Do Not Call List: major Canadian disaster
p2pnet news view | Advertising:- “Federal Industry Minister Tony Clement says he has been assured of strong action by the CRTC to stop abuse of the do-not- call list.”
That’s the intro to a Canadian Press story headed up ‘Registrants say they were called by scam artists’.
Surely not!
After all, Bell Canada is in charge of operating the list, and it would never allow such a thing!
That it’s under heavy fire from its own users for improperly trying to throttle their traffic, and that the same ‘bandwidth management’ scheme also seriously hinders an exciting National film board of Canada innovation are separate issues .
Still allowed to bug people
Canadian ‘Do Not Call’ starts in September, said a p2pnet headline at the beginning of August, 2008.
Great! No more unwanted, unsolicitedmarketing calls!
In September, Do not call do-not-call, said a follow-up and two months later, Do Not Call List: total waste of time.
While all this was going on, Ottawa law professor Michael Geist had initiated his own iOpt Out, noting a, “wide range of organizations (registered charities, business with prior relationships, political parties, survey companies, and newspapers).”
Exempted organizations was still allowed to bug people, “despite the inclusion of the number in the do-not-call registry,” he said, also stating, “However, organizations must remove numbers from their lists if specifically requested to do so.”
Once in a while, you’d read about another angry ‘Do Not Call’ subscriber getting calls, but the furor had largely died down.
Until a couple of weeks back, p2pnet’s Devil’s Advocate wrote The arrogant monster called Bell in which he said »»»
Most of us, learning Bell Canada would manage the National Do Not Call List, expected it`d feel no compulsion in including itself on the list – even if doing so is, supposedly, against the law, now.
Part of me, however, kept believing Bell Canada desperately needed to rebuild its public image (to restore some of its fallen customer base and sell the company), and would do the honourable thing for its own sake – operate the DNCL the way Canadians clearly demanded.Yeah, I know. What the hell was I thinking?!
Bell Canada AIC 18777670751
Devil’s Advocate goes on:
“For the last couple of months, I`ve been receiving calls from Bell’s contracted telemarketers, AIC Global. (The number shows up on the display as ‘Bell Canada AIC’ 18777670751.) I’ve yet to actually pick it up and as a result, this number has continued to ring me every day, at least three times a day, for the last few months.”
But how can this be ?! Isn’t Bell itself in charge of the Do Not Call list?
The same day Devil’s Advocate cited Bell Canada as one of the worst offenders, CTV ran a story saying “many Canadians who signed up are feeling duped because they`re receiving more telemarketing calls than ever before”.
We went on »»»
And that, it says, is because the list, may have gotten into the wrong hands.
To access the list, a telemarketer simply has to go to the National Do Not Call List website, enter the appropriate information and pay a small fee, it says, going on:
The problem is, anyone can pose as a telemarketer and obtain the list. If they`re willing to break the rules, they could then call the numbers, which are all recent. And if that list makes its way to a telemarketer outside Canada, the CRTC does not have the jurisdiction to stop them from calling Canadian numbers.
Eleanor Friedland, vice-president of the Consumers Council of Canada, said the situation is `now worse than it was before`.
According to the CRTC, the DNCL registry, has been a success and that an increase in unwanted calls cannot be absolutely attributed to the registry, says CTV, quoting the commission`s Lynne Fancy as saying it`s seeing, positive feedback from Canadians, that they have actually seen a reduction in the number of calls.
In terms of an increase of calls . . . telemarketers can obtain calling lists from a wide variety of different sources, and these sources are unrelated to either the CRTC or the national do-not-call list, she added.
Now, “Consumers Association of Canada president Bruce Cran said his organization has been inundated with complaints from people who say they were called by scam artists after placing their numbers on the registry,” says the CP story mentioned in the intro, going on:.
“The trouble is, lists from the registry can be purchased online from the CRTC for a minimal fee.
“The idea was to provide telemarketers with lists of people they couldn’t call, not to provide criminals with the names and numbers of intended victims.”
But, “Upon learning that the list could be acquired and used illegally, I spoke to the chair of the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, who has assured me it is taking these complaints very seriously,” the story has Clements saying.
“It is the intent of the CRTC to aggressively pursue anyone abusing the use of the do-not-call list; I wholly support that approach,” he added.
Scotiabank and iOptout
Meanwhile, “I complained to Scotiabank about being telemarketed long after registering with iOptout,” says a p2pnet Reader’s Write today, continuing »»»
Got a call from thr presidents office informing me they do not honour third party sites like iOptout.
The rep demanded to know when I registered with Scotia, and didn`t see anything wrong with them calling me as I had not contacted them directly.
The rep claimed they were unaware of the CRTC letter to the CBA that made the Star and is on Geist`s site, saying the CRTC considered requests through iOptout valid.
Definitely stay tuned.
(Thanks, Karen)
Jon Newton – p2pnet
January , 2009
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January 24th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
some of us caught those posts
well then what are the solutions?
let dysfunctional CRTC, Bell and other related parties handle it?
complaints to the above which have not done much?
protests?
too bad this site doesn’t want to let comprehensive answers be posted, let alone discussions that may provide actual solutions
January 24th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
^^ New policy.
When we start getting into Zionists, gangs, secret government plots, etc, etc, the comments go.
As always, genuine âcomprehensive answersâ (and even incomprehensible ones) will remain, though.
Cheers!
January 24th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
“secret government plots”
Does this mean you will delete posts/articles of the (not so) secret NSA plots of wiretapping american reporters that was released on http://www.EFF.org this week?
January 24th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
if we can not identify the root of the problems, their mandates, how they operate and even their hidden agendas we can not move forward and qualify any solution what so ever
basics of any conflict: know thy enemy, Tsun Zu
to provide solutions without meaning and backed up by body of proof is pissin’ in the wind at best and getting slapped from left field at worst
so either you’re providing a site only for satire and poking fun at corporations and regurgitating news from other sources or let’s down and dirty and solve this … i thought this is what reporting is really all about … taking the story to it’s conclusions no matter where it may lead
this is not some game being played for laughs … the opposition is deadly serious and has been since day one .. as you have yourself found out with your court cases
what’s in the balance is our minds, kids minds, everyone’s well being and any possible future
for starters can you tell me who’s behind DNCL, who’s behind them, how deep does it go and who are the originators?
January 24th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
@ the person above – IMO there is nothing wrong with p2pnet or the way it is run.
If you do not like it start your own site, or you are free to go somewhere else, which might be best.
January 24th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
I caught that post of our favorite little diliusional knome chronoss as well. Nothing on tv so leave the wacko and his sidekick on for my entertainment please.
January 24th, 2009 at 11:46 pm
A possible solution might be in uniting a large number of the angry people who genuinely want to see a change.
Get the internet vices going. Spread it around.
Consider the throttling story.
Who knows if there would have even been a hearing if it weren’t for the voices gathered over the internet.
So, it wasn’t a complete success, but consider it a “dry run”.
If you start a movement, and enough people participate, things can happen.
January 25th, 2009 at 3:18 am
there WAS nothing wrong with p2pnet or the it is run … till posts that dug into situations further than what Jon would like started popping up … which is exactly what situations call for since the enemy has upped the ante
i said “comprehensive” and not Chronoss posts
@ Devil’s Advocate
Bell and others laugh protests off, and if not they come from another direction to do exactly the same thing under a different name, DPI is still up and spying, throttling and caps are still up, prices have risen and no real backlash from users, Rogers prices went up without opposition, plans to block content are on schedule, RIAA still up to it’s old tricks, websites opposing Bell and others go up / then down or left behind, many sites that go up are forced to smooth over their attitude or be attacked by powers that be [is this what's happening with P2Pnet?], Bell is still double billing or wrongfully billing,
same old … same old
Nothing has changed and will not change till Canadians are told the real story.
so my questions still stand: who has the guts or the know how to answer fully who’s behind DNCL?
who are the PPL who actually run this deceptive game, how, where and why?
once you get off your ass, do some digging and start answering these with real answers then i and many others can show you how to take on the establishment and win
January 25th, 2009 at 11:58 am
How come youâve stopped signing your name?
Anyhow, personally Iâm not interested in deep, dark conspiracy theories involving aliens, secret societies and Tom Cruise-ish ideas. And since p2pnet is a personal site â¦â¦
âBell and others laugh protests offâ
They used to be able to. But they canât do it any more. Look around.
It wasnât coincidence that the lamescream media picked the DNCL farce up again after months of ignoring it. It was DAâs post and reactions which followed it.
The DNCL story is emerging slowly but surely and Iâll continue to post on it as it does.
And if you believe Bell will get away with traffic throttling and the use of DPI, think again – and it wonât be because of anything George W. Harper and his merry crew of sycophants do.
Meanwhile, Iâm still just one guy and I do the best I can with what I have. If you donât like it, as Paulus suggested, start your own site and do better. And when you do, Iâll be the first to support you.
Cheers!
January 25th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
I’m so glad I held back on that DNCL to see how effective it would be. I get enough spam calls as it is, don’t need more. I say the laws governing this kind of stuff need to be much much harsher (the few ineffectual ones we have that is), and the day that happens we need to make an example of the worst and most well known offender. No guarantee that it would work of course but we can hope that it just might make the rest of the offenders out there pause and reflect whether they really want to continue on the course they’ve plotted, or look at maybe pursuing other alternatives (no clue what those might be, anyone?).
PS: Unable to post on another article. Comment filters/blocking?
January 25th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
the solution is to disconnect your landline and use the cell network, combined with voip for long distance, exclusively for your phone needs. this works on two levels:
(1): if the phone companies see a mass movement away from landline phone subscriptions they’ll eventually take steps to resolve the problem. do bell, rogers and telus really understand any language other than the threat of lost profit?
(2): where i live, cells and landlines are the same price give or take a few bucks. i’ve had my cell connected for three years and i haven’t received a single telemarketing call. zero. zilch.
this is both a functional solution and a path to change. do it!
January 25th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
If you have a cell, use Bell call forwarding (*72) on your land line and forward your calls to the CRTC #.
Tell your friends/family what you’ve done and tell them to use your cell between 8-am and 8-pm
Let the CRTC deal with it.
January 25th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
@dfghkdgdghka…
“the solution is to disconnect your landline and use the cell network, combined with voip for long distance…”
Those using these services that have also registered them with the DNCL have also started to complain of getting spam calls as well.
The problem’s in the DNCL being made available by the CRTC to marketers willing to pay, intended as a means for them to update their own lists. But, anyone at all (overseas included) can pose as a “marketer”, pay the fee, and acquire a list of active 500,000+ names, which has great value for the scammers.
January 25th, 2009 at 5:43 pm
@ IratePirate:
“Unable to post on another article. Comment filters/blocking?”
Does it have two or more links? If so, Akismet may have blocked it, although I don’t see anything in the spam list.
Cheers!
January 25th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
yup your spam thing caught my post as well because it had a few links in it.
But I’m aware of the spam thing so all is good.
January 25th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
Zero links. One part is kinda longish, maybe there is a keyword or a length issue? Thanks for replying. Sorry to go off topic re: this story, hope it isn’t an issue.
January 25th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
Hi all:
Iâve just done something Iâve only done a couple of times since I started p2pnet: Iâve closed down a thread. Iâm doing that because itâs developing into a slanging match and Iâll continue to delete other posts in the same vein.
âThank you Jon for letting us know you watch IP addresses or formats of posts or bothâ
Thatâs Hook. I donât, and canât, see IP addresses, and never have being able to. I have no idea what he means by formats and I have no way of knowing who any given poster is, unless he or she tells me. I immediately recognized him because of style and content.
I hate doing this, I really do, but at the end of the day, Iâm the editor and this is an editorial decision.
Cheers!
Jon
January 26th, 2009 at 3:15 am
“Those using these services that have also registered them with the DNCL have also started to complain of getting spam calls as well.”
telemarketers won’t call cell phones (on purpose) because it costs them more than it’s worth to do it. if you get a “spam” call on your cell phone, it’s either because you filled out the form wrong (put cell for home for example) or because it’s actually a survey. if you filled out the form wrong, which is actually probably the case for the vast majority of people that have seen their cell spam go up, it’s hard to have any sympathy at all.
“The problemâs in the DNCL being made available by the CRTC to marketers willing to pay, intended as a means for them to update their own lists. But, anyone at all (overseas included) can pose as a âmarketerâ, pay the fee, and acquire a list of active 500,000+ names, which has great value for the scammers.”
right, and that was obvious. obviously, the CRTC needs to sell the list to telemarketers otherwise the telemarketers won’t know not to call. it’s astonishingly mind-boggling how amazingly idiotic the outrage over this list is; how anybody could have ever expected this to work is confounding. everybody who signed up for the list should obviously
(1): curse themselves for being naive and stupid.
(2): immediately change their phone number.
when they change their phone number, they should also disconnect their landline and they should not blame the crtc – it is their own damn fault and they deserve what they get.
i’ve said this in a thousand different forums – if you’re too damn stupid to disconnect your phone line and actually enjoy paying for a device that in the modern era has almost no other purpose than to harass you then you deserve what you get. throw away the device or stop bitching about it!
January 26th, 2009 at 8:54 am
It’s nice to know you have an editorial ‘line’ people shouldn’t cross Jon.
January 26th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
I do not appreciate my reply being deleted. Just because it’s different than yours it doesn’t mean it’s cat litter. How would you like it if your internet deleted your emails? I do not appreciate it when you play favoritism to guys. That’s sexist and I’m going to tell all my friends. I took the little time that I have in my day and took the effort to reply making sure to keep it clean. You made my daughter cry. I’m done with this blog and I’m telling everyone I know what kind of a sexist prick you are.
Jenny
January 26th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
@ Jenny:
What was your comment? I don’t remember your name or deleting anything from ‘Jenny’. Please either re-post it or send it to me at p2pnet @ shaw dot ca.
Cheers! And thanks …
January 26th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
it’ not wordpress, it’s time lag from wifi to bell connection, dpi slows or checks code and kicks it, probably due to p 2 p being mentioned, try number 10
January 26th, 2009 at 8:23 pm
maybe Bell throttled your post Jenny, or some telemarketer was calling in as your dsl was going out. or maybe you didn’t realize your post was NOT there once you clicked on submit comment and you probably could have tried again, after removing the url link embedded in your reply…
did u see the submit comment button? at the bottom of the page? did you push it? before or after writing your reply?
January 27th, 2009 at 2:18 am
part 2
trying from other isp’s its wordpress not updating posts to page when using special or non standard characters, catches post and dumps it as spam or whatever, also when post is longer than this typing box, pasting text and links into this box does same, this is try 36
January 27th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
@RW:
1) “telemarketers wonât call cell phones…”
Telemarketers and various scammers have already started calling cellphones, thanks to computer software, the internet, and VoIP services, and thanks to a hole in the way it all works, they can now do it virtually free of charge.
As cellphones become the norm, do you really think telemarketing calls are gonna just go away (that kind of thinking would be “too damn stupid”). Geez, text messaging has been abused by every form of business since it was introduced.
It’s the nature of the marketer to saturate EVERY form of media.
If you’re true to your word, you should be tossing your cellphone sometime in the near future, for soon, the calls will begin and keep on coming after that.
2) “iâve said this in a thousand different forums – if youâre too damn stupid to disconnect your phone line and actually enjoy paying for a device that in the modern era has almost no other purpose than to harass you then you deserve what you get. throw away the device or stop bitching about it!”
I have a door, too.
One that becomes a similar “annoyance” due to unwanted visitors.
Under your kind of thinking, I guess I should just MOVE OUT?!?
Anyone that thinks they should just “admit defeat” to ANY form of unwanted approach, particularly when it means disconnecting something that still bears importance, such as a telephone, is the one that’s not thinking straight.
People have the right to use what they want and pay for, and have every right to expect to use it the way they want.