Bell Sympatico P2P Black List
p2pnet news | Freedom:- Comcast in the US of A is currently, and rightly, getting it in the neck for meddling with file sharing.
Net neutrality? What’s that?
Throwing up its metaphorical hands in horror, it claims it would never dream of doing such a thing —- it’s just kinda, well, you know, delaying things a teensy bit.
Nothing to get upset about.
Members of the SavetheInternet.com Coalition and top Net scholars don’t agree, however. And to make their position unmistakably clear, they’ve filed a class action demanding the US Federal Communications Commission fine Comcast $195,000 for every affected subscriber
“Nobody gave Comcast the right to be an Internet gatekeeper,” says Marvin Ammori, general counsel of Free Press and co-author of the complaint. “And there is nothing reasonable about telling users which Internet services they can and can’t use.”
But Comcast isn’t the only villain in the piece, and the US isn’t the only country where The Biggies have decided they can do whatever they want and get away with it, a la the movie and music cartels.
In the States, users have people trying to look after their rights and interests, but there’s no one doing that in Canada.
If you’re signed on with Bell-Sympatico and you’ve been unsuccessfully trying to coax a little more speed out of your suddenly sluggish computer; or, if you’ve been calling Bell-Sympatico support only to be told it’s not them, it’s you —- it isn’t you, says Ottawa Gal. Because here, “Bell-Sympatico is now following the Rogers lead,” she states. “It’s traffic shaping and throttling.”
Bell-Sympatico says it’s now taking action against ‘network abusers’ and performing ‘Traffic Management during periods of peak usage’, she says, but since Bell-Sympatico “didn’t or won’t” explained in detail why, how, and exactly who is affected, here it is from Ottawa Gal >>>
Following the (Rogers) leader
For the past while Sympatico users have been complaining they were being throttled to 30kB/s on torrents. But, all that’s been said is: it’s the user’s problem or not enough seeders.But a couple of days ago it came to light what’s been happening. Sympatico is now throttling (‘traffic management’) and also degrading users’ speed profiles for anyone they deem ‘network abusers’ in undisclosed areas, and any time of the day they deem fit to throttle.
Bell-Sympatico is now doing two things: following the Rogers lead: Traffic shaping/throttling and degrading users speed profiles. A brief description of what’s going on is described below along with the letters being sent to ‘Network Abusers’.
Traffic shaping/throttling (‘Traffic Management during periods of peak usage’)
Per the Bell-Sympatico User Forum:
‘Only P2P is being throttled, and only during peak times, so you can continue to download whatever content you want to, so long as it’s not during peak times.’
‘As for when peak times are, Bell is closely monitoring traffic across its entire network and managing that traffic as required. The timeframes involved change due to constantly changing customer behaviour.’
The degrading of users speed profile per the Bell Sympatico User Forum:
‘I never heard of a invisible cap for bandwidth I can assure you that if your service is unlimited it is even if you reach 200gb.’
The Abuse Letter* (going out to ‘Network Abusers’):
*This is from a fellow Bell user on an unlimited contract.
Important notification about your Sympatico Internet service from Bell
Our records indicate that over the past months, there has been sustained excessive bandwidth usage on your Sympatico account. In fact, the monthly usage on your account is 5000% higher than the usage of an average Bell residential customer. Please note that less than 1% of our residential customers fall into this category.
Your level of consumption is in violation of our Service Agreement and Acceptable Use Policy. In particular, it breaches your agreement not to use the service in a manner that restricts or inhibits other Bell customers from using and enjoying the Internet and your agreement not to create an unusually large burden on our network. As a residential Internet service provider. Bell Sympatico has a responsibility to deliver high quality Internet service to all of our customers. In the event that individual customers consume excessive amounts of bandwidth, our ability to deliver on this commitment can be affected.
As a result, and in accordance with your Service Agreement, your Internet service will be restricted during peak hours of network activity for the next 30 days. This means that you may notice a decrease in the speed at which you can upload and download from the Internet during peak hours. It is important for you to reduce your usage level to an acceptable range during this time. If you fail to comply, your service will be terminated in accordance with the time frame set out in a subsequent termination notice to you.
To help you monitor your Internet usage, please log in to My Internet at bell.ca/internetusage to access our bandwidth tracker. To learn more about bandwidth intensive applications such as peer-to-peer file sharing or running servers and for tips or information on how you can manage your Internet usage, please visit bell.ca/bandwidthFAQ. Should you have any other questions regarding this notice, please call 1-866-424-0182. A copy of the Service Agreement and Acceptable Use Policy can be found at agreements.sympatico.ca.
Your cooperation in this matter is appreciated. Thank you and we look forward to your immediate action.
The Caps on Unlimited accounts (The first of many kickers):
This is a paid for unlimited account to which the invisible cap that got these people an abuse letter and labelled ‘network abusers’ is undisclosed. People have to guess at which point they’ll get this letter. The only thing known to date is the abusers will be throttled during peak time usage and their DSL profile changed to 512-downstream/512-upstream.
If we review Sympatico’s Acceptable Use Policy it only states:
‘You are prohibited from using the Service for activities that include, but are not limited to’:
“Restricting or inhibiting any other user from using or enjoying the Internet, impairing the operations or efficiency of the Service or creating an unusually large burden on our networks, or otherwise generating levels of Internet traffic sufficient to impede other users’ ability to transmit or receive information.’
-Nowhere does it state they throttle or use caps or will impose such on the user if they use P2P.
-Nowhere does it say what the magic number is before the user gets labelled a ‘Network Abuser’
-Nowhere does it state that using the paid for unlimited account service will get you labelled a ‘Network Abuser’. After all that’s why people get the unlimited account, or those on the limited account pay the extra 25$/month to be on unlimited. But now if you pay to be on unlimited, you are a ‘Network Abuser’.
Can the user policy be more vague?
Now let’s examine the Service Agreement.
(6 ii) ‘depending on the particular Service offering available to and selected by you: (A) unlimited bandwidth usage; or (B) bandwidth usage with a limit on the combined download (from the Internet to you) and upload (from you to the Internet) bandwidth activity. In the case of (B), this limit will be identified to you prior to placing an order with Your Service Provider or made available to you by Your Service Provider from time to time. An additional charge will apply for bandwidth activity that exceeds this limit which will be identified to you prior to or upon placing an order with Your Service Provider or will be made available to you by Your Service Provider from time to time. It is your responsibility to monitor and manage your monthly download and upload bandwidth activity.’
This clearly states they have two types of accounts —- Unlimited and Limited. But nowhere does it state that unlimited has an invisible cap.
It also states limits will be identified to you. But sadly, it’s not. Its states it’s your responsibility to monitor and manage your monthly bandwidth activity.
But how does one manage and monitor an invisible magic number? Does the user buy a used magic hat? Crystal ball? Cast level 9 show magic number? The limit is an unknown magic and invisible number. Rumor has it that the unlimited magic number is 200-gigs, But Bell-Sympatico won’t disclose this fictional magic number to anyone. Bell-Sympatico prefers it kept a secret.
Some people who are calling in to cancel their service are now being told there’s a $100 early termination fee. However, if we look at part 10 of the Service Agreement, we find:
(10) ‘Your Service Provider will notify you of any material amendment to this Service Agreement or of any material change to the Service in advance by posting notice of such change at www.agreements.sympatico.ca, by sending you notice via email to your Sympatico parent email address or to another email address provided by you to Your Service Provider (in which case it is your responsibility to ensure that such email address remains current at all times) or by using any other notice method that will likely come to your attention.’
But ……….
- NO ONE has been given ANY notice except to be labelled a ‘Network Abuser’ by letter. Then be dropped in speed to 512/512.
- NO ONE has been contacted to reflect Bell-Sympatico’s new bandwidth policies and P2P throttling.
This is in effect against Bell-Sympatico’s OWN service agreement.
This new change with invisible caps, traffic shaping and throttling of P2P is a big change, and a material change in service.
If we examine the rest of part 10 we see this:
‘Nothing in this Service Agreement shall be construed as obligating you to accept receipt of the Service after any change is made to the Service or this Service Agreement; however, to the extent permitted by applicable law, your sole remedy in the event that you do not wish to accept such change shall be cancellation of the Service (and termination of this Service Agreement) including the payment of any Termination Charges or other charges that may apply.’
It basically says if you don’t like the changes in policy, you can leave and you’ll have to pay the early termination fee.
Well, I have news for them.
They contacted NO ONE, so NO ONE can say, ‘hey there’s been a change’. It’s a completely hidden amendment to both the service policy and bandwidth policy that directly affects all users, and labels users as ‘Network Abusers’.
Let’s wrap up part 10 of the service agreement.
‘You agree that you cannot change this Service Agreement and that no customer service representative or sales representative of Your Service Provider is authorized to vary the terms of this Service Agreement in any way, verbally or in writing, unless specifically approved in writing by Your Service Provider.’
Since no Bell-Sympatico Agent, Customer Service, or Sales Rep is authorised to vary the terms of this policy in any way, Bell-Sympatico is supposed to provide these big changes to you in writing.
More news for Bell-Sympatico; NO ONE has received anything in writing about all the above changes.
Now, let’s jump back to part 4 of the service agreement, paragraph 3, we see the following:
‘If you cancel the Service prior to the end of the Initial Service Period as a result of a material change in the Service, the Termination Charge will be waived by Your Service Provider. For greater certainty, changes to Service Fees are not a material change to the Service. If you cancel your Service, the termination will be effected thirty (30) days from the date of your notice of cancellation to Your Service Provider’
So in effect, anyone wishing to cancel should do so with the above arguments since this is a very big change and a material change and be charged NO termination fee.
At most, there can be a 30-day notice required at regular cost. This should be argued not with support but with the Bell Executive Office of Customer Relations at: 1-866-317-3382. Be sure to get a confirmation number.
With all the TV commercials of Bell-Sympatico being consistently fast, this can now be argued to the Canadian Marketing Association, and complaint made for false advertising (if you bought it due to this), since it is no longer ‘consistently fast’ with the new changes. Its consistently throttled, or capped and throttled if you are a ‘Network Abuser’.
So you think that’s it right? End of the story? Big deal?
Nope.
You thought the above were kickers, right? Nope.
The best is yet to come.
With all of the above happening, Bell-Canada approached DSL whole-sellers/re-sellers.
A few Alternate 3rd party ISP’s (ie, the competition) have been selling log-in only accounts for between $10-$20. With this type of DSL account people could purchase The Bell Sympatico service with 60-gig limit for about $50, then buy the login-only account that is either premium limited (100-gig limit) or login only unlimited over non-premium paths.
The competitors (which people usually dumped Bell-Sympatico for) are now told they can no longer sell unlimited login accounts to prevent an exodus of users, or an exodus of users saying no to bells surcharge of $25 for unlimited, for $10 unlimited given by the completion.
Bell put a swift end to the competition who were still making a buck on the login only accounts.
Not only this, but those who’ve made the black list (ie, those labelled ‘Network Abusers’) and who get their service cut off for what they bought and paid for will no longer be able to get DSL through the 3rd party competition.
Per the owner of a small ISP, Teksavvy, Bell-Sympatico will remove the user from their Data base as eligible for DSL service. Thus the competition can’t give them DSL service since they don’t exist.
In addition, Bell won’t activate the card or port required on their equipment to allow the competition to service those labelled as ‘Network Abusers’.
So what we have here is complete control over the competition in whom they can service, as Bell-Sympatico see’s fit.
Seems like this should be against the competition act doesn’t it? However, Bell has three out of the five board members sitting on the Competition Policy Review Panel whose core mandate is, “review two key pieces of Canadian legislation, the Competition Act and the Investment Canada Act, including the treatment of state-owned enterprises and the possibility of a national security review clause.’
This also builds on top of this story: Big Brother Sympatico.
As for the ‘national security’ review, allow me to direct you to Emily of the State.
So where’s the justice for those labelled by Bell-Sympatico as ‘Network Abusers’?
What kind of competitive country removes the competition from services for those labelled ‘Network Abusers’?
Had enough yet? Read on.
If you’re planning to go to Bell-Sympatico, or are already a Bell-Sympatico user, the following applies to you:
1.Bell is throttling: this is admitted in their own forum
2.Bell acknowledges it’s targeting specific programs and it didn’t specify the whole list, but only a partial list which may change as it deems fit, “as required”.
3.Bell stated unlimited accounts will remain so, as long as they’re within the “acceptable range”.
4.No one to date knows what this “acceptable range” is. We have to guess.
5.Bell stated this is in accordance with the “Acceptable Use Policy”.
6.The “Acceptable Use Policy” doesn’t state anything other than being completely open-ended to change at Bell’s discretion as it sees fit to enforce upon you, at any time it wants.
7.None of Bell’s policies tell you’ ‘unlimited’ equals 200-gigs MAX or you’re labelled a ‘Network Abuser’.
8.By Bell’s own statements, it’s suffering from internal network problems and is targeting areas/people where this occurs, within any time frameit deems fit, with no regard to anyone (ie,. ‘creating an unusually large burden on our networks’) .Hence, it’s over-subscribed what it can actually handle.
9.So in other words, you’re at Bell”s mercy since the areas aren’t defined, time-frame isn’t defined, programs/protocols/ports aren’t defined, B/W limits aren’t defined, what speed you will be dropped to isn’t defined,
10.Bell says only P2P being throttled, however some people are complaining it affects their internet experience as a whole, regardless of P2P.
11.Bell states it’s not limiting the amount a person can download. However, by lowering speed to 512/512 for ‘Network Abusers’, for those on unlimited and throttling the rest of the users during peak times (which aren’t defined), speed is reduced. So how much you can download? Thus, by their own admission, they’re in fact affecting how much you can download, as well as when and how.
12.Bell stated you’re on your own to determine when peak time congestion is, in case you’re wonder why things slow down to 30KB/s.
13.Even if you pay the extra $25/month for unlimited, you will/can get this throttle at any time of the day (to 30-KB/s) they deem fit to impose it and you will be labelled a ‘network Abuser’ if you reach the invisible magic b/w limit.
14.Those who received the VERY vague letters were given no time frame as to when to slow down on the downloads/uploads,
15.Those who received the VERY vague letters were given no b/w limit to stay below,
16.Those who received the VERY vague letters were not told they’d be degraded to a 512/512 profile.
17.All those affected should be allowed to terminate their contracts without penalty fee’s since this is a VERY big change in Bandwidth policy without notice or regard to the customer and with no time-frame and b/w limit given.
18.It has been made public knowledge that Bell is forcing other DSL whole-sellers or re-sellers to get rid of the unlimited login. This is full control over competition.
19.It has been made public knowledge that those cut off from bell DSL for any of the above reasons will be removed from their Dbase and you won’t be able to get service from the other DSL competition going through their network (Bell won’t activate the port/card). This is full control over competition.
20.It hasn’t been confirmed, but the magic invisible limit on unlimited is 200-gigs (explain that one to your kids).
21.If you were sold the promise of unlimited consistently fast internet, you need to call the Bell Executive Office of Customer Relations if you see 30KB/s because Bell reps won’t acknowledge the whole truth to you and will probably tell you the problem is your broken PC or router. You were only sold a broken promise.
22.Be aware of the Black list and what happens if you make this black list.
We all know what’s going to come next, encryption throttling (like Rogers).
Buyer beware.
[Ottawa Gal is a long-time p2pnet reader and comment poster who'd rather remain anonymous. She says she works in the University, likes her cat, reality TV, and Doctor McDreamy. Her favourite web sites are the Michael Geist blog and p2pnet.net. "Privacy on the net is also important to me," she says. "I need a tinfoil hat 
" She's also the mother of, "two darling little girls who tore down my ceiling fan three days ago thinking it would be fun to hang from it." So she advises parents to, "never have an armchair around from which little ones can reach fans". (No one was hurt 
) ]
Stay tuned.
References:
http://www.supportcommunity.sympatico.ca/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=10138051&returnExpertiseCode
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19066934-Sympatico-throttling-Bit-Torrents-now
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19361852-Straight-from-the-horses-mouth-admission-of-throttling
http://www.p2pnet.net/story/4993
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19346010-tsi-unlimited-logins
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19287368-new-invisible-bell-caps-affect-bell-wholesellers
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19368095-I-always-have-to-prove-that-Im-innocent
http://www.supportcommunity.sympatico.ca/pe/action/forums/displaysinglethread?rootPostID=10138195&returnExpertiseCode
http://www.supportcommunity.sympatico.ca/pe/action/forums/displaysinglethread?rootPostID=10138195&returnExpertiseCode
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19320467-Did-bell-cut-anyone-else-off-Wednesday-at-500pm
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19282998-Who-received-theexcessive-bandwith-usageSympatico-letter
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19280237-
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19277772-Sympatico-is-threatening-me
http://www.freepress.net/press/release.php?id=297
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Comcast-Responds-To-Traffic-Shaping-Accusations-86816
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/87077
Also See:
getting it in the neck – Leave file sharing alone, Comcast told, November 1, 2007
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November 3rd, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Bell spends considerable amount of money getting its 2 beavers to proclaim to the word that unlike cable, Sympatico isn’t affected by what your neighbours do. But here, Sympatico is sending letters stating that an “abuser” will affect the performance for his neighbours.
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:28 pm
JF Mezei Says:
November 3rd, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Bell spends considerable amount of money getting its 2 beavers to proclaim to the word that unlike cable, Sympatico isnât affected by what your neighbours do. But here, Sympatico is sending letters stating that an âabuserâ will affect the performance for his neighbours.
==================================
Agreed. Bell commercials state they are “consistantly” fast, and how they are not like cable where the neighbours affect your internet. Maybe they are refering to cable back in the 90′s!
But definately one (a formal complaint) to bring before the Canadian Marketing Association http://www.the-cma.org/ and Industry Canada (competition act).
MmMmMm beaver
November 3rd, 2007 at 2:34 pm
I hate those goddamn beavers!!!!
November 3rd, 2007 at 3:14 pm
The beavers really got to Bell, I didn’t even know they were blacklisting people now. This really can’t be legal.
November 3rd, 2007 at 5:28 pm
anyway to get around this? All competing ISP’s do this in my area.
November 3rd, 2007 at 6:15 pm
teksavvy.com, velcom (or is it velcrom?) or videotron (but thats a 100-gig limit)
November 3rd, 2007 at 6:33 pm
Aha, a nice ‘Unlimited’ discussion.
Over here it’s called FUP ( Fair Use Policy ). Or in other words:
[quote]We will’s kick your ass when you go over our download limit, but we refuse to tell you what that limit is. So please, use as little as possible bandwidth so we can add another few people to your nod, who we lure in with ‘no limit’, and state fup in the small print.[/quote]
Took me month’s finding out what that FUP was of my old ISP ( and half a dozen of call’s with the typical scar tactics ). Yet, when asking what that FUP was, no answer. And when they can’t get you on your phone, they’ll use your private number.
Always the same with any ISP. Overselling ( or promising more then they know they can keep ), and then using dirty tactics to get ride of the customers they don’t want. Every ISP want’s one type of customer. Those that use only a few meg’s a month, but pay full price. And using term’s as ‘unlimited’, ‘fup’, ‘no limit’ to lure people in.
November 4th, 2007 at 7:55 am
Shaw does this too.
November 4th, 2007 at 9:14 am
We are all in trouble countrywide.
November 4th, 2007 at 10:32 am
Videotron announced earlier that their unlimited was not unlimited anymore….
I signed for a full year like 1 month before they did this, bastards.
They are getting sued and when i called them….all i had to do was to switched to a commercial plan…
Same thing but an extra 5$ per month and unlimited.
Still signed on for that class action.
November 4th, 2007 at 10:42 am
Slug Says:
Still signed on for that class action.
See thats what Quebecers can do. But those outside Quebec can’t, since its subsidized by Quebec.
However. Videotron GAVE 30+ days notice. It was even stated on your Videotron Bill.
They at least did it the RIGHT way to give the people a choice, and honestly… 5$… pffft. This is very different from Sympatico charging 25$ and still having an invisible limit that will label you a “Network Abuser” by letter! Your case is different since you only signed up 30-days prior to the change.. but still, only 5$, compared to what the other is doing. So you still made the right choice. Good for you.
Many MANY people out of their 2-million +/- users are still unaware of what Bell is pulling here.
Its a very different scenario.
November 5th, 2007 at 3:34 am
The case against Videotron would be thrown out here in the states, since the primary complaint, failure to warn, doesn’t apply if the Reader’s Write above me is speaking truth.
However, Ron White’s famous saying can be applied against Comcast and Bell, “Can’t fix stupid”, and deserve to lose every penny that they will get milked for.
November 5th, 2007 at 8:25 pm
I wonder how they will ban a user. I hope not by phone or address. There are tons of people renting places and if any of them happen to be one of these abusers.. oh man.. bad news for the owner, bad news for the new tenants. Surely, this can’t be legal..
November 5th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
can’t comment on the specifics of brother bell to the north. but the us bells (vz, att, q) believe that the internet starts at the local LATA’s internet edge router port that connects to their local broadband network . from that port back is just access, atm, frame, plt, dsl, and fttp…that’s all theirs and they’ll do what ever the hell they want; only tempered by the mass market and demands. net neutrality only applies to “legal’ activity. sorry, it’s only going to get worse for joe downloader, as piracy is seen as competition to the bell’s brand of vod. good time to invest in that stock worthy of the pensions of widows and orphans.
he with the most bucket trucks wins!!!
Hey Sanji, Why fix stupid, when it entrenches the status quo? It’s just business my friend.
November 5th, 2007 at 11:30 pm
File a complaint with the Competition Bureau (they have an online complaint form) that this is misleading advertising, and then start filing claims in Small Claims court against Bell. Cost them a fortune and if the newspapers get hold of it, it will cost them ohhh so much more!!!
November 6th, 2007 at 5:08 am
What “bellhead” said is kind of accurate. Bell will remove you from their Dbase as eligable for dsl and also not activate you in their Central Office or the Dslam. Reference of the little guy being strong-armed:
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Bell-Sympaticos-War-On-Network-Abusers-89140
In response to CDB:
Canada has no regulatory body for Inet. Only thing someone can do is file a complaint about their advertizing and maybe bring it to industry Canada under the competition act or bring it to court.
November 21st, 2007 at 10:39 am
We should be demanding action from the government. This is a case of the consumer vs. a large corporation. The internet is now the communication tool of choice for many and this is akin to 20 years ago bell telling you that you are calling a certain number too much and you now cant call them anymore.
I am on one of the old grandfathered accounts which has unlimited (supposedly) and find that the bandwidth sometimes drops to 20kb as early at 4:00pm. This is ridiculous to limit downloads for almost 12 hours per day.
November 25th, 2007 at 11:55 pm
Speak to a lawyer or start a class action, otherwise talk with your feet and wallet.
December 14th, 2007 at 9:11 am
I get a real kick out of these people complaining that after 200 GIGABYTES their internet slows down. These are not people using the internet for their own use, they are giving it free to everyone else out there because “hey it doesn’t cost them anything”. It is not possible to personally consume 200GB of information on a regular basis. These are horders, collecters of data for no purpose. Of course they are also the same people that say “don’t over subscribe the network”, well you realize what that means right? It means as more and more people fill their face at the trough unrestricted and unthrottled, the alternative option to keep things running is to increase costs to more accurately reflect the new cost of doing business. We can thank all these “freedom fighters” when our Internet costs us $200+/month.
December 18th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
moron said:
“I get a real kick out of these people complaining that after 200 GIGABYTES their internet slows down. These are not people using the internet for their own use,”
Well duh when an ISP says its unlimited, ITS UNLIMITED. They need to be sued.
If teksavvy can supply a UNLIMITED login for 10$/month this says something about the actual cost of B/W.
Sheeez you must be a bell shill who works the forums.
December 22nd, 2007 at 7:49 pm
same thing started in the UK with the cable companies, pay for a 20mb line and the ‘Fair usage cap’ is the same amount downloaded as if you’re using a 4mb line (usually 7-12pm every night)
December 23rd, 2007 at 10:02 pm
I’m really glad I had a choice in cable internet where I live. I’m not stuck with comcast.
December 24th, 2007 at 10:24 am
Im having an issue with the amount that bell says im using. The monitors I have setup on the machines are saying half of what they are, how can I prove that Im not using that much? Anyone help?
December 31st, 2007 at 11:48 pm
“Always the same with any ISP. Overselling ( or promising more then they know they can keep ), and then using dirty tactics to get ride of the customers they donât want. Every ISP wantâs one type of customer. Those that use only a few megâs a month, but pay full price. And using termâs as âunlimitedâ, âfupâ, âno limitâ to lure people in.”
Same principle works with rental companies. They don’t care who they sell what to. If you’ve made a reservation, they know they have you by the balls because you need a car and they’re the only ones who will give it to you. And if they’re sold out, chances are most other companies are too. The only time this happens is generally moving day (vans) and long weekends (sub compact, mid size and luxury/sport).
“I wonder how they will ban a user. I hope not by phone or address. There are tons of people renting places and if any of them happen to be one of these abusers.. oh man.. bad news for the owner, bad news for the new tenants. Surely, this canât be legal..”
The Aliant side of the Bell conglomerant has blacklisted me for something that is mostly not my fault. I’d say 25% me and 75% them. I’m black listed for 7 years and must give them a 750 dollar deposit before I can have wireless service with them again. Too bad Rogers signed me up on the spot. Competition is good.
January 3rd, 2008 at 9:05 am
For pity sake mate, my entire hard drive is just a little over 200gb. Anyone who is sucking up that kind of bandwidth should subscribe to a higher service. Bell is only throttling because people are ripping them off by using residental services for cooperate use. 200gb is sufficient in my eyes. You go to an all you can eat buffet and you expect that you can pay once and eat there for a year ? Give me a break, of course there going to draw the line somewhere.
January 3rd, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Since end of Oct 2007, Bell has not only throttle limit my P2P sharing but also my VOIP which I have with another company. I checked out my bandwidth usage with Bell and it has never gone over 100 GB/ month so I don’t think they are going after just the bandwidth abusers. I got rid of my Bell land line over a year now because my daughter ran up $200 a month long distance charges to the U.S. and Bell even at that time was cheesy with their long distance plans to the U.S. so I finally gave up and got rid of the land line. Now if I sign up with a third party ISP DSL provider I need to pay Bell $10 a month to use their line because I have a dry DSL loop. I’ve been a faithful Bell Sympatico customer for over 5 years now but with these underhanded practices by Bell I have no choice but to leave them and I will surely never come back!
January 9th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Sounds like one of my favourite scams …. All you can eat soup and sandwich buffet for 9.95, and after you are done your first sandwich, and ask for another, they say” Ahhh…. but you’ve already had 1 sandwich.. and thats “all you can eat” please leave our restaurant… after you tip us $100 more dollars !!!
My all you can eat deli made $ 5,000 that day….. never had a customer after that, so I closed my deli, moved to Saskatchewan, and purchased 2 – 500 gig hard drives, Signed up for high speed max… Pay 110 a month for all the TV and Internet I want !! 5,500 kb/sec dl and 550ul …. thats 24 / 7 …..And I dont even affect my neighbors !!
I hope you guys out east get all the internet you want ( trust me bandwidth is cheeeeeeap) averaging in power consumption of 50 cents to send those little signals through fibre wire all month!! It all has to do with raises and Larger salaries for the C.E.O’s
SASK TEL RULEZ !!!!
January 19th, 2008 at 7:02 am
reading this, i got sooooo frustrated with people saying “i personally don’t use that much, you guys are greedy, your stealing the internets from me” sound like you subscribe to “ted’s tubes” theory.
-see link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ir_mKso_qc&feature=related
this is a discussion about false advertising and unfair treatment of customers. the companies discussed are well know as abusive isp’s and don’t need to be defended.
“For pity sake mate, my entire hard drive is just a little over 200gb” oh, ya i see how that should make me want to let a company illegally bully me around. your right, because this doesn’t affect you i should just roll over and take it… can’t wait till they start screwing you and you don’t even notice.
but…
I LIVE IN SASKATCHEWAN!
i use sasktel, one of the best isp’s IN THE WORLD. we were among the very, very first to have dsl. sasktel is a crown corp, that means our government owns it. they provide EXCELLENT service and treat customers with respect. i pay slightly more every month with great satisfaction knowing that i ACTUALLY get the service they sold me. i exceed 200g EVERY MONTH… no complaints.
ya for socialism!
January 21st, 2008 at 11:28 pm
I’m with Tek Savvy and so far, they haven’t turned yet. They also recently bumped up the 100 GB limit for the premium package to 200 GB! Nice guys!
January 24th, 2008 at 1:35 am
I’m a bell technician. Basically they need to get more fiber, and get it closer to the houses. Once they do that your caps will probably get higher but they obviously need money to put that shit in. I was going to trash my company but I understand its position. So I just don’t use their services! Im switching to teksavvy with 200 gb bandwidth. Well see how that goes!
Whoever said that your bandwidth use will affect your neighbours connection, it’s partially true. Between your DSL modem and the Central Office/Remote CO is your own set of wires. Your neighbour has there own. There is a set of wires for each telephone number or dry loop in the residence. Your bandwidth (along with others) is probably clogging up at the CO/Remote CO where it jumps onto the fiber. Some areas have the fiber (and slams) in the OPI. Effectivley bringing the fiber closer to the home. In the future, if they were really ambitious (and rich), maybe they would bring you the pleasure of bringing you fiber to the curbside. There’s alot of work needed to be done and it will take a long time to do it. By the way, Im just a temporary part time technician and these are only my explanations and speculations. None of this came from the office or my Boss. It seems like a bitchslap to you, if you dont see the network and how it is slowley growing. Bell just wants to ensure its millions of families served are able to get on the internet and kids are able to do their homework. I on the other had want my site to be able to grow, and need to download linux related stuff.
January 24th, 2008 at 1:39 am
Oh, by the way, most DSL providers use Bells lines/slams. Most cable ISP’s use Rogers/Cogeco’s plant. Bandwidth restrictions are set by the ISP i believe, although I wouldnt be surprised to see Bell capping and shaping bandwidth consumption for all ISP’s using its plant.
gotta go i work tomorrow and it’s late O_o ftr I do not like my job.
January 27th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Its nice to know even Bell techs don’t use Bell-Sympatico.
Also, Teksavvy lets you buy blocks of B/W for pennies. This is the way to go.
Its also not just P2P thats affected, FTP is affected as well. But Bells stance and lame reply to this is: Bell-Sympatico does not support FTP hahaha
January 31st, 2008 at 10:40 pm
Well I for one can attest that I do NOT download 200GB, in fact my computer was out of commission for almost a month (mobo went up in smoke) and I have been with Bell for over 4 yrs also having a grandfathered “unlimited” DSL service. I have been throttled to 30kB/s for more than 12 hrs a day! I pay $52.95 for a service that now I am not getting. I am getting sick of service providers reaching deep into my pockets and then taking away services. Enough is enough. The problem here is that people sit back and take this shit from corporations like Bell and Rogers, not to mention an endless list of insurance companies. If Saskatchewan can make it work having government owned insurance and service providers why can’t Ontario? This province needs a consumer uprising of revolutionary proportions. The more we sit back and keep our mouths shut the worse it is going to get. The person who coined the phrase “Big Brother Bell” got it right. Corporations will oppress the people far worse than the government. I am not a Network Abuser and I am outraged that I am being treated as such. Governments of other countries have been overthrown for less than corporations like Bell have been dishing out.
We are far from the age of the customer is always right. Now the customer is only a number to be exploited at every opportunity.
Access to the information of the Net is our right. The Internet is a place of free expression and exchange of ideas. If Bell wants to wage a “war on network abusers”, I say the people need to wage war on Bell and any other corporation that tells its consumers ‘were going to fuck you, and there is nothing you can do about it!’ Consumers make the company, not the other way around.
“Sasktel ftw” has the right idea. Yay for socialism, cause capitalism is only succeeding in raping the average joe.
Bell may be at the top of pyramid right now, but if everyone who was fed up with this shit just walked away they would fall hard. Ontario may have the largest population but we certainly fall way behind the other provinces. I still see “Debt Retirement” charge on my Horizon Electric Bill because of the shit that the former Ontario Hydro pulled and now I have to go through the same bullshit from Bell. No fucking way amigo! As of now I am cancelling each and every one of my Bell services and no amount of sweet deals offered or bullshit lies from uninformed representatives will ever get me to return.
February 4th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Right on “leavingbellforever” , our society is so fucked up we have become so tolerant of political, and corporate corruption that the time has come to start sending these bastards a message, unfortunately most means of conveying such messages seem futile e.g. complaining to a govt. regulatory body(more than likely chaired by shareholders or in the pocket of such interests) discourages even the most ardent person. The Ontario hydro debt relief charge should have been enough for a mass revolt against Ontario Hydro but them being the only game in town and us being sheep have accepted this. I recently read Naomi Klein’s shock doctrine which is a very vivid look at capitalism, well researched and documented, this book totally changed my perspective on how the world works, specifically how huge corporations and greed control and sway our domestic and foreign policy’s, not to mention the media that is supposedly free press. This book got me extremely angry, but at the same time sad considering I am invested in the same corporations that are directly or indirectly the cause of such human suffering and death the world over…. and yeah fuck Bell
March 22nd, 2008 at 7:59 am
I would like to say that if someone sells a service that states people can download, month by month, using an unlimitied account……then that is what each person should get. We are paying for it…..that is how they advertised and sold it to us.
If this is the case, then Bell has blatantly defrauded the public using international media channels, not to mention abusing our Canadian Beavers in the process. We should have the right to challenge any company who deems it necessary to throttle down bandwidth usage.
Unfortunately, due to the telephone lines that are used, they are owned and operated by Bell. In the end, they still get money from us, the users of the services. In itself, that allows the ignorance of Bell to do whatever they want, whenever they want and for how long they want.
I have had many negative issues regarding my internet account with Bell Sympatico in the very recent months. In their efforts to fix the issues….they have given me hundreds of dollars of free internet, upgraded my internet account, sent me a all in one modem, router, etc, etc. All of this has not changed my issues. My internet still drops unexpectedly…..blah, blah, blah.
I DO BELIEVE THAT IT IS A WASTE OF TIME. ARE THERE ANY ISP COMPANIES OUT THERE WHO ARE ABLE TO DELIVER WHAT THEY ARE SELLING? I AM LED TO BELIEVE THAT THE ANSWER IS NO.
March 30th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
What can I say?…I had a 6mb, unlimited upload and download from Bell Sympatico. Last fall I noticed my connection speed dropping to less than 30kb/s up and about 10kb/s down. I phone them to complain and all they did is to send me new modems saying that they were faulty. This went on for 2 months, and 7 new modems before a tech finally admitted they were throttling. I phone customer service and told them they had breached my contract and canceled and went with Teksavvy. No problem you think eh?….Things were great at Teksavvy, best customer service you could possibly ask for, until Bell gets it’s claws out again. I am a Teksavvy customer, what right does Bell have to mess around with my bandwidth?
Somebody needs to put an end to this monopoly and dictatorship! Enough is enough
May 11th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
One wonders why the formerly crown owned and operated phone lines were ever handed over to private interests in the first place? Transfer the service, billing and administration aspects fine, but to give them miles and miles of cable and telling them to have fun with it? Unconscionable. The country was split up like a Monopoly board.
I doubt we’ll have a real solution until new infrastructure shows up on the field, and there aren’t many players with the resources to do that I’m afraid.
May 20th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
humm i have Azureus and i am downloading popular torrents (lots of seeds) and Bell clearly limits my KB/s:
i put the download limit manually to 1 KB/s in the Azureus options, wait till it reaches it, put it back to unlimited, and the download speed climbs to 250 KB/s, then 10 secs later back down to 50 KB/s… gay? someone?
maybe we should all boycott Bell and all leave them ASAP and join another ISP until theyve learned the lesson that customers have real power
tnx for reading
May 29th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
PeaceL
I did the same thing a few months ago, with the manual limit. That’s what ringed a bell about my crappy bandwidth.
November 22nd, 2008 at 3:25 pm
“Iâm a bell technician. Basically they need to get more fiber, and get it closer to the houses. Once they do that your caps will probably get higher but they obviously need money to put that shit in.”
Bell is going into big trouble not because they are limiting bandwich but because they are lying to their customers. Just put an overal bandwich limit across the board that people will understand, say so and don’t use some crapy and malfonctioning trafic shaping Sandvine crap.
End of story and end of marqueting BS!
When you start lying you end up caugh in unextricable situations. Unfortunarly marketing has become the science of BS and lie. This is part of the problem with our economy.
There so much lies arround that it become impossible to manage or understand anything.
We need a cultural change in the way business is conducted in this country and customer must be king again. Overwise people are going to stop bying stuff.
As far as I am concern it is already hapening.
I got feed up with bying crap and reduced my services to the minimum.
If I have to go down to dialup until we can replace internet with something else that no company can control, so be it.
Meanwhile I am already saving tons of money since I just realzed that I did not need 70% of what I was paying for.
November 9th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
Just had a co-worker, delayed for the THRID time for internet installation, unacceptable, she canceled soly on TechSavy’s response to installation, to top it off! She was charged for returning the modem she never used, that is robbery, most contries incarcarate people (companies) for that attitude, Good luck Tech Savy, the word will spread..
another fine choice by Bell Canada.
November 1st, 2011 at 1:10 pm
Hi everybody!!!
A little unknown note. Bell has another policy …… look under Bell/Alliance. They say, in layman’s terms, they have the RIGHT to use whatever means to regulate an account usage to any extent (in a nut shell). This would include and not limited to dDOS, intrusion, removal of software that THEY deem a threat….remotely. They leave the original folder(s) intact, but remove system/DLL/security files. Bell as well as other providers DON’T like security, monitoring, tracking add-ons period. Securing your IP/Mac will work for a while, but resets to the ISP original REMOTELY. I have seen this 1st hand on Bell/Rogers and other ISP. They all throttle your accounts/mind set/intellect/bank account and credit. The Internet is now “Scarey Move 666″, like it or not.