Comments on: $207,000 Bell Canada phone bill http://www.p2pnet.net/story/18309 p2pnet.net - reader powered Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:08:48 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: TelecomJ http://www.p2pnet.net/story/18309/comment-page-1#comment-968262 TelecomJ Tue, 24 Feb 2009 20:55:22 +0000 http://www.p2pnet.net/story/18309#comment-968262 I talked to Bell yesterday. Basically Bell says if you pay for Bell lines you technically "own" those lines. If any long distance fraud occurs then you are responsible for all the charges. Now - Bell lines terminate/end on your telephone set (commercial or otherwise). Along the way the lines come into the telephone closet in your building (which may or may not be accessible to the public), the lines then go back to the demarcation point (which may be in the basement of a large multi unit building). Before that the Bell lines are very accessible in the little grey box that sits at the curb in front of your building (this is Bell property and does NOT have a lock). So Bell says that if someone stands on the street and hacks into your lines in the Bell box that was not locked - YOU (THE CUSTOMERS) ARE TOTALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHARGES. You cannot prove - and neither can Bell Canada - where the fraud took place, yet you are responsible for the charges. How do fight this? Talk to the CRTC 1-877-249-2782 Talk to the Commission for Complaints for Telecommunication Services 1-888-221-1687 Talk to Phonebusters 1-888-495-8501 and talk to the media. Think about it! Bell is also making a financial windfall/profit from this fraud - and I thought that was illegal. They also have the technology to track and prevent this fraud. Bell also has a "Managed Long Distance Solution" option for their customers - but you have to have 200.00 per month of long distance before they will help you protect yourself from fraud on your/their lines. Yes, customers have to have legitimate passwords on their voice mail equipment - but when you have taken that precaution and the fraud still occurs - what are you supposed to do? Bell will take no responsibility for their own lack of security in their own infrastructure - and will continue to blame the end user as long as they can get away with it! I talked to Bell yesterday. Basically Bell says if you pay for Bell lines you technically “own” those lines. If any long distance fraud occurs then you are responsible for all the charges.
Now – Bell lines terminate/end on your telephone set (commercial or otherwise). Along the way the lines come into the telephone closet in your building (which may or may not be accessible to the public), the lines then go back to the demarcation point (which may be in the basement of a large multi unit building). Before that the Bell lines are very accessible in the little grey box that sits at the curb in front of your building (this is Bell property and does NOT have a lock). So Bell says that if someone stands on the street and hacks into your lines in the Bell box that was not locked – YOU (THE CUSTOMERS) ARE TOTALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHARGES.
You cannot prove – and neither can Bell Canada – where the fraud took place, yet you are responsible for the charges.
How do fight this?
Talk to the CRTC 1-877-249-2782
Talk to the Commission for Complaints for Telecommunication Services 1-888-221-1687
Talk to Phonebusters 1-888-495-8501
and talk to the media.
Think about it! Bell is also making a financial windfall/profit from this fraud – and I thought that was illegal.
They also have the technology to track and prevent this fraud.
Bell also has a “Managed Long Distance Solution” option for their customers – but you have to have 200.00 per month of long distance before they will help you protect yourself from fraud on your/their lines.
Yes, customers have to have legitimate passwords on their voice mail equipment – but when you have taken that precaution and the fraud still occurs – what are you supposed to do?
Bell will take no responsibility for their own lack of security in their own infrastructure – and will continue to blame the end user as long as they can get away with it!

]]> By: Reader's Write http://www.p2pnet.net/story/18309/comment-page-1#comment-957412 Reader's Write Tue, 03 Feb 2009 01:18:19 +0000 http://www.p2pnet.net/story/18309#comment-957412 In the case of the Law Firm, I know someone who works there and I was told that the phone system was purchased from Bell and Bell outsourced to Nortel to have the system installed. The firm actually paid for a Bell representative to attend at the office and train all staff and assit with voicemail set up. The system is set so that each user must change thier password every 90 days, which was set up by the Bell representative. The passwords used were as difficult and random as a 4 digit password allows. Passwords were changed frequently and mailboxes were deleted as soon as users left the firm. Bell is trying to make it look like the problem is that the users are idiots and did not take measures to protect thier systems, but this was not the case. Bell is trying to scam us again! They are trying to get us all to believe that the reason these people have a $207,000 phone bill is because they used simple passwords that someone could guess. The fact is that the police have said it does not matter what password you use, the fraudsters use a computer program that runs every number until it gets in. Bell has known about this problem for a long time, but have pressured people into paying because they offer them a reduction as a goodwill gesture and the average person thinks "I had better just pay the reduced rate, because I don't have the means to fight the phone company". Let's face it, one of the companies that has been hacked into is a computer company. If a computer company can be hacked into, anyone is vunerable and it just doesn't matter what measures we take . . . Bell has failed to take measures to protect the consumer. They have not taken measures to develop better security and they have not brought these issues to the forefront so that the consumer is aware of how vulnerable they are. This is why Bell is blowing smoke and trying to make us all think that the people this has happened to are stupid and deserve it. In the case of the Law Firm, I know someone who works there and I was told that the phone system was purchased from Bell and Bell outsourced to Nortel to have the system installed. The firm actually paid for a Bell representative to attend at the office and train all staff and assit with voicemail set up. The system is set so that each user must change thier password every 90 days, which was set up by the Bell representative. The passwords used were as difficult and random as a 4 digit password allows. Passwords were changed frequently and mailboxes were deleted as soon as users left the firm. Bell is trying to make it look like the problem is that the users are idiots and did not take measures to protect thier systems, but this was not the case. Bell is trying to scam us again! They are trying to get us all to believe that the reason these people have a $207,000 phone bill is because they used simple passwords that someone could guess. The fact is that the police have said it does not matter what password you use, the fraudsters use a computer program that runs every number until it gets in. Bell has known about this problem for a long time, but have pressured people into paying because they offer them a reduction as a goodwill gesture and the average person thinks “I had better just pay the reduced rate, because I don’t have the means to fight the phone company”. Let’s face it, one of the companies that has been hacked into is a computer company. If a computer company can be hacked into, anyone is vunerable and it just doesn’t matter what measures we take . . . Bell has failed to take measures to protect the consumer. They have not taken measures to develop better security and they have not brought these issues to the forefront so that the consumer is aware of how vulnerable they are. This is why Bell is blowing smoke and trying to make us all think that the people this has happened to are stupid and deserve it.

]]> By: Reader's Write http://www.p2pnet.net/story/18309/comment-page-1#comment-953648 Reader's Write Thu, 29 Jan 2009 00:15:21 +0000 http://www.p2pnet.net/story/18309#comment-953648 Apparently it played on TV. There is a user transcript of what was said here: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21822683- ---- This issue was just on. Did my best to capture what was said on the TV. The lawfirm spokesman: Apparently this is happening to lots of people and Bell isn't letting them off the hook. IN some cases they are reducing the amount owed. People who have an average 300$ phone bill and it spikes to 200K are not being caught by Bell. In 24-hrs 73$K in Long distance charges were made to Sierra Lionne. Bell cut the line. The office opened on Monday and find out the have no line, they call Bell and find out the situation. Bell tells them to follow their security procedures to change the 4 digit code on the system Bell told them to get. They do so and have always been doing so he stated. Next week 134$K racked up again in 24hrs, Bell cut the line, again. The law firm guy said bell told him: "your problem not ours". Bell told him in Nov they would waive all charges. In Dec they sent a bill for 200+K saying the person who waived the fee had no authority. Bell then said if you are willing to pay 100$K+ we may be willing to have the balance dropped. Bells side now: Julie Smithers, the mouth piece of Bell Canada: Talks about the issue of phone hacking.. doesn't say much really. Says: Bell has very sophisticated technologies in place to catch these, as in the case of guy above above and block the calls and warn the companies. Say's Bell is a victim here to. The reporter says: These are Bell voice mail systems that Bell recommended to these customer, and which Bell now says its their (customer) responsibility/problem. The mouth-piece said we look forward to working with the person above. Mouth-piece skirted the issue and question. Reporter: Why aren't you doing more to protect the companies and consumers? She skirts the issue and repeats "Bell has very sophisticated technologies in place to catch these cases". Then says, they take their business customers very very seriously and security and the fraud team are working on catching these. Reporter says: Bell Canada wanted the law firm to sign a confidentiality agreement (keep it quiet) and then they would drop the charges. Why? The Bell mouth piece skirted the issue and she said they will work with the law firm. I missed some due to a phone call... :/ But it was just more of the lip-flapping and repeating the above. The lawyer guy again: Bell has no incentive for security like other companies do (i.e. credit card companies and the like). Reporter will you fight? Law firm guy chuckled but said we hope it doesn't get to that and smiled even more. He said, Bell said there is no guarantee it won't happen again. More or less that was about it. Apparently it played on TV. There is a user transcript of what was said here: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21822683-
—-

This issue was just on. Did my best to capture what was said on the TV.

The lawfirm spokesman:

Apparently this is happening to lots of people and Bell isn’t letting them off the hook. IN some cases they are reducing the amount owed.

People who have an average 300$ phone bill and it spikes to 200K are not being caught by Bell.

In 24-hrs 73$K in Long distance charges were made to Sierra Lionne. Bell cut the line.

The office opened on Monday and find out the have no line, they call Bell and find out the situation.

Bell tells them to follow their security procedures to change the 4 digit code on the system Bell told them to get. They do so and have always been doing so he stated.

Next week 134$K racked up again in 24hrs, Bell cut the line, again.

The law firm guy said bell told him: “your problem not ours”.

Bell told him in Nov they would waive all charges.

In Dec they sent a bill for 200+K saying the person who waived the fee had no authority.

Bell then said if you are willing to pay 100$K+ we may be willing to have the balance dropped.

Bells side now:
Julie Smithers, the mouth piece of Bell Canada:

Talks about the issue of phone hacking.. doesn’t say much really.

Says: Bell has very sophisticated technologies in place to catch these, as in the case of guy above above and block the calls and warn the companies.

Say’s Bell is a victim here to.

The reporter says: These are Bell voice mail systems that Bell recommended to these customer, and which Bell now says its their (customer) responsibility/problem.

The mouth-piece said we look forward to working with the person above. Mouth-piece skirted the issue and question.

Reporter: Why aren’t you doing more to protect the companies and consumers? She skirts the issue and repeats “Bell has very sophisticated technologies in place to catch these cases”. Then says, they take their business customers very very seriously and security and the fraud team are working on catching these.

Reporter says: Bell Canada wanted the law firm to sign a confidentiality agreement (keep it quiet) and then they would drop the charges. Why? The Bell mouth piece skirted the issue and she said they will work with the law firm.

I missed some due to a phone call… :/ But it was just more of the lip-flapping and repeating the above.

The lawyer guy again:

Bell has no incentive for security like other companies do (i.e. credit card companies and the like).

Reporter will you fight? Law firm guy chuckled but said we hope it doesn’t get to that and smiled even more.

He said, Bell said there is no guarantee it won’t happen again.

More or less that was about it.

]]> By: Dave http://www.p2pnet.net/story/18309/comment-page-1#comment-953097 Dave Wed, 28 Jan 2009 09:28:11 +0000 http://www.p2pnet.net/story/18309#comment-953097 Real question is, were they running their own voicemail system or leasing from Bell?? If it was the latter, then Bell is 100% responsible and they shouldn't have to pay a penny. Real question is, were they running their own voicemail system or leasing from Bell?? If it was the latter, then Bell is 100% responsible and they shouldn’t have to pay a penny.

]]> By: Reader's Write http://www.p2pnet.net/story/18309/comment-page-1#comment-952467 Reader's Write Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:58:37 +0000 http://www.p2pnet.net/story/18309#comment-952467 hahahaha "Bell puff piece" You have a way with words! Love it hahahaha “Bell puff piece”

You have a way with words! Love it

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