Apple G5 claims
p2pnet.net News:- If you bought Apple’s claims that its Power Mac G5, launched last year, was “The world’s fastest, most powerful personal computer,” that it “edged out the competition on integer” and that it had “the world’s first 64-bit processor for personal computers,” maybe you should think again.
Dell Inc begged to differ and lodged a complaint with the NAD (National Advertising Division (of the Council of Better Business Bureaus) which describes itself as “the advertising industry’s self-regulatory forum”.
Apple should “discontinue and modify its comparative performance claims for its Power Mac G5,” suggests the NAD, also recommending that it “discontinue comparative performance claims regarding its Power Mac G5 personal computer”.
Apple “expressed that it supported the self-regulatory process and voluntary compliance with NAD recommendations,” says NAD, adding that Apple “further stated that its ad campaign has already run its course” and that it “will be mindful of NAD’s views in its future advertising”.
Does that mean consumers who shelled out for the G5 on the strength of Apple’s claims are in a, well, intereresting position?
March 27th, 2004 at 7:40 pm
I think this is a bunch of bored CEO’s with nothing better to do causing problems. I tried to complain to the NAD / BBB about DELL’s complaint but I was not able to find a link, or section, on the website to do this. Funny thing is that the tests to prove the G5s performance were explained in detail as well as the thinking behind why the tests were conducted in such a manner. A the time the results seemed fair enough to me.
March 27th, 2004 at 8:50 pm
Waaa! Waaa!
Micheal Dell
March 27th, 2004 at 8:51 pm
Every company is going to believe that they are the bigger and better out of the rest of the companies. Doesn’t always mean it’s true.
What will Apple do when a new system comes out that is faster than the G5? Are they still going to claim that it is the “the world’s fastest, most powerful personal computer?”
March 27th, 2004 at 9:12 pm
I would have liked Apple to include a price comparison between the Dell and
the G5 – both with dual processes, 500 GB of disk, etc. Dell is much
more expensive at the high end.
For speed comparisons, I would have limited them to the biotechnology family
of applications – BLAST. Let’s see Dell explain why their more expensive and slower computers are a better deal.
March 27th, 2004 at 9:47 pm
Microshit owns the NAD/ BBB and since Dell is their girlfriend, they are ganging up on Apple
March 27th, 2004 at 9:48 pm
Microshit owns the NAD/ BBB and since Dell is their girlfriend, they are ganging up on Apple
March 28th, 2004 at 12:27 am
Good. Just more validation that Apple makes sub-par computers. Apple is lucky to have 3 percent.
March 28th, 2004 at 12:48 am
The only good thing about a MAC is the OS, too bad you need a Mac to run it…
…wait I can buy a more powerful computer (PC) at about 1/3 the price and crank up BSD on it, then I’ll have a better computer at a 1/3 of the price. The only thing that makes a mac user unique, is their inability to see through Apples trendy marketing hype and purty translucent colours, although last time I checked translucency didn’t equate to higher processing capabilities
March 28th, 2004 at 12:50 am
errrrrr slight drift of focus……
March 28th, 2004 at 12:53 am
Those claims were made a long time ago, and the 64-bit processor for the home user was a pretty big deal. That computer, according to the spec tests apple showed, brought the ’slow’ mac back into the lead…
what dell is talking about seems to be the $15,000 workstations which are not sold to the home user, normally. so apple is fair, they just should have worded it.. the fastest home computer out there.
the g5 is supposed to hit 3 ghz this year.. that’s incredible… hopefully everyone reading this knows the difference btw 3 ghz g5 and a 3 ghz p4.. or else, well you’ve been lied to over and over and over
March 28th, 2004 at 12:57 am
apple doesn’t really make business machines like dell..
so the 3 percent you’re talking about is apple (home + education) vs. dell (home + education + business)..
a GREAT deal of computers sold go straight to businesses.. ever been to a bank? notice all those computers in the back… those are figured into marketshare..
now obviously, they can’t just figure out how many computers are in use.. they can’t track that.. all they can do is track sales for the year…
so it’s like a replacement market share.. some say that macs don’t break down as much *shrug.. so if dells are replaced more frequently they’ll have a ‘better’ replacement market share..
the fact that apple doesn’t sell business machines is a big one.. they’re getting a toehold with the Xserve though
March 28th, 2004 at 2:12 am
This is good news. It means Apple has Dell worried, finally. Poor Mikey Dell must have whined to a frat brother on the NAB to come out with their ridiculous statement.
March 28th, 2004 at 3:50 am
Good points. I found this interesting, from September 2002:
http://www.distributed.net/pressroom/news-20020926.txt wherein it states:
“Our peak rate of 270,147,024 kkeys/sec is equivalent to 32,504 800MHz Apple PowerBook G4 laptops or 45,998 2GHz AMD Athlon XP machines or (to use some rc5-56 numbers) nearly a half million Pentium Pro 200s.”
Wintel users, although sheep, are occasionally quite clever – so find a friend to do the math for you. I had an insane aunt who also whined to the BBB every time it rained. Bravo, Dell! Oh, and always remember: “Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics – you may win, but you’re still retarded.”
March 28th, 2004 at 4:07 am
lol… Nobody mentions DELL’s 25 percent return rate on laptops. What’s funny is that DELL has always sucked, and now they’re whining about sucking.
March 28th, 2004 at 4:09 am
Heh heh… just don’t use them for anything involving math
March 28th, 2004 at 3:14 pm
Tell me about it.
I used to sell IC’s to Dell. All they were interested in was the cheapest crap that would still function (i.e., mtbf = ‘tl the check clears)
-they couldn’t care less about innovation or reliability.
March 28th, 2004 at 6:15 pm
The Dual 3ghz machines coming down thew ways soon will shut up everyone else. Apple is going to take, maintain, and keep the speed lead. Intel is moribund as to a 64 bit processor and AMD is doing a good job at second place.
March 28th, 2004 at 9:49 pm
Its just so much “sour grapes” from that copy-cat Michael Dell….again !!
When will he learn that Windoze box makers must spend too many resources on figureing out how to keep the virus du jour from invading their machines to even think about raw speed !
Besides… Intel hasnt caught up to IBM in the 64 bit processor market, and Michael surely must feeling the heat by now….
At least AMD has a 64-bit chip….. maybe Michael should drag is sorry butt into the 21st century !!
March 28th, 2004 at 9:56 pm
What a moroon !!
Just like another WinDoze lemming equating price and quality….
But never mind the down time needed to clean out the latest virus / trojan…
Dont consider that as part of the price you pay…
From a price > productivity standpoint…. Macs are now, and always have been cheaper than WinDoze boxes….
But, obviously, you cant see that…
Oh…. is your anti-virus software up to date ???
Mine isnt….
I havent seen mine in over 5 years !!
LOL !!
March 28th, 2004 at 10:04 pm
Good point…
And why didnt Virginia Tech buy Dell machines for their cluster ??
Bottom line was…. Macs were cheaper than the Dells !!
Lots cheaper !!
Not only that, but the 1100 Macs turned out to be the third fastest Super Computer Cluster on the planet !!
Plenty of documentation to that effect all over the net… Look it up !!
March 29th, 2004 at 3:25 am
What downtime would that be? I have NEVER had a virus or a trojan that did any damage whatsoever to my pc’s. Matter of fact, in the 4 years I have run my pc’s after dumping my macs, I have never even gotten a virus or a trojan. Hmm…guess you are falling into the apple idiot club thinking that all pc’s get destroyed by virusus.
I used macs exclusively for many years. You are an absolute moron if you think that macs end up in any way shape or form cheaper than windows machines. I just bought this:
Dell pc with 3.3ghz 800, 1gig ram, 256m radeon 9800 pro, Sound Blaster Audigy® 2 Platinum sound card, 80 gig drive, cdr-w, dvd, cyberlink remote control, 19″ lcd montor
All that cost me a whopping 1085.00. To equal that system with a mac, and even hope to come close to the benchmarks that I get with this system STOCK, would cost me over 4 grand using a Mac.
So you are an absolute moronic idiots ass! You and the rest of your mac ass buddies that are so freaking stupid you can’t see that apple has its head in its ass and is losing way more customers than it is gaining. Losing me (and I still use macs, btw, just not like before) cost them 8 computers. I still have 2 that the kids use for some of their games. But I will never buy another mac until they can compete with pc’s in price and in quality. Oh, btw, my old ass very first pentium 2 pc is alive and running windows xp pro with NO problems. Every time apple comes out with a new os, (just about) you have to get a new computer cause they make it non compatible with old versions. Idiots..
Oh, and yet, there are many apple versions of virus software. The only difference, is that apple can’t run most of the scripts that virusus are created in. MOST pc users are smart enough to never allow them to run on their systems.
March 29th, 2004 at 3:34 am
And yet, I own 11 Dell’s and not one has ever failed. EVER. And the oldest is 4 years old. Matter of fact, I just checked, and it has been running and online for 4037 hours (that’s about 6 months.) You can’t say that about any mac ever. So yeah, if Dell sucks, apple wishes they were good enough to suck. I use macs as well, and NONE of them has ever been up for more than a week.
I do have a friend that I work with that has a dell that broke down. Twice. amazingly, Dell cared so little, that they had a tech at his house within 12 hours both times to fix the problem. Both happened to be simple hard drive failures. And the best part, was that they so hate their customers, that they extended his service contract both times to BEGIN his 1 year of service from the date they fixed his computer. NO CHARGE.
If my Dells are NOT reliable, then my Apples are worse than garbage.
March 29th, 2004 at 5:07 am
ummmm – p2p AND digital media
March 29th, 2004 at 7:22 am
Jeez, where to start??
Okay. The 3 (and in some studies 4 or higher) percentage ONLY COVERS HOW MANY COMPUTERS SOLD IN A SINGLE GIVEN QUARTER. Like another pointed out here, the sales numbers included computers being used for singularly mundane chores. IT’S NOT ALL INSTALLED END-USERS! UNDERSTAND THIS. Let’s see: over the past four months, I have spent over two grand, upgrading the RAm and processor on my Powermac (from a single G4/450 to a DUAL 1.3GHz G4) and also upgrading my professional software AND buying a few game titles (yes; there are games for macs — some darned good titles, too. But PCs rule for gaming). So, all this updating on an over four year old computer… doesn’t THAT count for something to the company whose software I just upgraded? you bet your ass it does. Also, what’s bigger: a 10% quarterly marketshare of 1989’s sales (PRE MAINSTREAM INTERNET)? Or 3% of today’s? Think about it.
And, the other thing is whoever thought that running free BSD on a PC and THINKING that that would be as good as using Mac OS X IS FUCKING DELUSIONAL! If THAT’s what you think there is to Mac OS X, then PLEASE embrace that erroneous belief fully and STAY AWAY from the Mac. We don’t want your in-bred retardation clouding up us Mac users’ gene pool!
March 29th, 2004 at 10:58 am
Well, I think you must be one lucky bastard, because in my network (thank goodness more mac than PC) ALL of the PC’s got infected more than once. I can tell you I loose days cleaning this up, and keep it up to date.
So, please, before you claim that Apple users are idiots, because they just tell you that we don’t have viruses (yet) on their systems, think again, and show some respect to these people.
You wanna buy a cheap PC, fine, just go ahead, it’s your money and your life.
And you say that MOST PC users are smart enough… well, I can tell you a few stories pal, you too could be astonished.
Of course Apple uses marketing strategies, and not always the products are good, but in my experience (14 years now, in big Mac environments and mixed environments), I still claim that Apple has better hardware and a better OS than you can find anywhere. But you have to pay a slightly bigger fee. But that’s just what we do, because we just cannot afford the downtime nor the weak OS support. A lot of success with your virus free PC’s…
March 29th, 2004 at 12:25 pm
I don’t really want to get into the trolling here but it is interesting to note that both Sony for the PS3 and Micro$oft for the XBox 2 have gone for IBM PPC chips with M$ apparently shipping developer kits including dual 2Ghz G5’s as the XBox will reportedly have dual PPC 970 derivatives in it .
Do you think they’d be looking for anything other than the most power available in these machines ?
March 29th, 2004 at 12:31 pm
Welcome to the world of Macintosh. I have a Power Mac 6100 that I bought in July of 1995!! I have now relegated it to email and WP. I have never had a hardware failure and I have only seen the bomb twice both times due to my plugging in scsi devices while the machine was running. So never say never about apple products. The loyalty their products have garnered over the years for reliability is earned.
March 29th, 2004 at 3:49 pm
Amen to that bro
March 29th, 2004 at 4:03 pm
Except for rebooting when ive installed certain software titles…. my Mac 8600 running OS 9.1 has been up for a year or more, and my PowerBook running OS 10.3 Panther has been up 24 / 7 for the last 6 months or so…
(due to the fact that I installed Panther about 6 months ago)
I think the powerbook will stay up and running indefinetely…and the 8600
while its only 7 years old might run forever !!
Oh…. how many 7 year old Dells are still up and running ??
and…. do you have your anti-virus software updated ??
I havent seen mine since SevenDust 666…and that was….uhhh 5 or 6 years ago ??
March 29th, 2004 at 4:30 pm
ouch…
Dude, you coulda fried the motherboard…Youre lucky you didnt !! both times !! LOL !! and its pretty rare (methinks) when you’ll find one on ebay to replace it !!
I made the same mistake on my old Quadra 605, only THAT motherboard wasnt so forgiving ! <*sniff*>
I finally retired both my 61s ( 6100/66 & 6100/60) because of Ram restrictions… but, both still have OS 9.1 on their trusty hard drives !!
A lot of smack has been said about Apple marketshare…. or lack thereof… but no one considers those of us who keep these Classic gems around, while being very productive too !!
I bet there are a helluva lot more old Macs surfing the internet and providing trouble-free service, than old PeeCees !!
March 29th, 2004 at 8:02 pm
most Mac users are to ignorant and blinded by delusions of self-grandeur……and obviously you’re too inexperienced to realize there are more than virii to worry about….
An OS 10.3 security flaw?
p2pnet.net, Canada – 22 Mar 2004
… OS X is “a version of Unix, with an Apple personality on top … Because the Unix code has … public for so long, hackers are well positioned to exploit its weaknesses …
right off this site too, educate yourself before opening your moronic mouth.
————————-
more?
DDoS Vulnerability
InternetNews.com, United States – 2 Mar 2004
iDEFENSE originally discovered the exploit Jan … A representative from Apple told internetnews.com the company was … today, is based on a version of UNIX created by …
How Secure Is OS X?
NewsFactor Network – 22 Mar 2004
… a version of Unix, with an Apple personality on … vulnerabilities for OS X. Because the Unix code has … long, hackers are well positioned to exploit its weaknesses …
March 29th, 2004 at 8:05 pm
as is true with every computer, from my sparc to my PC, experienced and thoroughness can prevent problems…although that can be universally applied, which you’ll learn more about when you grow up LOL
March 29th, 2004 at 8:06 pm
where does it say hardware?!?!?!
March 29th, 2004 at 8:10 pm
LOL, typical deluded and raving Mac user, can’t see beyond their own ego and need for an identity.
Check around re Apples quality and OSX, fact one of the previous post in this story points out some problems to the impenetrable Mac.
March 29th, 2004 at 8:11 pm
>LOL, typical deluded and raving Mac user, can’t see beyond their own >ego and need for an identity.
tru, tru….:)
March 29th, 2004 at 8:14 pm
I think that may have more to do with chipzillas problems than quality.
March 30th, 2004 at 6:20 am
Ten years ago IBM predicted that the X86 CISC cpu would run out of gas due to
the required decoder on the front end for the micro-instructions. I think
that’s now happening and Dell knows it. The Apple’s speed claims were based on
independent testing done with todays compilers and code. We expect that future
IBM 97X cpu code can be more highly optimized than x86 code. In those areas
Apple speed claims should be correct.
March 30th, 2004 at 5:13 pm
I’m not saying that the Mac platform is perfect, but for someone to equate Free BSD on the same level as Mac OS X is DELUSIONAL. PERIOD. You go ahead and install Free BSD on yer PeeCee and tell me it’s the same as Mac OS X. Go ahead; try to convince the world of this.
As for the point of this story (and I actually neglected to comment on it, originally), I thought that it was dumb of Jobs to say such things as “we’ve caught up with the PC — and passed them”. And the “world’s first 64 bit desktop” isn’t worth the grief, either. Yes, there were no 64 bit computers available TO THE MASSES until the G5 Powermac came out (try going to best Buy and purchasing a 64 bit system). Nor are there EVEN STILL no POPULAR x86 platform running on 64 bit hardware. Windows64 is a beta and can only run on AMD and Intel is nowhere in deploying a 64 bit FOR THE DESKTOP. What’s interesting however, is that Intel is RETREATING from the MHz war because THEY KNOW it doesn’t matter and that 64 bit systems run efficiently at lower MHz, right? RIGHT.
As for the speed of the G5, various independent tests have shown it to be faster and slower than x86. Benchmarking is a dark art, and all the manufacturers are going to skew their tests, right? RIGHT. The bottom line is that the G5 processor is FAST, Apple’s Powermac architecture is ADVANCED, and Mac OS X — not just Free BSD alone — is an awesome computing environment. All that totals up to an excellent, efficient and “uncumbersome” computing experience.
I’ve come across many “switchers” both online and personally who were previous hardcore PC builders and tweakers. Why did they switch?? Because, based on their insights gained from dealing with the guts of the x86 platform, they had the insight to assess the Mac platform, accurately. What they found they liked and they moved. That won’t happen in every case, and if you dig the x86 platform, more power to ya. But there’s more to the mac platform than “running Free BSD on your PC”. That’s one comment that I HAD TO respond to. Like PUUULEEZE!
BTW, check out Anandtech’s life with a Mac for a month. His verdict? He really likes it, he’s keeping the dual 2GHz G5 Powermac and will be maintaining the Anandtech website with it (HORRORS!) AND will also be starting a Mac forum AT THE SITE! BLASPHEMY!!!
Odd how he simply didn’t install Free BSD on his PC… /SARCASM
April 1st, 2004 at 4:20 am
we windoze!!! hehehehhe, mac idiots
April 19th, 2004 at 6:49 am
Listen to me and listen well,
You’re all stupid.
This artical, as well as ALL of its replys are pointless.
First: This has nothing to do with P2P, so if anyone really has an argument about this they can go to a chat room and cry like a little girl (I mean no offence to little girls) about the subject.
Second: I personally use all (major) OS’s and I beleve that they are ALL equal in their own way. It’s all based on preference and what you want to do. If you like a certian type of computer or OS use it, don’t bitch about what other people prefer. Becides, most people who complain about anoth OS/Brand have (A) never used it before and have no Idea what their talking about, (B) Used it once or twice at a stupid friends house and they were to ignorant or lazy to learn somthing new, or (C) the used it at a school or library and were too stupid to understand that they use out of date machines with heavy security on them.
Third: All companies hype their products (It’s called advertizement morons), and all computer companies are all run by heartless CEO’s who just want money. So going back and forth whinning about what one company said or did is quite stupid.
Fourth: Stop pretending that because you use a certian OS/Computer that the company who makes it is a god and everyone else is the devil (I Mean non offence to any religion/cult that believes that any OS/Company actually is the devil). If you really want somthing to cry about build you own computer and program your own OS.
If Anyone wants to whine or cry (or send me a premade virus because you can’t make one yoursel) because of what I said they can contact me at hellmaster_draco@hotmail.com, because I’m probably not going to come bact to this website to listen to idiots whine.
– HellMaster Draco -
June 10th, 2004 at 8:18 pm
First of all, What kind of $hit a$$ network are you running that has no protection or updating procedure. If you are that ignorant then you deserve to be infected and running around cleaning up after viruses.
“But you have to pay a slightly bigger fee.” 4 times the cost is not a slightly bigger fee.
Obviously the market stategies are as bad as the MACs seeing how their market share is 2.1% the last I checked.
14 years in the big MAC and mixed environment, and you are still running around cleaning and patching by hand, proves the MAC users are idiots theory.
Weak OS support huh? Didn’t Apple just release a patch that didn’t patch anything, then they denied it, then released another patch. That’s pretty damn weak.
After 14 years, boy what a waste of a career if that is all you have gained.
June 10th, 2004 at 8:47 pm
It astounds me, the the people here trying to pose as “ex” mac users. Obviously, those of us who have used a REAL macintosh(as opposed to the kind you make up in your ignorant, never-actually-have-touched-a-macintosh-or-seen-it-work rants) have never had a reason to switch to the windows platform. (besides the unfortunate fact that software developers continue to sell out to the ever dominant microshaft) Being a tech/developer for 11 years, working at everything from Big universities in mixed PC/MAC environments to corporations running the latest and shittiest windows 2003 server platforms on dell and compaq hardware….I have no doubt in my mind that MACINTOSH is a superior computer.
I’ve seen windows machines crash, reboot, freeze up, fatal exception, blue screen, and fail in inumerable ways for 11 years. The ratio of PC failures to macintosh failures is FAR, FAR greater on any given day, on any given scale. I’ve seen a couple of macintosh bomb screens in my life in all the OS’s from 7 to 9.1. I’ve seen 4 or 5 bombs, tops. One of them was because I made the mistake of plugging in a scsi device while the machine was still on. Compare that to the literally hundreds of thousands of failures on the wintel platform I’ve witnessed. People who think that even the oldest mac OS could not hold up to a windows PC of today have far too little experience running both platforms simultaneously. Macintosh holds up, stability wise and performance wise to a PC, on any given day. I would bet money that a 6100 running system 7.5 could run a webserver without crashing longer than a PC of today could.
I am not saying that PC’s dont have the capability of being great. I’m not trying to say that PC users are idiots. I’m simply saying that when it comes to comparing the Operating systems, windows versus MacOS(any flavor), anyone who thinks that windows is a “better” OS is devoid of any intelligence.
Running Linux or an alternative, stable OS on a PC is the only thing that makes a PC comparable to the macintosh platform. Just my two cents. Trying to argue that wintel machines are better than Macs is akin to saying that car accidents are better than safe driving.
June 10th, 2004 at 10:19 pm
I have never seen Apple actually tell the truth in their ads about how powerful their machines are. If you take the fastest mac vrs. the fastest pc at just about any point in history (or the future
) I’ve found pcs are somewhere between 25 to 100 % faster than macs. PC’s even kick macs ass in premier and stuff like that. How can macintosh even try to claim they’re faster than PCs? The only reason I would ever use a mac was if I wanted to do graphic art……wait..nevermind…I’d like to have at least 2 mouse buttons. I have never found a single area where macs are better than pcs except, yes, there are fewer viruses out there that affect macs. Im afraid that’s just because everyone USES pcs and anyone writing a virus wouldn’t bother writing something for a mac…he’d probably figure they had it bad enough off already.
June 14th, 2004 at 5:22 pm
Hey hey hey….
The only reason a mac computer comes with good hardware is because they don’t let anyone else produce their drivers and you’ve gotto stick with what they create.
also i’ve seen an apple crach and what a big joke .. the screen gets all flashy and animated…. and displays a message saying “Your mac has crashed… please restart….” I mean What the ****…. why in any world would a computer shows a crach message…. Its crashed for goodness sake….. in a pc… atleast you know the PC has tried hard to overcome it…. it don’t show stupid messages….