The arrogant monster called Bell
p2pnet news view Freedom | P2P:- Most of us, learning Bell Canada would manage the National “Do Not Call” List, expected it’d feel no compulsion in including itself on the list – even if doing so is, supposedly, against the law, now.
Part of me, however, kept believing Bell Canada desperately needed to rebuild its public image (to restore some of its fallen customer base and sell the company), and would do the honourable thing for its own sake – operate the DNCL the way Canadians clearly demanded.
Yeah, I know. What the hell was I thinking?!
For the last couple of months, I’ve been receiving calls from Bell’s contracted telemarketers, AIC Global. (The number shows up on the display as “Bell Canada AIC” 18777670751.) I’ve yet to actually pick it up and as a result, this number has continued to ring me every day, at least three times a day, for the last few months.
So, why don’t I just pick it up and tell them to FOAD?, you ask.
Well, of course, I considered this obvious option. But I have lots of experience with “unknown” callers, and I know doing this is often a mistake, and I’ll summarize why I think people shouldn’t just do this “off the top” (hopefully, at this stage of the game, I’m already preachin’ to the choir here) :
- Too many automated scams. You to pick it up, they emit the right tones over the line and later hijack your phone number for their own use, on your dime. This has been documented for a few years now (Google’s your friend).
- Too much automated data mining going on. You answer, your number is added to a database of active numbers and sold to other phone spammers, who then call you relentlessly.
- DNCL “circumvention technique”. Utilizing automated equipment, your spoken words are used to synthesize a false “record” of you “doing prior business” with someone, thereby getting around any protection the DNCL is (in theory) able to give you. (And, it’s apparently not an expensive process either.)
There are others, but I think the above three are incentive enough to think about it first. Nowadays, you really should know who’s on the other end if you’re going to pick up your phone.
Googling for what I could turn up…
Through a number of hits, I could see the calls are coming from Bell’s AIC Global, as the display shows. But I also discovered a great number of these calls, when answered, had no live person waiting to talk to you on the other end about 99% of the time!
Some experienced a “prolongued wait, followed by an eventual forward to a live person”, but most seemed to complain there was “no one there”, and that no forwarding occurred. A lesser percentage said they spoke to a live person and were removed from the list.
So, not only is Bell (the owner/operator of the DNCL) contracting people to call everyone (read “fuck the DNCL!”), but the contracted company is using automated dialing equipment to conduct a telemarketing campaign, the practice of which is illegal in Canada (check it out, I did before saying it).
Bell and AIC are also thumbing their noses at Michael Geist’s iOptOut.ca requests!
I know this first-hand since I’m enrolled at iOptOut, and Bell is on my list of companies that’ve already received notice to not call me.
This fact upsets me because I know how hard Michael worked to get iOptOut launched, and do the legal footwork to get assurance from Bell and the Government that these additional do-not-call requests would be honoured. (Michael, are you out there?)
But, the very company responsible for enforcing the DNCL (and adding iOptOut lists to it) obviously isn’t doing that.
Not surprising, as I said, coming from the same behemoth that is single-handedly “ruining it” for the Canadian Internet scene, playing God with a publicly-built resource, and shitting on our Constitution.
So, why go on about this matter?
Bell’s always done as it pleased. This, I know. Shouldn’t I just call AIC back, ask to be removed and “have it done”?
My answer is, “Have you read the DNCL??!!” (I have.) And it says all corporations have the responsibility to abide by it, and only had the initial 31 days after the passage of the DNCL as their “grace period”.
It also says that corporations that don’t adhere can face a fine of $15,000 PER INFRACTION!
Maybe you’re getting these calls, too? (He asks, knowingly!)
What if a whole bunch of people were involved? How much would these fines add up to?… 
Even if an “infraction” is defined as “any number of calls to any one residence”, that means, technically, one should be able fine Bell no less than $15,000, considering call records (which exist and do have to be surrendered when subpoenaed) are going to reflect a shitload of calls from AIC.
Would I do it for the money?…
A “fine”, as ordained, is a fine nevertheless. Sure would be nice, but, I sincerely doubt that money would actually be awarded to me anyway.
So, why do it?
I think there’s a bigger picture here, and this is just a piece of it.
The bottom line is, the DNCL is supposed to have you OPTED OUT ALREADY. (There should be no need of “asking to be removed”, as you “already have been”!)
To be truthful, I still haven’t decided what I’m going to do about this, but I’m definitely going to do something!
Canadians need to be aware of this. It’s hard enough to make something like a Do-Not-Call list work, we don’t need it deliberately sabotaged right at the source!
This arrogant monster called Bell needs to know it can’t take liberties with something it has supposedly pledged to serve Canada with, and turn it into another anti-competitive tool to further its own mission. And, they’re apparently calling businesses and cellphones, not just residences with landlines. (Bell does have things to peddle “all”, so I don’t have any trouble believing that.)
By contracting a 3rd party to carry out an automated (illegal) telemarketing campaign and calling people contrary to the DNCL, Bell has proven it is not worthy of the DNCL ownership, or our trust.
Indeed, no surprise there.
Devil’s Advocate – p2pnet
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January 14th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
DNC list doesn’t matter anyways. Global news bit reported that out of country marketers were buying the list from bell on the cheep to use as a do call list. Plus all the locals can use survey and prior business as ways around the list.
January 14th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
@ Devil’s Advocate
Would you mind if someone posts this on dslreports in bell forum? … credited to you of coarse
January 14th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Already done.
Cheers!
January 14th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
I spotted it in the “Canadian Broadband forum” already. This is how I found this news link.
I liked this complaint. Many have said it before and complained before.
@Devil’s Advocate, You should forward this complaint to IoptOut and Mr. Geist. You summed up what many have complained about for a long long time now.
January 14th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Michael already notified under his latest article “Copyright and the Obama Visit to Canada”
January 14th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
@ferengi
Michael Geist has apparently read the piece and will be contacting me.
January 14th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
“…out of country marketers were buying the list from bell…”
This I already knew, which is one of the other nails I’d like to see put in Bell’s coffin.
For the purposes of this first article, however, it is important to remember I’m talking about Bell giving its own telemarketing campaign “immunity” from what is now a law that Bell has been given the honour to help enforce.
And, Bell itself is NOT an out-of-country problem.
As said in older PetroCanada advertising, “It’s OURS!”
January 14th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
My thoughts on how to make the DNCL work, without giving out numbers away. Hash our numbers.
When a telemarketing company adds you to their list, they would need to run a check VIA the DNCL. However, because our numbers are hashed, they technically can’t see the number right? Well, they send the number to the DNCL, DNCL hashes it, checks for an existing hash, and sends back a response code, either yes or no.
All telemarketers would have to APPLY to use the DNCL, with a nominal fee (if it costs money to run, i sure as hell don’t want to pay for it). A telemarketer has a “Trusted” level with the DNCL, if they continously receive complaints of doing things that are not part of the exceptions of the DNCL, their “API” to check DNCL numbers becomes limited. For those companies that are caught with “automated dialers”, they are blocked from all networks in Canada until they apply to the DNCL, and get DNCL approved systems. I know this sounds like “Big brother”, or in some cases it seems like a “net neutrality” issue, heres where it differs.
If the DNCL receives complaints about a company calling them and harassing them, they should be allowed to block it at some point.
If someone is caughted DDOSing a website, his IP should be blacklisted, or be removed from the internet all-togethor.
If the DNCL has a company that they don’t like, they do not have the right to charge the consumer for access to these companies. Said consumer should be allowed to call them, and upon a request from the customer, they can call him back. No exceptions.
It’s not a perfect system, but at least it wouldent give out our numbers to those out-of-country callers, and help, dare i say those words…. Protest us…. from telemarketers.
January 14th, 2009 at 11:36 pm
@Adam:
Interesting idea.
But, if you apply this to the issue at hand, how would such a “hashing” protect you from the very people who store the true info, and have demonstrated they are both willing to sell it to others, and willing to use it themselves? (Bell OWNS the DNCL, and is currently guilty of breaching the DNC agreement, and is suspected of selling the list to others.)
January 15th, 2009 at 2:11 am
MY horror story that almost cost me my life
Seems at beginning of December after i overpaid a little ( about 10 extra on my phone) bell canada decided to cut off the dial tone
and ive been unable to get them to restore the service , to add insult to injury i tried to migrate then to another provider teksavvy for phone use and was told they are saying that bell hasn’t deactivated the line.
Well heres how this almost cost me my life
a few days after that was new years and i went out and was brutally attacked and bled almost 1000 feet and yes a massive trail of blood proved that the following day. Due to not having phone service i paid for and because of the games bell canada plays all i could think of doing was emailing for help to my ISP which didn’t send that help for about 6-7 hrs, i passed out and all the blood every where can attest
i could have bled to death before that help arrived and you bet im pissed off.
THESE FUCKERS NEED A LESSON, and im TIRED A BEING THE ABUSE MAN.
P.S. while oddly i have net access which means somehow while bell has deactivated my dial tone i have effectively a FREE DRY LOOP, and im not paying for that so we have a breach of contract, which they are refusing to end so i can get a new phone provider.
I AINT PAYING THEM SACKS A SHIT NO MORE MONEY EVER AGAIN.
OH and hows this affect p2pnet i was in talks to advertise a business i help and would have been into adverting with John except he requires a little phone conversation which i doubt being sciatic nerve pinched with a broken nose standing in -20 weather i can handle to get him some add money.
SO FUCK BELL CANADA ANYWAY YOU CAN BOYS N GIRLS THEY DESERVE IT.
January 15th, 2009 at 4:11 am
@Chronos (or anyone who read his trash above)
Chronos, in another “Story” you posted on DSLreports you stated you had called to cancel your phone service instead of Bell cutting your line off for no reason. Prior to that you posted another “Story” on dslreports similar to this one where Bell cut off your line.
In the “story” on DSLreports, you stated you left a massive blood trail for 300-feet from being attacked by guys with knives that you faught off with you elite “fighting skills”.
In this “Story” you left a massive blood trail of 1000-feet (over 1/4 of a kilometer).
That broken nose must has left a massive blood trail…. or were you stabbed in an artery?
Shall I go on pointing out the “massive” discrepancies in your stories?
Should I go into the “6-7″ hour time frame that you apparently sent the Email by the time help arrived and the time you posted in the DSLreports forum?
Shall i really point all this out to everyone reading all this?
Please adjust your story then contact a lawyer. Let us know how this turns out next week since your are eligible for legal aid and can sue for this.
or.. I know… it will be a different story on why you can’t get legal-aid (AGAIN!), even though you’re on disability/welfare.
Why did you go ruin a perfectly good article here with your colorful BS story that keeps changing every time?
Anyhow, as chronos would say, “BOYS N GIRLS this guy posts a fantastic story about once a month (seriously) when he is drunk or when his meds kick in and makes em all strange like this”.
Chronos, please read Jon’s story on addiction. It makes you stuff you know…
Note to Jon, if you remove my post, at least have the decency to remove his as off topic as well. Or tell him to write his story and put his name on it for you to print and for Bell to sue him instead of you. At least this way when he repeats his stories, he will have a reference he can refer to on your site so they don’t always change every week or so.
is there a way to represent mooning this guy in ascii?
(_º_)
Best I can do.
January 15th, 2009 at 4:25 am
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21677971-billing-issue-TSI-you-have-53-you-should-not
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21608169-bell-cut-my-phone-off-or-is-there-an-outage
There are a few more on DSLreports, but most of his crazed topics get deleted or locked and heavily moderated due to over-fabrication.
January 15th, 2009 at 6:23 am
@Devil’s Advocate
Good argument. The way i would do it is have a board of advisors, have people such as Michael Geist, Charlie Angus, and others who have no history of corruption, ranging from private to public figures, to be the ones who come up with the unique hash code, and to be the only people that will ever know the hash codes (Yes, codes, as in they would change).
Of course, if bell canada obtained the codes to unhash the numbers, there would be steps taken to find which member. At that point, Bell would also be liable for alot more, as it would have been a government committee they would have stolen information from
January 15th, 2009 at 8:11 am
@ ah sheez:
I walk a really thin line on p2pnet. There are several posters I wish would go away. But although I delete spam regularly throughout the day, I don’t moderate as such. Some comments leave me seriously wondering about the mental competence of the posters, but I’m pretty sure most readers are smart enough to know the difference between real and unreal.
Cheers! And thanks …
January 15th, 2009 at 8:51 am
I love the title and dugg this for the title alone
January 15th, 2009 at 9:45 am
@ Adam:
“The way i would do it is have … people … who have no history of corruption…”
D’ja see what’s wrong with your idea already?
: )
January 15th, 2009 at 11:13 am
about chronoss
i concur with “ah sheez more BS” and like to add, there are many free services that can help you in which ever area you’re in … please go see them and stop this merry go around
@bell
i agree with Adam and i’d like to add Bell has become one of the most corrupt organizations going.
CAIP and protest haven’t stopped them, CRTC hasn’t stopped them, Michael Geist or Charlie Angus either, 2 class action suits [1 in Ontario and 1 in Quebec] i think are still ongoing, they keep throttling and using DPI, Privacy Commissioner is digging into them, Haven’t gotten rid of bad Indian support, still keep overbiling, changing users profiles without permission to higher priced ones or wrong ones, won’t get service PPL out to fix problems readily, if they finally do then it’s not done right the first time. Users are left with calling for months on end while getting the royal run around.
So what makes you think they are any different for DNCL?
As i see it there is no other options besides massive protests at every Bell building and taking the suckers to court for every infraction. Even if it’s small claims court. A guy on dslreports got it right: bill the Bell suckers for your lost time, effort, any problems and anything else, then take ‘em to small claims court if they don’t pay up and solve all problems.
What else you going to do? Cancel your account and go to next rip-off like Rogers, Telus, Verizon which is ore of the same?
Join Teksavvy but you still lost unlimited, still under DPI, and whatever else. And only if Bell didn’t blacklist you. Go to Mountain cable, Acanac and others but now the prices have gone up and no more unlimited?
Canada has become the third world country in internet access for the average user and most of all the advanced users. What really digs under PPL’s skins is Bell and others are destroying our privacy, selling our phone info to their spamming business buddies and doing everything to undermine our well being. Instead of improving our internet and phone services Bell has taken upon it’s self to cut back our services and nickel and dime us to death.
When will we as Canadians get off our butts and do something about it?
January 15th, 2009 at 11:15 am
In live in the same town as chronoss so I went by his address to check on this trail of blood and guess what it wasn’t there. Surprise- surprise , ah sheez, you are not the only one noticing the trail of the absurd from the twilight zone episode this guy lives in.
January 15th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Some of you guys might as well go start a Facebook group, “Application to Ban CHRoNoss from the Internet”, as it might be more constructive than wasting valuable p2pnet space we could be using to bitch about the topics at hand?!
: )
January 15th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
^^ Seconded. Three times.
Cheers!
January 15th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
I generally don’t pay too much attention to the Mainstream Media, but here’s something I didn’t catch until now, which might shed some light on how some are getting hold of the DNCL, here and abroad…
http://www.globaltv.com/globaltv/ontario/video/index.html
Click on “NEWS HOUR”, then “January 13″, and drag the little scroller under the video window to about the 3:30 mark.
January 15th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
…and it looks like Global followed up with another report (including the CRTC’s comments, some maddening), the next day…
http://www.globaltv.com/globaltv/ontario/video/index.html
Click NEWS HOUR, then “January 15″, and skip to the 13:10 mark.
January 15th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
One additional comment I have to make on the Global News reports:
There was not 1 mention of BELL!
Any statements they made regarding “who runs the DNCL” only mentioned the CRTC.
I find that “interesting”.
January 16th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Sorry, that News Hour followup was on January 14th (not 15th, as I posted earlier).
January 16th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Devil’s Advocate and Jon
A good idea actually, ban chronoss from the Internet.
But chronoss is not doing as much harm to the Internet as RIAA and MPAA are doing. If spammers are not admitted to the Internet, RIAA and MPAA should not be admitted to the Internet by any of the telecom carriers. After all, RIAA, MPAA, BSA and the like are harming everyone – customers, providers, Internet companies – and they should not be admitted to the Internet at all. I won’t talk about Mediasentry, BayTSP and the like who are involved in DOS attacks.
But some companies like Level 3 are trying to make a buck here and there and are providing bandwidth to fucktards like RIAA and MPAA.
January 16th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
WTF was that?!?
>
January 17th, 2009 at 7:42 am
@ Devil’s …
that was either a brain fart from RW “January 16th, 2009 at 2:52 pm” or he switched 3 subjects without pause
Back to topic: We must pressure Bell to play nice before they kill off our net, while we’re at it get all our resources back AND upgrade network for free!
- i propose ongoing protests at all their main offices
- if that doesn’t seem to work then fill their main office lobbies with 1000 ppl each asking to see kevin crull or CEO till we get what we need and want
January 17th, 2009 at 11:22 am
I like the idea of “rallying the troops”.
I encourage everyone with an interest in such an action to do everything they can to first spread this particular issue around, both verbally and on the Internet. The only way anything’s going to happen is to unite enough people of the same sentiment.
The reason I think the particular issue, the DNCL operator ignoring the rules and the irresponsible handling of over 5 million phone numbers, should be centered on is because it is what’s current, and seems to be a very “black and white” story that is “court-ready”. We also have the “added bonus” of them disregarding the iOptOut end of things, which, as we’re now seeing, is not something Michael Geist is very happy about.
If we can get compliance on just 1 scandal, we’ll have more leverage to deal with some of the others that have been getting inappropriately put to sleep by the CRTC and our Government. That 3-way “protection racket” has been our problem all along, and needs to have a hole put in it.
January 19th, 2009 at 9:01 am
I was harassed by Bell, and asked them 7 times (I kept a log) to be removed from their lists. Sadly enough, withing 4 hours of my last complaint, I was contacted by a Bell telemarketer. After going up the food chain a bit, I was told that “Bell adheres to the Canadian Marketing Association DNCL” found here:
http://www.the-cma.org/
and click on “CMA do not contact me”, etc.
and….. it actually worked. In fact my calls from telemarketers dropped dramatically after the original surge (I assume that since they know you are opting out that every member tries to contact you first).
No Bell calls, a huge reduction in Bell junk mail etc. – and as such fewer reminders that this irritating entity still exists.
And to boot, I’m now Bell free (no Bell DSL, phone, satellite, cellphone, etc.) – which makes me feel even better.
January 19th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
The CMA thing was essentially replaced by the DNCL.
And, ALL telemarketers (whether registered with the CMA or not) are, supposedly, responsible to comply with the DNCL, or face fines between $1,500 and $15,000 per infraction.
I registered with the CMA twice in a 1-1/2 year period.
None of the calls stopped.
CMA = Canadian Marketing Association = An organization with a vested interest in keeping telemarketing alive.
January 24th, 2009 at 3:31 am
I complained to scotiabank about being telemarketed long after registering with ioptout. Got a call from thr presidents office informing me they do not honour third party sites like ioptout. The rep demanded to know when I registered with Scotia, and didn’t see anything wrong with them calling me as I had not contacted them directly. The rep claimed they were unaware of the CRTC letter to the CBA that made the Star and is on Geist’s site, sayingthte CRTC considered requests through ioptout valid.