RealNetworks – ‘give us another shot’
p2pnet news view | P2P | Music:- Last week, p2pnet ran a story on Realnetwork’s profit earnings for its failing (Surprise!) Rhapsody subscription service.
RealNetworks’ Lacy Kemp replies with the usual PR apology for disappointing users in the past, beseeching us to ‘…give us another shot,’ because ‘we’ve cleaned up our act.’
Her comment ends with:
“I never thought I’d want a subscription service, but it’s amazing. The pure selection is fantastic, along with the ability to sample and listen to my music wherever I want. It’s been a totally awesome thing for me.”
We’ll get to that later.
In a response to surfer (another well-known p2pnet commentator) who was concerned that performers don’t get paid, Lacy replied:
“Artists get paid each time a song is streamed. Do I know how much? No, but we’re committed to paying the artists.”
[ Tell that to Eminem - JN 
]
We’ll get to that later, too.
And I did get to that later in my response, which I don’t think Lacy saw. So I’m reprinting it here in the hope she’ll see it and comment on it.
Without the usual PR BS, hopefully »»»
Hi Lacy. I thought you disappeared. Just lurking, huh?
I don’t use Realmedia…I actually don’t know of anyone who does and it’s been a long while since I’ve seen any modern website that uses it. Any old Realmedia files I had I converted to mp3 or divx or xvid long ago. Realplayer hasn’t existed in my system for half a decade.
Anyway, Real and others don’t seem to get the message that consumers do not want to rent music or video. They do not want to have to rely on dedicated players for certain media. They do not want to be restricted by geography to use any online service. Doing things like this loses potential customers
forever, and is ridiculous in the 21st century.Joss Whedon gave away Dr. Horrible to everyone on the planet and raked in the dosh through sales on itunes, merchandise, and dvd sales.
Monty Python gives away their stuff on gootube, and in less than three months their DVD sales increased by 23,000%.When Rhapsody, Napster, and others go bust (and they all will, sorry), where will all of the customer’s music and money go? Who will reimburse them for obsolete media players? Apple? Realnetworks? I don’t think so.
Apple is sort of on the right track by getting rid of drm and some other restrictions.
As I’ve written here – and proved – many times before, the performers are the last in line to receive royalties, if at all. The lion’s share of profits goes directly into the pockets of the cartels and never sees the inside of a performer’s bank account, due to the greediness of certain corporate entities and their devilish ways of cooking the books (also proven here numerous times), publicly crying to the poor house, inside laughing all the way to the off shore bank.
Jon, myself, and others who frequent p2pnet have actually discussed these things with famous and not-so-famous performers and they’ve all said the same thing, including the fact that the labels are absolutely not interested in artistic endeavors. They only care about the moolah. Their bottom line is the bottom line. Paying royalties is not in their business model or budget.
Realnetworks may pay the labels, but the labels don’t pay the performers, technicians, etc. who do the work. So you can understand why you aren’t getting a welcome reception here – you’re working for some of the most despised people on the globe.
Who can change this? Well, Real can do something to start it, actually. How? By providing quality ‘product’ without restrictions, rental fees, no dedicated players, no drm, and demanding that the labels make public weekly or monthly lists that prove how much each performer and technician has been paid in royalties from each service, whether digital, on air, streaming or CD/DVD sales. The list goes on.
You can also demand that Real and other distributors not be restricted to IP address for distribution. That costs you money and loses potential customers.
Sure, you can do it. Real can demand it because the labels want you to distribute it for them. If one company makes the demand, others will probably fall into line and do the same thing if you stick to your guns.Everyone would like to see their favorite performers – and technicians – be paid for whatever enjoyment they give, but not every performer can sell millions of cds or earn $20m/film. Most don’t actually earn that much, and no one is certainly deserving of that much, either.
(And by the way, Peter Jackson is still waiting for royalties from King Kong that were stolen by the studio.)The climate surrounding music and video distribution has changed in recent years, much of it due to consumers having had enough from the major labels’ cheating the customers, the performers, and technicians. I know this as fact. I’ve been involved with p2p in one way or another since the mid 90s.
If Real can get together with other distributors on demanding the labels prove to the public where the money went to (the bulk should go to the performers and technicians), they might find their sales increase. In fact, they will.
Of course, it might be too late in the day for a drastic change like this because the labels don’t want to let go of the purse strings, even though the consumer left them in the dust years ago.
And many performers (many more than the cartels would like to admit) are following suit and finding ways to give their stuff away for free and reaping large financial benefits from the gesture, while the labels and distributors are still mired down in DRM and other nasty ways of restricting personal use of legally purchased ‘product’.
As has been said before, you’re competing with ‘free’. Why do you distributors continually try to make people buy something they don’t want? Consumers are savvier than they were in the 60s and 70s, when current business models, ad revenue calculations and ways of writing ad copy were basically formulated.
I don’t buy things I don’t want. But I might be interested if I was offered something I do want, and be allowed to pay for it in the way that’s most convenient for me – bank transfers. No paypal. No credit cards. No checks. No money orders. And no IP address restrictions.
You know Lacy, there are more indie performers who need exposure, so Realnetworks and other distributors should instead look to them to form good relationships in distributing their works and remunerate them fairly.
Realnet, etc. should also be bound to make public exactly how much in royalties was paid to each performer and technician on a weekly/monthly basis.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Don’t demand something of the labels that you refuse to do yourself in the same position.
The climate has changed. The consumer changed it. It’s too late to go back.
————————–
As far as giving Realnetworks another shot…you’ll recall a few months ago I was hoping to do just that with another Real product. But because of previously undisclosed restrictions (which you did apologize for) I’ve been unable to give Real another shot.
Also, you ignored my last email to you that had several specific questions. I thought we’d started on a good relationship and was surprised Realnetworks decided that rather than answering my questions, it would just ignore me and hope I’d go away.
Well, I haven’t gone away, and I’m still waiting for answers to my questions.
So please tell me…why should I give real another shot? Realnetworks only disappoints me.Btw, as a side note: I don’t read corporate blogs. I leave that to Jon and others who don’t mind wading through all the BS PR propaganda.
You know that p2pnet is a place where meaningful amd intellectual discussions take place (usually), so I hope you’ll refrain from saying more things like:
‘I never thought I’d want a subscription service, but it’s amazing. The pure selection is fantastic, along with the ability to sample and listen to my music wherever I want. It’s been a totally awesome thing for me.’
That sounds completely like it was written on Madison Avenue for a 13 year-old to say in a commercial. I don’t think you’re 13, but it doesn’t sound like something a woman would say unless she’s being paid to say it as often as possible.
And anyway, I don’t believe you actually pay to use the service, as you’re an employee of Realnetworks, and major media/telecommunications companies usually give their services to their employees for free.
So when Rhapsody dies, you won’t have lost a cent.
Stay tuned.
catflap – p2pnet
February , 2009
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February 24th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Bravo!
[queue thunderous applause!]
I’d add just one thing to all of this…
Everything Real Networks ever put out is either broken or full of malware, anyway.
There’s no rational reason anyone should give them (yet) another chance.
February 24th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
Lacy, what is your response to this comment? Many of us would like to know:
“Taking into account digital trends, RealNetworks’ music gains are fairly disappointing. The company’s music revenue increased 8% for the entire year and 8.2% in Q4. Those gains are well behind the increase in U.S. digital download revenue (about 30% in 2008) and the high adoption rates of free, ad-supported services for both PC and iPhone.”
RealNetwork brand awareness is largely negative. They screwed up their users too often in the past. MP3 buyers have some choice when to pay for music made by kartels and they go to iTunes and Amazon instead of Real.
This blog entry is priceless: http://jogin.com/weblog/archives/2004/02/29/real_obnoxious
February 24th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
another sidenote real networks just hangenaded to talks between Sound Exchange and Web Radio good going Real your batting a thousand.
February 24th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
in case anyone’s unsure of my perspective, i do think there’s room for fair distribution, as i’ve outlined some basics above.
since the cartels are unwilling to voluntarily change their business model and how they sell music and video, as well as proving how the royalties are paid, it’s up to the distributors to force them to change by making the demands – and others i haven’t thought of yet – that i’ve mentioned.
the cartels are at the mercy of itunes, realnetworks, and other distributors, just as they’re at the mercy of consumers who pay their salaries, as well as p2p. the cartels need the distributors and the customers – not the other way round.
the distributors can and should take an active, and pro-active, role in changing the business because it’s very clear the labels don’t give a shit about the customer. but they do care if distributors refuse to obey them. but they have to act now.
look for ways to increase pressure by dropping major labels and concentrate on indies who do need, and appreciate, a good working relationship and a fair amd equitable business model.
i challenge Realnetworks, itunes, and all the rest to start making all of these demands and changes now. you can’t ever get rid of p2p, but if you want to compete with it, offer substance and value.
February 24th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
catflap-
I’m not going to argue point for point with you since you seem to have your mind made up, but I like reading p2p.net and think your readers deserve the facts.
First a correction to your headline earlier this week: the Rhapsody service is not failing. Revenue is up. Subscription revenue is up 14% from last year. Subscriber growth is up nearly 30%, so even though you don’t like subscription music, there are a lot of people who see enough value in unlimited access to pay for it every month. Comparing us to Apple’s iPhone sales or total download growth is like comparing p2pnet revenue to The International Herald Tribune’s sales.
Second, I’m flattered that you think we have so much power over the labels. We don’t. If you have a problem with the way they contract with artists, I suggest you take it up with them. For our part, we help promote new talent all the time and I welcome you to join us in a few weeks at SXSW to see for yourself.
I think it is interesting that you give Apple (appropriate) props for dropping DRM, but you neglect to mention that Real was among those that initially called on the labels to drop this scheme. The truth is we beat Apple to market w/ DRM free music and so did Amazon and Napster. For those that appreciate the value of subscription music, we have our on-demand streaming service. If you want to purchase a-la-cart DRM-free music, we have that too. So let’s give credit where credit is due.
Your comment about my comment being “BS PR propaganda” is interesting. Why would I work for a company if I loathed their product? Do I love Rhapsody? You bet your ass I do. I don’t mind paying for my music, (or my internet, or my cable, or renting movies) and that’s why Rhapsody works for me. I have no interest in ad-supported, tethered music. I also don’t believe in stealing my music because I want the artists to get paid. Rhapsody doesn’t need to “compete with free.” Free is going to be enticing in any marketplace but unfortunately free doesn’t pay the artists anything either, catflap.
Yes, I got your past email. I can’t promise to answer all of your questions – unfortunately, whether you like it or not, I DO work for a company and there are certain things I can and cannot comment on. Sorry, this is reality
I’ve written more about my opinion on subscription music on our corporate blog (http://realnetworksblog.com/?p=409 )- but you wouldn’t be caught dead reading one of those now, would you? After all, it may sound like a 13 year old was paid to write it.
February 24th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
” I also don’t believe in stealing ”
Lacy,
respectfully, continuing to compare P2P to stealing ( when it’s in fact, not ), is never going to get
any credibility here.
Time and time again it has been shown that a downloaded song CANNOT be equated to a lost sale,
theres a Judge who agrees with that as well.
So first, PLEASE drop the P2P equals stealing angle.
That IS false and not in keeping with your respectable position.
” I want the artists to get paid. ”
I know you do, we do too.
We also know that the Labels don’t pay their artists.
We know you don’t have any control over that, but dismissing with a casual ” you have a problem with the way they contract with artists, I suggest you take it up with them. ” isn’t helpful.
When a small group holds a monopoly there isn’t any other way but their way.
As a musician who has been offered contracts twice in my lifetime, I know this to be fact.
If the internet was at the state it is now when I was at my performing peak, I would have been doing
things like Nin did. That’s the way of the future.
Perhaps you COULD have more power over the cartels if it were more attractive for non-label artists to
associate with you. I suggest wooing the unsigned ones, taking a risk.
The music industry USED to take risks. If those risks panned out, and the cartels see themselves
getting edged out, you WOULD have more power.
I am glad, however, to see some representation from the ‘other’ side willing to at
least come for coffee, so to speak.
February 24th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Hey Lacy:
Welcome back
I don’t want to think we’re ganging up on you, but rarely do we get anyone who’s actually willing to come here and talk about things up front. So good on you. And good on your bosses for letting you do it, although their interests are obviously and plainly extremely vested. Clever move on their part. Doesn’t cost them anything either.
I don’t know of anywhere else a music industry rep is to-ing and fro-ing like this. But maybe you and others in your field are also active on other sites? If so, where? It’d be interesting to see if this is a developing trend.
You say, “I also don’t believe in stealing my music because I want the artists to get paid.”
Me neither. And me too. But who’s stealing? Or do you actually believe the Big 4 hype that sharing music is just like walking into a store and grabbing if off the shelf? And that files shared equal sales lost?
And do you really honestly believe artists get their fair dues from the corporate music industry? I’d have thought you’re way too smart for any of that.
Cheers!
February 24th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
critical damage – sneak attack – x6 damage, 800xps
February 24th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
hi lacy. i knew i’d get your attention again.
howyadoin’?
from our past emails, you should know i don’t have any personal animosity towards you, not least because you did/do take the time to read and respond to articles here.
i know you’re only a cog in the wheel of the company, and that you don’t make the big decisions. but because p2pnet hardly ever receives public replies from any media company (unless of course they’re trying to sue jon
), i know that you can at least bring these points to the attention of your execs who do make the decisions.
i don’t want to argue. that’s not what i do. but having a discussion on all the points and suggestions i made – either by you, or through you by the company – would certainly go a long way to improving relations.
as far as how the labels contract and pay royalties, yes, we do have a problem with that. but unfortunately, the labels aren’t interested in listening to the consumer. we’ve tried to engage reps from RIAA to have intelligent discussions, but they refuse, or send their anonymous trolls here to cause trouble.
btw, i didn’t write the original article on p2pnet about Rhapsody. i only commented on the content.
and if you (Realnetworks) is seriously inviting me to attend SXSW, i’d be happy to. i don’t mind being proved wrong if Real is offering a wide range of services i can see for myself. you can email me and we can discuss Realnetwork’s sending me an airline ticket, hotel accomodations, transportation, and SXSW admission.
February 24th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
^^ i don’t mind being proved wrong if Real is offering a wide range of services i can see for myself. you can email me and we can discuss Realnetwork’s sending me an airline ticket, hotel accomodations, transportation, and SXSW admission.
Me too.
Cheers!
February 24th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
You guys are funny. Have you been to SXSW before? I would think you’d be all over it.
February 24th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
like i said, if Realnetworks is seriously inviting me, send me what i need to be there, and i’ll be all over it like white on rice.
i’m serious if Realnetworks is serious.
February 24th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
” You guys are funny. Have you been to SXSW before? I would think you’d be all over it. ”
You’re funny too
I don’t think most of us are in the proper tax bracket
That’s why politicians ignore us as well.
We’re just people.
Not well funded lawyers.
Not Corporate executives.
Trouble is we’re the ones they expect to buy their ( and your ) product.
It’s tough for us to want to do that when we’re treated with contempt and
labled as thieves.
February 24th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
@ Lacy:
“You guys are funny. Have you been to SXSW before? I would think you’d be all over it.”
Yup. Funny. I can’t speak for catflap, but for myself, my income is just enough to keep p2pnet online and pay the mortgage. There’s nothing left over for trade-fests.
But don’t get the wrong idea. Having said that, I wouldn’t trade my life for anything. I’m just pointing out the facts, mam, just the facts; not complaining.
Meanwhile, do you actually believe the Big 4 hype that sharing music is just like walking into a store and grabbing if off the shelf? And that files shared equal sales lost?
And do you really honestly believe artists get their fair dues from the corporate music industry?
Cheers!
February 24th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
” Meanwhile, do you actually believe the Big 4 hype that sharing music is just like walking into a store and grabbing if off the shelf? And that files shared equal sales lost?
And do you really honestly believe artists get their fair dues from the corporate music industry? ”
Two excellent questions that will never be honestly addressed by any executive or representative
of any media company.
I don’t believe this time will be different.
No one inspires confidence by dodging tough questions.
February 24th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
The price list …
http://sxsw.com/attend
Nice.
It’s a sure bet that no lowly types like ourselves will be there.
Or … are those prices a ’steal’
February 24th, 2009 at 9:29 pm
No fear, guys. The Power of Sharing is here again!
SXSW Showcasing Music Torrents
The following are torrents that contain all the released music from the annual South by Southwest music festival in Austin, TX.
http://hewgill.com/sxsw/
Share the wealth!
February 24th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
And here is the 2009 SXSW torrent:
http://sites.google.com/site/sxsw2009torrent/
February 24th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
“I can’t speak for catflap, but for myself, my income is just enough to keeping p2pnet online and pay the mortgage.”
*****
well lacy, i’m pretty much in the same boat. you know where i live [don’t mention it here
] and a bit of my situation [that either]. (if only jon would/could pay me… 
)
but honestly, if your company truly wants to trail blaze way ahead of the corporate pack by showing us “thieves” and “pirates” in person what you have to offer, i’m quite serious about accepting your invitation. plus a case of red bull.
it definitely would be a gesture not easily forgotten in building bridges. and it’s a cinch that apple, google, and microsoft would never extend their hand to us in that way. Realnetworks could be at the forefront.
we know (as you explained earlier and in last year’s news item) that you do want to develop products that appeal. we also know that your company is fighting the film industry because of your dvd copying program (which i might find useful if i could only get a copy of it to test) and i believe we’re on your side on that issue – at least as far as fighting the MPAA on it. i can’t say more because i haven’t been able to test the program yet.
and yes, you should also know that a file shared absolutely doesn’t equal a lost sale, as i pointed out in this item, and proved over and over again in these pages. filesharing increases awareness and can and does increase sales, no matter what the cartels say.
i do hope you’re paying attention to the pirate bay trial proceedings.
February 25th, 2009 at 8:34 am
Hi all:
Keeping p2pnet online is a month-to-month thing, with no pension or medical/dental benefits. And I never know when the ax will fall.
There was a point where I’d hoped I’d bring in enough advertising so I could pay people. But it didn’t happen largely, the guy who briefly try to look after the advertising end of things told me, because the perception is p2pnet is a file sharing site. The ‘executives’ in charge of such things can’t see beyond their noses and don’t understand many of the people who come here are typical of the people they’re trying to get their messages to.
@ Lacy: your bosses wouldn’t be able to send you down there in the first place were it not for the likes of us. And when they get there, they’ll be quaffing their booze, patting each other on the back, whining about how tough things are, and trying to figure new ways to sneak it past us, giving back as little as they can possibly get away with.
That’s the way it always has been, at any rate. But the fact you’re talking to us at all is an indication that changes are taking place and the realisation is finally dawning upon the corporate industry and all its greedy adherents that they depend on us, not the other way around. They’re also figuring out we’re no longer consumers, we’re customers again, and we decide who we go to, what we’ll do when we get there, and what we like. Not them.
Cheers!