Comments on: Flash? Macromedia myth http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952 p2pnet.net offers not-your-lamescream news on movies music digital media P2P peer-to-peer TV television file sharing freedom of speech open source product news Wifi mobiles company news games video games game consoles security marketing DRM Internet radio web radio Fri, 08 Aug 2008 19:01:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: Reader's Write http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-27713 Reader's Write Fri, 30 Dec 2005 04:30:03 +0000 http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-27713 lol at this loser nerd. I despise nerds with shit old pc's mewling about it slows down their shit old pc. go play more d&d loser lol at this loser nerd. I despise nerds with shit old pc’s mewling about it slows down their shit old pc. go play more d&d loser

]]> By: Reader's Write http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-16427 Reader's Write Thu, 07 Jul 2005 23:17:36 +0000 http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-16427 You're right, many people I ecountered have already got paranoid with spyware, etc. When they see pop up to install flash, they just so afraid and disabled it. HP15389043 You’re right, many people I ecountered have already got paranoid with spyware, etc. When they see pop up to install flash, they just so afraid and disabled it.

HP15389043

]]> By: Reader's Write http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-6774 Reader's Write Fri, 05 Nov 2004 05:10:22 +0000 http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-6774 Wrong interpretation of survey results and crappy survey methodology. 98% of survey takers could see FLASH animations! ...if google will not collect information from a page that is 100% flash animation - the result is as if the web site DID NOT EXIST! there were 5 milion downloads of the firefox browser in the first day of the 1.0 version, none of them plays flash! I am happy not to see and download milions of advertisings and megabytes of useless stuff. All dialup users will avoid ANY "flash survey"! Who wants to see 250KB flash advertising??? (at downlink of 2-5KB/s)??? So, the truth is that really about 60% of web users DO NOT DOWNLOAD the swf files by their browsers. That includes the 1-2% of users who run on text browsers and will avoid everything useless and will avoid STUPID SURVEYS. The company who delivered the survey results did terrific work... how can one be so stupid not to see what he does? They did not test actual web users from ALL web users, but from users WILLING TO WATCH FLASH... that's why the result...utterly stupid, but hey why not sacrifying the TRUTH in order to make the value of your company go high? mfb@pobox.sk Wrong interpretation of survey results and crappy survey methodology.

98% of survey takers could see FLASH animations!

…if google will not collect information from a page that is 100% flash animation - the result is as if the web site DID NOT EXIST!

there were 5 milion downloads of the firefox browser in the first day of the 1.0 version, none of them plays flash! I am happy not to see and download milions of advertisings and megabytes of useless stuff. All dialup users will avoid ANY “flash survey”! Who wants to see 250KB flash advertising??? (at downlink of 2-5KB/s)???

So, the truth is that really about 60% of web users DO NOT DOWNLOAD the swf files by their browsers. That includes the 1-2% of users who run on text browsers and will avoid everything useless and will avoid STUPID SURVEYS.

The company who delivered the survey results did terrific work… how can one be so stupid not to see what he does? They did not test actual web users from ALL web users, but from users WILLING TO WATCH FLASH… that’s why the result…utterly stupid, but hey why not sacrifying the TRUTH in order to make the value of your company go high?

mfb@pobox.sk

]]> By: Reader's Write http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-4932 Reader's Write Mon, 30 Aug 2004 21:46:02 +0000 http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-4932 I run a website and our market is the baby boomers. We have decided that using flash would be awesome, but with a generation that has a tough time attaching files to an email, they would have no idea how to install flash, probably would think it is some kind of spyware if a self installing window popped up. Until macromedia does a huge ad blitz informing the public about what flash is and can do, this is going to be a problem for in my guess another 5 years. I run a website and our market is the baby boomers. We have decided that using flash would be awesome, but with a generation that has a tough time attaching files to an email, they would have no idea how to install flash, probably would think it is some kind of spyware if a self installing window popped up. Until macromedia does a huge ad blitz informing the public about what flash is and can do, this is going to be a problem for in my guess another 5 years.

]]> By: Reader's Write http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-4931 Reader's Write Mon, 30 Aug 2004 21:42:01 +0000 http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-4931 In the past when we have implemented Flash on a site - we initially get a lot of calls, customer complaints about either not wanting to - or not knowing how to install Flash. These may be 80 year old grandmothers, etc - so please don't reply 'installing Flash isn't difficult'... My guess is Macromedia's number is high and the 40% here is probably a bit low and it's really somewhere in the middle. It would be nice to see an actual non-biased (non-Macromedia) study on this... Jim In the past when we have implemented Flash on a site - we initially get a lot of calls, customer complaints about either not wanting to - or not knowing how to install Flash. These may be 80 year old grandmothers, etc - so please don’t reply ‘installing Flash isn’t difficult’…

My guess is Macromedia’s number is high and the 40% here is probably a bit low and it’s really somewhere in the middle. It would be nice to see an actual non-biased (non-Macromedia) study on this…

Jim

]]> By: Reader's Write http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-4927 Reader's Write Mon, 30 Aug 2004 20:04:01 +0000 http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-4927 You haven't done a survey, you've posted your own subjective opinions. Macromedia is clear about their methodology. Between the default Flash browser installs on virtually all OEM machines, and common use of Flash on major sites, including Yahoo, CNN, Salon, and more, the 98% browser penetration figure is quite plausible. What is true is that less than 98% have the latest version installed. Flash Player 7 is running around 68% right now, and climbing steadily. You haven’t done a survey, you’ve posted your own subjective opinions. Macromedia is clear about their methodology. Between the default Flash browser installs on virtually all OEM machines, and common use of Flash on major sites, including Yahoo, CNN, Salon, and more, the 98% browser penetration figure is quite plausible. What is true is that less than 98% have the latest version installed. Flash Player 7 is running around 68% right now, and climbing steadily.

]]> By: Reader's Write http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-3532 Reader's Write Thu, 22 Jul 2004 07:35:05 +0000 http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-3532 hmmm. who is more bias, you or Neil? im afraid that your explanations are less moving. you can shove variables in all over the place if you like. i dont use flash on my website because i may lose customers. flash is a wonderful application, but 98% is absurd. we all know it. ;) hmmm. who is more bias, you or Neil? im afraid that your explanations are less moving. you can shove variables in all over the place if you like. i dont use flash on my website because i may lose customers. flash is a wonderful application, but 98% is absurd. we all know it. ;)

]]> By: Reader's Write http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-3530 Reader's Write Thu, 22 Jul 2004 05:49:18 +0000 http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-3530 Just curious as to why are you so anti-Fllash? Not saying you must assimilate, but what are you reasons against this technology? Do you hold the same love for SVG as well? Just curious as to why are you so anti-Fllash? Not saying you must assimilate, but what are you reasons against this technology? Do you hold the same love for SVG as well?

]]> By: Reader's Write http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-3503 Reader's Write Wed, 21 Jul 2004 22:20:37 +0000 http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-3503 You don't seem to understand. I don't create Flash files. I disable it. You don’t seem to understand. I don’t create Flash files. I disable it.

]]> By: Reader's Write http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-3500 Reader's Write Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:46:53 +0000 http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-3500 If your issue with Flash is that it "slows down a moderate speed computer", well, that it easily resolved. Just find someone with a little web design/development experience to redo the Flash you created. They will be able to optimize your files I'm sure. If your issue with Flash is that it “slows down a moderate speed computer”, well, that it easily resolved. Just find someone with a little web design/development experience to redo the Flash you created. They will be able to optimize your files I’m sure.

]]> By: Reader's Write http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-3495 Reader's Write Wed, 21 Jul 2004 07:37:25 +0000 http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-3495 I know I despise Flash. It's used in some pages to the point where it slows down a moderate speed computer. Fortunatly, it's very easy to uninstall Flash with Opera 7.5. Delete a file, and away you go. Now, if I could only get it to stop asking me if I want to install it. I know I despise Flash. It’s used in some pages to the point where it slows down a moderate speed computer.

Fortunatly, it’s very easy to uninstall Flash with Opera 7.5. Delete a file, and away you go. Now, if I could only get it to stop asking me if I want to install it.

]]> By: Reader's Write http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-3493 Reader's Write Wed, 21 Jul 2004 07:30:36 +0000 http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-3493 I've been monitoring Flash availability on the tourism sites I develop as I would like to introduce some cool Flash features. My stats package reports Flash use by site visitors at 95%. I'd be extremely surprised if your 40% is correct. I’ve been monitoring Flash availability on the tourism sites I develop as I would like to introduce some cool Flash features. My stats package reports Flash use by site visitors at 95%. I’d be extremely surprised if your 40% is correct.

]]> By: Reader's Write http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-3486 Reader's Write Wed, 21 Jul 2004 04:10:45 +0000 http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1952#comment-3486 "The next question is how did Macromedia get the 98% figure?" Here's methodology: http://www.macromedia.com/software/player_census/npd/ (My apologies that it's hard to find this through links today... the entire area is being reworked now, so expect changes here soon.) Recap: Four times a year, in various parts of the world, Media Metrix takes its regular consumer focus group and asks "Can you see this page? this page? this next one?" and so on, testing whether people can see varied extended content in their current browser as-is, without installing new code. The results have been very consistent over the last five or so years: no extended technology, including Java, is as viewable as SWF content, and the small Macromedia Flash Player gets updated much more quickly than larger plugins do. (Your rephrase of NPD's methodology is, I believe, incorrect... it is not "is there an installer on your OS CD?" but more "can your current browser, whatever it is, immediately display this content, without installing anything new?". It is indeed "do see Flash".) For "not a single computer has had it" that's difficult for me to imagine, because it has shipped stock with most mainstream browsers and operating systems for years... at worst I could see someone with "old version", but I'm curious what could lead to "no version": http://www.macromedia.com/software/flash/productinfo/partners/distpartners/browser/ For "my servers differ" then that's possible. It's good that you attempted to remove robots. Your audience may be different than regular consumer audiences, or your server's content may be larger than normal and not finish loading, or your audience may have a higher-than-normal percentage of SWF blockers installed, or there may be server requests for hijacked content, or any of a great variety of other possible differences. I would not assume that "he lies" just because you see something different. Later you say that, although none of your client machines had it, you did indeed find it on their systems. I'd be curious to learn what happened there, thanks... it sounds like the initial test may have been faulty, but I can't tell the situation from what I read. I do know that Yahoo, DoubleClick and other advertisers do their own hardcore testing of actual consumer capability, and their results mirror what Media Metrix finds among its consumer focus groups, although Yahoo and the rest do not publish their return-on-investment statistics. Your server's logs may show that the rest of the world is wrong, but that does not quite feel like the most parsimonious possible explanation...? Regards, John Dowdell Macromedia Support “The next question is how did Macromedia get the 98% figure?”

Here’s methodology:
http://www.macromedia.com/software/player_census/npd/

(My apologies that it’s hard to find this through links today… the entire area is being reworked now, so expect changes here soon.)

Recap: Four times a year, in various parts of the world, Media Metrix takes its regular consumer focus group and asks “Can you see this page? this page? this next one?” and so on, testing whether people can see varied extended content in their current browser as-is, without installing new code. The results have been very consistent over the last five or so years: no extended technology, including Java, is as viewable as SWF content, and the small Macromedia Flash Player gets updated much more quickly than larger plugins do.

(Your rephrase of NPD’s methodology is, I believe, incorrect… it is not “is there an installer on your OS CD?” but more “can your current browser, whatever it is, immediately display this content, without installing anything new?”. It is indeed “do see Flash”.)

For “not a single computer has had it” that’s difficult for me to imagine, because it has shipped stock with most mainstream browsers and operating systems for years… at worst I could see someone with “old version”, but I’m curious what could lead to “no version”:
http://www.macromedia.com/software/flash/productinfo/partners/distpartners/browser/

For “my servers differ” then that’s possible. It’s good that you attempted to remove robots. Your audience may be different than regular consumer audiences, or your server’s content may be larger than normal and not finish loading, or your audience may have a higher-than-normal percentage of SWF blockers installed, or there may be server requests for hijacked content, or any of a great variety of other possible differences. I would not assume that “he lies” just because you see something different.

Later you say that, although none of your client machines had it, you did indeed find it on their systems. I’d be curious to learn what happened there, thanks… it sounds like the initial test may have been faulty, but I can’t tell the situation from what I read.

I do know that Yahoo, DoubleClick and other advertisers do their own hardcore testing of actual consumer capability, and their results mirror what Media Metrix finds among its consumer focus groups, although Yahoo and the rest do not publish their return-on-investment statistics. Your server’s logs may show that the rest of the world is wrong, but that does not quite feel like the most parsimonious possible explanation…?

Regards,
John Dowdell
Macromedia Support

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