ( or feel needs to
be silenced ). There is good reason to believe that someone
controlled like a sock puppet by a corporation would be happy to
sue someone for libel, to shut them up.
So, we will remain anonymous, in order to avoid the modern
equivalent of having our kneecaps broken with a baseball bat …
The Libel suit.
October 28th, 2006 at 7:15 am
As a businessman you suck! And as a citizen you are a parasite and a traitor.
You don’t get it do you?
And to save you the little brain power with single digit IQ let me tell you something:
We are the customers and we decide who is going to get our money!
Sorry not to you and not to your crappy company and not to the 4 criminal majors coproration! You can fuck yourself with your DRM shit!
It’s turn out that your crappy business is already banned by us.
You are a parasite and a traitor because you are helping foreign companies violating our constitution.
There is laws against that and if you thing that you and your gansterous friends at the RIAA/MPAA can continue to persecute the US citizen while exercising their constitutional right you are wrong!
Sooner or later they will be serious consequences!
July 17th, 2009 at 8:12 am
я бы сказал не интересно, а разумно