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	<title>Comments on: DoJ raids p2p operators</title>
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		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/2259/comment-page-1#comment-47120</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jun 2006 19:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-47120</guid>
		<description>Just for information--

You can code anything using Linux, Python, and other GPL software ; you are not required to release it or to release the source. (for those who know about linking requirements etc. : libpcap is BSD-licensed, so the point is irrelevant).

If they modified Linux or Python or anything, they would not be required to release the source, neither. You are required to release the source only if you DISTRIBUTE the resulting software.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just for information&#8211;</p>
<p>You can code anything using Linux, Python, and other GPL software ; you are not required to release it or to release the source. (for those who know about linking requirements etc. : libpcap is BSD-licensed, so the point is irrelevant).</p>
<p>If they modified Linux or Python or anything, they would not be required to release the source, neither. You are required to release the source only if you DISTRIBUTE the resulting software.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/2259/comment-page-1#comment-34373</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-34373</guid>
		<description>Quite simple. Do not go to the movies. Do not buy any music, videos. Since the law enforcement is acting on behalf of the entertainment industry (and do not do much for the general public), the y seem to have put their priorities with the money machines. The only way to hurt them is through the pocket. Do not support or buy their products. Would be nice to see some of the entertainers actually working for their money and those in the media industry having to watch their spending like the rest of us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quite simple. Do not go to the movies. Do not buy any music, videos. Since the law enforcement is acting on behalf of the entertainment industry (and do not do much for the general public), the y seem to have put their priorities with the money machines. The only way to hurt them is through the pocket. Do not support or buy their products. Would be nice to see some of the entertainers actually working for their money and those in the media industry having to watch their spending like the rest of us.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/2259/comment-page-1#comment-19034</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Aug 2005 01:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-19034</guid>
		<description>I AGREE WITH THE LAST COMMENT...THIS GUY WROTE THIS ARTICLE TO WARN US ABOUT FILE SHARING AND HOW IT CAN DESTROY US IF CAUGHT DOWNLOADING ANYTHING...PEDO OR NOT THIS GUY DID A GOOD JOB ON THIS ARTICLE...THE ONLY QUESTION THAT I HAVE IS...DO THE ANTIDOTES REALLY WORK? AND IF THEY DO HOW DID THE WRITER KNOW ABOUT THIS? HE MIGHT BE ONE OF THE SOFTWARE CREATORS...ANYONE: WRITE ANYTHING ELSE YOU KNOW ABOUT THIS SUBJECT THAT MIGHT BE HELPFULL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I AGREE WITH THE LAST COMMENT&#8230;THIS GUY WROTE THIS ARTICLE TO WARN US ABOUT FILE SHARING AND HOW IT CAN DESTROY US IF CAUGHT DOWNLOADING ANYTHING&#8230;PEDO OR NOT THIS GUY DID A GOOD JOB ON THIS ARTICLE&#8230;THE ONLY QUESTION THAT I HAVE IS&#8230;DO THE ANTIDOTES REALLY WORK? AND IF THEY DO HOW DID THE WRITER KNOW ABOUT THIS? HE MIGHT BE ONE OF THE SOFTWARE CREATORS&#8230;ANYONE: WRITE ANYTHING ELSE YOU KNOW ABOUT THIS SUBJECT THAT MIGHT BE HELPFULL.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/2259/comment-page-1#comment-6364</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Oct 2004 06:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-6364</guid>
		<description>i don&#039;t think the guy writing this article was fundamentally wrong about it for a few reasons:

- attacking pedos on the net using this kind of filter is the lowest common denominator; everyone hate pedos and not a lot of people will complain.
- the problem is, if we accept this as filesharers, we will accept anything, and any kind of tracking and restrictions
- this program CAN be used against music and movie swapping, as stated by the author of this software on their own website
- in any case, whatever you may all thing, the author of this article is NOT defending pedophilia or illegal activities; he&#039;s merely warning us, the people, about a dangerous trend in software that is a threat to privacy and many other civil liberties
- what hits me the most is that the only 2 commentaries to this article SOUNDS like they are the software makers themselves; only a total cretin could answer something like that

so on the total, even if the article is full of holes and isnt perfect, it did the job of warning me of the existence of COPWARE like this one, especially made with GPLed software by so called liberators

thank you
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i don&#8217;t think the guy writing this article was fundamentally wrong about it for a few reasons:</p>
<p>- attacking pedos on the net using this kind of filter is the lowest common denominator; everyone hate pedos and not a lot of people will complain.<br />
- the problem is, if we accept this as filesharers, we will accept anything, and any kind of tracking and restrictions<br />
- this program CAN be used against music and movie swapping, as stated by the author of this software on their own website<br />
- in any case, whatever you may all thing, the author of this article is NOT defending pedophilia or illegal activities; he&#8217;s merely warning us, the people, about a dangerous trend in software that is a threat to privacy and many other civil liberties<br />
- what hits me the most is that the only 2 commentaries to this article SOUNDS like they are the software makers themselves; only a total cretin could answer something like that</p>
<p>so on the total, even if the article is full of holes and isnt perfect, it did the job of warning me of the existence of COPWARE like this one, especially made with GPLed software by so called liberators</p>
<p>thank you</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/2259/comment-page-1#comment-6050</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Oct 2004 15:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-6050</guid>
		<description>you say :

&quot;Why the pedos first? Why those pogroms against them (not only on P2P)? Simply, because they are a very easy target to hit. They are such a stigmatized minority now, they could even be killed without hard consequences. Cops are quite cowards, they usually select the weakest possible target to gather experience. &quot;

perhaps you are a pedo to write this, hu ? we can supose this !!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you say :</p>
<p>&#8220;Why the pedos first? Why those pogroms against them (not only on P2P)? Simply, because they are a very easy target to hit. They are such a stigmatized minority now, they could even be killed without hard consequences. Cops are quite cowards, they usually select the weakest possible target to gather experience. &#8221;</p>
<p>perhaps you are a pedo to write this, hu ? we can supose this !!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/2259/comment-page-1#comment-6009</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Oct 2004 15:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-6009</guid>
		<description>Hello

A lot&#039;s of error in this article.
- LogProtect don&#039;t log children&#039;s activities, only protect
- LogP2P is only working to fight child pornography
- LogP2P don&#039;t works for majors
- and many other error in your article so...YOU seem to be paranoïd, it&#039;s a shame !!!

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello</p>
<p>A lot&#8217;s of error in this article.<br />
- LogProtect don&#8217;t log children&#8217;s activities, only protect<br />
- LogP2P is only working to fight child pornography<br />
- LogP2P don&#8217;t works for majors<br />
- and many other error in your article so&#8230;YOU seem to be paranoïd, it&#8217;s a shame !!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/2259/comment-page-1#comment-5808</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Sep 2004 06:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-5808</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not only the hubs under attack, but also the users:

P2P Networks endangered by LogP2P
============================
A depressing story

by benign

Long Title: Why LogP2P (and similar to follow) will destroy eMule and other Peer-to-Peer Networks, and
                 possible counter measures.
Keywords: eMule, P2P, RIAA, IFPI, MPAA, WIPO (TRIPs), , LogP2P, Surveillanceware, Censorware,
                  LogIRC, LogProtect, APF (AntiPedoFiles), Kazaa, Gnutella, eDonkey, MLdonkey,
                  Home_land Sec_urity.
 

INTRODUCTION
````````````````````````
In 2002, a coder named Frederic Aidouni and a cop named Philippe Jarlov together started at Bordeaux (France) production of surveillanceware called LogP2P. It  is based on experiences gathered earlier with another program called LogIRC, which was developped by Frederic Aidouni and Cyril Vrillaud in 2001, and which is now used by hundreds of law enforcement and security organizations in western oriented countries troughout the world, to track down people chatting and exchanging so called illegal content on IRC.  Jarlov is also involved in production of APF (AntiPedoFiles) a descriptive image database used by law enforcement organizations,  which can build up picture and file databases containing descriptive extracts of incriminated pictures and movies, which is essential for rapid recognition and catalogueing of such files. APF uses image recognition routines delivered by www.practeo.ch and  www.ltutech.com. Jarlov also developed LogProtect (together with Luc Bellego + Michael Ballester), a censorware content filter which is now used by paranoid parents (and schools) to block certain incoming internet content and to remove outgoing keywords like names, adresses and phone numbers (based on a keyword database). None would mind about this, but the program also logs every activity of the children using their computers, and sends silent alerts to the surveillor. Quite contrary to its appealing pretext of protection, in fact it serves for perfect censorship, surveillance and control of the children while they&#039;re unsuspectingly using the internet.


What is LogP2P and how is it working?
````````````````````````````````````````````````
First, LogP2P, despite using open software (linux + python + samba+ libpcap) is NOT open, but classified (a blattant GNU public license violation). Only cop- and anti-pedo organisations are able to get it by now (but they are already in negotiations to finance development by selling it to the copyright protection organisations).
LogP2P, running under Linux, is essentially a highly specialized network sniffer and  is used in combination with P2P clients (eMule, eDonkey, MLdonkey, Kazaa, Gnutella), logging the network traffic on their specific IP ports (i.e. 4662-4672 with eMule for example).
The data is logged and analyzed by LogP2P in realtime and derived results are shown in the GUI of LogP2P.
Given, an eMule client and LogP2P are running together on a computer, and a number of ed2k links are added to the download section of eMule. This will generate eMule network traffic, triggering LogP2P to log, analyze, and show numerous computed infos, which it is extracting from eMule traffic. For each file being downloaded by eMule, LogP2P will log and show, what IP numbers are sharing this file, how much of the file is already downloaded by every single IP adress,  lookup/whois result of each IP number,  which of the monitored files are being downloaded by the same IP number, time of downloading and lots more. Combined with lookup results, eventually all this gathered information will give an exact picture of who is/was downloading what file at what time, and also, if an already logged user is also downloading further tracked files. This enables whatever organization who owns and runs a copy of LogP2P, to setup a BigBrother-like, perfect and gapless surveillance on any subset of eMule users and/or shared files, which they are eager to control (ie. MP3 and OGG sound files by  RIAA and IFPI,  MPG +  AVI for  MPAA,  loli + r@ygold + hussyfan by the cops &amp; pedo hunters,  PDF files by the International Book Publishers Association, the users Monte Christo + Huckleberry Finn + Osama Bin Ladin by CIA and Dept. for Homeland Security, Software by WIPO (TRIPs), and so on.
And worse: Interested people can also share in eMule their own &quot;Honeypot&quot;, &quot;Trap&quot; and &quot;Lure&quot; files and track you down while you are downloading them, and afterwards &quot;harvest&quot; your hardware and/or the fines you&#039;ve been sentenced to pay. Easy money for cops, copyright- and pedo-hunters (and of course an easy way to get rid of political opponents), am I right?
Why the pedos first? Why those pogroms against them (not only on P2P)? Simply, because they are a very easy target to hit. They are such a stigmatized minority now, they could even be killed without hard consequences. Cops are quite cowards, they usually select the weakest possible target to gather experience.


Consequences of LogP2P operation
````````````````````````````````````````````
The consequences of prolonged monitoring with LogP2P by the mentioned organizations are already visible and future prospects can be figured out easily. If the file-sharing systems (including especially eMule) do not soon take efficient counter-measures, they will gradually die out from lack of users (only very few people can afford offshore hosting). With the aim of LogP2P (and similar software to come),  which is now run by several law enforcement facilities and certain private anti-pedo organisations from several countries, hundreds (or thousands ?) of P2P users, especially eMule users, have been tracked down since big logging business started. They have been arrested for months, ALL (!) their IT equipment and ALL (!) data media being confiscated, they are faceing endless and downwearing proceedings with harsh jail sentences and ruinous fines. Some of them even lost their jobs. Among them are numerous brothers (and sisters), which were contributing to our file sharing community with high amounts of money, programming skills, computing power and server time. It&#039;s worse: a growing number are uncautious youngsters, just curious and without any idea, what they are dealing with, still lacking the skills needed to hide their real IP adresses successfully. Those robberies of the police stand in blattant disparity to the cause. Their targets didn&#039;t  harm anyone, they just downloaded files which anyway are present millionfold in the internet.
LogP2P has grown a high risk and starts to cause devastating damage to the entire file sharing community. RIAA, IFPI and MPAA have just begun to evaluate LogP2P, or are developing similar Surveillanceware (source: personal communication), and it is only a question of time, when they will start to run their own logging business.


Antidotes against LogP2P
```````````````````````````````
There are two crucial facts a logger must proof, to win a trial against you:
First he must make sure, you really downloaded the COMPLETE file (if you only had part of the file, you will not be punishable). Second he must get proof of your real IP-Adress. At these points we can hook in:
1) eMule for example could be modified in such a way, that there is an additional download mode selectable, &#039;safe download&#039; or so. This kind of download would use an altered download scheme, which creates a double entry in the download section, splitting correspondingly the temp-file into part 1 +  2 of random size, but both of them showing the full length of the file, only that each of them says, the part which is represented by the other one, has already been downloaded (minor problem: both files with the same file name or better without?). As soon as one of the parts is complete, it switches into total silence, and if the other part completes, it switches into saying, that the data which was downloaded by the now silent part, has not been downloaded yet, and in parallel it stops generating download requests (or it sends only fake requests to clients, which do not have the corresponding data). In the end, you have downloaded the whole file, but split into two parts, one of them held in total silence, as if non existing, the other one saying to be still not complete, but not requesting anything. This leaves only the problem, how you take them
out from the downloading section and put them (puzzled together the right way) into a folder not shared.
As long as the files are located in the download folder, anyone who is tracking that file, will get the impression, you keep downloading, but still did not receive the file completely.  May be there is a better
solution, and the problem can be solved in complete virtuality, by faked communication. The same scheme
might be applied to add a &#039;safe release&#039; feature, too.
2) The &#039;safe download&#039; scheme, described above, should be enhanced further, every eMule client should have some kind of &#039;borrowable transit throughput slot&#039; acting as a proxy between a transmitting and a receiving client. This slot could be borrowed by any of the other clients wishing to download in safe mode for a certain amount of time. This will generate extra traffic, which might be limited. A file, which is downloaded in safe mode, would thus download more slowly, but secure in turn, as there is always (or at least sometimes) another, occasionally and randomly changing client in between (preferable for each of the two file parts a different one), acting as proxy.  Anyone who is tracking that file, would not only log real clients, but also some phantom clients downloading that file, and more important, some false IP numbers in consequence. But only, if the phantoms behave sufficiently genuine, and are not easily distinguished from real clients (i.e. they  should download realistic portions of a file; this is, why the concept might fail with small files).
It is undesirable for a prosecutor, to accuse the wrong person, as this will generate very embarassing situations, and worse, it will cause very high compensation claims, which usually are successful, if the court does not recognize any evidence for an accusation.
If the above mentioned antidotes are applied alltogether, they will turn LogP2P useless, as a logger could never be sure, whether a file is downloaded normally or in safe mode, thus showing him only incomplete downloads, or worse, setting him under high risk of tracking down false IP numbers.

One could plug together the (very secure) Freenet client with eMule somehow, to have the advantages of both of them.  But most people are not really lucky with freenet, as it is generating tremendous overhead.  There is always a  tradeoff between security and loss of bandwidth. The antidotes mentioned above generate much less overhead, as they rely on ambiguity rather than perfect safety. From a legal standpoint of view, ambiguity does  the job as well, generating a sufficient level of safety. Total security would be suitable under military conditions only, I think.

Summary
````````````
There has formed a conglomerate of officials, private people and private organisations on the extreme right, spanning several european countries, consisting in detail of software developpers, cops and very rich people with strong influence and high financial resources, which succeded in developping and operating software to track down and denounce on a massive scale P2P users downloading files via P2P clients.

List of Persons involved (until June 2004)
``````````````````````````````````````````````````
Frederic Aidouni  (Frederic: both &#039;e&#039; with accent egu)
  Owner of the software company named @idounix
  Co-developer of  LogP2P,  LogIRC
  &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;
  Algerian descendant. Completely mad; one of his relatives, Bachir Aidouni, was drown in
  the Seine at Paris by french cops during 1961, now he is serving exactly those cops, who
  murdered his relative.
  Relatives: 1yo daughter &lt;name not visible for privacy reasons&gt;
                    18yo &lt;name and adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;
                     
Philippe Jarlov
  Rank: Adjutant, Gendarmerie Nationale de France, Section Recherche at Bordeaux-Battesti
  Co-developer of LogP2P, LogProtect, APF. 
  &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;
  Jewish roots; from eastern europe (may be Poland). End jews as cops, if they loose their roots?
  Relatives: François Jarlov (Wife: Ulla), Artisan, Poterie du Héron, 40660 Messanges, France

Michael Ballester  (Michael: &#039;e&#039; with two points on it)  Co-Developer of LogProtect
  &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;
Luc Bellego  (Quebec, Canada)  Co-Developer of LogProtect
   &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;
Cyril Vrillaud Co-Developer of LogIRC
   &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;

Pascal Seeger, Carouge/GE (former cop at Groupe de criminalite informatique de Genève) now
working as technical advisor at Action Innocence Group,  webmaster of www.e-prevention.ch
   &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;
   Relatives: Seeger-Neyroud Sandra (wife ?), &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;
                     Seeger Gertrude Paula, &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;

Sellier Homayra
   &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;
   President of Action Innocence Group

David Royston
   &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;
   Technical advisor at Action Innocence Group

Philipp Kronig, Chief Officer  KOBIK/SCOCI (Switzerland)
   &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;
Eva Bollmann,  Analyst at KOBIK/SCOCI
   &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;
Marc Henhauer, KOBIK/SCOCI
   &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;
                           (KOBIK = Koordinationsstelle zur Bekämpfung der Internetkriminalität )

List of Organizations involved (until June 2004)
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
@idounix, Rue Père Louis de Jabrun 21, 33000 Bordeaux  (Dept. Gironde FR)
President: Frederic Aidouni
www.aidounix.com                    IP: 213.246.36.90

AIG (Action Innocence Group)   Geneva (CH), Monaco (MC), Paris (FR), Bruxelles (BE)
President: Homayra Sellier
www.actioninnocence.org         IP:   62.50.74.218
actioninnocence.org                  IP:   62.50.74.219
Mrs. Sellier is extremely rich, due to her marriage with one of the richest men in Switzerland.
Presumably, she is financing most of the activities of the organisation. Now and again, she
organizes caritative gala events for the international  jet-set, with such illustre guests as the
princess of Monaco, to rise additional funds for her organization.
As the slogan &#039;innocence in danger&#039; already indicates, this group promotes an extremly
paranoid and antisexual &#039;philosophy&#039; or rather attitude. Since the belgian crime case Dutroux,
the group turned into complete hysteria, and in consequence they instrumentalize each minor
incidence to demand more repression and control (especially concerning the internet).
Action Innocence Group is running LogP2P on their servers, and is believed to offer
childporn honeypot-, lure-, and trap-files for download over P2P-Networks and IRC, too.
The organization serves as a half-legal tracker and denouncer for corresponding governmental
offices.

Action Innocence Suisse, 19 rue des Vollandes, 1207 Genève - Suisse
Tél: (+41) 22 735 50 02, Fax: (+41) 22 735 51 02
E-mail: suisse@actioninnocence.org
www.actioninnocence.org         IP: 62.50.74.219
                                                IP: 62.50.74.0-255   (at least whole subnet class c)
received  from psinet provider   IP: 62.50.64.0 - 62.50.95.255
(former psinet, now psineteurope, owned by VIA Networks)

Subsidiaries:
Action Innocence Monaco, Europa Résidence, Place des Moulins 43,
          98000 Monaco, Tél: +377 97 77 51 11
          E-mail: monaco@actioninnocence.org
          financed by the monegassian royal family
Action Innocence France, Av. Victor Hugo 181, 75116 Paris - France
         Tél: +33 01 44 05 05 33, E-mail: france@actioninnocence.org
Action Innocence Belgique, 62 boulevard de la Cambre
         1050 Bruxelles - Belgique, Tél: 02 626 20 00, Fax: 02 626 20 06
          E-mail: belgique@actioninnocence.org

e-Prevention (www.e-prevention.ch), c/o Original S.A. , Belle Combe 30, 1095 Lutry (CH)
President: Paul Seeger
www.e-prevention.ch                   IP:   62.50.74.219    (same as actioninnocence.org)

Royston Consulting, Avenue Bella-Vista 9,1234 Vessy/GE
President: David Royston
www.royston-consulting.com       IP: 212.74.183.248

Innocence en Danger, Rue des Vollandes 19, 1207 Genève (CH)
President: Wertheimer Valerie
www.innocenceindanger.org        IP:   80.247.227.71
(do&#039;nt mix up with &quot;La Flotille&quot;, a day-nursery for 70 children, at the same adress)

Logprotect Distribution
President: Phillipe Jarlov
www.logprotect.org                     IP:   213.186.33.19
www.logprotect.net                     IP:   217.174.203.209
www.rivageslointains.com            IP:   213.186.33.3
www.practeo.ch                          IP:   62.220.134.98
www.ltutech.com                         IP:   213.41.68.100

IRCGN (Institut de recherche criminelle de la gendarmerie nationale), Europol, Rosny-sous-Bois (Cedex)
Responsible: Capitaine Eric Freyssinet
STRJD (Service technique recherche judiciaire et documentation), cellule de veille internet, Europol,
Responsible: Lieutenant-Colonel Joseph Candalot
Gendarmerie Nationale de France,
   Section de Recherche Bordeaux-Battesti (Gironde), 
   Service de lutte contre la cybercriminalite
www.defense.gouv.fr                  IP:   195.46.214.111  
                                                  IP:   195.46.214.0-255   (at least whole subnet class c)
IRCGN are running LogP2P on their servers.

KOBIK (Koordinationsstelle zur Bekämpfung der Internetkriminalität)
SCOCI (Service de Coordination Criminalite sur Internet)
President: Philipp Kronig
www.cybercrime.admin.ch         IP:   162.23.39.65
and  www.fedpol.ch                   IP:   162.23.39.65
                                                  IP:    162.23.39.0-255   (at least whole subnet class c)
KOBIK/SCOCI are running LogP2P on their servers.

www.kkjpd.ch                           IP: 195.65.77.20
etat.ge.ch                                    IP: 195.65.37.72
www.geneve.ch                          IP: 160.53.186.105 160.53.186.12
proxytst3.etat-ge.ch                    IP: 160.53.250.102
www.polizei.adminbs.ch              IP: 193.135.25.50
prow3stat1.bs.ch                        IP: 193.135.25.53
www.jd.bs.ch                             IP: 193.135.25.57
www.ji.zh.ch                              IP: 212.47.173.17
www.kapo.zh.ch                        IP: 212.47.173.17
(bei aspectra.net)                        IP: 212.47.170.0 - 212.47.173.255
Router:                                       IP: 212.47.172.0-23

IMPORTANT !
Please, spread this contribution to whatever P2P- and Internet-Freedom Forum/Chatroom you know !
Traduisez cette contribution en francais et diffusez dans tous les lieux P2P, etc.  vous connaissez, svp !

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not only the hubs under attack, but also the users:</p>
<p>P2P Networks endangered by LogP2P<br />
============================<br />
A depressing story</p>
<p>by benign</p>
<p>Long Title: Why LogP2P (and similar to follow) will destroy eMule and other Peer-to-Peer Networks, and<br />
                 possible counter measures.<br />
Keywords: eMule, P2P, RIAA, IFPI, MPAA, WIPO (TRIPs), , LogP2P, Surveillanceware, Censorware,<br />
                  LogIRC, LogProtect, APF (AntiPedoFiles), Kazaa, Gnutella, eDonkey, MLdonkey,<br />
                  Home_land Sec_urity.</p>
<p>INTRODUCTION<br />
&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;<br />
In 2002, a coder named Frederic Aidouni and a cop named Philippe Jarlov together started at Bordeaux (France) production of surveillanceware called LogP2P. It  is based on experiences gathered earlier with another program called LogIRC, which was developped by Frederic Aidouni and Cyril Vrillaud in 2001, and which is now used by hundreds of law enforcement and security organizations in western oriented countries troughout the world, to track down people chatting and exchanging so called illegal content on IRC.  Jarlov is also involved in production of APF (AntiPedoFiles) a descriptive image database used by law enforcement organizations,  which can build up picture and file databases containing descriptive extracts of incriminated pictures and movies, which is essential for rapid recognition and catalogueing of such files. APF uses image recognition routines delivered by <a href="http://www.practeo.ch" rel="nofollow">http://www.practeo.ch</a> and  <a href="http://www.ltutech.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.ltutech.com</a>. Jarlov also developed LogProtect (together with Luc Bellego + Michael Ballester), a censorware content filter which is now used by paranoid parents (and schools) to block certain incoming internet content and to remove outgoing keywords like names, adresses and phone numbers (based on a keyword database). None would mind about this, but the program also logs every activity of the children using their computers, and sends silent alerts to the surveillor. Quite contrary to its appealing pretext of protection, in fact it serves for perfect censorship, surveillance and control of the children while they&#8217;re unsuspectingly using the internet.</p>
<p>What is LogP2P and how is it working?<br />
&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;<br />
First, LogP2P, despite using open software (linux + python + samba+ libpcap) is NOT open, but classified (a blattant GNU public license violation). Only cop- and anti-pedo organisations are able to get it by now (but they are already in negotiations to finance development by selling it to the copyright protection organisations).<br />
LogP2P, running under Linux, is essentially a highly specialized network sniffer and  is used in combination with P2P clients (eMule, eDonkey, MLdonkey, Kazaa, Gnutella), logging the network traffic on their specific IP ports (i.e. 4662-4672 with eMule for example).<br />
The data is logged and analyzed by LogP2P in realtime and derived results are shown in the GUI of LogP2P.<br />
Given, an eMule client and LogP2P are running together on a computer, and a number of ed2k links are added to the download section of eMule. This will generate eMule network traffic, triggering LogP2P to log, analyze, and show numerous computed infos, which it is extracting from eMule traffic. For each file being downloaded by eMule, LogP2P will log and show, what IP numbers are sharing this file, how much of the file is already downloaded by every single IP adress,  lookup/whois result of each IP number,  which of the monitored files are being downloaded by the same IP number, time of downloading and lots more. Combined with lookup results, eventually all this gathered information will give an exact picture of who is/was downloading what file at what time, and also, if an already logged user is also downloading further tracked files. This enables whatever organization who owns and runs a copy of LogP2P, to setup a BigBrother-like, perfect and gapless surveillance on any subset of eMule users and/or shared files, which they are eager to control (ie. MP3 and OGG sound files by  RIAA and IFPI,  MPG +  AVI for  MPAA,  loli + r@ygold + hussyfan by the cops &#038; pedo hunters,  PDF files by the International Book Publishers Association, the users Monte Christo + Huckleberry Finn + Osama Bin Ladin by CIA and Dept. for Homeland Security, Software by WIPO (TRIPs), and so on.<br />
And worse: Interested people can also share in eMule their own &#8220;Honeypot&#8221;, &#8220;Trap&#8221; and &#8220;Lure&#8221; files and track you down while you are downloading them, and afterwards &#8220;harvest&#8221; your hardware and/or the fines you&#8217;ve been sentenced to pay. Easy money for cops, copyright- and pedo-hunters (and of course an easy way to get rid of political opponents), am I right?<br />
Why the pedos first? Why those pogroms against them (not only on P2P)? Simply, because they are a very easy target to hit. They are such a stigmatized minority now, they could even be killed without hard consequences. Cops are quite cowards, they usually select the weakest possible target to gather experience.</p>
<p>Consequences of LogP2P operation<br />
&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;<br />
The consequences of prolonged monitoring with LogP2P by the mentioned organizations are already visible and future prospects can be figured out easily. If the file-sharing systems (including especially eMule) do not soon take efficient counter-measures, they will gradually die out from lack of users (only very few people can afford offshore hosting). With the aim of LogP2P (and similar software to come),  which is now run by several law enforcement facilities and certain private anti-pedo organisations from several countries, hundreds (or thousands ?) of P2P users, especially eMule users, have been tracked down since big logging business started. They have been arrested for months, ALL (!) their IT equipment and ALL (!) data media being confiscated, they are faceing endless and downwearing proceedings with harsh jail sentences and ruinous fines. Some of them even lost their jobs. Among them are numerous brothers (and sisters), which were contributing to our file sharing community with high amounts of money, programming skills, computing power and server time. It&#8217;s worse: a growing number are uncautious youngsters, just curious and without any idea, what they are dealing with, still lacking the skills needed to hide their real IP adresses successfully. Those robberies of the police stand in blattant disparity to the cause. Their targets didn&#8217;t  harm anyone, they just downloaded files which anyway are present millionfold in the internet.<br />
LogP2P has grown a high risk and starts to cause devastating damage to the entire file sharing community. RIAA, IFPI and MPAA have just begun to evaluate LogP2P, or are developing similar Surveillanceware (source: personal communication), and it is only a question of time, when they will start to run their own logging business.</p>
<p>Antidotes against LogP2P<br />
&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;`<br />
There are two crucial facts a logger must proof, to win a trial against you:<br />
First he must make sure, you really downloaded the COMPLETE file (if you only had part of the file, you will not be punishable). Second he must get proof of your real IP-Adress. At these points we can hook in:<br />
1) eMule for example could be modified in such a way, that there is an additional download mode selectable, &#8217;safe download&#8217; or so. This kind of download would use an altered download scheme, which creates a double entry in the download section, splitting correspondingly the temp-file into part 1 +  2 of random size, but both of them showing the full length of the file, only that each of them says, the part which is represented by the other one, has already been downloaded (minor problem: both files with the same file name or better without?). As soon as one of the parts is complete, it switches into total silence, and if the other part completes, it switches into saying, that the data which was downloaded by the now silent part, has not been downloaded yet, and in parallel it stops generating download requests (or it sends only fake requests to clients, which do not have the corresponding data). In the end, you have downloaded the whole file, but split into two parts, one of them held in total silence, as if non existing, the other one saying to be still not complete, but not requesting anything. This leaves only the problem, how you take them<br />
out from the downloading section and put them (puzzled together the right way) into a folder not shared.<br />
As long as the files are located in the download folder, anyone who is tracking that file, will get the impression, you keep downloading, but still did not receive the file completely.  May be there is a better<br />
solution, and the problem can be solved in complete virtuality, by faked communication. The same scheme<br />
might be applied to add a &#8217;safe release&#8217; feature, too.<br />
2) The &#8217;safe download&#8217; scheme, described above, should be enhanced further, every eMule client should have some kind of &#8216;borrowable transit throughput slot&#8217; acting as a proxy between a transmitting and a receiving client. This slot could be borrowed by any of the other clients wishing to download in safe mode for a certain amount of time. This will generate extra traffic, which might be limited. A file, which is downloaded in safe mode, would thus download more slowly, but secure in turn, as there is always (or at least sometimes) another, occasionally and randomly changing client in between (preferable for each of the two file parts a different one), acting as proxy.  Anyone who is tracking that file, would not only log real clients, but also some phantom clients downloading that file, and more important, some false IP numbers in consequence. But only, if the phantoms behave sufficiently genuine, and are not easily distinguished from real clients (i.e. they  should download realistic portions of a file; this is, why the concept might fail with small files).<br />
It is undesirable for a prosecutor, to accuse the wrong person, as this will generate very embarassing situations, and worse, it will cause very high compensation claims, which usually are successful, if the court does not recognize any evidence for an accusation.<br />
If the above mentioned antidotes are applied alltogether, they will turn LogP2P useless, as a logger could never be sure, whether a file is downloaded normally or in safe mode, thus showing him only incomplete downloads, or worse, setting him under high risk of tracking down false IP numbers.</p>
<p>One could plug together the (very secure) Freenet client with eMule somehow, to have the advantages of both of them.  But most people are not really lucky with freenet, as it is generating tremendous overhead.  There is always a  tradeoff between security and loss of bandwidth. The antidotes mentioned above generate much less overhead, as they rely on ambiguity rather than perfect safety. From a legal standpoint of view, ambiguity does  the job as well, generating a sufficient level of safety. Total security would be suitable under military conditions only, I think.</p>
<p>Summary<br />
&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;<br />
There has formed a conglomerate of officials, private people and private organisations on the extreme right, spanning several european countries, consisting in detail of software developpers, cops and very rich people with strong influence and high financial resources, which succeded in developping and operating software to track down and denounce on a massive scale P2P users downloading files via P2P clients.</p>
<p>List of Persons involved (until June 2004)<br />
&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;<br />
Frederic Aidouni  (Frederic: both &#8216;e&#8217; with accent egu)<br />
  Owner of the software company named @idounix<br />
  Co-developer of  LogP2P,  LogIRC<br />
  &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;<br />
  Algerian descendant. Completely mad; one of his relatives, Bachir Aidouni, was drown in<br />
  the Seine at Paris by french cops during 1961, now he is serving exactly those cops, who<br />
  murdered his relative.<br />
  Relatives: 1yo daughter &lt;name not visible for privacy reasons&gt;<br />
                    18yo &lt;name and adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;</p>
<p>Philippe Jarlov<br />
  Rank: Adjutant, Gendarmerie Nationale de France, Section Recherche at Bordeaux-Battesti<br />
  Co-developer of LogP2P, LogProtect, APF.<br />
  &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;<br />
  Jewish roots; from eastern europe (may be Poland). End jews as cops, if they loose their roots?<br />
  Relatives: François Jarlov (Wife: Ulla), Artisan, Poterie du Héron, 40660 Messanges, France</p>
<p>Michael Ballester  (Michael: &#8216;e&#8217; with two points on it)  Co-Developer of LogProtect<br />
  &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;<br />
Luc Bellego  (Quebec, Canada)  Co-Developer of LogProtect<br />
   &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;<br />
Cyril Vrillaud Co-Developer of LogIRC<br />
   &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;</p>
<p>Pascal Seeger, Carouge/GE (former cop at Groupe de criminalite informatique de Genève) now<br />
working as technical advisor at Action Innocence Group,  webmaster of <a href="http://www.e-prevention.ch" rel="nofollow">http://www.e-prevention.ch</a><br />
   &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;<br />
   Relatives: Seeger-Neyroud Sandra (wife ?), &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;<br />
                     Seeger Gertrude Paula, &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;</p>
<p>Sellier Homayra<br />
   &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;<br />
   President of Action Innocence Group</p>
<p>David Royston<br />
   &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;<br />
   Technical advisor at Action Innocence Group</p>
<p>Philipp Kronig, Chief Officer  KOBIK/SCOCI (Switzerland)<br />
   &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;<br />
Eva Bollmann,  Analyst at KOBIK/SCOCI<br />
   &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;<br />
Marc Henhauer, KOBIK/SCOCI<br />
   &lt;adress not visible for privacy reasons&gt;<br />
                           (KOBIK = Koordinationsstelle zur Bekämpfung der Internetkriminalität )</p>
<p>List of Organizations involved (until June 2004)<br />
&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;&#8220;`<br />
@idounix, Rue Père Louis de Jabrun 21, 33000 Bordeaux  (Dept. Gironde FR)<br />
President: Frederic Aidouni<br />
<a href="http://www.aidounix.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.aidounix.com</a>                    IP: 213.246.36.90</p>
<p>AIG (Action Innocence Group)   Geneva (CH), Monaco (MC), Paris (FR), Bruxelles (BE)<br />
President: Homayra Sellier<br />
<a href="http://www.actioninnocence.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.actioninnocence.org</a>         IP:   62.50.74.218<br />
actioninnocence.org                  IP:   62.50.74.219<br />
Mrs. Sellier is extremely rich, due to her marriage with one of the richest men in Switzerland.<br />
Presumably, she is financing most of the activities of the organisation. Now and again, she<br />
organizes caritative gala events for the international  jet-set, with such illustre guests as the<br />
princess of Monaco, to rise additional funds for her organization.<br />
As the slogan &#8216;innocence in danger&#8217; already indicates, this group promotes an extremly<br />
paranoid and antisexual &#8216;philosophy&#8217; or rather attitude. Since the belgian crime case Dutroux,<br />
the group turned into complete hysteria, and in consequence they instrumentalize each minor<br />
incidence to demand more repression and control (especially concerning the internet).<br />
Action Innocence Group is running LogP2P on their servers, and is believed to offer<br />
childporn honeypot-, lure-, and trap-files for download over P2P-Networks and IRC, too.<br />
The organization serves as a half-legal tracker and denouncer for corresponding governmental<br />
offices.</p>
<p>Action Innocence Suisse, 19 rue des Vollandes, 1207 Genève &#8211; Suisse<br />
Tél: (+41) 22 735 50 02, Fax: (+41) 22 735 51 02<br />
E-mail: <a href="mailto:suisse@actioninnocence.org">suisse@actioninnocence.org</a><br />
<a href="http://www.actioninnocence.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.actioninnocence.org</a>         IP: 62.50.74.219<br />
                                                IP: 62.50.74.0-255   (at least whole subnet class c)<br />
received  from psinet provider   IP: 62.50.64.0 &#8211; 62.50.95.255<br />
(former psinet, now psineteurope, owned by VIA Networks)</p>
<p>Subsidiaries:<br />
Action Innocence Monaco, Europa Résidence, Place des Moulins 43,<br />
          98000 Monaco, Tél: +377 97 77 51 11<br />
          E-mail: <a href="mailto:monaco@actioninnocence.org">monaco@actioninnocence.org</a><br />
          financed by the monegassian royal family<br />
Action Innocence France, Av. Victor Hugo 181, 75116 Paris &#8211; France<br />
         Tél: +33 01 44 05 05 33, E-mail: <a href="mailto:france@actioninnocence.org">france@actioninnocence.org</a><br />
Action Innocence Belgique, 62 boulevard de la Cambre<br />
         1050 Bruxelles &#8211; Belgique, Tél: 02 626 20 00, Fax: 02 626 20 06<br />
          E-mail: <a href="mailto:belgique@actioninnocence.org">belgique@actioninnocence.org</a></p>
<p>e-Prevention (www.e-prevention.ch), c/o Original S.A. , Belle Combe 30, 1095 Lutry (CH)<br />
President: Paul Seeger<br />
<a href="http://www.e-prevention.ch" rel="nofollow">http://www.e-prevention.ch</a>                   IP:   62.50.74.219    (same as actioninnocence.org)</p>
<p>Royston Consulting, Avenue Bella-Vista 9,1234 Vessy/GE<br />
President: David Royston<br />
<a href="http://www.royston-consulting.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.royston-consulting.com</a>       IP: 212.74.183.248</p>
<p>Innocence en Danger, Rue des Vollandes 19, 1207 Genève (CH)<br />
President: Wertheimer Valerie<br />
<a href="http://www.innocenceindanger.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.innocenceindanger.org</a>        IP:   80.247.227.71<br />
(do&#8217;nt mix up with &#8220;La Flotille&#8221;, a day-nursery for 70 children, at the same adress)</p>
<p>Logprotect Distribution<br />
President: Phillipe Jarlov<br />
<a href="http://www.logprotect.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.logprotect.org</a>                     IP:   213.186.33.19<br />
<a href="http://www.logprotect.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.logprotect.net</a>                     IP:   217.174.203.209<br />
<a href="http://www.rivageslointains.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.rivageslointains.com</a>            IP:   213.186.33.3<br />
<a href="http://www.practeo.ch" rel="nofollow">http://www.practeo.ch</a>                          IP:   62.220.134.98<br />
<a href="http://www.ltutech.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.ltutech.com</a>                         IP:   213.41.68.100</p>
<p>IRCGN (Institut de recherche criminelle de la gendarmerie nationale), Europol, Rosny-sous-Bois (Cedex)<br />
Responsible: Capitaine Eric Freyssinet<br />
STRJD (Service technique recherche judiciaire et documentation), cellule de veille internet, Europol,<br />
Responsible: Lieutenant-Colonel Joseph Candalot<br />
Gendarmerie Nationale de France,<br />
   Section de Recherche Bordeaux-Battesti (Gironde),<br />
   Service de lutte contre la cybercriminalite<br />
<a href="http://www.defense.gouv.fr" rel="nofollow">http://www.defense.gouv.fr</a>                  IP:   195.46.214.111<br />
                                                  IP:   195.46.214.0-255   (at least whole subnet class c)<br />
IRCGN are running LogP2P on their servers.</p>
<p>KOBIK (Koordinationsstelle zur Bekämpfung der Internetkriminalität)<br />
SCOCI (Service de Coordination Criminalite sur Internet)<br />
President: Philipp Kronig<br />
<a href="http://www.cybercrime.admin.ch" rel="nofollow">http://www.cybercrime.admin.ch</a>         IP:   162.23.39.65<br />
and  <a href="http://www.fedpol.ch" rel="nofollow">http://www.fedpol.ch</a>                   IP:   162.23.39.65<br />
                                                  IP:    162.23.39.0-255   (at least whole subnet class c)<br />
KOBIK/SCOCI are running LogP2P on their servers.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.kkjpd.ch" rel="nofollow">http://www.kkjpd.ch</a>                           IP: 195.65.77.20<br />
etat.ge.ch                                    IP: 195.65.37.72<br />
<a href="http://www.geneve.ch" rel="nofollow">http://www.geneve.ch</a>                          IP: 160.53.186.105 160.53.186.12<br />
proxytst3.etat-ge.ch                    IP: 160.53.250.102<br />
<a href="http://www.polizei.adminbs.ch" rel="nofollow">http://www.polizei.adminbs.ch</a>              IP: 193.135.25.50<br />
prow3stat1.bs.ch                        IP: 193.135.25.53<br />
<a href="http://www.jd.bs.ch" rel="nofollow">http://www.jd.bs.ch</a>                             IP: 193.135.25.57<br />
<a href="http://www.ji.zh.ch" rel="nofollow">http://www.ji.zh.ch</a>                              IP: 212.47.173.17<br />
<a href="http://www.kapo.zh.ch" rel="nofollow">http://www.kapo.zh.ch</a>                        IP: 212.47.173.17<br />
(bei aspectra.net)                        IP: 212.47.170.0 &#8211; 212.47.173.255<br />
Router:                                       IP: 212.47.172.0-23</p>
<p>IMPORTANT !<br />
Please, spread this contribution to whatever P2P- and Internet-Freedom Forum/Chatroom you know !<br />
Traduisez cette contribution en francais et diffusez dans tous les lieux P2P, etc.  vous connaissez, svp !</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/2259/comment-page-1#comment-5461</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:04:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-5461</guid>
		<description>To  find out another way people are stilling   music  thru  the internet..this program is known as PALTALK.COM  ....people log in that program that is a video cam and sound combination good for conferencing...as example  &quot; MANICOMIO SALSERO CUBANO BORICUA&quot;  they get toguether in this chat  room ( music  video ) at any other browser  they log in at SOULSEEK.com  download thousands  thousands of  music files  ....the recipient need to have download the program WINRAR ( at WINRAR .com) in other to  unsip the files ..they send each others files thru MSN messenger ...Yahoo messenger or pal talk files transfers in orders to still all kind of music new releases as 2004  new albums . playing  the music in the chat room &quot;MANICOMIO SALSERO CUBANO BORICUA  test  how they sound and they feel heroes doing it. they share  with another people   the same way ( open msn messenger or yahoo messenger  and they send the files on and on and on. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To  find out another way people are stilling   music  thru  the internet..this program is known as PALTALK.COM  &#8230;.people log in that program that is a video cam and sound combination good for conferencing&#8230;as example  &#8221; MANICOMIO SALSERO CUBANO BORICUA&#8221;  they get toguether in this chat  room ( music  video ) at any other browser  they log in at SOULSEEK.com  download thousands  thousands of  music files  &#8230;.the recipient need to have download the program WINRAR ( at WINRAR .com) in other to  unsip the files ..they send each others files thru MSN messenger &#8230;Yahoo messenger or pal talk files transfers in orders to still all kind of music new releases as 2004  new albums . playing  the music in the chat room &#8220;MANICOMIO SALSERO CUBANO BORICUA  test  how they sound and they feel heroes doing it. they share  with another people   the same way ( open msn messenger or yahoo messenger  and they send the files on and on and on.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/2259/comment-page-1#comment-4934</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2004 00:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4934</guid>
		<description>What is a &quot;Brian&quot; anyways....OH...you mean a BRAIN.....

Maybe if yours wasn&#039;t planted firmly up your 4th point of contact you would understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is a &#8220;Brian&#8221; anyways&#8230;.OH&#8230;you mean a BRAIN&#8230;..</p>
<p>Maybe if yours wasn&#8217;t planted firmly up your 4th point of contact you would understand.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/2259/comment-page-1#comment-4933</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2004 22:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4933</guid>
		<description>oo im so trying 2 understand the Mr anonyms that is a PRO @ dc and commmunity.... and well ya have a point  G ....

its LOL

G2 hehe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oo im so trying 2 understand the Mr anonyms that is a PRO @ dc and commmunity&#8230;. and well ya have a point  G &#8230;.</p>
<p>its LOL</p>
<p>G2 hehe</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/2259/comment-page-1#comment-4911</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2004 05:38:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4911</guid>
		<description>... there is no invite to a public hub. The FREE software that you download (Direct Connect) comes with a list of public hubs. You double click on one and you connect. That&#039;s it... no fancy magic. =)

This is one of the fundamental problems with this entire situation - PEOPLE HAVE NO CLUE what they are talking about, yet they continue to spew it out to the press and anywhere that will listen or let them type.

~G</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; there is no invite to a public hub. The FREE software that you download (Direct Connect) comes with a list of public hubs. You double click on one and you connect. That&#8217;s it&#8230; no fancy magic. =)</p>
<p>This is one of the fundamental problems with this entire situation &#8211; PEOPLE HAVE NO CLUE what they are talking about, yet they continue to spew it out to the press and anywhere that will listen or let them type.</p>
<p>~G</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/2259/comment-page-1#comment-4910</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2004 05:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4910</guid>
		<description>lol

Umm, what?

~G</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol</p>
<p>Umm, what?</p>
<p>~G</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/2259/comment-page-1#comment-4902</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2004 00:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4902</guid>
		<description>Ok..hmm Mr Anonyms... it seems like ya are a PRO  @..DC and ya wanna know something Me that still is a newbie got it more right
then you ever gonna get
Lemme tell ya Only this

first get ya FACTS right before you try 2 make a point!!!!!!!

&quot; Do you know there is a thing called &quot;brian&quot;  inside your******

Now lets se if you get that one..right!!!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok..hmm Mr Anonyms&#8230; it seems like ya are a PRO  @..DC and ya wanna know something Me that still is a newbie got it more right<br />
then you ever gonna get<br />
Lemme tell ya Only this</p>
<p>first get ya FACTS right before you try 2 make a point!!!!!!!</p>
<p>&#8221; Do you know there is a thing called &#8220;brian&#8221;  inside your******</p>
<p>Now lets se if you get that one..right!!!!!!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/2259/comment-page-1#comment-4898</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Aug 2004 21:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4898</guid>
		<description>Actually, nothing was touched - it was an honest mistake on the part of UDG supporters. Go here for an update ----

----http://p2pnet.net/story/2269

Cheers! - August 29 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, nothing was touched &#8211; it was an honest mistake on the part of UDG supporters. Go here for an update &#8212;-</p>
<p>&#8212;-http://p2pnet.net/story/2269</p>
<p>Cheers! &#8211; August 29</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/2259/comment-page-1#comment-4861</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Aug 2004 05:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4861</guid>
		<description>However, since anyone can open a hub on a whim (anyone can do it at home, for example yourself you could have a hub running in less than one hour), it&#039;s kinda pointless to &quot;shut down&quot; some hubs, since they&#039;ll keep popping up...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>However, since anyone can open a hub on a whim (anyone can do it at home, for example yourself you could have a hub running in less than one hour), it&#8217;s kinda pointless to &#8220;shut down&#8221; some hubs, since they&#8217;ll keep popping up&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/2259/comment-page-1#comment-4860</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Aug 2004 05:03:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4860</guid>
		<description>The thing you don&#039;t seem to understand is that &quot;the Underground network&quot; is just a name. The only links between the Hubs is a list where they will redirect users if they are full. However, any hub can do that, regardless of another hub&#039;s consent. In other words, there is no physical &quot;underground network&quot;.

I could find copyrighted files from searching google, but that doesn&#039;t make google an illegal network because it could connect me with a website offering illegal stuff.

Some people could start an &quot;Underground network&quot; on Yahoo messenger, trading files and so on. It also happens on Mirc. Should we shut down messenger services and Undernet (or other Mirc networks)?

The only reason we&#039;ve come here is because some stupid people thought that shutting down Napster and some other programs would stop piracy (which it hasn&#039;t... in other words it was inneffective and counter productive).

The capitalist economy has proven times and times again that legal restriction won&#039;t stop things like piracy, since piracy plays a role in the current economy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing you don&#8217;t seem to understand is that &#8220;the Underground network&#8221; is just a name. The only links between the Hubs is a list where they will redirect users if they are full. However, any hub can do that, regardless of another hub&#8217;s consent. In other words, there is no physical &#8220;underground network&#8221;.</p>
<p>I could find copyrighted files from searching google, but that doesn&#8217;t make google an illegal network because it could connect me with a website offering illegal stuff.</p>
<p>Some people could start an &#8220;Underground network&#8221; on Yahoo messenger, trading files and so on. It also happens on Mirc. Should we shut down messenger services and Undernet (or other Mirc networks)?</p>
<p>The only reason we&#8217;ve come here is because some stupid people thought that shutting down Napster and some other programs would stop piracy (which it hasn&#8217;t&#8230; in other words it was inneffective and counter productive).</p>
<p>The capitalist economy has proven times and times again that legal restriction won&#8217;t stop things like piracy, since piracy plays a role in the current economy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/2259/comment-page-1#comment-4848</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Aug 2004 01:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4848</guid>
		<description>At what time will law conform to society? What is the DOJ going to do when they find out 90% of the online community is guilty of piracy in some form? Martial Internet Law!!! I say change the law. Add a stupid media tax to ISP charges to shut the studios and companies up. Yes, I would pay up to $5.00 per month as a charity to keep the DOJ off P2P networks backs. Backward blackmail if you would. Where was the DOJ when the Dual tape deck debut? Heres an Idea. Lets just start P2P Lan Partys. No wireless nics alowed. Then what? Outright Invation of Privacy?
POed
LawBooks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At what time will law conform to society? What is the DOJ going to do when they find out 90% of the online community is guilty of piracy in some form? Martial Internet Law!!! I say change the law. Add a stupid media tax to ISP charges to shut the studios and companies up. Yes, I would pay up to $5.00 per month as a charity to keep the DOJ off P2P networks backs. Backward blackmail if you would. Where was the DOJ when the Dual tape deck debut? Heres an Idea. Lets just start P2P Lan Partys. No wireless nics alowed. Then what? Outright Invation of Privacy?<br />
POed<br />
LawBooks</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/2259/comment-page-1#comment-4846</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Aug 2004 00:57:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4846</guid>
		<description>One of the most factual comments here. Unfortunate those guys are being harassed like they are. But if the Gestapo, er, Ashcroft, continues to reign with their long, long arm of the law... well, we&#039;re all in for some undue trouble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the most factual comments here. Unfortunate those guys are being harassed like they are. But if the Gestapo, er, Ashcroft, continues to reign with their long, long arm of the law&#8230; well, we&#8217;re all in for some undue trouble.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/2259/comment-page-1#comment-4844</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Aug 2004 00:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4844</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s one of the more intelligent posts I&#039;ve read on this website. Well said! You are certainly someone who understands what DC and the Underground Network is all about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s one of the more intelligent posts I&#8217;ve read on this website. Well said! You are certainly someone who understands what DC and the Underground Network is all about.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/2259/comment-page-1#comment-4824</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4824</guid>
		<description>exactly. 

im also part of a hub on dc that is as close to legal as possible. we only allow mucic that is lossless (no mp3&#039;s) and we have a link to almost every band&#039;s trading policy that allows people to feely trade on the net. no movies, or warez that isn&#039;t a free legal music program is allowed and there are ops there for kicking those who share illegal items out and they are subsequently banned. This whole thing reeks. GL UDGNetwork/answerman and others.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>exactly. </p>
<p>im also part of a hub on dc that is as close to legal as possible. we only allow mucic that is lossless (no mp3&#8217;s) and we have a link to almost every band&#8217;s trading policy that allows people to feely trade on the net. no movies, or warez that isn&#8217;t a free legal music program is allowed and there are ops there for kicking those who share illegal items out and they are subsequently banned. This whole thing reeks. GL UDGNetwork/answerman and others.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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