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	<title>Comments on: Snocap melting away</title>
	<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/14340</link>
	<description>p2pnet.net offers not-your-lamescream news on movies music digital media P2P peer-to-peer TV television file sharing freedom of speech open source product news Wifi mobiles company</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 10:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Cris</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/14340#comment-239648</link>
		<author>Cris</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 00:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/14340#comment-239648</guid>
		<description>As a published musician I have a comment on why Snocap has failed. We looked at snocap as a possible channel about 12 to 18 months ago and concluded... that it was just too expensive for our band to pursue. It gave us none of the benefits of a major channel, and offered us none of the profit that direct digital distribution could. It didn't cut out middle men. It added them. We had no control over our pricing. We wanted to offer tracks at quite reduced prices because it's an economics of abundance, but the snocap taxes and financial structure just didn't allow us to do it. There 'cut' was quite unreasonable. I will never understand why business men think that selling a digital download of an album at the same price as a real, physical CD with artwork, is a deal to the end consumer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a published musician I have a comment on why Snocap has failed. We looked at snocap as a possible channel about 12 to 18 months ago and concluded&#8230; that it was just too expensive for our band to pursue. It gave us none of the benefits of a major channel, and offered us none of the profit that direct digital distribution could. It didn&#8217;t cut out middle men. It added them. We had no control over our pricing. We wanted to offer tracks at quite reduced prices because it&#8217;s an economics of abundance, but the snocap taxes and financial structure just didn&#8217;t allow us to do it. There &#8216;cut&#8217; was quite unreasonable. I will never understand why business men think that selling a digital download of an album at the same price as a real, physical CD with artwork, is a deal to the end consumer.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Mowry</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/14340#comment-238683</link>
		<author>Stephen Mowry</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Dec 2007 06:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/14340#comment-238683</guid>
		<description>There are numerous issues as the music industry goes through this major transition.  IMO there are 5 major areas:

1.  The massive conglomerates that benefit the most from every "copy" of a musicians work and the little that musicians get.
2.  The transition from albums to singles (because of digital distribution).
3.  The modern view of copyright and intellectual property.
4.  The advancement of modern recording equipment.
5.  DRM

Here's my shot at it:
1.  Things are improving.  The "consumer" (or audience in this case) can only benefit when large multi-national conglomerates do not dictate what they can and cannot listen to.
2.  The transition from album to single is good and bad.  Bad because artists want to distribute a "complete work" (think of Beethoven's 7th Symphony but only hearing the 3rd movement.  Beethoven would freak out).  Good because artists (and studios) can't get away with packaging one good song on a complete crap album.  This forces artists to be more creative.
3.  A.B. Dada has it right.  The problem is the modern ability to continue to charge for every "copy" of the work regardless of the cost of manufacturing and distribution.  Before recording music was possible, musicians HAD to perform their work to earn a living.  Book publishers charged based on what it cost to produce and distribute a book (plus a small margin).  How do you determine the cost for something that costs so little to manufacturer and distribute in the digital age?   What's happening is the capital markets are working as it should.  99 cents a song is too much for a lot of music.  Until they drop the price, there will always be p2p file sharing.  The same thing will begin to happen with video, as soon as you can download and copy video as easily as music.  Streaming video (TV channels) will be obsolete.
4.  A lot of albums nowadays are being produced in home studios.  The quality of the equipment is so high and the cost so cheap, there is no reason for studios and artists to make the case for exorbitant prices based on production costs.
5.  People will ALWAYS want to share their music.  DRM will always stand in the way of this.  Steve Jobs has it right.  DRM is no longer acceptable by the consumer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are numerous issues as the music industry goes through this major transition.  IMO there are 5 major areas:</p>
<p>1.  The massive conglomerates that benefit the most from every &#8220;copy&#8221; of a musicians work and the little that musicians get.<br />
2.  The transition from albums to singles (because of digital distribution).<br />
3.  The modern view of copyright and intellectual property.<br />
4.  The advancement of modern recording equipment.<br />
5.  DRM</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s my shot at it:<br />
1.  Things are improving.  The &#8220;consumer&#8221; (or audience in this case) can only benefit when large multi-national conglomerates do not dictate what they can and cannot listen to.<br />
2.  The transition from album to single is good and bad.  Bad because artists want to distribute a &#8220;complete work&#8221; (think of Beethoven&#8217;s 7th Symphony but only hearing the 3rd movement.  Beethoven would freak out).  Good because artists (and studios) can&#8217;t get away with packaging one good song on a complete crap album.  This forces artists to be more creative.<br />
3.  A.B. Dada has it right.  The problem is the modern ability to continue to charge for every &#8220;copy&#8221; of the work regardless of the cost of manufacturing and distribution.  Before recording music was possible, musicians HAD to perform their work to earn a living.  Book publishers charged based on what it cost to produce and distribute a book (plus a small margin).  How do you determine the cost for something that costs so little to manufacturer and distribute in the digital age?   What&#8217;s happening is the capital markets are working as it should.  99 cents a song is too much for a lot of music.  Until they drop the price, there will always be p2p file sharing.  The same thing will begin to happen with video, as soon as you can download and copy video as easily as music.  Streaming video (TV channels) will be obsolete.<br />
4.  A lot of albums nowadays are being produced in home studios.  The quality of the equipment is so high and the cost so cheap, there is no reason for studios and artists to make the case for exorbitant prices based on production costs.<br />
5.  People will ALWAYS want to share their music.  DRM will always stand in the way of this.  Steve Jobs has it right.  DRM is no longer acceptable by the consumer.</p>
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		<title>By: wyly</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/14340#comment-238305</link>
		<author>wyly</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 23:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/14340#comment-238305</guid>
		<description>No cash, no Music.  It's really that simple.  It takes money to produce the quality of recorded music people have come to expect.  The illegal P2P phenomenon exists solely as a temporary aberration during a period in which the world is content with an extensive back catalog of music produced in an era when all parties were paid; a time when the owners of the intellectual property (labels and artists) are amazingly still caught like deer in the headlights...not knowing which direction to jump.  To anyone who passed Econ 101 it is blatantly obvious that artists and their backers MUST figure out a way to get people to pay for recorded music again.  Otherwise, a major (often the only) incentive for creating, producing and promoting talent will disappear forever.  Without defensible intellectual property law the future of music as a career option is bleek.  You people who continue to steal music are not playing by the rules and in the long run your collective actions are going to ruin it for everyone, including yourselves.  The labels need to stop experimenting with ridiculous "business models" and get behind several digital retailers that sell the product for a price that makes a fair profit for all parties.  The only model that can do that at this juncture is subscription music -- Napster, Rhapsody, etc.  The labels need to get behind these businesses and make them work, for their own sake, for the sake of commercially viable music overall.  Furthermore, once people try the "jukebox in the sky" they seem to like the value propostion -- I know I do.  For less than the cost of one meal I get the world's library of music at my disposal for a month.  No futzing with files, no risk of file obsolescence, total freedom.  This is the only model that makes sense for all parties, consumers as well as artists and producers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No cash, no Music.  It&#8217;s really that simple.  It takes money to produce the quality of recorded music people have come to expect.  The illegal P2P phenomenon exists solely as a temporary aberration during a period in which the world is content with an extensive back catalog of music produced in an era when all parties were paid; a time when the owners of the intellectual property (labels and artists) are amazingly still caught like deer in the headlights&#8230;not knowing which direction to jump.  To anyone who passed Econ 101 it is blatantly obvious that artists and their backers MUST figure out a way to get people to pay for recorded music again.  Otherwise, a major (often the only) incentive for creating, producing and promoting talent will disappear forever.  Without defensible intellectual property law the future of music as a career option is bleek.  You people who continue to steal music are not playing by the rules and in the long run your collective actions are going to ruin it for everyone, including yourselves.  The labels need to stop experimenting with ridiculous &#8220;business models&#8221; and get behind several digital retailers that sell the product for a price that makes a fair profit for all parties.  The only model that can do that at this juncture is subscription music &#8212; Napster, Rhapsody, etc.  The labels need to get behind these businesses and make them work, for their own sake, for the sake of commercially viable music overall.  Furthermore, once people try the &#8220;jukebox in the sky&#8221; they seem to like the value propostion &#8212; I know I do.  For less than the cost of one meal I get the world&#8217;s library of music at my disposal for a month.  No futzing with files, no risk of file obsolescence, total freedom.  This is the only model that makes sense for all parties, consumers as well as artists and producers.</p>
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		<title>By: Hedkandee</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/14340#comment-238263</link>
		<author>Hedkandee</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 21:53:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/14340#comment-238263</guid>
		<description>The article completely misses the most important thing that's happened to the music business since iTunes - imeem.com - they've become the youtube for mp3's and they've made deals with all the major record labels to keep the whole thing legal by giving them a cut of the cash.

So what has this to do with snocap? Well snocap provides the backend magic that figures out what tracks have been uploaded and who owns the copyright for the work so that they get paid, so presumably snocap has some sort of cut on this whole deal and stands to make a mint as imeem grows up to youtube sized proportions. Whether that will happen quickly enough is questionable, but snocap is more than just the music store that people see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The article completely misses the most important thing that&#8217;s happened to the music business since iTunes - imeem.com - they&#8217;ve become the youtube for mp3&#8217;s and they&#8217;ve made deals with all the major record labels to keep the whole thing legal by giving them a cut of the cash.</p>
<p>So what has this to do with snocap? Well snocap provides the backend magic that figures out what tracks have been uploaded and who owns the copyright for the work so that they get paid, so presumably snocap has some sort of cut on this whole deal and stands to make a mint as imeem grows up to youtube sized proportions. Whether that will happen quickly enough is questionable, but snocap is more than just the music store that people see.</p>
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		<title>By: A.B. Dada</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/14340#comment-237886</link>
		<author>A.B. Dada</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 14:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/14340#comment-237886</guid>
		<description>Recorded music will always have a market value of zero, or close to it.  Even $1 per song is too high, and this price will fall.

All markets rely on supply and demand: as the supply of an item, prices fall.  As the demand for an item goes down, prices fall.

Digital music has a near-infinite supply.  Transfering 3MB of data (say, one song), as a cost of less than 1/2 cents from a server.  P2P the cost is trivial and far lower.

Yet there IS a way to make money with music: it's called performing and value added items.  When you go to work, say flipping burgers, you're paid for the act of working, the labor.  The person who invented the burger doesn't charge fees for the act of making a burger.  Music is no different.  Making music, the act of writing it, is akin to learning how to make a burger.  All of us get trained at no profit, and sometimes at great risk of a loss of time.  Learning to make music is tricky, and it is artistic, but it should be no different in terms of learning how to make a burger, or learning how to fix a leaky faucet.

Bands will soon rely only on the performance of their music.  That's what differentiates one band from another: their ability to entertain.  And entertainment has GREAT value.  There are many ways for bands to make money entertaining.  You can play live.  Maybe sell your CDs and include 1 ticket to a live concert.  Or sell a CD, and include 5 tickets to an online performance.

Making money doesn't end there.  How about selling CDs and offering CD purchasers the chance to win an hour of lessons in how to play their favorite song?  Oh wait, the government prevents bands from offering contests in exchange for buying an item.  It's the law that harms the musician.

You can make money selling autographed albums, or selling DVDs or CDs of the actual concert people attended.  The cost to record a concert, and burn 50 CDs in 10 minutes before people leave, is trivial.

Don't complain about the zero value of recorded music -- its a market process that can't be worked around.  Instead, find ways to MAKE MONEY WITH YOUR NEW AND ONGOING LABORS.  Just like the burger flipper or the faucet-leak fixer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recorded music will always have a market value of zero, or close to it.  Even $1 per song is too high, and this price will fall.</p>
<p>All markets rely on supply and demand: as the supply of an item, prices fall.  As the demand for an item goes down, prices fall.</p>
<p>Digital music has a near-infinite supply.  Transfering 3MB of data (say, one song), as a cost of less than 1/2 cents from a server.  P2P the cost is trivial and far lower.</p>
<p>Yet there IS a way to make money with music: it&#8217;s called performing and value added items.  When you go to work, say flipping burgers, you&#8217;re paid for the act of working, the labor.  The person who invented the burger doesn&#8217;t charge fees for the act of making a burger.  Music is no different.  Making music, the act of writing it, is akin to learning how to make a burger.  All of us get trained at no profit, and sometimes at great risk of a loss of time.  Learning to make music is tricky, and it is artistic, but it should be no different in terms of learning how to make a burger, or learning how to fix a leaky faucet.</p>
<p>Bands will soon rely only on the performance of their music.  That&#8217;s what differentiates one band from another: their ability to entertain.  And entertainment has GREAT value.  There are many ways for bands to make money entertaining.  You can play live.  Maybe sell your CDs and include 1 ticket to a live concert.  Or sell a CD, and include 5 tickets to an online performance.</p>
<p>Making money doesn&#8217;t end there.  How about selling CDs and offering CD purchasers the chance to win an hour of lessons in how to play their favorite song?  Oh wait, the government prevents bands from offering contests in exchange for buying an item.  It&#8217;s the law that harms the musician.</p>
<p>You can make money selling autographed albums, or selling DVDs or CDs of the actual concert people attended.  The cost to record a concert, and burn 50 CDs in 10 minutes before people leave, is trivial.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t complain about the zero value of recorded music &#8212; its a market process that can&#8217;t be worked around.  Instead, find ways to MAKE MONEY WITH YOUR NEW AND ONGOING LABORS.  Just like the burger flipper or the faucet-leak fixer.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: dumb pricing</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/14340#comment-237076</link>
		<author>dumb pricing</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2007 23:59:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/14340#comment-237076</guid>
		<description>Charging a dollar was suicidal. And worst of all, completely unnecessary. Charge 20 cents or even a quarter and people would be happy to browse around and try out unknown artists just on impulse. If the whole album costs a couple of bucks, well why not?

Their model should have been the 99 cent stores. And not for that price, but rather for a price well below what's normal and painful for the items. How many times have you anybody walked through a 99 cent store and somehow ended up with 25 items? You'd never have bought nearly that many for the regular price at, say, WalMart. Basically you were willing to spend $25, and that's what the 99 cent store counts on - not "how much per item", but rather simply "how much."

And with an incremental cost not much above zero, that model was perfect for Snocap. They could have helped change the industry. Instead they went stupid broke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charging a dollar was suicidal. And worst of all, completely unnecessary. Charge 20 cents or even a quarter and people would be happy to browse around and try out unknown artists just on impulse. If the whole album costs a couple of bucks, well why not?</p>
<p>Their model should have been the 99 cent stores. And not for that price, but rather for a price well below what&#8217;s normal and painful for the items. How many times have you anybody walked through a 99 cent store and somehow ended up with 25 items? You&#8217;d never have bought nearly that many for the regular price at, say, WalMart. Basically you were willing to spend $25, and that&#8217;s what the 99 cent store counts on - not &#8220;how much per item&#8221;, but rather simply &#8220;how much.&#8221;</p>
<p>And with an incremental cost not much above zero, that model was perfect for Snocap. They could have helped change the industry. Instead they went stupid broke.</p>
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		<title>By: catflap</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/14340#comment-236703</link>
		<author>catflap</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/14340#comment-236703</guid>
		<description>i used to go to mp3.com when most - or was it all? - the music was free to download. since they started charging for music i've avoided mp3.com like i would the black plague.

snocap, napster, itunes mp3.com, and all these other soon-to-be and soon-to-be-gone music stores (rental outlets) are run by dickheads. they can't beat free, drm-less p2p. it won't ever go away, but they will.

good riddance to bad rubbish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i used to go to mp3.com when most - or was it all? - the music was free to download. since they started charging for music i&#8217;ve avoided mp3.com like i would the black plague.</p>
<p>snocap, napster, itunes mp3.com, and all these other soon-to-be and soon-to-be-gone music stores (rental outlets) are run by dickheads. they can&#8217;t beat free, drm-less p2p. it won&#8217;t ever go away, but they will.</p>
<p>good riddance to bad rubbish.</p>
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