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Oh, Tom…

Since none of the providers that have claimed to have congestion problems have actually bothered to produce the proof, the claim itself has no merit, and therefore, reducing someone’s transfer to a 10th of its possible speed for 40% of the day, without offering any rebate or discounting of the customer’s bill cannot be construed as anything else but extortion.

This has nothing to do with the condition of Malaysia’s internet, or whether a Marxist government is involved, or how low the Dow-Jones dipped that morning. If I have a possible total transfer of 500KB/s, based on my own connection, and a strong number of seeds totalling over 1GB/s, it would be my provider that is choosing to dumb me down to only 30KB/s. That’s only one part of the beef.

Additionally, if congestion was an actual problem, then why throttle for prolonged periods of time? For every user being reduced to a 10th of their capabilities, that’s a file taking 10 TIMES AS LONG to transfer, and the user waiting for it is not clearing the line. And, since the throttling is being done relentlessly for 8-11 hours in succession, none of these delayed users get to reclaim any of that lost capacity (and get out of the way) when the supposed congestion has subsided. Add those users who haven’t cleared their transfers to the additional users that come into it during that time, and then add all the retransmitted packets to replace the ones thrown away in the process, and all the throttling has succeeded in doing is delaying information transfers for nothing! It actually appears to cause more trouble than it’s supposed to solve.

As to the hose analogy, that one also ignores the very basic “supply/demand/pricing” argument you keep side-stepping. It’s “HORSE, then CART”, and not the other way around.

If buying a bigger hosepipe is what it takes to meet your promises, then that is what you do. You don’t waste time, energy and money looking for ways around that fact either. Sadly, admitting ones mistakes and accepting responsibility for them is a rare thing in this day and age no matter who you are. That is especially true of businesses whom tend to care more about their public image and profit than anything else.

Thomas Koltai Says: “To all those that dont understand – obtain one gallon can – fill up with two gallons. When you have done so – please write the secret of your method in here.”

Ok, so I went out and purchased a one gallon can. When I got home I excitedly tried to fill it up, but to my immense dismay I discovered it was defective and could only hold about one third of a gallon. I tried to return it but couldn’t. The fine print on the receipt said ‘No refunds!’.

Henry Emrich Says: “But hey, it’s nice to know that some people will always find a way to apologize for just about anything.”

They’ll also find ways to rationalize just about any act, no matter how heinous. As humans, our ability for self delusion knows no bounds. It’s why people are able to convince themselves to believe their own lies. All it takes is saying it enough times to become true in their minds.

What part of “completely missing the point” is so hard for you to understand?

All of your apologetics for the poor widdle ISPs ignores the critical fact that (at least stateside) one of their biggest selling-points is bullshit about “super-fast downloads”, etc. And all your gas-cans and hose-pipes and suchlike amount to exactly ONE thing: the fact that ISP’s lied about what their infrstructure can actually do. (Of course, we’re all used to corporate weasels “over-hyping” their product.

So if their “only selling browser bandwidth”, then they should goddamn well admit that fact, stop lying to their user-base about superfast pipes and suchlike, and — here’s an idea — actually DEPLOY WHAT THEY ***CAIM*** TO ALREADY BE SELLING US.

If I buy a tuxedo that’s advertised to be a certain size, and lo and behold, when I get home and put it on I find out that it’s three sizes too small, they’ve ripped me off, and are guilty either of negligence, false advertising, or both, and no amount of hand-wringing is going to change that.

What’s doubly ironic — and downright troubling, from my point of view — is that you come out with this bullshit while claiming to be a “p2p advocate”. Businesses should actually give their customers at least *some* idea of what they’re buying, but that’s evidently hard for you to understand (which is downright odd, seeing as your an economist and all).

You’re a fan of pithy analogies, so here’s one for ya:

Dog-food + label advertising “fillet mignon” = scam.

But hey, it’s nice to know that some people will always find a way to apologize for just about anything.

Devils Advocate, you are correct in a non-p2p world – but if any of the peers you are exchanging files are in places like San Paolo or Ho Chi Minh city or Dar es Salaam – And I’m willing to be that they are then your isp is filling up at some exchange meet-me point and throttling so that crc’s are not repeated umpteen times (that tends to destroy any network). If for example – you limited your peers to a “friends list” of local IP numbers only – I’m willing to bet that throttling would disappear. If you truly want to understand who you are peering with – get a tool called Geo-Spider (http://www.oreware.com/viewprogram.php?prog=22) its shareware but works free for a while and track all your connected IP’s geographically (You have to click the little spider under the word File). Then maybe you will get some “clue” as to why ALL isp’s have to throttle at some point of their network.

Wake up guys – A hose pipe is a hose pipe – it can only accept x volume. You can buy a bigger hosepipe but that takes time to turn up and configure. You need to revisit peering agreements with other players. The internet is a constantly evolving network.

There is not a single ISP that sells P2P bandwidth anywhere in the world – they sell HTTP bandwidth.
If everyone used only browsers (not Opera in p2p mode) and everyone adhered to a code of conduct – I will only download from my local peers =- suddenly speeds would increase enormously and no-one would complain about throttling because it wouldnt be necessary.
ISP’s are not just a group of folks that charge for a free ARPA.net hand-me-down – they add value by managing the traffic for the benefit of all their customers.

It is unfortunate for ISP’s that 87% of their customers now utilise some form of file sharing software.
Emule is possible the worst offender. It requires connectivity 24/7 to be a viable tool. But that connectivity could be scheduled at lower data rates – rather than flat out all the time.

To all those that dont understand – obtain one gallon can – fill up with two gallons. When you have done so – please write the secret of your method in here.
OR better yet – submit it for publication to elsevier – it will be the most purchased academic paper in the world.

They live in either Canada or the US, and are complaining about the providers in Canada or the US. It’s the North American providers that have sold them a service they’re either unable or unwilling to fulfill, while continuing to take more liberties for themselves all the time.

Why should these customers give a monkey shit about how service may be wired outside of the boundaries of their own problems? Malasia’s economy has nothing to do with ComCast’s ability to honour their contracts.

And now we share information and movies and music.

Even the ALOHA network was first invented in a “US” state, Hawaii. And how many people who visit Hawaii actually know about it or try to see how it worked?

So you’ll have to pardon the ignorance, we take a lot for granted.

@Devil’s Advocate Says:
July 2nd, 2009 at 1:11 pm

“…when some little kid comes along with Napster and tries to take it down…”

Shortsightedness (or lack of foresight) always seems to be followed by transfer of blame.

There are very obvious reasons providers would even have to think of traffic management.
1) They didn’t anticipate the growth rate, so SUFFICIENT RESOURCES weren’t built in;
2) They continued to OVERSELL what they already couldn’t provide, by an astronomical factor;
3) They began operating an array of THEIR OWN CONTENT services, and needed to steal back some of the resources they didn’t have.

@RW – you forgot the fourth thing.

4) Bandwidth to the USA for countries not in the USA costs a bloody fortune. In fact to be precise, 1n 1994 I was paying $88,000 for a 2 Megabyte link (that’s one DSL connection worth of bandwidth) from Sydney to Coos Bay Oregon.
So don’t try to tell me that I wasnt warranted in trying to stop little Johnny. I was.

The arrogance of Americans and Canadians in regards to the amount of bandwidth available and what it shoud cost is amazing.
The orignal Internet was USA concentric – that is no longer necessarily the case – yet it is cheaper often to buy a link from singapore to America than from singapore to Malaysia (just across the harbour).
Outside of the USA ISP’s have to backhaul 10,000 miles in some instances just to connect. To have that backhaul used up by just 2 or 5 or 10 users is bullshit. That is reality.

There are 6 billion people in this world of those only 335 million live on the American Northern Continent. Why is it that the American minority see fit to instill their standards, expectations and consumer waste habits on the rest of the world ?

/Angry Rant Mode /off

@ Robert – Yep – P2P is great from the ISP point of view if it community based. This rtequires every ISP to install a Torrent Seeder and an ED2K server. However, I can’t recomend this superior technology solution at this time for obvious legal reasons.

@surfer and @dresdnik – Yes we do already pay for content. ut not in the $35,00 blueray example. We pay for content in that the cvontent uses up part of out monthly allowance – ISP capacity (preventing other activities from occurring that might benefit the GDP) and of course in Disk storage, hardware expendioture at the local, ISP and RBOC levels. So actually, a 90 minute movie if you download it using P2P actually costs $1.05 in the USA, about $1.65 in Canada. I blogged about this in January this year An International Analysis of the Real Value of a Digital DVD Movie here –>http://www.perceptric.com/blog/_archives/2009/1/10/4051203.html

@ Readers Write – Smoker on a bus ? Yep in my original article I stated the smoker has two choices – smoke and upset everyone or get off the bus and catch the next one. – Unfortunately we really do only have one Internet Bus. So like Mommy says – play nicely and the toys will last a lot longer.

@Reader’s Write – Solar Cell Battery Recharge Time – You have a point but as an Economist I have to retort – it’s a rather selfish one. Your Battery recharge time don’t affect the GDP of the entire country – just yours.

And on the subject of Turd Sandwich – there is a saying, you cant polish a turd.
Unfortunately the Mythbusters proved that one wrong –> http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-polishing-a-turd.html

P2P does affect the GDP of the entire country – and not just the content industry – I have tried to make suggestions to them, thry doet really want to listen – I am referring to every E-Commerce page on the IOnternet is harder to to get to BECASUE of P2P traffic – both genuine downloader traffic AND industry spoling attempts.

Does that mean you should stop using P2P software ?
NO! But just maybe, we could all conserve it a little bit – sort of like letting the old lady cross on the pediastrian crossing when you dont have too.

Just an idea, no-one has to give up their selfish P2P practices (This statement excludes the old folks home IT dude – you keep on downloading at full speed) – I’m just suggesting that during the fianncial crisis it is a bit unfair for all of us to continue as before and put our heads in the sand…. “I’m not hurting anyone, I’m just downloading a couple of files that have already been ripped.” – Great download them – but just like turning off the light switch to conserve power – possibly we could all utilise P2P in a more eco concsious manner. (Eco towards other Internet users).

@James: Winter = Reduced sunlight intensity at a given latitude = Reduced battery charging rate via solar cells

the RIAA fucked itself when it filed the first lawsuit against Napster, there are many things within your control, but one of them is not, the internet. the MAFIAA will implore more insidious activities like MediaDefender (because its’ shit already ‘flew’ in court.) like ACS Law and Davenport & Lyons.

ders money in dem dar hills – every shit lawyer that exists

It’s very true that providers underestimated demand and oversold what they didn’t have enough of. Expanding and adapting is costly so why bother when it is easier to simply punish your users? It is their fault after all, right? The thing is it’s not. Customers are only trying to use what they’re paying for every month. At some point providers decided to quietly redefine the term “unlimited” to mean something other than what the dictionary says it means, then follow that up by inspecting our packets so they could employ bandwidth limiting techniques and charging us overage charges for going over and above what they’ve decided unlimited really means. To top things off, some providers are starting to manipulate their users into using ISP approved services and blocking or limiting access to anything they see as competition. Hmm, I wonder why customers are becoming increasingly irate and the term “net neutrality” comes up more and more often.

Smoker on a bus? Create a second bus so that you have one for smokers and another for non-smokers. Gas and electricity aren’t very good examples. Both are limited by resources and expansion cannot change the fact that there is an ultimate limit to those resources. Most electricity comes from coal fire plants. Coal and natural gas are fossil fuels that comes from the ground. Once those two resources are gone, their gone for good. Internet bandwidth on the other hand has no limit so long as technology keeps advancing. Unlike coal and natural gas, bandwidth is a resource that CAN be increased. The industry responsible for it’s creation need to stop underestimating how much is needed or will be needed in the future. As long as the human population keeps growing out of control, so will it’s need for bandwidth. Planning for the future isn’t exactly rocket science folks. I swear, if anything it is like trying to teach a child the concept of saving up their allowance instead of spending it all the moment they get it. Providers seem more eager to pocket any profits they make right now rather than reinvest it in order to make even more in the future, which would ultimately be a win win for all. Sadly selfishness and greed are what rule these days, rewarded even, and I fear humanity will be doomed because of it.

It might be “an objective way” to view it, but to me, it’s also the RIGHT way to view it.
Propaganda has a unique way of burying truth, logic and reality.
Propaganda distracts everyone and keeps them busy arguing about non-essential points, while the “powers that be” work in the background to have “troublesome” obstacles (your rights) removed by some false “mass acceptance” that actually never took place.

In other words, they keep you busy “justifying P2P” by spreading BS all over the place about how “the technology is destroying the network” and how “P2P users are selfish pricks that take everyone else’s bandwidth in their 24/7/365 quest for copyrighted materials to steal” – all the while, sneaking in meetings with IP lobby groups and our governments on how they’re going to help “fix the problem” (which they created) with “network management tools” (think “DPI, throttling, etc.”) and “cooperate with law enforcement” to keep the “abusers” from running amok!

If they succeed, the providers will have the spying equipment they’ve been drooling over, and the ability to control the flow of information to their advantage wherever desired, all at the blessing of our elected government, and the Big Corporate Machine will be a major step closer to actually “owning” the Internet.

This is all because, truthfully, people are too absorbed in their own personal shit and can’t pay attention, collectively, to what’s being taken away from them daily, bit by bit, by the very companies they’ve contracted for things. After a “busy day”, they’re more apt to take in the propaganda from these companies through the Mainstream News, and not realize how much it conflicts with basic logic. By the time they understand the deception and how important it is to deflect it, they’ve already lost something to it.

Yeah, Dredd!
Stop talking “shit”, eh?!
: )

[considers changing handle to "Mr. Hankie"]
8 P

and to clarify, I have a visual of two pieces of bread with a turd inside, no mayo, no lettuce. with a sprig of parsley on the side.

stw

/tries to ignore future turd references…. giggle…

Cheers!

But, can we clarify?…
Is the turd in the middle (of the sandwich), or is someone/something else being sandwiched by turd?
: )

outstanding

stw ”

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