Open letter to Tony Clements: DNCL farce
p2pnet news view Freedom | P2P:- Spurred on by media enquiries, federal industry minister Tony Clements has now expressed serious concerns over the Do Not Call List debacle.
However, the mainstream media and those-who-ought-to-be-paying-attention are still ignoring the fact that Bell ‘Not Sympatico‘ Canada, who’s operating the DNCL under the generous auspices of the CRTC (Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission), is itself apparently a principal abuser of the list.
Now, p2pnet’s Devil’s Advocate, who recently set the cat amongst the pigeons with his The arrogant monster called Bell post,decided that rather than ask Clements if he’s sincere in his concern, and if he’s finally getting it, he’d write him an open letter.
But first …
Not considered telemarketing calls
When the DNCL officially went online in September last year, Canadians can register up to three phone numbers on the national Don’t Call List, “set up to theoretically prevent those infuriating marketing calls,” said p2pnet.
But still free to call you whenever they feel like it are:
- Registered charities seeking donations
- Newspapers looking for subscriptions
- Political parties and their candidates, and
- Companies with whom you have an existing commercial relationship; for example, if you have done business with a company in the previous 18 months, it can call you.
And, “You will continue to receive calls from organizations conducting market research, polls or surveys even though you are registered on the National DNCL,” admitted the FAQ. “These are not considered telemarketing calls because they are not selling a product or service, or requesting donations.”
Oh. That’s OK, then.
But it isn’t. And Clements is now on record, having told the Globe and Mail, “An abuse of the do-not-call list is unconscionable, not to mention illegal, and I sympathize with those Canadians who are being harassed by unscrupulous telemarketers.”
Here’s the letter from Devil’s Advocate »»»
Dear Mr. Clement,
Your recent statements addressing the DNCL failure have caught my attention. I am assuming that you are “The Man” to talk to on this one as a result.
Indeed, many Canadians are more than just thoroughly let down about the DNCL, they’re feeling completely betrayed.
You are obviously aware of the reasons, so I won’t go into a breakdown of them here.
What I really do want to discuss concerns the conduct of the DNCL operator itself, Bell Canada.
Now, I’ll be honest …
When it was announced that Bell would be holding the DNC list, I thought it was a very inappropriate choice.
Bell has too many business interests that obviously conflict with their ability to manage the DNCL honestly, let alone, abide by the rules itself.
It’ll be necessary to give you some background. Please bear with me…
Before the launch of the DNCL, it was made known that there would be a huge number of exempted parties in the plan. This took many aback. But when the well-known lawyer Michael Geist decided to created a service (iOptOut.ca) to allow everyone to make the mandatory “request” to all the exempted much easier, Canadians felt they had a better chance at sanity.
As iOptOut was emerging, there was the expected objection from the marketers and the CMA, but there was also huge resistance from Bell, which should have been a much bigger cause for concern that it seemed to be.
Dr Geist had to do quite a bit of footwork to get the CRTC to see that his site was simply a mechanism for others to accomplish what they were legally entitled to do anyway. And, the CRTC did mandate its acceptance, instructing Bell to honour it. I believe legal papers were signed over this.
So, the DNCL, and iOptOut both launched simultaneously last September.
Millions FLOCKED to these sites, their heavy numbers crashing the servers of both sites. (A loud testament to how much the people wanted this, I would think!) If you were to ask, the majority of the people would say that having iOptOut requests honoured is what sealed the deal for them to decide to sign on to the DNCL.
Which brings us to the present…
Everything’s in place now, over 6 millions numbers are registered (even some VoIP, and some cell), people are getting more unwanted calls than ever, and the list itself is being freely leaked to all, and for a pittance of a fee!
Enough background – now comes the part I really want you to address…
Many of the unwanted calls people are getting are coming from “Bell Canada AIC – 18777670751″.
And, the majority of the time anyone tries to pick up the call from them, there’s nothing but dead air.
(So you don’t even get the opportunity to make the “don’t call me again” request.)
Many have requested to be removed (again and again), to no avail.
Many receiving these calls already have Bell on their iOptOut list.
Me? They’ve been ringing my phone at least 3 times a day for over 2 months at this point!
But, even that’s not exactly what I want to point out…
- The use of autodialing equipment to conduct a telemarketing campaign is still ILLEGAL in this country, isn’t it? It certainly states this on the CRTC site itself. It also makes particular reference to it being an outright offense when there’s a blatant shortage of live bodies available to cover the volume of dialing being performed. Dead air space is strictly forbidden, and there is supposed to be someone on the other end within a certain amount of seconds after the call is picked up (there isn’t). Bell is using AIC, therefore Bell is the contracting party, and therefore, responsible for breaking the law.
- Bell is now our DNCL operator, and yet feels no compulsion to even try to cooperate with public sentiment, or the rules. Bell is the DNCL operator and, therefore, knows the rules. There is no excuse.
- Bell is completely ignoring iOptOut anyway, directly in conflict with a CRTC ordinance. Bell agreed to this ordinance, Bell is blatantly breaking the law.
- Didn’t Bell supply the system (or at least some portion of it) that we now know to be allowing all the scammers to have our numbers, now nicely sorted for them by area code, I might add?
- Are Canadians supposed to believe they have no right to deny Bell further ownership of the DNCL under the circumstances? And, haven’t the rights to any circulation of those numbers been purchased by the users (ironically, mostly from Bell)?!
I’ll tell you right now, I’ve got more to say, but I think this query’s long enough.
Hopefully, you can offer some feedback.
Thanks in advance!
Sincerely,
Devil’s Advocate
Having responded with impressive alacrity to an offline media reporter, will Clements wil now do the same for Devil’s Advocate?
Stay tuned.
p2pnet – Marketing ‘Don’t Call List’ opens today, September 30, 2008
Globe and Mail – Clement blasts do-not-call scammers, January 26, 2009
Not Sympatico – p2pnet traffic shaping digest, April 19, 2008
arrogant monster – The arrogant monster called Bell, January 14, 2009
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January 27th, 2009 at 11:01 am
#1 is interesting, well before the DNCL our phone got numerous dead-air calls. Someone is definatly autodiling (or multidialing and failing to pick up or register our pickup)
January 28th, 2009 at 12:56 am
According to an email received today from the do not call registry, making a complaint through the do not call site about companies who called after being informed not to through ioptout.ca is appropriates, using the “The company would not accept my
request to be taken off their calling list” option.
So yes, complaining to the Bell run registry about Bell itself is quite appropriate. I am confident swift strong action will be taken. Perhaps Bell will have itself disconnect its own phone lines.
January 28th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
@Jamie..
I wish I could share your confidence about Bell taking “swift strong action” against itself. (?)
You will, of course, post back to tell us what answer you may get in return.
Regardless, one of my points throughout this is that we’re going through this exercise in the first place, when we shouldn’t be. I wouldn’t be surprised if Bell had no real intentions of honouring iOptOut in the first place (they certainly put up a fight against it before it became “law”).
There seem to be some who have contacted Bell directly and have, indeed been removed from their call list, while there seem to be a shitload that went that route and are still getting the calls.
January 31st, 2009 at 1:03 am
Spoke with the CRTC today.
They inform me Geist is correct that ioptout request are valid. But the only way to lodge a complaint is through the do not call registry site. Any action apparently depends on the number of complaints lodged against a company. SO even though I have an email, definitively declaring a company will not honour ioptout do not call requests, there is no way to use that to have action taken unless others are complaining about getting calls too. I guess the privacy commissioner would be the only other option.
January 31st, 2009 at 3:51 pm
@Jamie…
Yes, the CRTC *says* iOptOut requests are honoured.
But, Bell is obviously NOT.
This, to me, is evidence that “Bell Methodology” is at work again – simply ignore the agreement, while sneakily getting their legal team to work on a “challenge”, to be filed when the whole thing reaches the point of public outrage.
The CRTC complaint process for the DNCL (and everything else, really) is a complete JOKE.
They narrow it to giving you only a web form, which doesn’t allow any individual comment, as it directs you to resign yourself to a predetermined “multiple choice” format. In the end, there’s no opportunity to express your anger, and the complaint carries no actual “weight” (whether by itself, or grouped with all others like it).
On a side note:
Notice the media hasn’t followed up on this stuff since the original Global and CTV reports.
More proof the protection racket is still functioning as designed.
(Tony Clement has yet to acknowledge my letter either.)
No surprise.
: (
February 1st, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Be sure to encourage NDP critic Glen Thibeault and Lib critic Dan McTeague to take the issue up with Mr Clement too.
February 1st, 2009 at 7:46 pm
@Jamie…
(RE: G. Thibeault & D McTeague)
I think that’s not a bad idea!!
Consider it done.
And, I think I’ll send them a link to the p2pnet post “Open Letter to Tony Clement”, just to let them know people are interested in the answer.
February 4th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Was thinking about registering a URL and came across this site http://www.donotcall.ca/ , somewhat of a competitor to ioptout.
Its an interesting idea, keeping “proof’ that you told someone not to call. The problem being, having proof wont get you anywhere when there is no one willing to do anything about it. If the legislation allowed for seeking civil penalties from violators it would be a different story.
February 9th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
@Jamie (and all)…
The following is a response I got from McTeague’s office:
Dear Sir/Madam,
Thank you for your email. To ensure a timely response, could you kindly provide our office with your home address, postal code and home phone number? Due to the volume of emails that we receive, we can only respond to emails from our constituents. If you do not live in the Pickering Scarborough East riding you can find your M.P. by postal code through the following website: http://www.parl.gc.ca
Thank you for your co-operation.
Regards,
Office of the Hon. Dan McTeague, P.C., M.P.
(No, I don’t live in that riding.)
Too fuckin’ much!
February 27th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
The DNCL complaints site has a “click here if none of these apply” option that can be filled in. It provides a simple free-form text field., which I’m Alternatively you can call the DNCL phone number and register your complaint by phone (1-866-580-DNCL).
PS I work for Bell, and worked on the DNCL project. There’s no conspiracy. Bell is just a big company. And Bell has nothing to do with assessing the complaints. CRTC is completely responsible for that. Keep in mind that the legislation states that companies can call you if you have an existing relationship with them. Even so though there are rules of engagement. I suggest you file your complaint and see what happens. Many don’t know this but in the states AT&T was one of the first fined, and they hosted the list (http://advertising.about.com/b/2003/11/04/att-violates-its-own-do-not-call-list.htm).
Take care.
February 28th, 2009 at 9:01 am
The DNCL complaints site has a “click here if none of these apply” option that can be filled in. It provides a simple free-form text field., which I’m sure you could enter much of the information you want into. Alternatively you can call the DNCL phone number and register your complaint by phone (1-866-580-DNCL).
PS I work for Bell, and worked on the DNCL project. There’s no conspiracy. Bell is just a big company. And Bell has nothing to do with assessing the complaints. CRTC is completely responsible for that. Keep in mind that the legislation states that companies can call you if you have an existing relationship with them. Even so though there are rules of engagement. I suggest you file your complaint and see what happens. Many don’t know this but in the states AT&T was one of the first fined, and they hosted the list (http://advertising.about.com/b/2003/11/04/att-violates-its-own-do-not-call-list.htm).
Take care.