China ramps up Net-porn war
p2pnet.net News:- Starting today, if a Chinese porn site is “clicked” more than 250,000 times, its owners could be jailed for life.
The sentence could be applied to anyone “engaged in the profit-oriented production and dissemination of pornographic materials through the Internet, mobile communication terminals and ‘phone-sex’ services,” says the state news agency Xinhuanet here.
Reflecting a significant toughening-up of China’s already strict anti-porn laws, “China’s Supreme People’s Court and Supreme People’s Procuratorate jointly issued the interpretations Sunday on the application of law in handling criminal cases concerning the production, duplication, publication, sales and dissemination of electronic pornographic materials through the Internet, mobile communication terminals and phone-sex services,” says the report.
“Depending on the seriousness of the cases, the sentences range from living under compulsory surveillance, detainment, taking into custody by the police, to various terms of imprisonment and life imprisonment,” Xinhuanet states.
Nor will the new penalties be confined to people who use online porn for profit.
“[...]grave cases of non-profit production and dissemination of pornographic materials are also criminal and subject to punishment<' says the state agency.
“People who knowingly aid the production and dissemination of pornographic materials through the above-mentioned means are also culpable and will be punished.”
In June, China’s president Hu Jintao’s issued instructions “to wage a people’s war against pornography on the Internet”.
China now offers Do-It-Yourself parental and commercial censorship and has been waging a war against Net cafes.
September 6th, 2004 at 3:30 pm
Three Cheers for China !!!
The Chinese government may leave a lot to be desired, but they have enough insight to know that purveyors of porn will destroy their social fabric if allowed to go unchecked.
David
Columbus, OH
September 6th, 2004 at 3:47 pm
oh please!!!!!!! another self sanctifying blowheart trying to put personal morals off on everyone else. If you don’t like it then don’t go to the sites, read the books, watch the movies, what ever. Have you never heard of free speach, freedom of the press. Or does this just apply when you or some fellow american is making money off of it. Social fabric be damed it is just your personal interperation of the social fabric. If people like you paid as much attention to your own moral fabric as you do trying to force your own beliefs on someone half ways around the globe then you may be a happier person . I realy pitty you.
September 6th, 2004 at 3:50 pm
So what are the URLs they are targeting? Purely an academic interest you understand.
September 6th, 2004 at 3:56 pm
Wow,
Another liberal bed wetter crying when what he percieves as his rights being trampled on. Give Me A Break! First off pornography is nothing more than exploitation. Most women are forced in to this. Pornography allows men to look at women as objects, why do you think divorce is so high here in USA. Men look for the ideal woman and when she won’t do everything he wants his way, divorce is his answer.
Secondly, and contributes greatly to child abuse and sexual assault because of the above mentioned thinking of the dull male brain. I hope the USA passes tougher laws also.
September 6th, 2004 at 4:00 pm
pornograpy should not be encouraged but nevertheless it should be limited to individual rights.i dont understand why the chinese goverment is making a big fuss about porn when there are other equally evil things like prostituion,smoking leading to drugs,supressing peoples free speech.they should learn from russia a communist country which does not behave like them.if they cant even tolerate porn how are they going to behave if taiwan eventually joins them.Do they still believe in one country,two system……..?
September 6th, 2004 at 4:09 pm
I Disagree.
Pornography can be art as well as love for the female body and its beauty. It has to be allowed.
I agree pornography can also be exploitation, and most often becomes it, especially in poor countries like China, Russia, Thailand, etc… Or in poor neighboorhoods of big cities such as New York.
However, it’s under the pretenses of morality that most dictatorships and sects thrive. The tools for political censorships and the dangerous curtaining of freedom are always obtained either through fear (ie. terrorism) or through puritanism (ie. pornography).
The countries where pornography is banned and where the rights of woman’s are not equal to those of men, are the less advanced and less developped countries in the world. Take Irak, Saudi-Arabia, Nigeria, and China…
The problem with Pornography lies with men. Human males have to be able to control themselves and this is where progress can be made. Not through controls and censorships which only leads to frustrations and psychological disorders.
Philippe
September 6th, 2004 at 4:12 pm
Bravo for the Chinese! Let’s copy them in the USA.
September 6th, 2004 at 4:29 pm
re: “First off pornography is nothing more than exploitation. Most women are forced in to this. Pornography allows men to look at women as objects, why do you think divorce is so high here in USA. Men look for the ideal woman and when she won’t do everything he wants his way, divorce is his answer. ”
Ummm…what about the middle east where women are [by culture] objects and second class citizens, but divorce is exceptionally low. Yes, by culture, but my point is that it IS our culture making divorce almost trendy is the problem, NOT the fact of exploitation.
Now, I’m not supporting pornography by any means, I’m replying to the aspect of “women as objects” in relation to the divorce comments only.
September 6th, 2004 at 4:30 pm
BRAVO! BRAVO! BRAVO! Thank you for saying what you did. If they don’t like it, then why participate?
September 6th, 2004 at 4:31 pm
your an idiot, i’ll bet your one of those people that think the patriot act was the best idea ever. Well when the US finally becomes a police i hope you’ll be happy. For a country that claims to value freedom above all else you people sure seem ready to give that freedom up when it suits your cause.
September 6th, 2004 at 4:33 pm
Well said, Phillipe. It’s when anything is driven underground is when exploitation begins and grows.
September 6th, 2004 at 4:34 pm
http://www.asstr.org – Let freedom ring – baby.
September 6th, 2004 at 4:38 pm
I wonder how this will destroy any nation’s social fabric other than to drive it underground. There is nothing inherintly (sorry if I mispelled that word) wrong with sex. It’s when it’s driven underground that it goes awry. That’s when exploitation sets in. And goodness knows, the world has so much exploitation.
September 6th, 2004 at 4:46 pm
I would not be surprised it this was also a way of bringing dissidents in.
World public opinion would not be aroused for the arresting of those who publish or use porn. In China, how are we to tell if those arrested are really arrested for the published crime? The internet is difficult to police and the dissidents use it and email as their primary means of communication. I would not take the porn story at face value.
September 6th, 2004 at 4:50 pm
Obviously posted by a woman who was divorced by her husband because she was a prude!
September 6th, 2004 at 5:03 pm
Great news to hear. This is what real politicians do, look out for the interests of the people instead of themselves. I’m pretty sure that also in China they don’t spend 500 million dollars on election campaigns instead of doing something positive to reflect back on the people and give them an actual reason for voting for them. When people indulge or take pleasure in obsene acts commited against others it is not justified to call it freedom of speech. The laws in the U.S. are as paper thin as to just barely qualify and to no arouse suspicions. Why is it not felony child abuse to smoke in a closed car with a child or even in a home when no one under 18 can buy cigarettes? Why do we blame the parents if children go online and stumble upon porn sites? There are supposed to be laws to protect every child from even their parents indulgences whether in the home or elsewhere. It seems no matter how criminal an act is, the law governing it is balanced against how much money it can make for the goverment.
September 6th, 2004 at 5:06 pm
if there were enough 2-dollar pussy then you wouldnt need the porn. why are govt’s trying to control sexuality, hmm maybe
they have a motive..
September 6th, 2004 at 5:09 pm
and why, pray tell, would the gov’t care about the
fabric of society. hmm, maybe if they keep people
repressed and dumb they won’t have any problem
milking them like cattle.
September 6th, 2004 at 5:14 pm
After watching the Sixty Minutes program on TV yesterday in which they reported the involvement of multi-nationals in Pornography,the earnings of those multi-nationals and the comments of those involved,any reasonable and sensible person would draw the conclusion that there was little or no hope for a cleaner and better society in the future.And all this because in the country of origin there was little or no control on the availability and distribution of such material.
China desrves all praise for their actions and a positive comment from ‘David’ is a ray of hope for humanity.
Would it not be nice if the same people who were so keen on poking their noses into the affairs of other countries and exciting their citizens by making false statements and lying had to divert their attention to more important matters such as maintaining a high standard of morals?
Soon enough,depraved minds will lead to a corrupt corporate world and financial disaster.
Stan
B.C.Canada
September 6th, 2004 at 5:23 pm
I couldn’t have said it better myself!!!! I bet money this asshole spends his day looking at internet porn and whipping his skippy. The moral majority has all but killed this country and it’s time it is stopped.
September 6th, 2004 at 5:32 pm
I am in complete agreement about the smoking issue (hang them all, felony child abuse) but really, it’s up to parents to KNOW what their children are doing online and therefore the responsibility is clearly at the parental level for the porn thing. People must become parents again but that probably won’t be happenning. Mom and dad are too busy trying to keep up with the Jones. New boat, car, more toys…Kids need to know the rules and the rules need to be inforced period…
September 6th, 2004 at 5:34 pm
We ARE talking about communist China – there lies the problem. Is the issue is that they are trying to regulate morality, not necessarily pornography? Nothing to do with either. There is a bit of a contradiction here – communist China regulating morality…hmmm…isn’t this the same China that is treating their citizens as second class? Jailing their people without just cause, exploiting pison labor for the profit of the government? This has nothing to do with morality – $$$ is more like it.
Our govenment is starting to lean this [liberal] direction as well..
September 6th, 2004 at 5:35 pm
If we stop looking at internet porn, the terrorists win. Is that what you want? Huh? I didn’t think so.
September 6th, 2004 at 5:47 pm
David, you are a f*cking idiot.
September 6th, 2004 at 5:49 pm
You are so correct, Philippe. Censorship is not the answer and often is the first step towards tyranny. The US founding fathers were acutely aware of this and placed it in the forefront in our constitution.
Mateo
September 6th, 2004 at 5:53 pm
if they took all the porn off the nett there would only be one web page left…and it wouuld say “bring back teh porn!!1″
September 6th, 2004 at 5:53 pm
Except that the Chineese government will just use this as another means of supression. China needs freedom of speech if it’s to get anywhere as a modern society.
Also, we don’t really know what “porn” is in China. I’m not sure they do either.
September 6th, 2004 at 6:03 pm
Strict Anti-Porn Laws = Godless Communist Oppression. ‘Nuff said.
Sean
September 6th, 2004 at 6:04 pm
Too true, too true. To bad they persecute their allies on this matter, the Christians.
September 6th, 2004 at 6:08 pm
Fool, you know nothing. Witchcraft was stamped out in the middle ages, made illegal and so forth. According to your logic, it was driven underground and what? Its totally gone now, sure there are some people who think they have revived it but this is centuries after restrictions stopped, and historians all agree that modern wiccans don’t practice anything like the ancient european witches,… rather a modern invention, and in either case nowadays we call them what they are, freaks. It is possible for a goverment to completely eliminate a certain type of behaviour, the only thing the government has no chance of eliminating, is your special breed of ignorance.
September 6th, 2004 at 6:09 pm
cough*idiot*
September 6th, 2004 at 6:11 pm
No more suckie suckie!
September 6th, 2004 at 6:11 pm
Did someone say 2-dollar pussy?
September 6th, 2004 at 6:12 pm
The term is “blow-hard”…not blowheart. Think it through..it’ll make sense to you.
September 6th, 2004 at 6:14 pm
Yeah, I remember reading that all divorce filings are initiated by men. And since when do women do anything that men want, or vice-versa? If that is your idea of courtship you need to rethink marriage, dating, and relationships. Finally, it’s ‘perceives’ not percieves.
September 6th, 2004 at 6:16 pm
I don’t get on what grounds the Communist Chinese government doesn’t like porn. They have no religious beliefs, and therefore no moral standard. On the surface of it, one would assume that their thinking would be similar to that of the Japanese, who feel that much of the human brain’s functioning is mechanistic, and that sex is merely a release of tension, an undeniable animalistic need, the same as when someone sleeps, or eats, or daydreams.
September 6th, 2004 at 6:16 pm
If porn is so evil and morally wrong then please explain why it is such a huge business – both on and off the Internet. Does it exploit women – yes. Do sewing sweat shops in China exploit women? Hmmm…I would think so. I can think of a few hundred industries that exploit {insert sex, race, nationality, citizenship status, etc. here}. Also, let’s not forget – a large portion of sex sites have women models that are perfectly willing to participate without feeling exploited in the least.
All that aside – saying that porn is evil and bad… Would anyone want to give up the freedom to view porn? OK, if so then what next? Maybe those romance novels, they are literary equivalents of porn. HBO is totally off the air then… Wait – the SuperBowl had a little porn action this year, let’s shut down the NFL? I didn’t serve in the USMC to allow a bunch of parents that are not able and not willing to raise their children properly to dictate what freedoms I do and do not have. I agree measures should exist to protect children (like creating a VERY easy to block .sex top level domain and limit adult material to that). If an adult, however, wants to view porn – then by all means he/she should be allowed to do so without my interference.
Don’t some of you people have more important things to worry about….like maybe raising your children with actual parental guidence and input rather then leaving parenting up to the government?
September 6th, 2004 at 6:16 pm
is it too hare to believe that a state such as china is involved in this as the leaders of this and other such states continue to do as i say not as i do how sad and cruel when they will come to an end
as it says in revelation …. no iron monkey …. no jet lei ….
no body …..
September 6th, 2004 at 6:18 pm
there is absolutly nothing wrong with a government regulating morality. there is nothing liberal about it, in fact historically speaking all governments since ancient times have regulated morality. it is a modern idea that governements should be secular and amoralistic. and what? What is the contradiction with a communist country regulating morality? nobody jails people without cause, not even the chinese or communists, these people broke laws or crossed someone they shouldn’t have. You are probably some moralistic fiend yourself, judging other governments, other societies way of life, what is wrong with exacting payment from criminals who have harmed society? nothing, they have to pay their debts just like anyone. you would have them sit in a cell all day long with nothing to do? I hope to God that our government is leaning in this direction, but it isn’t a liberal direction, http://www.dictionary.com buddy. its ok, we can tell english isnt your first language.
September 6th, 2004 at 6:22 pm
LOL. Good one. Also, will posters please learn how to spell? Words are the tools with which one expresses themselves. You are bludgeoning me with your misspelled words.
“blowheart” *OWW!* (it’s “blowhard”)..
“damed” *OWW!* (it’s “damned”)..
“realy” *OWW!* (it’s “really”)..
“pitty” *OWWWW!* (dude! come on – it’s “pity”)…
For the record, I agree with your point (the misspeller noted above). To the first dude, you’re kidding right? You think that porn is the reason the divorce rate is so high? Are you sure that it has nothing to do with the fact that people are getting ridiculously lazy and have no principles? Porn existed a long time ago.. and will continue to exist well into the future.
You claim the misspeller is a liberal bedwetter, but you are the one who complains that pornography is “nothing more than exploitation.” Who forces most women into this? They are compensated more than fairly, for quite bad acting. They can pretty much opt out at their convenience. The pornography industry is a business – sex sells. The clothing companies know it, the beer companies know it – Hey! Maybe we should stop selling beer because it makes people hook up and that’s “bad for our moral fabric.” Plus, their commercials are just awful – I mean, look at the girl that’s wearing next to nothing. We (as men, of course) forced her to wear that – can’t you see the pain on her face?
Dude, if you don’t want to look at porn, don’t. No one is making you “exploit” the porn industry. Oh, and while you’re at it – don’t look at that hot woman’s ass walking down the street in her mini-skirt – that’s “objectifying” her.
September 6th, 2004 at 6:24 pm
Liberal direction? Frankly, I see the conservative faction in the U S mirror this behavior. The patriot act is being used to circumvent civil liberties – ie: “Jailing without just cause”. The political push for longer (tougher) jail sentences is something our right wing politicians like to talk about as well. Perhaps you have liberal politicians talking about using prison labor more – but I rather doubt it.
In reality – there really is very little difference between the conservative politicians in China and those in the U.S. Certainly, conservaitve politicians here in the U.S. like to rail against porn – and the Chinese politicians, presumably conservative as well, seem to think along the same lines. Civil liberties have always been a target of conservative regimes – look at the ACLU for instance: considered by most a very liberal organization.
Money may drive much of what happens in the world. But the real coin for most homo sapiens is power and control. Exerting one’s influence on the masses is the ultimate goal for many people – and exercising that by something that one considers distressing is the first step. Many people are turned off by porn, but I wonder if it’s truly for moral reasons. I think it interesting that many so-called “religious” leaders are caught up in sex scandals during their lives. That and the stereotypical Catholic priest who turns out to be a pedophile. Everyone has their issues, and I find it natural that sexuality would be involved in an attack of civil liberties.
September 6th, 2004 at 6:33 pm
Ummm…hey dumbass, did YOU look it up?
“Liberal: designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States. ” Social and political liberalism…hmmm…think about it.
And for someone judging me on my english language skills, your skills aren’t so good either:
The first letter of the first word in each sentace should be capitalized.
The word isn’t has an apostrophe in it (last sentance).
“and what?” is NOT a complete sentance.
Need I go on (there are more).
Next, “nobody jails people without cause” – this even happens in America! You are very sheltered – maybe you are John Kerry, or Jesse Jackson?
What a douchebag (try to look that up on your precious http://www.dictionary.com). We all know what a douchebag is, but not your dictionary…!
September 6th, 2004 at 6:37 pm
good! I think USA should also.
September 6th, 2004 at 6:38 pm
Great ambition to the Chinese Government. They really are looking out for the people’s welfare. I would only wish the rest of the world would take notice and do the same. Porn has turned real love into
a purely physical venture. Thats not what my wife wants. The world wants Real Love and Compassion and the Chinese are on the frontal edge of cleaning up a real mess.
September 6th, 2004 at 6:41 pm
Look closer at what going on insight China and then You people wouldn’t be in shock at all.
I don’t get the POINT of putting my family in Jail for this. Our country is the biggest SEX ADDICTS just look at our population CLOSE to 2billion.. That will tell you something..
Who is this LAW for?
I think they are trying to say something like this
It’s OK to fuck anybody but don’t look at porn site…
Maybe they are worried about there old chinese sex position.
Ying Xi
Anti-Communist
Free Tibet
September 6th, 2004 at 6:50 pm
Excellent!
September 6th, 2004 at 6:53 pm
Quote “Don’t some of you people have more important things to worry about….like maybe raising your children with actual parental guidence and input rather then leaving parenting up to the government?”
If you wish to give me the power to sue Porn sites for allowing my children to access them, nay, makeing it so easy to access them they practally made it impossible for my children to miss the sites then yes…
I’m no fan of large government… but something has to be done to reduce porn on the net…. adluts seeking that kind of entertainment have right to go find them… but that entertainment can stop comming in the form of pop-up’s from spyware obtained not only accidentally, but forced onto my computer let alone my children…
I think this arguement of porn and exploitation is off corse… as is the one about marridge…. you should have picked your partners better then that…
Porn sites are notorious for being poorly constructed and dubious in their content not only the pictures within but the software they contain… This industry brings this kind of anger and responce on itself because it preys on the nieve and the curious…
I know this because my job is to goto peoples homes where such sites have been visited to remove in ‘infections and infestations’ of such things…
If the chinese govt. puts this in place and it works… more power to them. People on the internet will still be uneffected by it because there will always be other porn sites in other countrys accessable by the internet with no reguard for the end user or their machine…
September 6th, 2004 at 7:05 pm
oh please. what kind of argument is that? the solution is to come down on the illegal forceful pornography where women are supposedly forced into it. not removing the medium altogether. fuck disgusting communist china. they are just mad because they hate the japanese and yet look exactly alike.
September 6th, 2004 at 7:26 pm
…of course, that has more to do with wicca being trendy and all the little “teen witches” who expect to be able to cast a love spell in 5 minutes (or your money back). I’ve never met a serious wiccan (i.e., one who’s willing to do a bit of work and study) who claims that it’s more than about 60 years old. On the other hand there ARE religious reconstructionists who are attempting to revive the actual historical practices of various pre-Christian religions and are doing a pretty good job of it by going to the best available historical sources and studying them as intently as professional historians, if not more so.
But that’s all beside the point. Although I can’t give specifics (it’s not my area of specialty), I’ve encountered a number of sources which give strong arguments for the decline of historical witchcraft having been the result of social change. I have seen exactly one source (namely the post to which I am replying) which claims that it was due to governmental suppression – and this source takes that claim as axiomatic, providing no evidence whatsoever to support it. I’m afraid I’ll have to conclude that the government’s (or, more accurately given the era, the Church’s) attempts to stamp out medieval witchcraft played no significant role in its disappearance.
As for your actual claim that governments can extinguish something by banning it, I suggest you take a look at the Prohibition Era of U.S. history, during which time production and consumption of alcohol was completely banned. The primary effects of Prohibition were to amplify many of the existing problems with alcohol, create new problems, and provide organized crime with a virtually unlimited source of income. On top of all that, it was a complete failure with respect to getting people to stop drinking. Given that sex is a basic biological drive while intoxication is not, I can’t imagine that any ban on porn could possibly be more successful than Prohibition was.
September 6th, 2004 at 7:26 pm
Cheers Xi, I wholly agree, governments who use one form of unpopular speech to surpress their people need only take a cue from the former USSR to see the consquences. Right now China maybe the cash cow for the west with cheap labour; but give the japanese and US another 30-40 years to perfect automation and processing techniques and all the chinese labour in the world will do nothing to compete with -0- labour products.
September 6th, 2004 at 7:31 pm
you are a loser and divorced
September 6th, 2004 at 7:31 pm
you are a loser and divorced
September 6th, 2004 at 7:39 pm
Philippe, you don’t know anything about the soical life and status of women in China. Before making any convincing commets, please try to have some talks with Chinese women to know what rights they have now. Pornography is one of the most insulting thing done to women by male. Chinese government did right thing here.
September 6th, 2004 at 7:39 pm
Sorry, but I wasn’t aware that your wife had become our supreme leader. I know lots of people (both men and women) who are quite happy for sex to be “a purely physical venture”. And even more (again, both men and women) who enjoy porn. Why is what your wife wants (or doesn’t want) more important than what these people want?
September 6th, 2004 at 7:47 pm
Free speech, as an inherent right, is one that will exist despite crackdowns.
The Chinese people are the best in the world at subverting their govt’s limitations (Beijing is home to the software piracy capital of the world-barely a few miles from Tiananmen Square). The Chinese govt has passed a law and may or may not enforce it. If the chinese people want the right to view porn, they will do it, thereby speaking the popular mind.
Govt exists as a moral safeguard, established by the people. Through it we declare some things right (public education, sanitary water, etc) and others wrong (murder, dumping toxic waste, etc). Often time things are declared, but not decided. Some of those things in flux are put on a national stage (gay marriage). Others are fought quietly. Speeding has been declared wrong, but most people disagree with the limit and decline to obey it. Cops do not always follow the rules posted- writing tickets when you are 10, 20+ miles over on a freeway, or writing you a ticket if you are 5 over in a school zone. Pornography, if decided wrong by the populace, will be relegated to dark alleys.
Currently it is in flux in our country. That does not mean that other countries which have chosen to make it illegal are denying the inalienable right to post/view a pair of breasts. They have declared it wrong and their constituents can choose to agree. Do not confuse the moral issue of porn with the right to govern others. Try as they might, govts have only limited control over actions. Even in a dictatorship, the people have control over their own beliefs.
September 6th, 2004 at 7:47 pm
Nothing is more pornographic than communism…most especially the chinese version of it…It accepts the benefits of capitalism,while protecting a vulgar and perverted small ruling class which indulges itself in every conceivable vice that the west enjoys..I wager that Pornography will outsurvive communist china..it is intimately tied to human sexuality and although I am against it, I have the sacred right to choose whether I want to see it or not….and that is the crux of why the chinese government does not like it…
September 6th, 2004 at 7:58 pm
http://www.google.com still caches those sites
September 6th, 2004 at 8:01 pm
Am I the only person here that thinks that porn is actually a healthy, good thing? It’s beautiful, it’s fun to watch. I like to watch it with my friends sometimes. And, yes, I do masturbate when I watch it. What’s wrong with that?
The other thing: Porn opponents say that it’s bad for kids. Hmmm…this is a pretty shaky argument. I would like to see real academic proof of this. Think about it…What’s more damaging to a child: Watching a couple of people having a great time fucking on the television or watching his/her parents freak out because the kid is watching it?
Jason
September 6th, 2004 at 8:12 pm
ive just stumbled across this site and found all these comments. there really funny and we’re all a bunch of losers who cant spell and we all have wanks in showers twice a week.
September 6th, 2004 at 8:14 pm
The constitution does not protect porn from criminal prosecution. The Supreme court decieded in about ‘72 that free speech does not protect that which is pornographic.It dependes on what a community veiw as porn.
September 6th, 2004 at 8:19 pm
Oh My God! I can’t believe in this day and age anyone can be so mentally challanged as to blame the state of divorce, child abuse, and sexual abuse on pornography! What did you blame it on in the last century, or the one before that? Pornograhpy also allows women to look at men as objects, which several of us do! The reason for the change in divorce rate is the brains women finally decided to use in the 60’s. Men were very happy when all women did was cook clean and raise children. Now men have to compete for business success with women and they are bitter. I believe I have the right to admire a male body as much as a man does to admire a female body. It does not make me a child abuser, or a sexual deviant. It does make me human! Get a grip on reality and stop trying to blame your troubles on a few little pictures.
September 6th, 2004 at 8:19 pm
There are many points to consider from both sides concerning this issue.
I refuse to represent any opinion other than mine since that would be tyrannical on my part. So here is what my experience has been with porn.
1. I like porn somewhat. Like ice cream I suppose. Before I had ice cream, I had no idea what it tasted like. Then one day I was given some, and I thought it tasted really good. Now as I got older, I began to learn that it wasn’t good to eat ice cream everyday, especially if you were at risk for heart disease and obesity. Porn reminds me of ice cream, except I would have to multiply it’s addictive properties by ten fold.
2. I want to be a moral person. What that is, I really don’t know for sure since morality is subject to a person’s cultural and religious upbringing and point of view. I guess it has to do with wholesome and unwholesome thoughts and actions. Now before you get analytical about “wholesome vs. unwholesome”, let me define it for this conversation. Wholesomeness is any action, speech or thought that benefits yourself AND other beings while Unwholesomeness is the negative of that description.
3. I came from Vietnam, a country that is now completely communist. I don’t particularly care for that form of government, because though I agree with it conceptually, I understand that it will never ever work because humans will always have greed, avarice, hate etc. in their blood. So eventually, the leaders of these communist governments will eventually act base on these negative mental states while hiding behind the banner of “Universal Equality for All”. So they take land, and wealth and “redistribute” (wink, wink) them to the people.
4. I love living in America. Indeed it was the call of “Freedom” that beckoned our family to come to this great country. But it America, especially Corporate America, Media America, and Average America has done exactly what some communists have done in regards to acting with greed, hate, lust etc. Not all of Corporate America or Entertainment America has done this of course, there or nice companies out there too. So anyways, what has happened many times over our history is the defense of unwholesomeness with the idea of Freedom of Speech, Press and Religion. We have freedoms. But it doesn’t mean that we should make the idea of Freedom static and one dimensional as though anything that infringes on this idea is UNAMERICAN. Our “Freedom” no matter how we like to caress it and cling to it is obviously not really true freedom at all. Many people agree that freedom of speech doesn’t allow you to scream “fire” in a crowded theatre. And so it is in the spirit of the idea of “Freedom with Responsibility” that I argue against those people who support the unequivocal rights of expression of internet porn peddlers. It is not for the sake of the adults, but for the sake of the children of America that the ease of access of pornography must be regulated.
I’m all for having the right to jerk-off when I want in my own home, but not at the expense of some child’s mind. My concern for the children makes me pro-censorship, but my addiction to hot naked women is screaming at me “what it the hell are you doing?” In the end, I must side with the children and absence of mind agitating mediums such as porn and violence. As a wise saint once said, “Just as it feels good to scratch an itch, but even better is to not have the itch. The bliss of heaven amounts to not even one eighth the bliss of the end of craving.”
So in regards to reducing the accessibility of internet porn, I think China is headed in the right direction. But by no means am I championing the eradication of porn or sexuality in all forms. To do that would be equivalent to the poor misguided religious attempt to suppress a part of humanity which is in our biological makeup. We don’t need to point fingers at those poor souls who thought this was the way and ended up in lawsuits over child sex abuse.
On the flip side, to allow porn to be easily displayed, sold and accessed, is just the collaboration of our lust and intelligence to justify our addiction to sense pleasures with the Golden Calf of America – the ideal of Freedom of Expression.
I hope that this didn’t ruffle any feathers. I tried to be fair and neutral and apologize the JudeoChristian reference to the Golden Calf. It was a figure of speech. Well, I gotta finish up some work and hope that I don’t get the urge to whack off… man that wastes so much time sometimes. I hope I can learn to control my time more productively in the near future. Best wishes.
September 6th, 2004 at 8:30 pm
Was Michelangelo’s work pornographic? Was it considered by some to be so? Welcome back to the dark ages, China.
September 6th, 2004 at 8:43 pm
One day you will look at one of these “little pictures” and you will realize that the human race, capable of overcoming its need to dominate and rule, will be the one who understands what’s missing in these pictures. Although not the cause, these pictures are symptoms of the times. A time when humans realizing they are adrift in a massive universe they don’t understand and have to come to terms for the first time in history with the fact that there is good evidence we are nothing more than the result of a series of events that may end up meaningless. Wether or not this time leads to more empty domineering attitudes looking to distract themselves from the loneliness they feel in their hearts from a god who has left them or wether it lets us realize what true potential we have and how precious this life really is has yet to be seen. Once we decide to love each other, porn will dissappear and no one will miss it.
September 6th, 2004 at 8:46 pm
“creating a VERY easy to block .sex top level domain and limit adult material to that” sounds like a great idea to me!
Wonder why it hasn’t already happened? Maybe the person who had this idea should follow up on it with someone higher up in the Internet world.
September 6th, 2004 at 8:46 pm
2billion? do you have a sense of world population?
stupid
September 6th, 2004 at 8:46 pm
Seriously, what is the big deal about sex anyways? North America DRENCHES our public with sex, whether it be on T.V., movies, songs, literature, etc.
Yet, when it comes to the ACTUAL act of sex, very taboo instantly.
If you don’t want to view porn or your children to, it’s YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. Stop dictating how OTHERS should behave.
September 6th, 2004 at 8:48 pm
Really? It is?
Might want to tell the THOUSANDS of WILLING participants of porn that.
Kthxbyestfu.
September 6th, 2004 at 8:51 pm
Way to go, that’s good thinking (no sarcasm).
Want to know what would actually make this better? Have the parents, you know, not treat sex as this taboo subject and actually sit down and explain to their children EVERYTHING about it. Leaving it like it is, most children grow up learning their sex ed FROM porn…
September 6th, 2004 at 9:06 pm
>Pornography can be art as well as love for the female body and its beauty. >It has to be allowed.
you are fooling your self
>Human males have to be able to control themselves and this is where >progress can be made.
human males are genetically “wired” to respond to any
sexual stimulus from the opposite sex. pornography messes
this behavior and raises the threshold to unnatural level
pornography is exploitation of women and defenseless/helpless girls. enough said.
September 6th, 2004 at 9:08 pm
yo da man! well said
September 6th, 2004 at 9:09 pm
Your presuming that the government of China allows any free expresson. Tiananmen Square is a excellent example of how there isn’t free expression in China. Sadly like with most of these posts they come from a white bread westernized view of how the world should work.
September 6th, 2004 at 9:28 pm
What is pornography?
September 6th, 2004 at 9:40 pm
i love porn
September 6th, 2004 at 9:44 pm
I can tell by your lack of spelling and grammar that you are not the sharpest
knife in the drawer. Your ignorance at fortifying your computer to block spyware supports this assertion. BTW, why are your children on the internet anyway?
September 6th, 2004 at 9:45 pm
The Chinese Governement is like a BIG BROTHER. Absolutely horrible.
The website http://www.dilby.com is trying to bring back uncensored news and headlines back to the Chinese people.
September 6th, 2004 at 9:45 pm
Learn to spell and others may listen to you with more respect. You come across as an uneducated and intolerant redneck. You could at least do something about the “uneducated” part.
Here are some of the words you should learn to spell.
making (not “makeing”)
practically (not “practally”)
adults (not “adluts”)
coming (not “comming”)
course (not “corse”)
marriage (not “marridge”) (Really, now, give me a break.)
naive (not “nieve”)
response (not “responce”)
countries (not “countrys”)
accessible (not “accessable”)
regard (not “reguard”)
I recommend a book called a “dictionary” and you can even access one for free at http://www.m-w.com.
You also used “then” instead of “than,” you use ellipses far too often and always incorrectly, you capitalize “porn” in the middle of a sentence, you say you “goto” people’s homes but “goto” should be two words, and you seem oblivious to the period.
I won’t buy for a minute the “it doesn’t matter because it’s only on the Internet” argument. That is a lazy and uneducated point of view. There are rules for written English that should be followed in any venue in which you hope to be heard and understood.
And now I shall dismiss your arguments in a separate post.
September 6th, 2004 at 9:47 pm
Does anyone know where I can see some of this chinese porn and see it for myself. It must be disgusting, please include URLs.
Thanks
Yellow Feverish
September 6th, 2004 at 9:50 pm
Why are you people so much against porn? Who cares, people get paid alot of money and they would not do it if it was not something that they enjoyed
People should be free to do what they want without the government stepping on their toes
September 6th, 2004 at 9:51 pm
Actually, I went to China this year, and you are incorrect. There is a great deal of free expression in China recently. Yes, they are Communist and do have more government controls, and by far not perfect. But, our so-called democracy is not so perfect either. When somone elses “free speech” infringes upon my or another person’s rights, then the government needs to step in and do something about it. Another person’s rights should NOT take away my rights to a decent and moral atmosphere. And, pornography DOES affect everyone in that society, not just the one doing or viewing it. And there is a great deal of child pornography also, and very violent pornography. I suppose you think that these scum of the earth who promote this should have their rights preserved. In case you don’t know it, which obviously you don’t, our country, despite what some people seem to believe, was founded on God, and values, not perversion.
September 6th, 2004 at 9:54 pm
China has it’s hands full. I heard of this website called The Dilby News Monitor http://www.dilby.com. The site does noto look like much because it’s a regular news page, but I’ve spoken to friends in The People’s Republic of China and they are definitely liking http://www.dilby.com. It’s weird because the website doesn’t say that it’s doing anything within the country but their presence is known by teen in China and other Asian countries.
I don’t know what they’re doing but the website is somehow in China or they have connections.
http://www.dilby.com BOOKMARK IT AND CHECK IT EVERYDAY.
September 6th, 2004 at 9:55 pm
ACLU baby…
September 6th, 2004 at 10:07 pm
Learn to write before you go off on anti-male diatribe for their ‘dullness’. And please note that rising divorce rates are correlated with more FEMALE freedom to initate divorces.
Jenna Jameson just came out with a new book. Maybe you should look into it.
September 6th, 2004 at 10:11 pm
The event is happening in China, but most of these arguments are being made from within the framework of free speech. I’ll do the same and pretend that we’re debating as though this was US policy.
The failure of today’s children to learn the difference between right and wrong and to carry on their parents’ values is a failure of the parents. It is not the government’s job to decide what’s decent. It is the government’s job to protect our freedoms. Some must be free to produce and consume porn and others must be free to avoid it.
The fact that porn elbows its way onto your computer unbidden is perhaps an invasion of privacy, but there are laws against invading privacy. Enforce those. Don’t outlaw porn. That would be like outlawing automobiles because drunk drivers kill with them. The law is against the ACTION, not the VEHICLE.
You’re welcome to sue the porn industry. Anybody can sue anybody for any reason in this country. Go for it. Your local yellow pages is full of lawyers. I’ll spell it for you. Look under ATTORNEYS.
I’m not a porn junkie, but I have some, I’ve seen some more, and I’ve been to strip clubs. The girls in the strip clubs are NOT exploited against their will. They’re beautiful women, perfectly made up, with silky smooth skin, and they smell amazing. That requires an effort. They WANT to do this. They LIKE it. It’s an industry in which they can earn $1000 a week, just dancing topless. And they LOVE the attention. Some girls go a little further than that, but I doubt that very many in the USA are forced to. In other countries, certainly, there is a problem, but don’t try that argument here.
Porn has nothing to do with marriage. The right-wing argues that gay marriage will destroy the sanctity of marriage. What sanctity?! The USA has the highest divorce rate in the world (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/peo_div_rat). Do you think allowing gay and lesbian people to marry will make it worse? Please! Find a brain cell. The gay and lesbian people who want to marry are likely to be far more devoted to each other than the heterosexual “starter-marriage” crowd. Do you think forbidding porn will cut down on divorce? Please! You’re just using “marriage” as an excuse to exercise your puritanical view. People just don’t take marriage seriously in this country anymore.
The fact of the matter is that the rest of the world has far fewer problems than the USA on puritanical issues. In Europe, nudity is no big deal. They don’t sensationalize it. They don’t ban it. They don’t legislate it. Not like we do. And as such, their kids don’t think twice about it. They have an entirely different attitude. The same can be said about drinking. In Germany, kids can drink long before they can drive. Drinking is no big deal. They don’t binge on their 21st birthday. They don’t drink and drive.
This desire for puritanical control is what’s causing the problem in the first place. Stop it. Stop it now. Get out of the 18th century.
- Todd
PS – Also please read my previous post about spelling.
September 6th, 2004 at 10:20 pm
I kind of disagree of “right to choose whether I want to see it or not”. It is not right to choose to do wrong thing.
Freedom means you have right to choose right things to do, but not wront things to do.
Therefore, I believe pron stuffs are wrong, since it is hurting others, I think it should be disallowed.
September 6th, 2004 at 10:30 pm
Yea, freedom means you can choose to do the right thing, but pron stuffs are wrong, since it is hurting others. So I think they should not be allowed.
September 6th, 2004 at 10:34 pm
With all the child slavery, prostitution and general exploitation going on, watching the traffic on webservers seems pretty stupid.
NATIONAL STATISTICS FOR CHINA
* There are an estimated 100,000 children in prostitution. (UNICEF Report, December 1994)
* There are 30,000 minors in prostitution in Taiwan according to government estimates. (CATW, The Fact Book on Global Sexual Exploitation, 1999, 1999, citing government estimates)
* In Taiwan, between 40,000 and 60,000 children are sex workers. (UNICEF, Children on the Edge, citing, UNICEF Issue Brief (1999), Child Protection Section, UNICEF East Asia and Pacific)
* Child prostitution is a problem in the wider community and involves between 40,000 and 60,000 children. Most child prostitutes range from 12 to 16 years of age. (EI, EI Barometer on Human and Trade Union Rights in the Education Sector, 1998)
* 60,000 children are involved in prostitution in Taiwan. (June Kane, Sold for Sex, Aren Ashgate Publising Limited Gower House, 1998)
September 6th, 2004 at 10:35 pm
“Another person’s rights should NOT take away my rights to a decent and moral atmosphere.”
Subjective prattle. You either DO or DO NOT believe in the 1st ammendment! Also your view of ‘rights’ may infringe on Hindu, Buddhist, Islamic, and even Christian beliefs (heaven forbid). Every thought is subjective, period. No thought is absolute or it would be truth and therefore beyond refute. If you can argue about anything then it is not an absolute truth because it will have multiple sides and therefore is not truth… only relatively true but not ultimately true. Protecting children is a duty and it is up to Microsoft to become a NetNanny and provide freeware as they are in 95% of the desktops. They could make an application like the numerous ones out there. The parent has to take responsibility when net is in the home and install blocking software.
“In case you don’t know it, which obviously you don’t, our country, despite what some people seem to believe, was founded on God, and values, not perversion”
Your ideas once again. Just as these are my ideas, once again, and just chatter in space.
September 6th, 2004 at 10:44 pm
Man, if you don’t like it then goto church and pray for peoples souls – but, if somebody wants to sit at home jerking-off (aka slapping the salami, choking the chicken) over material on the internet then they have every right to. A government has absolutely NO RIGHT to tell people what to do in their own home as long as it affects nobody else.
September 6th, 2004 at 10:46 pm
Interesting. You say our country was founded on God? What of the writings of Ben Franklin, an anti-Christian humanist? What of Thomas Jefferson, the author of the constitution? At the time of the founding of our country, he was an atheist. In all told, just short of half of the signatories of the constitution were non-Christian in some form or other. The first _colonies_ may have been founded by Puritans seeking greater freedom to practice their particular form of Christianity. But that was 150 years or more before the founding of our country. Thank God (little joke there) our founding fathers had the foresight to disassociate themselves from the Puritan movement, and found our country on _humanist_ ideals.
September 6th, 2004 at 10:51 pm
Philippe: I totally agree with you. But you should understand that human males have been given an appetite for porn that we didn’t ask for, don’t need, and would probably rather not have. But there it is; almost as strong as the need to mate. And most of us do control ourselves. Thank you
September 6th, 2004 at 10:54 pm
Amen
September 6th, 2004 at 10:58 pm
Anon Coward: I liked your comment “do not confuse the moral issue of porn with the right to govern people.” To me, that pretty much sums it up. Tom
September 6th, 2004 at 10:58 pm
Wow! That was highly entertaining! Have you perhaps considered some professional writing? I would greatly enjoy a column of dry humor, where the author dissects the grammatical errors created by our public figures. In particular, G.W. Bush would be such rich fodder that you may never find the need to look elsewhere for a fertile row to plow.
Bravo.
September 6th, 2004 at 10:59 pm
I wish there were less idiots posting here.
Those saying porn destroys lives, makes people hate, exploits women etc etc.
Have you ever got out from under your rock?!!
There are a lot of rich famous women out there who earn a lot of money through their bodies, and if i could do it, i surely would!
Start living a little people. THis story makes me glad i am not a borgie!
September 6th, 2004 at 11:02 pm
Amen Amen (little joke there)
September 6th, 2004 at 11:05 pm
Chinese porn sites are among the most artful and also among the most disgusting. Don’t bother with them & get some poor working slob sent up for life. Just mho
September 6th, 2004 at 11:08 pm
First of all Jason is right, masturbating to porn is most gratifying and there is absolutely nothing wrong about masturbation or pornography.
More importantly, I don’t think parents need to teach their children only about sex, I think parents must also teach their children about relationships. Sex is but a tiny part of a relationship.
Andre
September 6th, 2004 at 11:10 pm
Dont be such a p#ss@! If you dont like it dont look.
September 6th, 2004 at 11:11 pm
This person did not deserve the well done grammar and spelling you gave and probably will not be able to read it anyway. Thank for the new dictionary site; didn’t know about that one. Tom
September 6th, 2004 at 11:12 pm
Number crunching: 250,000 clicks on one site? The would mean you’d have to click the site 685 times in one day, every day for a year! OR 1366 times every two days for a year OR 2049 times every three days for a year!
Pornography has been with us since we could draw on walls. The Egyptians, Grecians, Romans, Japanese, Indians all have erected buildings and/or painted on walls in the name of sex. How to have sex, who to have sex with, sexual positions, sex education, rules surrounding how to treat prostitutes/concubines. I went to art school. In the text books I was given to study from the temples of Khajuraho were absent. The beautiful art of the Spring Palace (in China) was no where to be found. The Kama Sutra, non existant. If you read my text books (Gardners for instance) except for the occassional naked body – you’d think we were asexual beings who were born with clothing on! Censorship even happens in Canada, it can be subtle, such as my art text books or it can be flagrent, such as this new law in China. It happens everywhere. The question of how to view sex (moral, religous, etc) and what to allow/disallow has been the subject of debate for just as long as the art about it.
Pornography is not going to stop anytime soon. Sex is how we reproduce (barring turkey basters and invetro fertilization). We are among the few species on the planet who can have sex because it feels good. Where I draw the line is with children, animals, explotation of humans. Where I draw the line is with this new prevailing attitude, “if it feels good just do it” and that anyone trying to impede it is stomping on “freedom of expression”. The writer from Vietnam has it right “pleasures of the Golden Calf”
September 6th, 2004 at 11:14 pm
ps: meant to stick a name to that post – guess I should create an account
-Anne
September 6th, 2004 at 11:14 pm
It’s more pornagraphic what china did to Tibet and wants to do to Taiwan and will probably do to Hong Kong.
Child (slave) labor is the norm. Killing students is OK .
Lets not forget about Laos Cambodia Nth Vietnam Nth Korea. Look at the obscenity there..
please
the chinese are phucked up worse that the porn they try to stop.
Mao died hellooooooooooooooooooooooooooo China
September 6th, 2004 at 11:16 pm
Todd: Read and responded to your previously posted message on spelling. I left out the word “lesson” after grammar and spelling. Doesn’t pay to get too pompous does it? Again, I agree with you. Tom
September 6th, 2004 at 11:23 pm
Maybe China should run the US since they and republicans have so much in common. Even better why don’t all Republican move to China, Iran, or Saudi Arabia. Republicans seem to be comfortable with repressive governments.
September 6th, 2004 at 11:26 pm
Oh but http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/photos.htm can have bikini babes OK so a little sex is Ok but porns not ..
morons just morons
September 6th, 2004 at 11:49 pm
BTW- your an ass, stop picking fights
Just my 2 cents
September 6th, 2004 at 11:51 pm
Hey Anonymous Coward … Just because you are so perverted doesn’t give you the right to decide that the world should just be left to go to hell. Society has every right to protect itself, and their children from people like you.
September 6th, 2004 at 11:54 pm
That makes no sense. First you call someone a liberal to be insulting, and then you dig up the classical feminist liberal argument against porn, using words like exploitation and objects. You sir, are the liberal bed wetter.
September 7th, 2004 at 12:13 am
Quick to judge, quick to insult. When clearly you dont want youre masturbation material taken away. I pitty you
September 7th, 2004 at 12:14 am
Whatever. This Anti-porn thing saving society…what about Europe. They have fewer laws agaisnt porn (if any indeed) and they are still functioning rather well.
It’s America that has backward views of a natural phenomenon: sex.
September 7th, 2004 at 12:22 am
A lot of these grand announcements are basically ignored as soon as the initial flurry of activity dies down. I live in China and can remember a few years back it was annuonced there would be no smoking allowed in public places. People still smoke a lot in restaurants. Or stamping out government corruption, there have been a lot of announcements on this as well. I can let you know first hand that I have been involved in a lot of construction projects and they still have these middleman companies in charge of purchasing for the projects that serve no purpose other than to skim from the project. So this latest porn announcement while noble will be likely largely ignored and bypassed.
September 7th, 2004 at 12:28 am
Apparently the Chinese are smart enough to know the devastating effects that “unchained” pornography will have on their culture. Keep up the self discipline and focus.This century will be the Asian century!
MA
September 7th, 2004 at 12:37 am
I see. Sounds like you’re the one objectifying woman. Ever think that it’s the woman who doesn’t want to be married any longer? W/ increasing life expectancies many people who could’ve early remained married until “death do us part” are finding that 30 or 40 or 50 years is a little more than they bargained for, especially when opportunities for woman to do more than clean your house Mr. High and Mighty are expanding.
September 7th, 2004 at 12:41 am
Porn has no value to anyone looking at it–Bravo for china
P. S. It exploits women.
September 7th, 2004 at 12:43 am
Bravo for China!!!!!!!
September 7th, 2004 at 12:49 am
Tell that to the thousands of willing females who are in the porn industry.
It’s not an objectification of WOMEN, it’s an objectification of SEX.
As long as both parties are willing (no rape), it’s allowed.
Dictating how others behave simply because YOU are offended by it is simply ludicrious.
September 7th, 2004 at 12:55 am
A close-up of a penis entering a vagina repeatedly is not art. This is just a lame arguement someone would use when their mom came into the room and caught them watching it. Because porn is banned in a certain country has nothing to do with how advanced they are, usually that has to do with their economic and social structures and also the environment in which they inhabit. The problem with porn is that it exists for no reason. If you want to see a woman naked or have sexual relations then go out, get to know a person and eventually you will share intimate moments with them if they decide that you are worth it. At the same time you bond and share love for one another. Porn is simply a tool for those who don’t have a quality personality and in knowing that they will never actually share a true moment of love with someone, have to reduce it to an act of flesh and watch other people doing it.
September 7th, 2004 at 12:56 am
Great! Now that it’s illegal in China, all the conservative morons can move there! Of course, they’re so stupid, they don’t understand that making it illegal doesn’t make it go away. Dumb, stupid, communist republicans.
September 7th, 2004 at 1:26 am
China government is Great, like the country…
This action is a good way to erase any kind of competition for their “People’s republic sexual education website…” you can access thanks to China telecom… about this, i do not understand why all the girls on this website wear like prostitute… maybe to remember the KTV, bars, and 24h barbershops where you can get “nipples” masssage for 5 euro in all respectable Great china cities. Anyway, maybe their policy is not that bad, we may not see little kids or any other deviant stuff on their website… what? kids are working in China? no kidding!
September 7th, 2004 at 1:33 am
David,
Who the fuck asked for your opinion?
I’ll look at porn if I damn well care to, and if you don’t like it, then why don’t you fuck off to Iran, or China, or somewhere else besides a free country?
September 7th, 2004 at 1:37 am
You total hopeless loser!
September 7th, 2004 at 1:39 am
About porn,
As it is my understanding that this is a free board, where a person can post his/her thoughts, and as I am in a free country, where my thoughts are my own and yet I can share them if someone seems interested, then let me do so. If you would like to respond, please, your thoughts are welcome. Even if you want to say “you are an asshole”. I revel in such responses. Thank you in advance.
I will attempt to answer (aloud, yet for myself) several questions:
Is Nudity bad?
I would have to say no to this one. My support is that people are nude, under their clothes. They come out that way, they even get made that way. So how could that which we are be bad?
What makes something bad?
This is a very difficult question. I have always thought that something that was bad was something that caused someone else pain. This could be physical or emotional pain. Because of that, hitting someone is bad, killing someone is bad, telling someone they are a fucking idiot is bad. In my opinion, if you want to try to be “good” then you should try not to hurt people. It’s pretty simple, and yet pretty damned difficult, even for those precious few who still try.
Is “porn” bad?
Well, I have already decided that nudity simply can’t be bad. And Porn is just pictures of nudity, or of the sexual act. Right? Well, maybe not eh? Porn is that, and probably a lot more. From what I know of porn, pictoral or video depictions are of nudity, normal sexual acts (I base this classification on what could, if no birth control mechanism were employed, produce offspring), sexual acts that don’t fit into the previous classification. Other important facts to note are that the ages of participants can range anywhere from very, very young, to very very old. Sex is a critical part of what makes life exist, and it is therefore by definition part of the binding of our culture and our reality ( I speak of a culture that encompasses all of humanity ). For me, sex is a wonderfully fulfilling part of my life and the exploration of the emotional bindings between myself and my partner. So…what could make it bad? I would say that “hurt” would make it bad. I decided this previously.
What hurt could come from porn?
I can classify several types of hurt that can come, possibly, from porn.
1) Physical pain inflicted on non-willing participants.
2) emotional pain inflicted on non-willing participants.
3) explotation of the poor or otherwise weak to make them “willing” when they otherwise would not be willing. (they gotta have money just like everyone else…some of them don’t really like what they have chosen, but it does pay the bills).
4) emotional damage or lack of growth experienced by viewers
* Note that I used the word “possibly”, by which I mean that I believe there are cases where hurt has come in these forms to some person or another.
There are a lot of arguments on both sides of this issue. The critical issue seems to be that of freedom. If something cannot but justified as bad, and universally accepted as bad, then is it a loss of freedom to curtail that thing? I would have to say yes. Something must be fairly universally accepted as bad. It is pretty clear to most of us that murder is bad. Suicide may not be so clear, and certainly accidents happen, so it’s not death that is bad. Murder is bad. I would say the vast majority would agree to this. One could argue that it is our stupid moral society that makes murder bad. I would not argue that, but I’m sure there is someone out there that feels that way. Someone very twisted (by my reconning). So the majority has decided on this social issue, and the laws have been put in place, and they are generally enforced. We must be careful that freedom not become the excuse for everything. Thank heavens that I am not free to kill you, every one of you, right now. No, I am not free to do that.
I also am inclined to point out, the argument itself is nothing to be ashamed of. We need to be proud that we care enough to wonder if this is a bad thing. Those who sit on both sides of the issue are well justified to be there, expressing their concern. We must weigh in our feelings on all of the issues that hang in balance.
My opinion is that hurt can come from porn, though not always. I do believe that a great many people are unwittingly subjected to pornography that they did not want. The majority needs to seek some kind of “acceptable norm” that can be expected from public society, upon which all can agree and all can rely on. Because it is a sensitive issue is exactly why, at least for now, our society cannot embrace something like this as a public norm. I see nothing wrong with that. I am in no hurry to see billboards on the way to school of sex acts that I did not ask to see. But yet, on the internet that is exactly what is happening to people.
Imagine being kidnapped and forced to watch [insert something you find offensive here], though you really didn’t want to. In my opinion, that is the problem that we need to address first. People need to have the FREEDOM of CHOICE. Don’t forget the freedom and don’t forget the choice.
Secondly, I would agree with the general point of a previous post that porn can tend to cause people to objectify other people. Sex is a very powerful part of our emotional makeup and like anything that exerts a power over us, it can be twisted and manipulated to “bad” ends. Understanding sex is something that most kids struggle with growing up. There is a tendency in our society to “mystify” or even “villify” sex. This naturally creates a lot of confusion and sometimes even some negative feelings of guilt from people as they mature and try to come to terms with this. I would say that rape is bad, insomuch that someone was forced to do something they didn’t want to do. Objectification of people would be a necessary pre-requisite for rape behavior, because if you really cared more about the person you were raping than for your own need for satisfaction, you would not do it. Only by disregarding this person’s feelings could you force them to participate in something they did not wish, and hurt them in the process. I personally believe that porn does play a part in the mentality of people (it must, because it is something they can experience, and everything we experience has some impact on us). I think that sometimes the impact can be negative.
Many people have argued that good parents are responsible for their children, and they must teach their kids what is right, not count on the government to do that for them.
Well, I agree, and if that is true, and if I were to teach my kids something, I would try to teach them that sex is not something you do “to” someone, it is something you do “with” someone. That in and of itself would be a huge step. Also, I think sex is penultimately sacred as a part of our existence because, not considering cloning, it is the only way to create a new life. Personalities of all sorts come to exist with us here as a part of our family because of sex. And it is just so very neat. I would teach them that. I would have to teach my kids about the potential pitfalls I see in pornography. I would teach them that nudity is not bad, but hurt is bad, and hurt can be a part of pornography, both on the part of the purveyors, and the voyeurs.
I would also feel it was my duty to weigh in my opinion about what I think should be our “acceptable public norm”. On that issue I would vote for pornography being illegal. I personally do not like it. And let the majority rule. And let the minority accept that. I may very well be the minority, after all. I can accept that. I must.
Since I’m a passionate sob I have written a song about this. It is a pretty hard heavy metal song, called “Killing time”. It is about how people spend their days eating up what the media dishes out to them, and just simply noting that bad things may come of it. If you would like to hear this song, you can visit me at http://www.pollyputthekettleon.com. The place isn’t finished but it doesn’t have the songs up. If you would not like to visit me then please refrain from doing so. You are free to do whatever the hell you want. I don’t consider this a shameless plug in this case, but rather a way to further express myself among those who may be interested.
THX.
Chronologic
September 7th, 2004 at 1:48 am
Thinks your viewpoint,we are a tradition society with a long culture .
September 7th, 2004 at 1:50 am
Three more cheers for china, this is one time the USA could follow china’s leads.
September 7th, 2004 at 1:56 am
Someone intelligent. Way to go.
September 7th, 2004 at 1:57 am
your viewpoint is very wonderful , now our chinese do a model for all of world , we lead civilization to go forward,but we think the US should also do a good model .
September 7th, 2004 at 2:23 am
Check your facts, bozo.
- most women are not forced into it
- it has little to do with the divorce rate in the US
- where is the evidence for the rest of your claims
September 7th, 2004 at 2:32 am
Did you know china culture? our forefathers have large brightness especially in society science , we leard the nature scicece last century ,because the west-world force us to became a force country same as their , if US isn’t become a model to lead the world ,they will be replaced!
September 7th, 2004 at 2:43 am
who cares their porn sucks anyways.
September 7th, 2004 at 2:49 am
has anybody tried to calculate the actual number of sperm cells being ejaculated all over china caused by porn sites? Isn’t there 2 billion chinese people? Lets say that there’s 1.5 bil, 1/2 men, 1/2 with internet access. That 1,500,000,000 * .5 * .5 = 375 mil men on the internet at least once a day. Lets say that the teenagers will wank off enough times to make up for all the people too old to wank it, and just for good measure lets say that everybody on average wanks off twice a day to internet porn (me, 5 times daily – that’s how I figure the average to be 2). That’s 750 million jackoffs a day.
OK so arent there about at least a billion sperm cells in ejaculation. I heard billions (plural) so lets just say 10 billion. Basically thats 10 bil * 750 mil = 7500000000000000000. That’s 7.5 quintillion sperms a day. You could hogwash a fleet of elephants with that many sperms, all them little wrigglers working their magic, cleaning out the pores of that dirty elephant skin.
My point, however, is this. If a chinese pornsite can accomodate 250,000 clicks (jackoffs) then the Chinese govt is permitting 2500000000000000 sperm cells (or more with all the various group wankings that occur widespread all the time everywhere) per porn site to be squandered away before taking any action. Shame on them.
September 7th, 2004 at 2:55 am
If you think porn is bad, you should check out what American media does to kids. That’s multitudes worse. Not that you’d actually get that, given the disjunct, ignorant ramblings of your post.
Why did you bring politics into this? Liberal bed-wetter? You sound like a 50s throw-back chanting pro-USA slogans at communists.
Ultimately, you just sound like a bitter middle-aged woman whose husband left recently. The “divorce is _his_ answer” gives you away.
Next time you make a blanket argument, try not to come from only your own personal experiences. You will sound more intelligent and those around you will actually pay attention. As it is now you are simply noise.
But thanks for the fodder.
- A Patriot
September 7th, 2004 at 3:05 am
I have just read the most stupid thing I have ever read in my entire life and it was written by you! No doubt you voted for Bush.
September 7th, 2004 at 3:08 am
pornography is nothing more than exploitation! how about being forced to work for a wage that one can not take care of their family? You are just another fool who will waste their vote for bush
September 7th, 2004 at 3:21 am
I think his viewpoint is right ,Just because of the woman right increasing , the byelaw protect the feebleness.
September 7th, 2004 at 3:25 am
You don’t want to know what happens if the terrorist win.
September 7th, 2004 at 3:29 am
it’s funny how they don’t allow pornography yet they permit $5 sluts
September 7th, 2004 at 3:46 am
What is up with China ? Are your leaders absolutely wacked out control freaks or what ? You can’t laugh in the face of love ! Nobody can for long. You cannot stop the curiosity of the human species. Your leaders are old and and are dying and they will obviously leave the planet as soon as possible and stop taking up everyone else’s valuable oxygen; but not soon enough. The Chinese leaders are showing extrem stupidity with their childish demands from the minds of wanna be control freaks.
September 7th, 2004 at 3:48 am
What is up with China ? Are your leaders absolutely wacked out control freaks or what ? You can’t laugh in the face of love ! Nobody can for long. You cannot stop the curiosity of the human species. Your leaders are old and and are dying and they will obviously leave the planet as soon as possible and stop taking up everyone else’s valuable oxygen; but not soon enough. The Chinese leaders are showing extrem stupidity with their childish demands from the minds of wanna be control freaks.
September 7th, 2004 at 3:49 am
Are your leaders absolutely wacked out control freaks or what ? You can’t laugh in the face of love ! Nobody can for long. You cannot stop the curiosity of the human species. Your leaders are old and and are dying and they will obviously leave the planet as soon as possible and stop taking up everyone else’s valuable oxygen; but not soon enough. The Chinese leaders are showing extrem stupidity with their childish demands from the minds of wanna be control freaks.
September 7th, 2004 at 4:21 am
Yes ,we hate corruption,but the US help these man to get free, we don’t know why US can use force to invade and occupy another country ,but we can’t to regulate our people,Do you know why terror attack US ?that is force to force!
September 7th, 2004 at 4:27 am
Thank goodness for the internet so we can discuss issues and not blow each other up. The Iraq invasion by the US was absolutely wrong. Period. As with the Tibet invasion. Countries suck. The people are great ! The leaders are all spiritual laggards for the most part. Saw a bumper sticker that said: http://www.NoMoBushit.com !
September 7th, 2004 at 4:29 am
I am chinese, I don’t know the sluts is worth $5 ,where you hear from ?
September 7th, 2004 at 6:18 pm
.sex, .xxx, and similar top-level domains have been proposed a number of times, but never succeeded in gaining the support they needed. The official reason given has typically been that it would be too easy for porn sites to work around it (register a dummy non-.xxx domain that redirects traffic to a .xxx address, etc.), but I suspect that the real reason is that creating such a TLD could be interpreted as an endorsement of porn (much like the “giving out free condoms promotes premarital sex” line of thought) and nobody in power wants to be seen as endorsing porn.
September 7th, 2004 at 6:20 pm
“The fact that porn elbows its way onto your computer unbidden is perhaps an invasion of privacy, but there are laws against invading privacy. Enforce those. Don’t outlaw porn. That would be like outlawing automobiles because drunk drivers kill with them. The law is against the ACTION, not the VEHICLE.”
“They LIKE it. It’s an industry in which they can earn $1000 a week, just dancing topless. And they LOVE the attention. Some girls go a little further than that, but I doubt that very many in the USA are forced to. In other countries, certainly, there is a problem, but don’t try that argument here.”
“The fact of the matter is that the rest of the world has far fewer problems than the USA on puritanical issues. In Europe, nudity is no big deal. They don’t sensationalize it. They don’t ban it. They don’t legislate it. Not like we do. And as such, their kids don’t think twice about it.”
“This desire for puritanical control is what’s causing the problem in the first place. Stop it. Stop it now. Get out of the 18th century.”
Hear, hear! I just selected the biggest points to repeat, but your entire post is dead-on.
September 7th, 2004 at 6:24 pm
“Porn is simply a tool for those who don’t have a quality personality and in knowing that they will never actually share a true moment of love with someone”
*lol* And just how do you account for the couples (some married, some not) who enjoy watching porn together?
September 7th, 2004 at 6:29 pm
“The other thing: Porn opponents say that it’s bad for kids. Hmmm…this is a pretty shaky argument. I would like to see real academic proof of this. Think about it…What’s more damaging to a child: Watching a couple of people having a great time fucking on the television or watching his/her parents freak out because the kid is watching it?”
Yup. I’ve long believed that pornography (with the exception of that which depicts violent or seemingly-nonconsensual acts) is NOT harmful to children – any harm is the result of people’s attempts to shield them from it and reactions if they learn that a child has happened to see some.
And you know, I’ve never been able to get a good answer to this question: When does a bare female breast become harmful for a child to see? At one point it’s a food source, at another, it’s pornographic and supposedly damaging. When and why does this change take place?
September 7th, 2004 at 6:56 pm
“3) explotation of the poor or otherwise weak to make them “willing” when they otherwise would not be willing. (they gotta have money just like everyone else…some of them don’t really like what they have chosen, but it does pay the bills).”
I don’t get this argument. There are a lot of people out there who don’t like their jobs. Why is this just fine when the job is filing documents, but bad when the job is stripping?
“I am in no hurry to see billboards on the way to school of sex acts that I did not ask to see. But yet, on the internet that is exactly what is happening to people.”
What you are describing is a problem with the advertising media in question (billboards or banners/popups), not a problem with porn. Porn can be legal without allowing it to be placed on billboards.
“Objectification of people would be a necessary pre-requisite for rape behavior, because if you really cared more about the person you were raping than for your own need for satisfaction, you would not do it. Only by disregarding this person’s feelings could you force them to participate in something they did not wish, and hurt them in the process.”
Not true. You could also hate the person rather than objectifying them. There’s also the stereotypical parental statement of “this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you” – the person inflicting the hurt could believe that it is necessary to some other benefit. (That would be some pretty twisted reasoning in the case of rape, but it’s really only directed towards your broader claim that you would never hurt someone you care about.)
“I would also feel it was my duty to weigh in my opinion about what I think should be our “acceptable public norm”. On that issue I would vote for pornography being illegal.”
I disagree with your criteria at this point. The law should be about what is harmful or not harmful. It should not be about what is normative. (Most people don’t play D&D. Most people would not want to see everyone playing D&D, so it is not an “acceptable public norm”. But this in no way means that playing D&D should be illegal.)
September 7th, 2004 at 10:33 pm
Argument #3 would hold no matter what the job is. Filing documents is sucky and I would see it under a similar light. If you don’t like it but you’re forced to do it, then I guess I see that as oppression. And you’re right, it happens all over the place in this world.
Problem with advertising media — yes exactly. That was my point.
I would think that hate also requires a certain degree of objectification. But maybe it only works that way for me. The point I was trying to make is that respect is an issue. You might say you can hate someone, while still respecting them. But something about the word respect implies sort of an indescribable kind of love, at least for me. Everything that I respect I also love and value. I see that as the opposite of objectification. But again, that’s just me.
Finally, the word “public” was important to my last point. I don’t see anything public about playing D & D. I personally love the stuff but I don’t see anything public about it. The public norm applies to things that are public. Basically, the stuff right out front where the public essentially has no choice but to partake. I think it’s only fair and respectable that some kind of norm applies to those things, and it can’t be derived from any kind of extreme viewpoint. It would be best if it was like a 95% confidence interval that the majority of the public would be unharmed by the content. And “harm” has multiple definitions, as pointed out by the vietnamese american in another post.
Thanks for the good reply.
Chronologic
September 8th, 2004 at 2:21 am
if you want to know any more information .pls visit china web site ,www.sohu.com or http://www.sina.com .welcome
September 8th, 2004 at 2:58 pm
“If you want to see a woman naked or have sexual relations then go out, get to know a person and eventually you will share intimate moments with them if they decide that you are worth it.”
Think of Porn being prohibited. Think noone decides you are worth having sexual intercourse with him/her, but you’ve heard the stories of it… everyone’s doing it… why not me…
Don’t you think the rate of rapings, child molestations and such would go up ?
If no woman decides I’m good enough, I’ll just take what I want.. ?! It may be a small percentage, but I think there would be enough “crazy” people who would commit a rape if they’ve never had the chance of masturbating while viewing porn.
Think about that. Porn actually saves some…
Maybe those people aren’t crazy after all, but just have the urge for sexuality which isn’t offered to them.
Nowadays, they go working, having chats with friends and are masturbating while watching porn.
In the porn-prohibited future, they go working, having chats with friends and once every 5 years maybe rape a woman…
I don’t think that is what you want…
Leave porn free…
An Anonymous Coward from Germany, where (THANK GOD) we do not have such silly problems…
Post Scriptum: Sorry for any grammatic or spelling errors…
September 8th, 2004 at 6:47 pm
So, with this clarification, it sounds like you’re basically of the opinion that public display of porn should be illegal, right? What I got from your earlier post was that you thought porn should be banned outright, whether used privately or publically, which is what I was disagreeing with. I can go along with just prohibiting public display of porn. (For properly-defined meanings of “public” – having some friends over to watch a tape or setting up a mini-theater where anyone (with proper ID) can walk in and watch should be protected, but billboards on the freeway don’t have to be.)
February 7th, 2005 at 4:28 am
A got a bit of truth but when you say: “Porn is simply a tool for those who don’t have a quality personality and in knowing that they will never actually share a true moment of love with someone, have to reduce it to an act of flesh and watch other people doing it.”
You get it plain wrong. It’s like if you were saying that those who looks at porno are losers, sicks or psychos, or anywhere but normal.
It’s maybe because you don’t watch porno and you are proud of it and thinks that you are normal so, the others are not.
Or maybe, you are a loser or a psycho and you are seeking the answer of what and why?
But the fact is that every living creature has the capacity, desire and willing to procreate. Everything is about hormones, pheromones and others substances in the bloodstream and produced by the brain.
Everykind of activities that makes the brain produce substance that are enjoyable, the brain wants it more. Therefore, it’s perfectly normal that any person watching porn feel as much enjoyable. So many pleasurable hormones and pheromones are produced during sexual activities. It’s normal.
I would recommand porn to anyone (18y+).
Here a sample: if the Internet ban porn someday, it will instantly follow years and years of increased number of child abuse, rape, sexual exploit of any kind. The porn helps to control desires and fantasms to stay in the mind if it’s advised.
Maybe most of the rapist and other abusers that are currently in jail would have just sat at their computer and watch porno, instead of going to mess up another precious life.
Think about it. You don’t have a perfect answer, me neither, no one either. It’s a society debate (débat de société). The question might never be answered.
March 2nd, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Pornography does not bring good to our society because it degrades one’s dignity. remember that you are your body, you cannot say that it is my body who performs pornography. Are you trying to say that art is trampling one’s dignity? I don’t think so. As far as i have concerned that art is showing off the beauty of the subject not turning on to an object.
March 2nd, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Pornography is very difficult term to define. it usually refers to obscene literature, art, film or live display. the word obscene usually means offensive according to the general and prevailing standards of morality in any particular culture, society or group. Is that which appeals to the prurient interest (lust and desire for the impure in thought and deed) and which has no redeeming social, literary or artistic value.