‘TechCrunch is full of shit’ – Last.fm
p2pnet news view RIAA | P2P:- “Hi from Last.fm, I’m one of the founders (and the original founder of audioscrobbler, the music tracking plugin).
“I’m not going to write much right now because i’m rather pissed off this article was published, except to say that this is utter nonsense and totally untrue.
“As far as I can tell, the author of this article got a ‘tip’ from *one* person and decided to make a story out of it. Techcrunch is full of shit, film at 11.”
So says RJ (Richard Jones) in a comment post to Erick Schonfeld’s (right) TechCrunch story which flatly states »»»
That leaked U2 album is causing all sorts of trouble. The unreleased album, which is due out on March 3, found its way onto BitTorrent and was downloaded hundreds of thousands of times. That, apparently, sent music industry lawyers over at the Recording Industry Association of America into a fit. As a result, word is going around that the RIAA asked social music service Last.fm for data about its user`s listening habits to find people with unreleased tracks on their computers. And Last.fm, which is owned by CBS, actually handed the data over to the RIAA. According to a tip we received:
I heard from an irate friend who works at CBS that last.fm recently provided the RIAA with a giant dump of user data to track down people who are scrobbling unreleased tracks. As word spread numerous employees at last.fm were up in arms because the data collected (a) can be used to identify individuals and (b) will likely be shared with 3rd parties that have relationships with the RIAA.
Supposedly, the operations team which handed over the data in the first place weren`t told the true purpose for the transfer or who was getting the data until after the fact, and only when they had to help with some corrupted data. It sounds like it was more of a corporate decision. I`ve contacted both CBS and the RIAA. Most of the Last.fm team is in London, where the weekend has already started. For now Last.fm says: To our knowledge, no data has been made available to RIAA. (The RIAA declined to comment).
Schonfeld goes on to point out “Last.fm members knowingly share what they are listening to with the rest of the Last.fm community,” and that Last.fm`s privacy policy reads:
“[...] your record collection (including your skipping history) may be viewed by all other users of Last.fm (who may include other organisations or representatives of other organisations who have registered as Last.fm users) and that they may easily associate this information with your Last.fm username.”
But. he adds »»»
“[...] most probably never even considered it a possibility that individually identifiable information about their listening habits (legal, illegal, or otherwise) could be handed over to an organization known for taking consumers to court for file-sharing. What makes this even more egregious is that it appears to be absent any legal precedent (such as a pending lawsuit) for which Last.fm could at least hide behind as an excuse.”
Posts Last.FM developer Russ Garrett
I’d like to issue a full and categorical denial of this. We’ve never had any request for such data by anyone, and if we did we wouldn’t consent to it.
Of course we work with the major labels and provide them with broad statistics, as we would with any other label, but we’d never personally identify our users to a third party – that goes against everything we stand for.
As far as I’m concerned Techcrunch have made this whole story up.
Stay tuned.
(NOTE: – When I first posted this, I inadvertently identified RJ (Richard Jones) as Rashmi Ranjan Padhy. I apologise for the error – JN)
TechCrunch – Did Last.fm Just Hand Over User Listening Data To the RIAA?, February 20, 2009
leaked U2 album – Spoiled by Bono, February 21, 2009
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February 21st, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Sounds like a cover-up to prevent what Facebook is worried about; people leaving their service on suspicion of handing over personal information.
If they don’t like the “cover-up” accusation, sorry, but welcome to the world where people are guilty until proven innocent. Citizens suffer from it, why should corporations be any different (since those who take this ‘guilty until proven innocent’ approach are actually corporations and/or organizations supported by corporations).
However, unlike the groups I was referring to who support the ‘guilty until proven innocent’ approach, I am willing to give Last.FM the benefit of the doubt and hopefully it won’t come out in the wash they actually DID hand over the information.
Let this be a wake-up call to all of us, actually read carefully anything before you agree to it!!!
February 21st, 2009 at 2:23 pm
I deleted my account with over 100,000 scrobs in it. I don’t even like U2. Maybe you could respond by adding privacy options above what is currently offered.
February 21st, 2009 at 2:50 pm
And this is one of the MAJOR reasons I like P2Pnet!! i can voice MHO without “signing up”
no PII is gathered so unless you can scan my IP addy I’m NO1UNO !!!!
February 21st, 2009 at 3:39 pm
Long ago it seems when scrobbler came out, I was recommended to go there. That it was “so neat”.
When I looked at it, I felt this was a potential for violation of privacy. I wouldn’t sign up for it.
One thing you should always consider. If the service offered doesn’t do something for you, then don’t just jump on the bandwagon. You’re always going to give up some data, just by showing up. How much you give depends on what you are willing to see as allowable. If you don’t care about your privacy, no one else will. Another consideration you should always keep in mind is that today’s operational methods are not necessarily tomorrow’s. Either the place can be bought out, or court order can demand what would not be given with permission if it is available. You know your info is not available if you aren’t there.
Now I have no idea if the article statements are true, no idea if last.fm is covering up or it’s really the way it is, no idea if the statements are made of whole cloth or an attempt at saving membership rolls. Nor do I care in the sense of the site as I don’t go there.
As NO1UNO makes mention of, I love p2pnet just because I can comment without having to do some sort of site identification. I can’t remove what ever IP is recorded as the connection place other than using proxy but I don’t have to reveal personal data to participate. It is one of the reasons I’m loyal to this site and have been for a long time.
I simply value my privacy. I have no schemes, no evil intentions, no dastardly deeds, planned beyond stating my personal opinions. If I recommend some product or software, it isn’t a spam, it’s because I have found it an answer to some problem stated, such as the thread on the Adobe hack. I would share what works for me to save others the headache and time of maybe discovering it for them selves or maybe not. At the same time, I don’t want my private data all over the net for the privilege of offering a helping hand when I can. The privacy factor is paramount to me, the helping hand comes in second place to that.
February 21st, 2009 at 3:56 pm
Jon, I have a few questions.
1. Why does Mr. Padhy preface his “denial” with “As far as I am concerned….”?
2. Doesn’t Mr. Padhy admit that Last.fm is owned by CBS?
3. Doesn’t Mr. Padhy admit that he works with the “major labels” and provides them with data?
February 21st, 2009 at 6:10 pm
@t NO1UNO:
The only IP addie I see is a loopback – NET-127-0-0-0-1
Cheers!
February 21st, 2009 at 7:01 pm
Hey .. here seems to be a mistake ..
Please RJ is not me …. he is someone else … i had just commented on his comment …
The editor should correct it …
February 21st, 2009 at 7:36 pm
tht was quick .. thnks
February 21st, 2009 at 7:38 pm
^^ Sorry. (blush)
Cheers!
February 21st, 2009 at 7:51 pm
@ Ray:
“Social music site Last.fm has been bought by US media giant CBS Corporation for $280m (£140m), the largest-ever UK Web 2.0 acquisition” – http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6701863.stm
Answers to your other questions pending …
Cheers!
February 21st, 2009 at 9:42 pm
“The only IP addie I see is a loopback – NET-127-0-0-0-1″
I have a pretty good idea why!!!
Thanks for noticing me guys!!! Ray Bekerman pointed this site out on his and
I really enjoy the info, and comments here.
I look forward to alot more good info and talk in the future
stw
February 22nd, 2009 at 3:48 am
someone has the old privacy text, they have changed it less then 2 weeks ago, would be interesting to see what backdoors they have put in to (as i speculatively allege) be able to have RIAA get the personly identifiable information by using their API.
[...]
We collect data regarding the users of Last.fm, including: (i) The Internet Protocol (IP) address of the userâs computer. This may or may not be associated with a particular Internet Service Provider (ISP);
[...]
We log certain information concerning the listening, skipping and music-sharing activities of users and other activities whilst they use the Website, and we may match such information with personally identifiable information concerning such users.
[...]
They spam you? [...]We may also use such personal information to send you notices, on behalf of others and ourselves, regarding products and services that we think may be of interest to you.[...]
[...]
Your username, together with other information concerning your use of the Last.fm Website, as well as any personal information included in your user profile, will be made available via Last.fmâs open application interface (the âAPIâ), which forms part of our âAudioScrobblerâ technology. See section 11 below for further details.
[...]
What exactly is “other information concering your use of the last.fm Website? They already admitted that they collect your IP and email some paragraphs above that one!
[...]
Last.fm complies with the Data Protection Act 1998 (the âActâ), including UK amending legislation and E.U. Directives. Pursuant to the Act, you have the right to be informed of, and to have access to, all of the personally identifiable information we hold about you, and you may do so by visiting your user profile when logged-in to your account on the Website, or by e-mailing us at: legal@last.fm
[...]
[...]Certain third party individuals or organisations may have access to your personal information (excluding your email contact information) via Last.fmâs API and webservices or as a result of agreements between Last.fm and its preferred partners.[...]
“Certain third party individuals or organisations may have” “Certain” -> Who? “may have” -> you don’t want to categorical deny that you not give stuff to “certain third parties” [like the riaa for example?] which you define as personal information?
Now what a company is that? Oh, I forgot, its a CBS company which is owned (as far as i remember) by Sony which is with the RIAA and the evil4 labels
February 23rd, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Not the first time Techcrunch has gotten something wrong. They have displayed a tendency to report anything that would be controversial to get readers for some time. I personally do not consider them to be credible source of information on anything.