p2pnet Q&A with ex-Bell Canada expert
p2pnet news | Freedom:- On Tuesday p2pnet ran two posts, one based on a Reader’s Write from Invictus (right), and the second on a later email exchange.
The subject was Bell Canada’s efforts to dictate to users what they can and can’t do with their accounts, in the process seriously interfering with freedom of speech and net neutrality.
“Invictus is a former communications specialist —- and an ex-Bell Canada employee,” we said in the second post, continuing, “He’s worked as a consultant in England, Germany, Thailand, Vietnam, as well as for banks, and a major UK tourist company.
“So when he says, ‘abolish the CRTC. Get on the next plane to Berlin, Germany and pick up a copy of the European rules and regulations —- Implement at once,’ he knows what he’s talking about.”
p2pnet contributor Ottawa Gal had a few questions for him >>>
Ottawa Gal: The CRTC tariffs to wholesale cable are pretty much prohibitive. There’s only one Videotron = wholesaler/reseller and it’s 65$ for 7-meg unlimited, and they serve only the Montreal area. The CRTC tariffs (which I don’t have handy unfortunately, and I get lost searching info on the CRTC web site to be honest) are much much higher than DSL. If it was more cost effective, the wholesaler would be all over Videotron selling their services.
I’m unsure what the problem is with wholesaling Rogers. I believe Rogers claims it can’t offer much in the way of unfettered wholesale access because of “congestion” problems. But I’m not 100% sure. (If you know the reason, I’d love to hear it.)
So, given the cost of wholesaling cable and seeing they’re only offering only 7-meg in 2008, I don’t see anything much better to come by 2010.
But some of the blame has to lay with the CRTC on this because of the prohibitive wholesale costs, and the CRTC allowing the costs to be so high and making it uncompetitive for the wholesalers to even use them.
If things don’t change the monopolies will never change, nor will the situation.
Our government has chosen a “hands off” approach. Is there legislative or CRTC reform needed?
Invictus: The only problem with wholesaling Cable by Rogers is Rogers. They’ve used any and every trick in the book to prevent access to their network. They’ve given a company called 3com/CIA limited access, mainly for VoIP service. 3com has an office in Ottawa. Don’t ever think to use them; they have the worst reputation, especially when itcomes to billing. That Rogers has a congestion problem in their network is pure unadulterated nonsense. Fiction, nothing but fiction.
Rogers has a 18mb/s in the pipeline. (Congestion? What congestion)
In Quebec they did open the cable network to smaller ISP’s. However, I’m unfamiliar with the way they achieved this, and I really don’t want to offer my opinion on something I’m not sure of.
To find the ISPs, just Google them.
The prices are set by the carriers, and in the past, the CRTC has rubberstamped most applications for rate increases.
In Europe, carriers have found it’s more profitable to open their networks to ISPs, and to concentrate on improving it. There was a carrot and stick approach by the western EU countries regarding the opening of networks. The carriers have in the meantime embraced this and are quite happy and making money. The idea that a public television show could not be transmitted in either real time or slightly delayed as in the case of the CBC would provoke a public outcry and probably charges against the carrier.
It’s my humble opinion that the carriers have a long term goal of combining their media with their delivery system. They’ve been doing that for the last few years. It’s strange indeed that the cost structure for both Cable and Telco’s is similar.
I equate this with a growing cancer: first it hurts a bit, you don’t worry, then it hurts more, you start to take Aspirin. Finally you go to the doctor and he tells you it’s too late, you should have seen him when it first startedto hurt.
Look familiar?
Ottawa Gal: Bell’s copper structure is 40 or more years old in many areas. People who should have faster internet access get only 1-meg or 3-meg (and they over 50$ for this!) due to shorts on the line, humidity problems, wires open to the elements, and so forth. Even people who have the new stingers (remotes) in their areas to give them faster speeds are plagued with copper line problems.
What’s the problem with replacing aged copper cable (lets say a defective cable) with fiber? Why isn’t it being done?
I personally had a Bell employee at my own house who told me the cable feeding me is finished and needs to be replaced (it was put up in the 60’s) and that’s why I was having so many problems with my Bell internet and phone.
The Bell technician literally spent four hours trying all available copper-pairs left on the cable feeding our house, ’til he found a pair that was stable and didn’t show a “cross or short” on it.
Millions of people probably have this same issue.
Is the cost really that prohibitive that they can’t replace 40+ year old copper in Canada with fiber?
I’ve seen Bell employees say in the forums that the cost is prohibitive due to the vast amount of copper that would need to be replaced. The Bell Employee’s also said that Canada can’t be compared to Europe (or other places) because the land area is much vaster given the population density.
In other words, the numbers of people in a given area don’t justify the cost of replacing the old copper with fiber.
Any opinion on this? Any opinion on the “population density Versus area” argument as the Bell employees tell people?
Invictus: There’s no reason not to replace most copper cables with fibre optics. HOWEVER, some people in Canada will not get the benefit of fibre optics. A lot of Bell’s cabling is ABOVE the ground, while ideally, fibre cables should be buried. You can’t isolate an above cable from the elements the way you can with buried cable. Trust me, I climbed enough poles in my rookie years. That’s one reason the Asians want to go wireless completely.
In Europe, they’ll have fibre optics to the house. The only copper left will be in the house. Several trials are underway to change that, ie, fibre to the house, wireless thereafter. It would be a higher cost for Bell as they need not only to replace the copper wire, but also the equipment in the central office.
However, this argument doesn’t wash with me.They don’t have a problem putting cell phone towers into remote areas. Therefore, they can provide wireless to remote areas.
Bell will, of course, be whining that this puts a strain on their network.
Complete rubbish.
If a country such as Thailand can provide the service in the remotest of jungle areas (and they do), so can Bell. The climatic conditions in Thailand orVietnam (they both go the same route) are far worse than in Canada. But despite allt he monsoon rains in Asia the phones work perfectly.
Ottawa Gal: I know in Europe they already have 10-meg everywhere and going to 100-meg. If I’m not mistaken, Korea already has residential 100-meg internet. Bell is still having trouble giving people 5-meg. Do you think this will end by 2013?
And do you think the big Telcos are intentionally stalling the deployment of current technology? If so, why
Invictus: The fastest way to improve service lies with parliament. I’m afraid Bell will try to stretch their outdated network as long as they can. The longer the present malaise exists, the more they’ll try to squeeze out of the consumer. Just watch them go before the CRTC, asking for atmospheric increases, because if they don’t get the increases it’ll be Armageddon.
I’ve listened to that story too many times.
Ottawa Gal: Do you have any opinion as to why Bell would want to throttle their wholesalers? Do you think it comes down to them being anti-competitive?
Or do you really think it’s possible that 5% of the internet users who use P2P application actually congested all of Bell’s network and this has to be done (while the rest of the civilized world goes to 100-meg fiber)?
If the CRTC rules Bell can throttle their wholesale competition, it would set a precedent for all Canadian Telcos to do the same. In effect all Canadian Internet providers can become throttled at any time and control the content application speed of their choosing (be it YouTube, Google, Facebook), while the Canadian people continue to pay $50+ for controlled internet.
What’a your opinion or outlook on this when you compare it to other countries you’ve worked in? Would you equate this on the same level as how China blocks its citizens from certain web sites?
Invictus: As I said before, they want to combine their media operation with the way it’s transmitted. Rest assured that if they get away with it, you’ll have all sorts of ‘Premium products,’ ie, no limit downloads, 16mb/s etc, and all at super premium prices.
What China is doing is quite different. They deny access to certain sites, but don’t use throttling.
Ottawa Gal: Does the CRTC need to take the bull by the horns so to speak, put a stop to this now, put in regulations for internet providers, and also regulate quality of service?
Invictus: The CRTC will use parliament as the scapegoat for this one. (We don’t have the authority,etc,etc,) and in a way, they’re right.
There should be a public inquiry into the behavior of the carriers.
I’ll bet you a trip to a great beach in Asia that as soon as the subpoenas are sent out, there’d be a big turn around in their attitudes.
Until then, good luck.
Stay tuned.
Jon Newton – p2pnet
[Ottawa Gal is a long-time p2pnet reader and comment poster who'd rather remain anonymous. She says she works in the University, likes her cat, reality TV, and Doctor McDreamy. Her favourite web sites are the Michael Geist blog and p2pnet.net. "Privacy on the net is also important to me," she says. "I need a tinfoil hat 
" She's also the mother of, "two darling little girls who tore down my ceiling fan thinking it would be fun to hang from it." So she advises parents to, "never have an armchair around from which little ones can reach fans". (No one was hurt 
) ]
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April 24th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Just a quick comment on this… I happen to work for a telco / isp that is doing fiber to the home deployments. One of the things frequently gloss-ed over is the sheer cost of equipment.
Here are some general figures. This does not take into account the server / network infrastructure required to get you to the internet nor the cable infrastructure to reach your house (which we pay tax on by the way). I’ll also skip the bits required to get the dial-tone to the house, etc. and talk just about internet access.
First, the equipment in the house. 4 port DSL modem $50, dsl filters, $2 each. The DSLAM in the Central or remote office, $2400 (for a 24 port model). So we’re already at $150 per dsl port. Now add the routers, switches, servers and internet bandwidth on top.
For fiber to the home (FTTH) the cost is closer to $1000 per port right now. Just the box that goes on the side of the home (referred to as an ONT) and converts from fiber to copper is around $500. Again, add all the internet infrastructure on top of that, as well as new phone equipment to send dial-tone over the fiber.
Personally, we would love to get fiber to the home for everyone in our service area, but it takes time, and a lot of money.
April 24th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
Re: Reader’s Write
The amount of gouging and overpricing by Bell, Rogers and others the cost you mention is insignificant since all users have paid for it 100’s if not 1,000’s of times over already. Many instances of new copper and fiber have already been installed in preparation of HDTV before it was even introduced to public. It’s still ongoing.
Back on topic:
This is the closest and most realistic commentary I’ve read .. of what the true story is with North American Telcos.
I’d like to add that there is absolutely no problem or reason in using airwaves as high-speed transmission of content at much higher speeds [32 mb/s down and 21 mb/s up (low estimate)] per any user in any part of Canada and at reasonable price of $30 per customer and unlimited.
Only way that Canadians will see this is by protesting VERY LOUDLY and Canada wide against Telco Tyrants. They must also be charged for Illegally Invading Our Privacy with use of DPI and other schemes. Users can also charge the Telcos for lost bandwidth, time wasted in dealing with incompetent and or lying tech support, disconnection fees, double billing which amount to extortion and or fraud.
I wonder how good it would look on Telcos, CRTC and Gov. with 1,000’s of court cases slapped in front of the courts, all requesting full information each Telco has per user per case. If settled our of court users asking 10 to 100 times of original case amount.
April 26th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
re: “I happen to work for a telco / isp that is doing fiber to the home deployments” guy
Here is the problem: Bell can’t cry expense now, because they have had years (and I mean decades) to upgrade their infrastructure and have refused. I am another of those people who lived in an area where a Bell technician came to my home because of problems with the phone line and was told that the company REFUSED to replace the obsolete equipment causing a degradation of my service. That same year they announced they had made a substantial profit. It doesn’t take a genius to put 2 and 2 together and understand that Bell is, was, and always has been in the business of maximizing short-term profits at the expense of long-term service quality, and then crying poor to get the government to subsidize their “upgrades”. As Gabriel said, we have paid over and over and over for the repairs and upgrades to the services and they are LONG overdue.
Your cost breakdowns also are typical BS – it costs x plus y plus z… for most of what you mention, it costs this amount ONCE. This could have been paid years ago in many cases, but instead Bell chose to continue to use dubious, obsolete technology in place of “more expensive” up-to-date equipment. They pay a small amount over and over and over to install garbage rather than invest – and that is, in fact what these upgrades would be if they were done – in the future.
Then to make the dubious claim about filters, modems, and so on by citing CONSUMER level pricing, when in fact Bell/insert generic company name here gets these items at bulk, wholesale rates and often charges customers rental fees FAR exceeding the actual cost of the items in the first year just demonstrates you are either extraordinarily naive, completely ignorant and snowed by your employer, or INTENTIONALLY attempting to mislead people.
They have taken money and profited while ignoring basic rules of proper business conduct and operations for decades, and now things are coming home to roost. Of course their response is to once again try and find away to screw the customers to help with their bottom line, rather than acting like responsible corporate entities. After all, with the joke that is the CRTC, that’s the path of least resistance.