Trolls: don’t feed them
p2pnet news view Freedom | P2P:- Freedom of speech is the most important, and most fundamental, of all human rights. Without it, we’d be nothing.
That’s why since Day One, on p2pnet, anyone from anywhere has been able to comment – anonymously or otherwise – on anything, and people with strongly held convictions do their best to hammer them home in the face of intense, and often ribald, opposition.
That’s cool and for 99.9999 percent of the time, no worries. Posts can become acerbic and sometimes, just plain stupid. But that’s OK too. That’s life.
What’s uncool, though, is for someone to try to take over completely, sidetracking the issues and turning the forum into a zoo, and people who engage in this kind of behaviour are known universally as Trolls.
Here’s Surfer on the subject »»»
Trolls are the homeless people of the internet. It’s identity fraud; it’s the exercise of disinformation to remain socially anonymous.
Internet Troll : As defined by wiki,
“An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.]“
Long ago, in the mac community, we had a BBS known as ‘The Breakfast Club’. It was a great board consisting of notorious and flamboyant characters who discussed every topic imaginable. From recipes to hacking tips, it allowed a measure of transparency whereas members could read and reply. It invariably slewed off-topic and the differences of opinion were the reason the board existed in the first place. Consensus typically silenced overactive egos and the occasional obstinate opinion. With enough people posting responses towards a common ‘opinion’, stamping your feet in contradiction was pretty much useless.
So, this is how the flamer (megalothymia) was born.
Insistence on an ‘opinion’, or ‘topic’ thats çontrary to general responses is nothing new and inevitably, this behavior spilled over to the internet in the form of ‘flamers’ or ‘trollers’.
The Breakfast Club had its encounters with flamers, and one in particular comes to mind, Steve Christian, aka ‘Doc’, as he was known in the underground.
He was an unloved, power hungry, insecure, 60+ dolt living in Florida, USA. His power trip was subterfuge infiltration, and then hacking take-over attempts if he ‘didn’t get his way’. And so onl.
He joined TBC (The Breakfast Club) under a pseudonym and began berating and contradicting everyone with his ‘I am more educated than anyone here’ ego, and flowery distortion of reality. His endeavors were Herculean . He’d create ghost accounts in order to respond to himself in the 3rd person in an effort to convince or support a posting. It was all very sad, really: the guy had no life. However, he was persistently annoying.
The time had come to do something. Firstly the admins of the board required registration verification via e-mail, in an effort to quell some of increase in garbage on the board. This didn’t even slow Steve down. He’d register yahoo, gmail, hotmail, macmail, all kinds of free services, with bounce forwards to one primary e-mail account. All very intensive and technical, yet Steve touted himself a ‘hacker’ and proved to be quite informed on the inner workings of the internet, how to proxy, change MAC Address, telnet, hijack mail servers, cable routers and IP spoofing. He was no slouch when it came to the internet and believe me, it took us almost 2 years to finally find him.
So anyway, the flame continued from ‘Doc’, and spilled over to other boards, The Dive, Minimilist, BaseBoard, PhreakBBS, CyberArmy and MacSerialJunkie. The amount of flamers only grew as the internet grew, and places for them to stamp their feet. So I have sympathy for Jon, running a board where it’s not required to register, and your IP doesn’t show in the posting. It takes great fortitude to suffer the insecure psychopathic dolts of the planet who anonymity on the internet gives them power to enforce their will on anyone that will listen.
And therein lies the solution.
Jon seems to take the stand of passive irrelevance, and he should. The hate mail he received could actually lead to repercussions. Informing the provider of the incident would at least have the sender’s TOS reviewed. But the best solution is to take the high road, don’t lead them on, don’t take their comments personally.
For trolls, gaining attention, good or bad, is mandatory. In their eyes, it gives them substance. If you argue with them, they only lap it up as praise and will distort every meaning to suit their delusions.
So laugh it off. Pity the person/ They probably have no social life and only use the internet as an avenue to improve their own self-importance.
As for Steve, well, we had to post pictures of his house, truck and the dingy he calls a boat on the internet in an effort to ‘persuade’ him to go away.
Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.
“Put an end once and for all to this discussion of what a good person should be, and be one.” ~ Marcus Aurelius
Surfer – p2pnet
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January 5th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
i cant see what prompted you to post this. i have not seen posts on here lately which mite make you want to do this
January 5th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
He mistakes Henry for a troll in the Homeless Wish list thread.
That ‘upset’ him.
January 5th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
I think I ’see’ where surfers problem comes from.
http://www.p2pnet.net/story/18014
Surfer and Henry got into a debate, Surfer didn’t like the way it turned out.
Ad-Hominem was the result, ( as I am certain Surfer will simply call me names
as a result of MY opinion. )
” What’s uncool, though, is for someone to try to take over completely, sidetracking the issues and turning the forum into a zoo, ”
This is true.
Yet, not everyone who disagree with you is a troll.
In the above referenced thread, Henry is not behaving as a troll, he stays on topic, and
points out the flaws in Surfers assertions.
As I pointed out my self at the end of that thread …
“A Troll slings shit because it likes the smell, no other reason. ”
Henry believes in his stance in that thread, and defends it.
THAT is not trollish behavior.
Readers should be sure to recognize the difference.
Posts that are pointless, off topic, and filled with namecalling and no
citable backing for their ‘facts’ are fairly easy to spot.
BTW, this post IS on topic.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
jon seems very touchy lately likke he want us all just to agree and be “nice” to each other and not disagree or flame or anything. boring.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
actually my post is about Steve Christian, and support for Jon on how he handled the referenced ‘hate mail’.
but feel free to speculate, on or off topic.
stw
January 5th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Got a link for us, surfer? Sounds like it might be interesting to read.
January 5th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
” actually my post is about Steve Christian, and support for Jon on how he handled the referenced ‘hate mail’.
but feel free to speculate, on or off topic. ”
Quoted from above linked thread ….
Surfer says, referring to Henry …
” yup, your an ace troll’er all right, hands down ”
Combine that with the timing of this post and it is very easy to ’speculate’
correctly or incorrectly, about going all emo on ‘Trolls’
They ARE a problem .. everywhere.
The best option IS to ignore them.
But, as I said, not all dissent is trollery, and MOST of us can tell the difference.
January 5th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
wordpress won’t allow links in posts for some reason, add to the url below for the synopsis:
p2pnet.net/story/18010
January 5th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
They usually work ok for me. Let’s see if this shows up ok: http://www.google.com
January 5th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
For some reason, Wordpress seems to be blocking url’s pointing back to this site – the post just doesn’t show up. As you can see, I can post links to other sites.
January 5th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
It still blocking attempts to put a p2pnet url in. I wonder if this non-link will show up: p2pnet.net/
January 5th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
have you blocked anything jon?
January 5th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
I noticed that earlier today in attempting to reference another story, perhaps it’s something Jon can address, or possibly even knows about already, I am not at home, therefore I cannot email him.
He will notice, he is good about things like that.
As for the hate email article, I hope you get to read it. Jon has some cast iron ‘cohones’ to let ire like that roll off his back.
however it does seem to allow Nihongo (Japanese).
‘えいご が まんに お わかりません’
-サーファー (surfer)
January 5th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
“….is someone who posts controversial,…”
OH MY WE ALL ARE TROLLS
January 5th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
and yes listen to media about free speech aren’t they the ones that ate it during george bushs war of terror
January 5th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Thanks Surfer. I’ve read it now and seen the Reader’s Write timestamped December 30th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Seems like just because he/she didn’t heap uncritical praise on Jon that they are being called a troll. That’s pathetic and is frankly the reaction of a mindless follower.
No-one is perfect, including Jon and the criticism was said in a constructive way from what I could see. The basic gist of it seems to be that Jon’s main arguments are right, but that his bias (hatred for big media perhaps?) can make him twist his facts somewhat and make him lose credibility with the *very people* that he seeks to enlighten and educate with his posting efforts. Of course, his bias makes no difference to us, because we’re already on the same side and clued up as to what’s going on with big media, government corruption etc.
Duh, I bet I get called a troll now by the unwashed. (rolls eyes)
January 5th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Okay, I gotta jump in this one:
Dasman? I’m curious: Is this another sock-puppet incident similar to that fun we all had with “Freethinker/RIAARep?” Dunno, but it kinda looks like that to me — You and Surfer bandying back and forth, and in such close agreement about how everybody else here is “mindless followers”.
Surfer: you’re STILL on the anti-homeless kick? “Trolls are the homeless people of the internet.” Wow, clever (and totally unexpected) example. What’s next? “Trolls are the ragheads of the Internet?” Dreddsnik’s onto something here, methinks — you’re experiencing butthurt over the fact that I “pwned” you over in the Homeless thread, so you took my advice and submitted a post to Jon, who — like I figured — was gracious enough to post it. (That doesn’t show him as a censorous tyrant, now does it?)
Dreddsnik: again, thanks.
January 5th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
“That’s cool and for 99.9999 percent of the time, no worries. Posts can become acerbic and sometimes, just plain stupid. But that’s OK too. That’s life.”
No, that’s Surfer, actually:
Lest anybody forget, it was you who:
1. Declared Jon to be “sycophantically supporting” a “homeless despot” because he posted something about the guy’s wish-list involving Mcdonald’s gift certificates.
2. Resorted to the following gem of wisdom in regard to me: “Debating with you is like watching the special olympics. It’s fun, but the Tard always wins.”
That’s not merely “ascerbic”, it’s also “just plain stupid”
Way to skillfully illustrate your own point, Surfer
But hey, no worries. Peace out, Y’all
January 5th, 2009 at 11:01 pm
Jeez Henry, sounds like you got a bee stuck up your butt! I new *someone* would have to accuse me of being a troll now (I’m not, I was making a reasonable point) and you just couldn’t help yourself, “Okay, I gotta jump in this one”.
Do you get a hard-on attacking complete strangers over the internet??!
Mindless follower indeed, haha!!
January 6th, 2009 at 7:21 am
hes like that. he would complain the 100USD bill you gave him was dirty and wrinkled.
pay the psycho no mind
January 6th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
LOL
” Dasman? I’m curious: Is this another sock-puppet incident similar to that fun we all had with “Freethinker/RIAARep?” Dunno, but it kinda looks like that to me ”
Yup Henry, I kinda think that too.
Been here since P2Pnet first started.
At Boycott-RIAA since Thumbtack ran it.
Today is miraculously the first appearance of Dasman, and , remarkably, he is in
total agreement with Surfer, AND like surfer, can only name call.
Strange
in any case, the basic advice stands, truer than ever before,
Just ignore ‘im.
He can obviously entertain himself well enough
No more from me … Dredd out.
January 6th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
@Dreddnik
I guess you’re no better than poor old Henry there. If you try reading my post *objectively*, I made a reasonable point about constructive criticism of Jon.
I didn’t attack *anyone*.
Then your mate Henry has an irresistible urge to have a go at me. Now who’s the troll???
Is it really any wonder I took the piss out of him?
There, no piss-taking out of you – can you understand now? Or are you and he actually the same person? (shock!)
“No more from me … Dredd out.” Sounds like a plan. Keep it that way.
Incidentally, I see Henry has also been very quiet since…
January 6th, 2009 at 3:41 pm
” Or are you and he actually the same person? (shock!) ”
Jon knows my RL name, and could easily vouch that I and
Henry are definitely not one and the same.
I am not nearly the writer Henry is, but I am just as
stubborn.
As for Henry he is just following your advice Surfer/Dasman.
No more feeding trolls.
Adieux
January 6th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
and what was the subject again? LMAO
free speech is one thing .. squabbling is why big music and all related corporations are laughing at all of us for being so good at following their plan = divide and conquer
Jon is doing good by providing info on them … it’s up to us to provide the solutions on how to fight them idiots to submission and implement them.
What’s needed is a full section on ideas, discussions and action … not just P2P but to counteract their whole system.
I’ll start: besides the obvious of us already having the best communications on the planet [that they gave us] and need of gathering all needed info on B4 [big 4 and related] and tying it all together, we need to know their plans. Not just the obvious but the hidden and even subliminal as well.
- construct a resource base
- spread the word
- plan actions
- get funds if needed [we all need finds in their b4 world, why not use theirs]
- counter their b4 tech and create our own, a more simple stronger and hard to beat
- protection for us
etc.
Anyone got the brains?
January 6th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Well said free1 !!
January 6th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
thanx dasman
January 6th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
the post was to entice Henri to expose himself for what he is, and Dreddsnik if possible. and it worked as designed. You two are really easy to profile.
Heavy handed asshats like these are easily baited, and easily pwned. case in point, please read the postings to this article.
They both exposed themselves for what they are, retards with an attitude and computer. They are easily identified, and bypassed, and just as easily pwned. Just ignore the ‘tards, they have a diagnosed disorder to explain their stupidity. http://www.letmegooglethisforyou.com.
Just the irrelevant “Okay, I gotta jump in this one:” proves the point of the article, case in point. You were right Dreddsnik, it was bait, and you took it, hence proof. Just because you have been around here since the inception of p2pnet doesn’t alienate you from being something people wipe their ass with. There is intelligent banter, off topic or otherwise, then there is you. I’d compare you to a box of rocks, but that would be badmouthing rocks. As for namecalling, I guess neither of you tards actually read anything I posted. Relevant or otherwise. Why don’t you submit your ’surfer suxors’ article to Jon and see what happens? Intelligence is a measure of rule applied by those that define the ruler. I admit, you probably don’t understand that statement, but I knew that was coming. Again, another moment in life that I understand you inadequesies better than you yourself do, hence the post. In a battle of wits, you shouldn’t enjoin unarmed.
dasman is not me, he sounds like a free willed individual to me, but you couldn’t be expected to reach that conclusion. Not with your disposition. Whether or not you ‘won’ banter with Henri gives no precedence to your arguements, it just makes you look as impotent as Henri. My point was proven in the postings to the article, and not the article itself. It’s amazing that english is not my first language, yet I am able to manipulate you into proving your stupidity using your own language, can u say pwned?
I have been socially engineering internet users since before you were born, it’s not an effort to make you and Henri expose yourself for what you are. Actually it was very simplistic.
Trolls
mebbe u and Henri should get a room.
as for Henri, he is just an idolic, opinionated retard, yes Henri, i called you a retard, no apology given. (expect pwning retorts
)
I would have posted this in japanese, but you tards wouldn’t be able to translate it, and miss the obvious effort to pwn you asshats.
stay on topic, and belay future pwning for your ‘opinion’
surfer 10
Dreddsnik (such a kewl internet name, what are you 12?) 0
Henri (overage dolt) 0
you both missed the insuation in the article, can you say stupid? mebbe u two should take up basketweaving and ask for a refund from your internet provider.) And posted in your ‘expected’ manner, hahahahhahahaha
( I posted scores so perhaps the tards can understand in their own dilema)
stw
January 7th, 2009 at 12:41 am
That was brilliant, surfer! What a put-down. 10/10
Re-reading my post about constructive criticism of Jon, above, I really can’t see how anyone could take that as trolling, unless they can’t think straight. Certainly Jon didn’t think it was a troll, or he would have just deleted it and also the post that I referred to.
Have you noticed how D can’t even spell his own username consistently? Scrolling this thread, you will see that sometimes it’s spelled “Dreddnik” and sometimes “Dreddsnik”. Sorry, how do you spell cretin again? Or is it actually two people? Or the same one with schizophrenia?
I really liked my bit, where I said: “No more from me … Dredd out.” Sounds like a plan. Keep it that way.
He lost whether he replied or not, hehe.
I had no idea that English is not your first language; very well written and only a handful of typos, that we can all make. I certainly don’t know any Japanese, let alone write well in it.
btw how do you put bold text in these posts? Do you put HTML tags in to do this?
January 7th, 2009 at 8:01 am
yes, html tags, and thanks dasman, I have been speaking english for close to 20 years now, I am getting the hang of it.
peace, love, happiness and share the wealth.
January 7th, 2009 at 8:17 am
OK, guys, enough, eh?
Cheers! And thanks ….
January 7th, 2009 at 8:26 am
Sure, no problem, Jon. It wasn’t me who started these personal attacks…
January 7th, 2009 at 9:16 am
nor was it I, and yes, rest it shall, I think we all made our point.
January 14th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
The point seemed lost in the personalities, someones intention doubtless.