Qtrax is back (cough, cough)
p2pnet news | Music:- A little more a year ago, “Qtrax says it has deals with Warner Music, EMI, Vivendi Universal and Sony BMG`s RIAA, members of the Big 4 organised music cartel, just like other corporate efforts to cash in on the online music phenomenon,” reported p2pnet.
But, Warner Music, “undermined that claim, declaring in a statement that it `has not authorized the use of our content on Qtrax`s recently announced service`,” said Associated Press, going on:
“Universal Music Group and EMI Group PLC later confirmed they did not have licensing deals in place with Qtrax, noting discussions were still ongoing. A call to Sony BMG Music Entertainment was not immediately returned.”
According to the company`s Allan Klepfisz, (right) who’s associated with Brilliant Technologies, “Artists and record labels” are, “supporting Qtrax to stem a losing fight against stolen music,” said new.com.au.
Now, “Warner Music Group and Qtrax, the worst fake-P2P music service this side of iMesh, have inked a deal that covers WMG’s catalog,”" says Coolfer,” going on to compare a current press release with one from September 2006, the first time WMG licensed its catalog to Qtrax.
The difference?
“In 2006, WMG called Qtrax ‘innovative’,” says the story, whereas this year’s, “could muster only the words ‘unique’ and ‘legal.’
“It’s like Qtrax gave WMG a pair of socks for Christmas.”
Said The Register of Qtrax the first time around
Says Andrew Orlowski in The Register »»»
Qtrax delivers an unlimited supply of free music to the web surfer, for them to keep, by scraping the Gnutella P2P network, sticking ads on the front end, filtering out the bogus files (that the IFPI and RIAA have put on the P2P networks in such abundance over the years), and wrapping the song files in DRM.
If that isn`t surreal enough, the company pushed a bewildered looking James Blunt on stage with a broom to say how stealing from the sweat shop was wrong. And that he didn`t really know much about what was going on – but he`d like to.
Qtrax is staffed by refugees from SpiralFrog, the clueless ad-supported web startup that was unveiled in a blaze of publicity but never quite launched properly – yet still managed to fork over $2m to Universal Music, the world`s biggest record company, before it had made a single transaction. These business geniuses have now raised $30m from venture capital for their latest suicidal tilt at the market.
If you`re going to fail, I guess, then fail hard and fast.
The company has pinched what it could from open source land. The fat client is a custom version of Firefox, with a fork of the Songbird music player layered on top. Normally software developers could expect a decent license fee from a $30m start-up for use of their work – but in the new Tim O`Reilly `freetard` model, the Firefox and Songbird developers don`t get a cent for their labour – merely the satisfaction that they`re `building a platform`.
The company also deploys MusicIP’s filtering software to weed out noise (such as the junk tracks that contain pops and clicks) as well as unlicensed material such as The Beatles catalog.
Qtrax has plastered Cannes with saturation advertising.
Says Coolfer this time »»»
It is unclear what is new about the new version of the player (it may be the playlist sharing function). After installing the player and browsing around for about 20 minutes, I could see little had changed. Qtrax is still the same, clunky player and confusing experience it has always been. Of all the music services I’ve spent time with, Qtrax is the worst. I didn’t think it would be possible, but Qtrax is actually worse than iMesh. The improved catalog means little …few people are that hard up for free music.
No need to stay tuned.
p2pnet – Qtrax â `death knell` for CDs, January 28, 2008
Associated Press – Qtrax Aims to Offer IPod-Friendly Tracks, January 28, 2008
The Register – $30m blown on Desperation Derby, January 27, 2008
Coolfer – WMG & Qtrax….oh, nevermind, February 11, 2009
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February 13th, 2009 at 11:27 am
Why not take it if it’s free and legal? If I can play it on an MP3 player I don’t care if it’s DRM or not, I haven’t invested money in it so it’s fine as is. I have used Spiral Frog and Qtrax, the downloads are fast and virus free. Few people are hard up for free music? Well I am not poor but I am not rich. If I can save $50 a month on music I can spend that $50 on my sattellitte TV and still get $50 worth of free music rather than paying iTunes $50 and paying $50 for sattellitte TV.
If you can throw money around buying music good on you! I’ll take the free Deal Howie!
February 13th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Hi Dave:
Why did I think you’d be the first to post on this?
Cheers! And all the best …
February 13th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
At least until they go under, and your DRM laden music stops working.
If DRM is ok with you, thats ok.
Obviously, you are in the minority, and thats why Qtrax will follow Spiral Frog into
obscurity.
AllofMp3 has it right. Good pricing vs quality model, artists get paid, no DRM.
Some people never learn .. ( looking at you RIAA members )
February 14th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
I can see why a buying customer doesn’t want DRM. It works for the subscription all you can eat or free w/ad support model I think. I don’t wan’t to buy for .69 or .99 or 1.29 a song. If the Zune MarketPlace came to canada I would consider it, now Zune MP is a hybrid all you can eat rentals for $15 AND you keep $10 worht of music. In reality your paying $5 for “renting” music. Thats the sweet spot I think for rentals. Why buy $10 from Apple or Amazon when you can get $10 from Zune and keep it and for $5 sample or rent just about anything else?
As far as ad supported free music, both streaming and downloads with DRM are fine. It’s free, if it don’t last something else will take it’s place. Enjoy it while it lasts.
The LaLa model isn’t in canada either but it’s an intresting model as well.
Point about Qtrax, if it lives it lives if it dies it dies. Does the fact that it has DRM of free music mean you can’t enjoy the music while it lasts? Maybe groove in the moment…..
February 14th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
” Point about Qtrax, if it lives it lives if it dies it dies. Does the fact that it has DRM of free music mean you canât enjoy the music while it lasts? Maybe groove in the momentâ¦.. ”
Yes, it does.
The DRM means that you can’t enjoy it any and every way you want.
Any restrictions are unacceptable.
So are you able to tell all of us exactly how the ARTISTS get paid ?
Are the books open enough so we can see just what the ARTIST gets and what
the rightsholder ( the Label ) gets ?
” your paying $5 for ârentingâ music. ”
You continue to miss the point.
February 14th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
Getting it for FREE means restrictions are ACCEPTABLE to ME
What restrictions? I need a Windows Subscription capeable device, cheap as heck for FREE content.
I never mentioned artists getting paid or not. Have no idea.
February 14th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
” I need a Windows Subscription capeable device ”
Thats one restriction.
How many devices can you copy it to at one time ?
3 ? 2 ? none ?
Can you burn it to a CD for your car or office as many times as you like ?
Can you copy it to another computer without any restriction ?
Can you put it on your IPOD or MAC without issues ?
Can you use it ANY way you like anytime anywhere ?
No.
As long DRM is in the picture, the other free alternative will always look better.
Always.
AllofMp3 still has the best model, and plenty of people still PAY.
They pay a lot too.
That’s because there are NO restrictions of anykind.
Mp3’s don’t ‘expire’
Mp3’s don’t stop working when the company folds.
Mp3’s are 100% device AND OS agnostic.
As long as there is DRM it will fail.
Keep trying though, it’s kind of like watching someone doing the
same disastrous thing over and over again, and expecting a different
result.
I think that’s the definition of insanity.
” I never mentioned artists getting paid or not. Have no idea. ”
I know.
Supposedly at one time that was important to you.
Not so much now ?
You’re not even curious ?
Of course, no one can tell YOU what to do
February 15th, 2009 at 11:27 am
I never said artists getting wasnt important. Qtrax says they do. I have no idea if its true, hopefully it is.
February 15th, 2009 at 11:38 am
So, you believe it was ok to try to eliminate AllofMP3, who definitely WERE paying their
dues, but QTrax is fine by you, and you’re not even sure the right people get paid ?
You just HOPE so ?
This is what you’re trying to sell us ?
February 16th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Look at the variety of devices you can use spiral frog on. qtrax will be the same.
http://www.spiralfrog.com/pages/compatible_devices.aspx
I can use a FM tranasmitter to listen in my car or I can patch in with a cable to my Peavey PA soundsytem
I never use or burn cd’s. cd’s are old school.
again, fast and virus free, and i never have to listen to that fake bill clinton spoof file
cant put em on my ipod, sao what all i use my ipod for is free podcasts
i agree something like allofmp3 would be awesome at their prices but free is better than itunes prices anyway
February 16th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
” cant put em on my ipod, sao what all i use my ipod for is free podcasts ”
There you go, A problem.
You ONLY use your Ipod for podcasts ?
I doubt that, and even if that WERE true, you are in
the minority.
Once again you are proving my point.
With DRM you have to patch, workaround, or ( Ipod ) not use.
Free is not better if it is encumbered.
AllofMp3, once again, prove that people will pay a fair price for unencumbered
music. Just as fast, and just as virus free. I notice that tactic a lot with RIAA
shills. They like to ‘hint’ that allofmp3 is a virus haven ( it’s not ).
This makes no sense, trying to discourgage people from PAYING AT A LEGAL SITE
WHERE THE ROYALTIES ARE PROPERLY PAID.
Isn’t that what the industry wants ?, people to PAY for it right ?
All of this time the RIAA bitches that they can’t compete with free,
yet throughout this whole time, a site exists where people PAY
WILLINGLY for it, and the RIAA tries to shut them down.
They do this because there is no DRM
They do this because of the low price point, and they
don’t want to compete, they want to enforce.
And , I notice, you are dodging the issue of artists getting paid.
I’ll repeat myself ….
” So, you believe it was ok to try to eliminate AllofMP3, who definitely WERE paying their
dues, but QTrax is fine by you, and youâre not even sure the right people get paid ?
You just HOPE so ? ”
Is that what you are trying to sell us ?
February 16th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
” Look at the variety of devices you can use spiral frog on. qtrax will be the same. ”
You don’t need to refer to a ‘list’ to know what an mp3 works on.
It works on EVERYTHING regardless of manufacturer or OS.
No need for ANY list.
If you have to refer to a list to see if it will work, it’s a problem, not a ‘Feature’.
February 16th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
I guess we all agree to disagree and thankfully Mr.Newton allows for some debate and exchange of ideas. I think I’ll go fire up imeem and stream some kewl music!
February 16th, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Mr Newton?
Who he?
heh
Cheers!
February 16th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
I thought so.
You never do address any of the actual issues I present.
You always run away after ‘advertising’ Qtrax.
So how much of a stake DO you have in it anyway ?
February 16th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Enjoy!
http://www.imeem.com/popmusic23/music/VJN59GzO/weird_al_yankovic_dont_download_this_song/
February 17th, 2009 at 1:16 am
Right on dreddsnik! Thank you for actually challenging one of the many Qtrax enthusiastic individuals to answer the issues.
I’ve been following Qtrax, since I first heard about it over a year ago, which includes reading the investment sites for their holding company. At first glance, Qtrax sounded like a novel and innovative idea — I mean who doesn’t like the sound of free and legal music. But upon closer inspection, I realized that things really are not at all what they seem. Let me explain.
While at the end of the day the consumer gets songs legally without having to paying for them, they end up paying a price for it anyways in the form of freedom. With any Qtrax song download, you must a) be running Windows (i.e. not Linux or Mac OS or any other non-Windows OS), and b) accept that the songs are restricted by DRM, which further means that the consumer accepts that i) they can only download and listen to your songs in the proprietary Qtrax software application (which ironically is based on the open source Songbird project) on their machine, ii) they can not burn any of the songs to CD, iii) they cannot transfer their songs to any portable music devices except those authorized for Microsoft’s Plays For Sure (i.e., neither the iPod or Zune), and iv) in the event that Qtrax were to cease operations, they would no longer have access to their library of songs (much like other recently defunct music services who relied on this form of DRM).
Is it really worth it? I think most people would agree it really isn’t, especially with other music services offering the same songs with far fewer restrictions, albeit with a slight monetary cost.
Next, Qtrax says they are trying to target the illegal downloaders who make up a significant chunk of the annual digital downloads on the internet (btw, I’d be really curious to know how they arrived at those numbers). While it’s a very noble pursuit to try to convert these individuals over to avoid nasty lawsuits which the RIAA has become infamous for, I can’t help but find flaws with this. Why would an illegal downloader accept a DRM protected song, when they can get the same song without the restrictions at the same monetary cost? I know, I know — Qtrax is legal, and illegal downloading isn’t. Very true, however, if legality was actually an actual concern to most illegal downloaders, wouldn’t they have switched long ago to many of the cheap and legal offerings readily available, or hell just plain given up on it altogether? That’s exactly it … Qtrax is trying very hard in their marketing to dumb down the rather complex issue of illegal downloading and make it sound like they have found the be-all-end-all solution to the problem when, in fact, they really haven’t. Don’t get me wrong — piracy of copyrighted works is wrong, and I make it a personal point to always purchase my music from legal online retailers. However, I don’t believe Qtrax is going to make any in-roads with the illegal downloading crowd, especially since others have had very little success in the past. One thing I know for sure, it isn’t going to be some golden cashcow like many of the investors I’ve read believe it is going to be.
Anyways, just some food for thought …
February 17th, 2009 at 11:53 am
” especially since others have had very little success in the past. ”
This isn’t entirely true.
AllofMP3 still exists and is fantastically successful.
That’s because of the reasonable price point and NO DRM.
People WILL PAY .. if it’s hassle free and worth it.
” Thank you for actually challenging one of the many Qtrax enthusiastic individuals to answer the issues. ”
SuperDave is always the first ( and usually only ) one to tout the wonders of Qtrax.
I think he has some personal interest in the project ( possibly an investor, or a relative ).
He never EVER addresses the flaws that we point out.
February 17th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
I honestly have NO financial intrests in Qtrax or BLLN nor do i personally know of anyone who does. I do post on iHub in the BLLN section but as I have always stated over there I post of out curosity as I am a self proclaimed NON investor. I only seek to use Qtrax if it ever comes to canada out of the enjoyment of music.
Is Qtrax perfect? No. Is it free? yes. Ad supported. Take it or leave it but if I am getting something of value for free I don’t think I have the right to make the rules. I fI can live with rules/restrictions in exchange for a free ad suppprted service or product fine.
If restrictions aren’t your thing, then PAY for what you want elsewhere or get it FREE elsewhere.
February 17th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
” If restrictions arenât your thing, then PAY for what you want elsewhere or get it FREE elsewhere. ”
That’s exactly whats happening …
Paying ( at AllofMp3 ) and enjoying NO RESTRICTIONS.
A good business model fills a needthat is not being addressed elswhere,
or a need that is not being adressed properly.
Qtrax does not do that.
AllofMp3 fills the need legally, and without restrictions, making Qtrax a lesser quality alternative.
As far as you’re continued stress on free,
If it has restrictions , it ain’t free.
The FREE alternative is also covered by various means, and without restrictions.
Don’t kid yourself about those other free alternatives ( that they will be eliminated ),
there will always be someone one step ahead of the cartels.
Always.
The people that DO want to pay are, and have no restrictions.
Qtrax has no place in the market.
Spiral Frog didn’t either.
Spiral Frog died
So will QTrax.
Live with the restrictions if you want, i’m not the boss of you
The rest of us WILL look elswhere.
BTW,
You still haven’t addressed any of the issues I posed above directly.
Let me remind you, so you don’t miss them again ….
” Isnât that what the industry wants ?, people to PAY for it right ?
All of this time the RIAA bitches that they canât compete with free,
yet throughout this whole time, a site exists where people PAY
WILLINGLY for it, and the RIAA tries to shut them down.
They do this because there is no DRM
They do this because of the low price point, and they
donât want to compete, they want to enforce.
And , I notice, you are dodging the issue of artists getting paid.
Iâll repeat myself â¦.
â So, you believe it was ok to try to eliminate AllofMP3, who definitely WERE paying their
dues, but QTrax is fine by you, and youâre not even sure the right people get paid ?
You just HOPE so ? â
Is that what you are trying to sell us ? ”
Point by point …
1 .. Does the music industry want to be paid, so they can compensate their artists or not ?
A yes or no will do
2. Why then, did they try to shut down a working model that people willingly gave money to
and PAID THE PROPER COLLECTIVE SOCIETIES making them legal.
People were paying, JUST LIKE THEY SAY THEY WANTED.
Well ?
3. How, precisely, is the artist compensated with Qtrax ?
By comparison, it would be EASY for AllofMp3 to say that -Musician- sold exactly -wad of cash- for the month
of Zerg, thus knowing exaclty how much to pay -musician- .
Easy to know who gets what.
No guesswork or basing payment on ’samples’
ooooo
I just answered my own question.
Easy tracking means no way to HIDE THE MONEY AND RIP OFF THE ARTISTS.
So, you support a system that makes it easy to hide who REALLY earns the money ?
Qtrax will never be taken seriously.
February 17th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
If I knew allofmp3 was 100% legal I would consider it. It seems to be disputed as to its legality in some circles.
can i trust them w/ my credit card? I read that the RIAA refused to accept payment of royalties because they don’t consider it legal. So how are the srtists getting paid from allofmp3???
February 17th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
” So how are the srtists getting paid from allofmp3??? ”
The same way they are paid in the US.
The money goes to the Russian version of the collective societies
to distribute based on sampling.
oops, they don’t do such a good job of that in the US either, but still legal.
” If I knew allofmp3 was 100% legal ”
It is.
The RIAA members disputed it, tried to close it down, and failed
because it is legal.
That’s why it is still around.
” read that the RIAA refused to accept payment of royalties ”
Do you even read your own posts ?
The RIAA refuses to take money to pay their artists should tell you
something.
Legal in russia, but the aa’s don’t like it so they REFUSED MONEY.
They don’t want to accept a site that does not use DRM and does not
sell by the pricing model that the labels refuse to give up.
The don’t wat the competition.
But since it’s legal, it’s still around .. nice.
” can i trust them w/ my credit card? ”
nice excuse,
do you e-bay ?
do you pay for ANYTHING on the internet .. it’s just as safe and you know it.
Of course the next step in the cartel propoganda machine is to ‘hint’
that your card information might not be safe .. bullshit.
They are better than Goebbels at turning lies into truth.
If there WERE problems as you ‘hint’ then AllofMp3 wouldn’t be
as successful.
Once again,
adress the issues that I asked you about.
February 17th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
” I read that the RIAA refused to accept payment of royalties because they donât consider it legal. So how are the srtists getting paid from allofmp3??? ”
I read somewhere that the easter bunny holidays in Beirut.
Cite some sources.
February 17th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
If someone can point me to a 100% Legal source of MP3’s with crazy prices like allofMP3 I would sign up, but I fear all that is to good to be true. If I am going to get shady grey area MP3’s I might as well use Frostwire, I have this disscussion w/my wife all the time. She Frostwires all of her music.
February 17th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
” If someone can point me to a 100% Legal source of MP3âs with crazy prices like allofMP3 ”
I just did.
” but I fear all that is to good to be true. ”
You just described Qtrax.
” I have this disscussion w/my wife all the time. She Frostwires all of her music. ”
Guess your not really all THAT concerned about artists getting paid then.
PS .. you still haven’t addressed any of the issues I outlined regarding Qtrax.
Are you ?
February 17th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
I don’t tell my wife to use or not use Frostwire. She is her own person.
I signed up for AllofMp3 ages ago but never funded my account, I just signed up for Soundlike.com
If its legal in canada or not I don’t know, but I will try my best to find out before I fund my account and make a purchase.
They gace me .30 cents to start, they say thats enough for 2 MP3’s to try, so i guess I will.
ihttp://www.soundike.com
February 17th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
You might want to peruse some of these articles at this page
http://www.allofmp3.ru/press.shtml
notably
Music industry DROPS copyright suit against Russian music site.
Court Confirms Legality of AllofMP3
yes, it’s legal.
February 17th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
â especially since others have had very little success in the past. â
“This isnât entirely true.
AllofMP3 still exists and is fantastically successful.
Thatâs because of the reasonable price point and NO DRM.
People WILL PAY .. if itâs hassle free and worth it.”
I was speaking that while there’s a plethora of semi to very successful music services out there, according to the supposed numbers of digital downloads a year, still roughly 90% are illegal … which is quite significant considering the vast number of options available to the consumer. So what I was trying to say was even if Qtrax proves to be profitable, I don’t see them making much in-roads to towards helping to curb illegal downloading by offering a free ad-supported solution … maybe 1-2% at best.
But yes, I agree … people will pay if it’s hassle free and worth it. I think that’s true of any good business model.
“Spiral Frog died.”
Last I checked, they were still very much active … not sure how profitable they are though. But I’d have to say they definitely have an edge on Qtrax just by virtue of being the first ones to the marketplace … so if anyone is going to succeed in the ad-supported music service business, it would probably be them. Either way, Qtrax’s not going to be some huge cashcow like the investors trying to pump it up on various blogs are making it out to be — you can definitely tell alot of them haven’t got a sweet clue about the technology behind the product, which if you’re like me, makes it all the more hilarious when they try to argue in favour of the product.
February 18th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
Um FYI David, but Soundike is an illegal service. They are selling songs, some of which are freely available by the artist, for money without their permission. Also in some cases, they are selling freely available bootlegs of concerts, for money, that have been clearly taken off torrent sites.
February 18th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
” Um FYI David, but Soundike is an illegal service. ”
( psst .. he knows that )
He picked that service deliberately so later he could ‘prove’ how badly
sites like that rip people off, and praise Qtrax some more.
Daves not stupid, he’s sneaky.
February 19th, 2009 at 10:15 am
Heh, considering one search on Google easily turned up all the information you could ever want to know about that (illegal) service, I wouldn’t consider that very sneaky at all but rather moreso the former that you mentionned him not being.
I’m actually a bit surprised that some of the other more notable corporate shills of Qtrax haven’t been on here to drum up support for their little ill-conceived product. Usually there’s at least a couple that try to convince you that Qtrax is going to be the next biggest internet phenomenon and going to make all its investors all rich. Apparently no one told them that DRM is so last year, and that nobody makes it rich off the stock market alone anymore. Not to mention that alot of those same investors have little to no knowledge in technology and post some of the most hilarious pie in the sky dreams (like Google or Microsoft being interested in a buyout, or some big manufacturer like Sony or Toshiba building an mp3 player to go with their product). Although the best has to be their conspiracy theories that someone is out to make sure their stock stays at 2 pennies in value, lol, and I thought they were only mildly dillusional.
Seriously though, if a product like Ruckus who had the support of a huge number of universities, is not able to survive with that kind of demographic/consumer base. There’s no chance Qtrax will (re-read my other posts if you want something more in-depth as to why). Oh well, I hope they had no sentimental attachment to their money since I don’t see this product lasting more than 2 years (and I’m probably being generous with that), there’s just no market for it in what is already a highly competitive and crowded marketplace for digital music retailers.
February 19th, 2009 at 10:36 am
” I wouldnât consider that very sneaky at all but rather moreso the former that you mentionned him not being. ”
One might think that , but read carefully.
As he was defnding the might of Qtrax he was careful to ‘poison the well’ in reference
to all of MP3 ….
â can i trust them w/ my credit card? â
He can then return with Horror Stories about how those services are ALL credit card ripoffs.
Sortof like the RIAA folks plant virus loaded files on P2P networks and then proclaim that
you can get a virus on P2P networks.
I still feel he has some close involvement with Qtrax, though he claims not to.
He pushes this constantly and consistently, ad a little TOO hard to be just some regular
joe who thinks it’s a good thing.