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	<title>Comments on: Front end DRM</title>
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		<title>By: Leopold</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/23937/comment-page-1#comment-977199</link>
		<dc:creator>Leopold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 04:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=23937#comment-977199</guid>
		<description>I like how they use the term &quot;shrink,&quot; a word with so, so fewer negative connotations than the term they use for the one true industry-killer, &quot;piracy.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like how they use the term &#8220;shrink,&#8221; a word with so, so fewer negative connotations than the term they use for the one true industry-killer, &#8220;piracy.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Henry Emrich</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/23937/comment-page-1#comment-977168</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry Emrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=23937#comment-977168</guid>
		<description>Okay, so lemme get this straight:

   1. Assuming the product is &quot;activated&quot; at point of sale, if it&#039;s still copyable IN ANY FORM after such an activation, this isn&#039;t, strictly speaking, DRM, and it certainly won&#039;t do a damn thing against so-called &quot;piracy&quot;.  Why?  One word: SPORE.  Once stripped of their assinine &quot;secure-rom&quot; bullshit, the improved (non-crippled) version proliferated like wildfire.
   Remember, kids, it only takes ONE un-hobbled copy, anywhere in existence, to defeat any kind of &quot;DRM&#039; bullshit they can imagine.
  
   2. As far as &quot;shrink&quot; or whatever other nonsense their using as justification for this, why do they even keep &quot;physical product&quot; on hand, at all?
   If they REALLY don&#039;t want to have to deal with &quot;shrink&quot;, then why not burn the things on a per-sale basis, on-site?  (Oh, wait -- that would actually make people question the point of having to go to a &quot;bricks and mortar&quot; store to &quot;buy&quot; (or, according to the RIAA/MPAA/copyPigz, &quot;license&quot;) the stuff, instead of just downloading it directly.  
    (And it&#039;s a really short step from &quot;wow, I could have just downloaded this&quot;, to &quot;I could just download this directly from the publisher, and bypass the &quot;vendor&quot; entirely).  So much for the RIAA/MPAA/every &quot;software store&quot; in existence. :)

    3.  Let&#039;s also ignore the question about it can be considered &quot;shoplifting&quot; to &quot;steal&quot; a disc, if according to the RIAA/MPAA/pigz, you don&#039;t &quot;own&quot; the media anyway, no matter how much you paid in &quot;licensing fees&quot;.  (Odd how they always treat it as if you DO &quot;own&quot; the media, whenever you try to return a box after it&#039;s been opened, and claim that &quot;all sales are final&quot; -- when it&#039;s to THEIR advantage, they call it a &quot;sale&quot;, when it&#039;s not, we&#039;re just &quot;licensing&quot; the &quot;content.&quot;)   Fascinating how they&#039;ve been able to get away with that doublespeak/doublethink bullshit for years.

   Sorry for the ramblings here, but it just fascinates me how they&#039;ve been able to carve out grey areas where it&#039;s a sale -- except when it&#039;s not, basically at whim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, so lemme get this straight:</p>
<p>   1. Assuming the product is &#8220;activated&#8221; at point of sale, if it&#8217;s still copyable IN ANY FORM after such an activation, this isn&#8217;t, strictly speaking, DRM, and it certainly won&#8217;t do a damn thing against so-called &#8220;piracy&#8221;.  Why?  One word: SPORE.  Once stripped of their assinine &#8220;secure-rom&#8221; bullshit, the improved (non-crippled) version proliferated like wildfire.<br />
   Remember, kids, it only takes ONE un-hobbled copy, anywhere in existence, to defeat any kind of &#8220;DRM&#8217; bullshit they can imagine.</p>
<p>   2. As far as &#8220;shrink&#8221; or whatever other nonsense their using as justification for this, why do they even keep &#8220;physical product&#8221; on hand, at all?<br />
   If they REALLY don&#8217;t want to have to deal with &#8220;shrink&#8221;, then why not burn the things on a per-sale basis, on-site?  (Oh, wait &#8212; that would actually make people question the point of having to go to a &#8220;bricks and mortar&#8221; store to &#8220;buy&#8221; (or, according to the RIAA/MPAA/copyPigz, &#8220;license&#8221;) the stuff, instead of just downloading it directly.<br />
    (And it&#8217;s a really short step from &#8220;wow, I could have just downloaded this&#8221;, to &#8220;I could just download this directly from the publisher, and bypass the &#8220;vendor&#8221; entirely).  So much for the RIAA/MPAA/every &#8220;software store&#8221; in existence. <img src='http://www.p2pnet.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>    3.  Let&#8217;s also ignore the question about it can be considered &#8220;shoplifting&#8221; to &#8220;steal&#8221; a disc, if according to the RIAA/MPAA/pigz, you don&#8217;t &#8220;own&#8221; the media anyway, no matter how much you paid in &#8220;licensing fees&#8221;.  (Odd how they always treat it as if you DO &#8220;own&#8221; the media, whenever you try to return a box after it&#8217;s been opened, and claim that &#8220;all sales are final&#8221; &#8212; when it&#8217;s to THEIR advantage, they call it a &#8220;sale&#8221;, when it&#8217;s not, we&#8217;re just &#8220;licensing&#8221; the &#8220;content.&#8221;)   Fascinating how they&#8217;ve been able to get away with that doublespeak/doublethink bullshit for years.</p>
<p>   Sorry for the ramblings here, but it just fascinates me how they&#8217;ve been able to carve out grey areas where it&#8217;s a sale &#8212; except when it&#8217;s not, basically at whim.</p>
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		<title>By: lando calrissian</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/23937/comment-page-1#comment-977156</link>
		<dc:creator>lando calrissian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:04:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=23937#comment-977156</guid>
		<description>this is about &#039;shrink&#039; I think thats what many people missed here.  Having worked in retail I have been responsible for counting shrink. I can tell you first hand that their are a ton of people stealing shit or sometimes products disappear and then find their way back.  Its only getting worse really, I have caught people red handed but then they run for it wtf am I supposed to do tackle an old lady?  this sounds like it could be useful to many business&#039;s but that is as long as it doesn&#039;t affect legitimate customers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this is about &#8217;shrink&#8217; I think thats what many people missed here.  Having worked in retail I have been responsible for counting shrink. I can tell you first hand that their are a ton of people stealing shit or sometimes products disappear and then find their way back.  Its only getting worse really, I have caught people red handed but then they run for it wtf am I supposed to do tackle an old lady?  this sounds like it could be useful to many business&#8217;s but that is as long as it doesn&#8217;t affect legitimate customers.</p>
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		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/23937/comment-page-1#comment-977150</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=23937#comment-977150</guid>
		<description>I thought CDs already had RFID stickers inside the case that would set off an alarm when walking through the scanner by the exit door.

Maybe they should reintroduce those foot-and-a-half-long plastic enclosures that 8-track and cassette tapes used to come packaged in.

But why would anyone want to risk having a police record for pocketing a CD? They could download the album from Bittorrent in less time than it takes to drive to the store. :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought CDs already had RFID stickers inside the case that would set off an alarm when walking through the scanner by the exit door.</p>
<p>Maybe they should reintroduce those foot-and-a-half-long plastic enclosures that 8-track and cassette tapes used to come packaged in.</p>
<p>But why would anyone want to risk having a police record for pocketing a CD? They could download the album from Bittorrent in less time than it takes to drive to the store. <img src='http://www.p2pnet.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Devil's Advocate</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/23937/comment-page-1#comment-977129</link>
		<dc:creator>Devil's Advocate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=23937#comment-977129</guid>
		<description>@Sukasa...

I&#039;m not sure how feasible it would be for the manufacturer to expect the retailers to be burning missing file tables.  Even on specialized equipment, the process would take too long at the checkout, and disk errors would be a likely concern.

I&#039;m pretty sure it would have to be, as Sean says, some type of physical lock applied to the product.

For me, it won&#039;t matter in the end anyway, as I haven&#039;t been supporting the mainstream recording industry (by buying any of their products), and won&#039;t be doing so in the future by the looks of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sukasa&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure how feasible it would be for the manufacturer to expect the retailers to be burning missing file tables.  Even on specialized equipment, the process would take too long at the checkout, and disk errors would be a likely concern.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure it would have to be, as Sean says, some type of physical lock applied to the product.</p>
<p>For me, it won&#8217;t matter in the end anyway, as I haven&#8217;t been supporting the mainstream recording industry (by buying any of their products), and won&#8217;t be doing so in the future by the looks of it.</p>
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		<title>By: NO1UNO</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/23937/comment-page-1#comment-977122</link>
		<dc:creator>NO1UNO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=23937#comment-977122</guid>
		<description>&quot;Would it affect playability?… Probably!
CDs are flaky enough when you’re not tampering with them.&quot;

Well said DA,
These are exactly the same things i was thinking reading this, If you&#039;ve ever bought minutes for a pre=paid cell phone you know they have to activate a card at the check-out. How the hell could they do that sort of trick with a CD??
Like SteelWolf said, &quot;I wish I had gotten into DRM instead of going to school - you can sell these people practically anything and they will sink millions into it!&quot; Bunch of idiots!!

build your own &amp; stw</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Would it affect playability?… Probably!<br />
CDs are flaky enough when you’re not tampering with them.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well said DA,<br />
These are exactly the same things i was thinking reading this, If you&#8217;ve ever bought minutes for a pre=paid cell phone you know they have to activate a card at the check-out. How the hell could they do that sort of trick with a CD??<br />
Like SteelWolf said, &#8220;I wish I had gotten into DRM instead of going to school &#8211; you can sell these people practically anything and they will sink millions into it!&#8221; Bunch of idiots!!</p>
<p>build your own &amp; stw</p>
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		<title>By: EMA (Sean Bersell)</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/23937/comment-page-1#comment-977121</link>
		<dc:creator>EMA (Sean Bersell)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=23937#comment-977121</guid>
		<description>This is NOT about DRM or other software activagtion of the discs. The technology to which we are referring would be a physical lock that is opened at the point of sale via radio frequency at the point of sale. (Think of a key card that unlocks a door.) And this is not about fighting piracy (illegal reproductions), but rather fighting shrink (theft of legitimate goods). The purpose is to make it easier for the consumer to purchase the product and enable additional retail channels that have significant shrink issues to carry the product.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is NOT about DRM or other software activagtion of the discs. The technology to which we are referring would be a physical lock that is opened at the point of sale via radio frequency at the point of sale. (Think of a key card that unlocks a door.) And this is not about fighting piracy (illegal reproductions), but rather fighting shrink (theft of legitimate goods). The purpose is to make it easier for the consumer to purchase the product and enable additional retail channels that have significant shrink issues to carry the product.</p>
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		<title>By: Sukasa</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/23937/comment-page-1#comment-977116</link>
		<dc:creator>Sukasa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=23937#comment-977116</guid>
		<description>DA, you could probably do it by burning purposefully corrupt file tables on the CD (specifically, not burning them and just leaving a properly-sized area blank and untouched by a laser) and just burn the file table at the store based off whatever the disk was supposed to be.  Perfectly useless/unreadable (usually) until activated, but when activated entirely valid and ready to play.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DA, you could probably do it by burning purposefully corrupt file tables on the CD (specifically, not burning them and just leaving a properly-sized area blank and untouched by a laser) and just burn the file table at the store based off whatever the disk was supposed to be.  Perfectly useless/unreadable (usually) until activated, but when activated entirely valid and ready to play.</p>
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		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/23937/comment-page-1#comment-977112</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=23937#comment-977112</guid>
		<description>They forgot who is working at the point of sale, often paid with minimum wage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They forgot who is working at the point of sale, often paid with minimum wage.</p>
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		<title>By: Devil's Advocate</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/23937/comment-page-1#comment-977106</link>
		<dc:creator>Devil's Advocate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=23937#comment-977106</guid>
		<description>1) They might as well just give up trying to equate loss of sales with any kind of theft.
It&#039;s a tired line that people are onto now, and I&#039;m sure they don&#039;t buy into it any more than we do.

2) I am pretty curious how a CD could be &quot;unreadable&quot; until &quot;activated&quot;.
From a computer point of view, the CD is either burned or it isn&#039;t.  If it has been burned, it&#039;s readable.  Inversely, if it&#039;s not readable, not much can be done with it or added to it.  And, you can&#039;t deliberately burn a disk to be unreadable.

Obviously, the &quot;activation&quot; mechanism would have to be some new &quot;external&quot; process.  Something that is physically taken away from the disc, perhaps, and then replaced at the store?  I dunno, I&#039;m having trouble conceiving how that would even work.

Would it affect playability?...  Probably!
CDs are flaky enough when you&#039;re not tampering with them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) They might as well just give up trying to equate loss of sales with any kind of theft.<br />
It&#8217;s a tired line that people are onto now, and I&#8217;m sure they don&#8217;t buy into it any more than we do.</p>
<p>2) I am pretty curious how a CD could be &#8220;unreadable&#8221; until &#8220;activated&#8221;.<br />
From a computer point of view, the CD is either burned or it isn&#8217;t.  If it has been burned, it&#8217;s readable.  Inversely, if it&#8217;s not readable, not much can be done with it or added to it.  And, you can&#8217;t deliberately burn a disk to be unreadable.</p>
<p>Obviously, the &#8220;activation&#8221; mechanism would have to be some new &#8220;external&#8221; process.  Something that is physically taken away from the disc, perhaps, and then replaced at the store?  I dunno, I&#8217;m having trouble conceiving how that would even work.</p>
<p>Would it affect playability?&#8230;  Probably!<br />
CDs are flaky enough when you&#8217;re not tampering with them.</p>
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		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/23937/comment-page-1#comment-977099</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=23937#comment-977099</guid>
		<description>if file sharing mp3s is &#039;theft&#039;, why cant we resell paid for digital downloads? you allow resale of CDs, so if digital content is physical content, why wont the MAFIAA allow resale?

Ill tell you why, cause you fucks are greedy rapists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if file sharing mp3s is &#8216;theft&#8217;, why cant we resell paid for digital downloads? you allow resale of CDs, so if digital content is physical content, why wont the MAFIAA allow resale?</p>
<p>Ill tell you why, cause you fucks are greedy rapists.</p>
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		<title>By: A B</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/23937/comment-page-1#comment-977098</link>
		<dc:creator>A B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=23937#comment-977098</guid>
		<description>Duuur, hi kids, I&#039;m the music industry spokesman, and I&#039;m here to tell you that its piracy whether you gain a copy with or without depriving a copy from someone else Now be honest, who here has ever downloaded something from the internet? Raise your hands please. OK, I&#039;m going to need all your names and numbers. Also, can we call the cops? We&#039;re going to need this lot to be held for questioning.

Shoplifting and piracy are not synonyms.
Are they really going to try and use newspeak consistently in their statements?

Newspeak. And on George Orwell&#039;s birthday no less.

Doubleplusungood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duuur, hi kids, I&#8217;m the music industry spokesman, and I&#8217;m here to tell you that its piracy whether you gain a copy with or without depriving a copy from someone else Now be honest, who here has ever downloaded something from the internet? Raise your hands please. OK, I&#8217;m going to need all your names and numbers. Also, can we call the cops? We&#8217;re going to need this lot to be held for questioning.</p>
<p>Shoplifting and piracy are not synonyms.<br />
Are they really going to try and use newspeak consistently in their statements?</p>
<p>Newspeak. And on George Orwell&#8217;s birthday no less.</p>
<p>Doubleplusungood.</p>
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		<title>By: SteelWolf</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/23937/comment-page-1#comment-977097</link>
		<dc:creator>SteelWolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=23937#comment-977097</guid>
		<description>I was about to post the same thing as Rabbit. This only protects against physical theft, and if the &quot;activated&quot; product is in any way usable, it will be ripped, cracked, and released online. I wish I had gotten into DRM instead of going to school - you can sell these people practically anything and they will sink millions into it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was about to post the same thing as Rabbit. This only protects against physical theft, and if the &#8220;activated&#8221; product is in any way usable, it will be ripped, cracked, and released online. I wish I had gotten into DRM instead of going to school &#8211; you can sell these people practically anything and they will sink millions into it!</p>
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		<title>By: Rabbit80</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/23937/comment-page-1#comment-977096</link>
		<dc:creator>Rabbit80</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=23937#comment-977096</guid>
		<description>I fail to understand how this will make any difference whatsoever...

Most  stores keep the disks behind the counter which prevents the casual thief from picking them up and walking out with them! This would also have zero impact on piracy / digital distribution! The figures used are once again dreamed up out of thin air!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fail to understand how this will make any difference whatsoever&#8230;</p>
<p>Most  stores keep the disks behind the counter which prevents the casual thief from picking them up and walking out with them! This would also have zero impact on piracy / digital distribution! The figures used are once again dreamed up out of thin air!</p>
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