Scientology spam on p2pnet
p2pnet - I had an op on my injured right eye, yesterday, and it was 100% succcessful.
Sitting in front of a computer all day is hard work when you can’t see properly.
However, my sight is now entirely back to normal which, considering it’s also my birthday, is a pretty cool present 
Although I wasn’t planning on doing any posting today, I logged on to deal with the hand-submitted junk and saw a bunch of obvious Scientology garbage from shills, which I’ve just deleted —- all 59 posts.
As vested interests try to strip our rights away, freedom of speech and expression are even more important than ever with the Net as the one place where people can say what they want without fear.
That’s why I’ve always allowed, and always will allow, anonymous posting.
However, this does not extend to allowing people and interests which are clearly against free will to promote themselves here, and that’s what’s been happening over the last few hours as Scientology shills planted blatantly fake Q&A’s and insultingly obvious cult propaganda on Scientology victims – online.
So they’re gone.
Unfortunately, this meant the few genuine comments bit the dust as well, and for that I sincerely apologise. But I’m sure most of you willl understand.
I’m going to continue to give my newly restored optic a break, but I’ll be checking back from time to time.
===========
[NOTE: In another first for p2pnet, I'll now be monitoring this post and others which mention the cult of Scientology. Anything I, as editor, decide is legitimate comment will be allowed. Everything else, including links to sites which attempt to justify the existence of Scientology, will be deleted. In five years, I've never before felt the need. This in itself says something about Scientology ---- 3:08 pm, Pacific.]
Cheers! And all the best …
Jon Newton – p2pnet
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February 6th, 2008 at 9:16 am
I was enjoying that thread and seeing those Scientology shills get pasted was really funny. Good bit of censorship/killjoying there, Jon. I’m sure you’ll delete this post as well.
Anyway, glad the op went well.
Keep showing up Big Media for the dirtbags that they are.
February 6th, 2008 at 9:42 am
“Good bit of censorship/killjoying there, Jon’
Seriously, you knew it was crap. But you only have to look at the reactions to some of the p2pnet spoofs to know a lot of people – far too many – believe everything they hear/see. That’s why the RIAA, MPAA and others of their ilk survive and prosper, with help from the lamescream media, of course.
This is the first time since p2pnet went online in 2002 that I’ve deleted comment posts wholesale. There were 67 of these, if you count the ones waiting in the moderation queue, and meanwhile, at a guess, other than these, I’ve probably trashed no more than 20 – 25 Reader’s Writes, most of which were merely gratuitously obscene or offensively racial, in all.
Hopefully, p2pnet is somewhere people come to find stories, commentaries and perspectives on things which interest and concern them.
I’m sorry you see my deletion of the Scientology spam/propaganda as censorship, a term usually applied to individuals or entities which are trying to prevent people from learning the truth.
I see it as taking out the garbage
February 6th, 2008 at 10:00 am
Scientology and RIAA could go down together, which would be epic!!!
February 6th, 2008 at 10:01 am
I’m glad you’re doing well and Happy Birthday.
“…you only have to look at the reactions to some of the p2pnet spoofs to know a lot of people – far too many – believe everything they hear/see.”
Come on you have to have more faith in your audience than that … although some of the responses to the posting about the dna drm were ridiculous.
Anyway as long as your up front about exactly what you deleted and why I don’t believe it’s unreasonable censorship.
As far as being a killjoy though, who doesn’t like to see jackasses try to defend their utterly illogical beliefs and opinions.
Oh well…
February 6th, 2008 at 10:27 am
JON I’M GLAD THE OP WENT WELL oh yeah, you can see again!
Seriously, the Scienospam is instructive, if only to demonstrate how the organization ‘responds’ by collectively covering their ears and yelling LALALALALALALALA.
Thing is, these aren’t individual Scientologists responding from the heart, but an orchestrated, policy-driven campaign to drown out free discourse. Not only do they not want to hear it, they don’t want you to hear it, either. They work hard to make darn sure you don’t hear it.
Perhaps it would be a fun exercise to save the next barrage to be put up on a page for the purpose of illustrating how easy it is to pick out the talking points they were given to harp on.
February 6th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Scientologists are wack, there’s no denying it. But which of their methods and what of their teachings are really all that different from Mormonism? The similarities are astounding, and yet here we are laughing at and being scared of the group and considering electing one of the other group to the highest office in the USA. Historically, Mormomns have been more dangerous and subversive than Scientologists, so why are they suddenly respectable now? They have a very similar Sci-Fi story at the core of their teaching, too.
Scientologists are cultish wackos, but they’re not the only ones and they’re not even the largest or most influential group of that type.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:03 am
Personally, I was enjoying watching Lake flounder around and avoid the genuine questions posed to him/her but the reasoning behind the comment deletion is sound as far as I’m concerned.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Ok Jon – appreciate not deleting my comment.
Personally, I think the kind of page views a controversial article like that can generate, can only be good for your site, to get your main message across about Big Media and so on. Around 1500 page views is really going some. Yes, some people will fall for the hype, but lots more others will see scientology for the shit cult that it is, especially people who haven’t really heard much about them until now. Shame I missed the bit about the DNA DRM thing. Shucks, lol
Also, I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect a controversial article like that to now generate lots of comments and flames from either side and to cull it just seems wrong. Let people debate/flame I say! But anyway, you’re the one with the admin rights…
@Reader’s Write 10:48am: I’ve only ever know about the scientology cult. I’m curious what is the largest or most influential group, so that I can google them and also to avoid them like the plague. Anyway, gonna look up the mormons.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:45 am
^^ I know exactly what you mean and don’t think I didn’t consider these, and similar, points before I decided to dump the lot.
I love controversial ideas and if Lake & Co had been posting genuine comments with genuine points of view, even if I’d strongly disagreed with them, they’d have stayed up.
But their posts were so obviously carefully constructed, self-serving and formulaic cult propaganda, I decided I didn’t want them here.
You, and people like you, are always welcome, and so are your thoughts and opinions. People and cults who, and which, try to force themselves and their beliefs on others are not, and never will be.
Cheers!
February 6th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
re: scientology and mormonism:
Sorry, it’s not a contest to see who registers higher on the wack-o-meter. It’s about abuse of people and the law. And I don’t remember Mormons being sent to jail for infiltrating US government offices to steal files on itself and replace them with cheerier, untrue information. But Scientology did that. It was the largest such infiltration in US history. Google Operation Snow White. 11 Scientologists went to jail, including the wife of founder L Ron Hubbard, who was an ‘unindicted co-conspirator.’ He left her to rot in jail.
Google what they did to Gabe Cazares, who was mayor of Clearwater when Scientology moved in and he refused to deal with them under the table. Read The Scandal of Scientology, which is available free online, and learn what they did to author Paulette Cooper when she also tried to raise her voice about it.
Their desperation to stifle free speech, crush criticism instead of address issues, destroy the mental health profession, and impose non-evidence-based Hubbardian methods of education, drug rehab and prisoner reform upon our communities is well-documented.
It’s not just a harmless nut cult. It’s worse than you think.
February 6th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
^^ Well said.
Cheers!
February 6th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Jon wrote: “However, [free speech and expression] does not extend to allowing people and interests which are clearly against free will to promote themselves …”
What a perfect little world you have setup for yourself, Jon. You claim to be in favor of “free speech” but only to those whose speech you agree with.
Enjoy your little bubble.
That would be the one that you accuse Scientologists of living in.
February 6th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Memoirs of an Ex-Guardian – Gary Weber
http://www.lermanet2.com/garyweber/
I am writing of my experience when I was in the Church of Scientology’s highest secular order called, “The Flag Guardian’s Office.” In order to begin this path of commitment you have to hand over your life for the next billion years. This commitment entails reincarnating yourself, lifetime after lifetime, to L. Ron Hubbard’s “Sea Organization.” Although I wasn’t told of how I would find my Sea Org parents in-between lives, however I had faith that the enlightened ones would direct me.
My story isn’t meant to harm, harass or even make judgments. The reason I am now sharing my experience is because I never fully recovered from the harmful effects of this experience and fearful of the attacks that the Church of Scientology would wage against me. I believe in order to continue on my path of healing and become whole again I feel it’s important now to share my personal experience and shed my long fear of silence.
February 6th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
maggie, you obviously don’t know anything about Mormon history. Try looking it up and see just how subversive they have been (and presumably still are). Scientologists never declared war on the US Government, but Mormons did. That’s right. And how about child brides? And blood atonement?
February 6th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
And whoever said they were harmless? My point was that Mormons are just as harmful.
February 6th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Free Thinker said, “I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect a controversial article like that to now generate lots of comments and flames from either side and to cull it just seems wrong.”
Until now, I’ve been deleting. However, I’m now exercising my right as editor by culling, ie, dropping cult posts which, IMHO, can be described as propaganda, subtle and otherwise.
Cheers!
February 6th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
I thought you would take the day off Jon.
February 6th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
That was the plan. However, the discomfort I was feeling following my eye op is now pretty well cleared up. Also, I’m doing other stuff offline.
So no worries
Cheers!
February 6th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
whyd you delete my post?
February 6th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
“whyd you delete my post?”
^^ Because it referred to an earlier Scientology post. The trouble with dumping spam is: associated comments sometimes go too because without the item referred to, they don’t make sense.
I could set things up so all posts are have to be approved before they go online. But I don’t want to do that. I don’t want to do delete anything either, but I’m not willing to let p2pnet become a propaganda delivery vehicle.
And I’ll tell you this: this whole Scientology thing is becoming a royal pain.
Cheers!
February 6th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Cheers Jon, well done!
February 6th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
okay… i was responding to lake, in defense of p2pnet. lake’s comment is still there. its fine, i was just curious.
February 6th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
I see you are deleting genuine Scientologist posts but you wil have to sleep simetime and when you do ……..
February 6th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
^^ Please see the note I added at the bottom of the post.
Cheers!
February 6th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Jon wrote: “I’m not willing to let p2pnet become a propaganda delivery vehicle.”
Of course you are. With every Scientologist’s response to the “Scientology Slave Labor Camp” article that you delete, you are proving to all that you are indeed a “propaganda delivery vehicle”.
Allowing real free speech, and letting both sides come to their own defense, would be the actions of someone not interested in promoting propaganda.
Your actions, however, are just the opposite.
February 6th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Did someone mention Lake? Check this out
http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/s/sarah-lake.html
February 6th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Scientology has to answer many questions instead it goes on the offensive and starts attacking those who question it. now that seems more like they have something to hide or cannot answer. Why would someone who isn’t guilty of something go and take an offensive stand and not explain. Seems rather strange.
February 6th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
meth0d wrote:
“Scientology has to answer many questions instead it goes on the offensive and starts attacking those who question it.”
Apparently, you’ve missed the excitement over the last 24 hours, meth0d.
The only attacking going on here is that being done by the moderator of p2pnet. He has blatantly censored a rational debate going on between both sides of the argument, and has dictatorially announced that he will delete any pro-Scientology arguments, especially if they contain the link:
[Link to cult-positive web site deleted - Jon]
Pay attention, and you’ll notice that this message will be censored (deleted) very shortly.
THAT is the link that he doesn’t want you to read.
February 6th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Shills advertise, not debate.
Trolls and Spammers can’t even claim that.
Save the recruitment and propaganda attempts, this isn’t the place for them.
February 6th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Dear Lake,
I think I love you. Will you bare my children? Or at least let me ride you like a coin operated rocket-ship outside of a grocery store? Your absolute ignorance, and OSA tactics of constant attacks and refusal to address any seriously posed question to your posts make me so HOT. I just don’t think I can resist any more.
Will you spank me and call me your naughty SP?
Love ya!
February 6th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
http://www.partyvan.info.nyud.net/index.php/Project_Chanology
February 10 is a special day:
CALL TO ARMS 12 02/10/08 11:00AM (respective timezones) Worldwide
It has come to the attention of Anonymous that there are a number of you out there who do not clearly understand what we are or why we have undertaken our present course of action. Contrary to the assumptions of the media, Anonymous is not “a group of super hackers”. Anonymous is a collective of individuals united by an awareness that someone must do the right thing, that someone must bring light to the darkness, that someone must open the eyes of a public that has slumbered for far too long, that someone must counter assholes with great lulz.
Among our numbers you will find individuals from all walks of life – lawyers, parents, IT professionals, members of law enforcement, college and graduate students, veterinary technicians and more. Anonymous is everyone and everywhere. We have no leaders, no single entity directing us – only the collective outrage of individuals, guiding our hand in the current efforts to bring awareness.
We want you to be aware of the very real dangers of Scientology. We want you to know about the gross human rights violations committed by this cult. We want you to know about Lisa McPhearson. We want you to know about former members of Scientology’s private navy, SeaOrg, who were forced to have abortions so that they could continue in service to the church. We want you to know about Scientology’s use of child labor and their gulags. We want you to know about Operation Freakout and Paulette Cooper. We want you to know about Operation Snow White and Scientology’s efforts to infiltrate the government of the United States of America.
We want you to know about all of these things that have been swept under the rug for far too long. The information is out there. It is yours for the taking. Arm yourself with knowledge.
Be very wary of the 10th of February. Anonymous invites you to join us in an act of solidarity. Anonymous invites you to take up the banner of free speech, of human rights, of family and freedom. Join us in protest outside of Scientology centers world wide. We are Anonymous. We are Legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget. We will be heard. Expect us.
.
ATTENTION
For those who are staying home on Feb. 10th, or live too far away to help IRL, go to the bottom of the page for information on how you can help. You too have a vital role to play.
February 6th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Jon is exercising his freedom to edit his website. Just as he might not choose to promote the KKK, i can see how he wouldn’t want to promote Scientology. It is a hate organization.
On the other hand, I advocate people being able to read both sides and make up their own minds. I’m sure people here are intelligent enough to go to one of Scn, Inc’s sites and read for themselves, just like they can find Operation Clambake and check out what’s there, too. Jon isn’t required to provide it if he finds it objectionable. I think he took care of his journalistic obligation when he even mentioned that he deleted a bunch of what he considered to be crap. Scientology never would have done that.<br />
The thing is, with Scientology there isn’t informed consent. You don’t get the whole story because if you hear it out of sequence, if you hear what’s really at the end of the rainbow you’re buying, it’s supposed to cause you even more problems.
It’s a totalitarian organization with a growing hit list of enemies that it creates itself.<br />
And Jon, I’m truly sorry if it’s causing you pain on your birthday, for pete’s sake.</p>
February 6th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
A cult by any name, is still a cult.
As many have stated in the past, this is a privately owned site, and just as the official sites of cults are allowed the leisure of screening what is posted on them, so does this site. So please spare us the whole “Freedom of Speech” excuse.
This is not a site for anyone, be it a **AA troll or a Cult shrill, to have their way posting junk comments. If you do not agree with what is posted here, you are “free” to go elsewhere, and you are “free” to voice your opinions to your peers, but when you pass the line, you comment can and should be removed.
As much as I agree with the comment that these posts are great in revealing these posters for who they really are, there comes a point where is owner of a site must put his foot down. And if you don’t agree with it, please go elsewhere because your comments are not giving anything to the site.
Not even newspapers are “required” to to rantings of a lunatic, just because the lunatic wants to make a point.
Just remember, when Cults abuse things like “free speech”, they run the risk of going the same way as the Aum Shinrikyo did in Japan, or Jim Jones Cult.
Just my two cents.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:04 am
If it were not so insidious, I would find it laughable how an organization so aggressive in its attacks on critics cries “free speech!” and “religious freedom!” whenever somebody says, “wait a minute, how many other churches have infiltrated the IRS?”* Obviously, since I’m worried about being stalked, framed, and defamed for exercising my own free speech against this organization, I must be a bigot.
*I read the linked explanation Lake provided. It was vague and did not quite fit with the court documents I read.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:23 am
I have been watching this article’s comments as well as those of the article which sparked it since last night. I see that Lake has been quite conscientious in responding to the questions asked of him. I hope that he or she can continue this work.
The following is addressed to Lake:
Sir or Madam,
My biggest concern about the Church of Scientology is that its official policies seem to disregard the benefits of peer-review. It is obvious that every prospective scientologist has the option to weigh all of the available information before becoming involved with the church, but it seems as though there exists relevant information which is not readily available.
I hope that you can answer for me why certain documents provided by the Church are only available to devout members after a certain amount of time, dedication, or resources have been pledged or rendered. The readiest example would be the higher texts of the Operating Thetan Levels, such as OTIII, which costs a significant sum of money when all of the necessary pre-requisites are factored in. This example stands in contrast to texts such as Dianetics, which is available in most bookstores, albeit at only a nominal fee. A much starker contrast occurs in light of the fact that in most major religions the scriptures that lend credence to beliefs are readily available to anyone upon request, free of charge and open to debate.
I’m especially curious of the Church’s derisive stance on psychiatry. While psychiatric studies are regularly published in respected scientific journals with the purpose of exposing such studies to criticism and disapproval, the Church seems to avoid such proven methods as peer-review. In the eyes of the general public, this policy will serve to undermine the credibility of such experiments, as it seems to discard the standard of the scientific method, which has been in widespread use since at least the 18th century.
It’s common knowledge that any theory, regardless of its source, cannot be proven correct but only disproven, and it follows logic that this can only be reliably accomplished by processes open to peer-review. It seems ironic to me that an organization whose name itself derives from the same root as “science” would systematically remove itself from such scientific things as the “scientific method”.
I hope, Lake, that you have the patience to walk me through your explanations for this. I have already read both sides of the debate on all these issues, and the Church’s stance on peer-review has not yet been explained. I’d be most pleased to read your take on these things.
Eagerly awaiting your response,
Ahmed
February 7th, 2008 at 7:36 am
An internal 2007 Scientology event video was put up on YouTube today.
It outlines the organization’s violent plan to ‘globally obliterate’ mental health professionals.
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=hfu7Sr50N7U
February 7th, 2008 at 7:58 am
Well Lake, explain that youtube video? Its not fake so don’t try to pull that. Explain why such action wanted by Scientologist borders on what Nazis done?
February 7th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Oh, Lake, I’m so disappointed. I saw the video. I’m afraid I don’t love you anymore. Please, leave me to my heartache! *runs off crying*
February 7th, 2008 at 10:10 am
I missed most of the troll gang. I simply wasn’t interested and when it became obvious this was not individuals but rather a gang up to attempt to do damage control; it was at that point that interest was lost.
It amazes me to think that one article pops up on this site and such a gang shows up. Think about that for a moment. It means there is a group out there constantly patrolling the net looking to do damage control. It took them no longer than a few hours after posting of the article to show up. That shows active involvement in search in the interest of spreading a certain viewpoint.
Sorry but I’m not religious. I don’t care if you are. You’re entitled to your beliefs just like I am. The point in which you get in my face over something I don’t want, need, or desire, is the point of revulsion to me. As a bumpsticker said: Jesus, save me from your followers. When it comes to this idea of live and let live, religion seems it has a long way to grow.
On another topic…
Good to hear you made it through the operation or what ever for your eye (s) John. Sort of been there and done that. The dialator used to keep the iris open was a killer the next day if any sort of light got to the eye. So I can easily understand the lack of ability, much less lack of any interest in blogging after such, even if it was outpatient treatment.
If there is something good to say, it is at least I now have vision and no longer need glasses to do daily activities. For that I am grateful. It’s been several years since I went through “my experience” and I will hope several years from now it will be a memory and nothing beyond that.
Best of luck to you Jon!
February 7th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
“I now have vision and no longer need glasses …”
Good one
I hit myself in the eye chopping wood a couple of years ago and a kind of film developed which they cleared with a laser.
Cheers!
February 7th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
I wonder how many RIAA/MPAA trolls are also part of the cult of scientology.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Jon,
I have read your article, as well as articles about $cientology that are obviously not propaganda (I was particularly interested in Gary Webber’s story). I understand your desire not to allow BS to spread here in this thread, but I also believe that I am able to withstand the ’subversiveness’ of whatever the hell websites Lake is posting. Please understand that there are some adults here who are fully capable of withstanding whatever crap the $cientolgists spew, and stop acting like our mother.
Furthermore, I have a problem with the rationale with which you justify deleting Lake’s comments. In a free society, the ideas that are best able to stand up logically on their own win over those that are not. Those ideas which are plain stupid, like $cientology, would be ripped to shreds in an open debate. We are not having an open debate here, merely the facsimile of one. Let Lake post whatever link he wants, and we can throw back the fallacies in their faces.
I agree that of course you can do whatever you want, since this is your site, but since there is a forum for this debate, please don’t end it. Have a little confidence in Man’s ability to reason, and we will win with the truth.
r/
anon
February 7th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Like most religious bigots, you’re also a coward! You have no problem spewing your vomit all over anything any Scientologist posts, but won’t participate in any kind of actual dialog with them where their voice might actually be heard instead of ridiculed.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
quote: Furthermore, I have a problem with the rationale with which you justify deleting Lake’s comments.
You are always welcome to buy your own DNS, setup you own website and have at it. Then they will be your rules and not others that are enforced. When you visit someone else’s home, then you abide by their rules or leave. The choice is always yours in this. It is part and parcel of what makes the net the net.
There are some topics that just naturally draw the wacko as well as reasonable people out of the woodwork. In specific you take that chance everytime you deal with the topics of politics and religion. How far out on the fringe you get depends on where you go with your topics and what they address. We’ve been given a prime example of that sort of reaction with both this thread and the one before that went bye bye.
If left unchecked, I don’t care for what results. If it doesn’t bother you, go camp out on the web site of those you want to take issue with. But remember just as there are rules here, there will be rules there. The difference will be in who enforces those rules and what is allowed and not allowed.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Oh and incidently, a web site is not a free society.
February 7th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Jay, my dear Jay, have you come to replace Lake? You’re not as cute but I’m willing to make an exception. You’ve got all his ignorance, but none of his tact, hmm. Well, I’ve had worse.
February 7th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
“Oh and incidently, a web site is not a free society.”
^^ It may not be a society, but it’s sure as hell free
Cheers!