But they’re now both regular contributors, I’m very happy to say.
Tom used to own an ISP business in Oz, and surfer is a dedicated P2P fan.
See if you can guess who’s who?
File sharers comprise a tiny 5% minority of ISP customers who are screwing things up for everyone else, claim the likes of Bell Canada and Comcast in the US.
With that in mind, here in the Great North we’ve just begun to enjoy the Traffic throttling Super Bowl!
For me, file throttling is just another names for censorship and corporate control.
Below, Tom and surfer tell it like they each see it.
Tom Koltai says in a Reader’s Write »»»
The Internet has never been net neutral. Someone has always had to pay. Pre-commercialisation – you guys paid through your taxes. Now that you are users you are paying through monthly subs. Capitalism is about paying what the market will bear. If the customers leave – the ISP`s will change their pricing and throttling policies.
Most custmers won`t leave. Man is a creature of habit.
Air is neutral and free (mostly), Seawater in the middle of the ocean is free.
Internet is not free.
All ISP`s are constantly in a state of massive bandwidth growth.
Five years ago, P2P users 27% of allocated bandwidth. Today it is 87% of all bandwidth allocated.Without Throttling – tommorrow it will be 99%.
Face it boys and girls, the growth of P2P is faster than the ISP`s can add bandwidth. They can either throttle and loose a few customers – or not throttle and loose all their major clients.
A Truism for the day: No-one can add bandwidth as fast as Torrent uses it up.
Already ISP`s are offering premium guaranteed shaped (Service Level Guaranteed) services. This will become more prevalent and is indicative of a maturing industry. So for those of you disatisfied – ring your ISP and say – I want 5 GBps guaranteed – can you fix me up please. They will, for a price.
Home account DSL is sold on a best efforts delivery basis – it doesnt not have an SLG attached to it.
Would I like higher connection speeds?
Sure – I`m 8 km`s from the exchange and I`m stuck on 512 kbps with 20 GB per month cap. My business partner lives 11 kms from his exchange and he has to connect via satelite .. (about 128 Kb).
Do I believe that my downloads should fly? They do – for about 4 hours every morning between 1:00 am and 5 am. The rest of the time – the little ratsnest of Internet users called the Antipodies (Oz) use up all of my potential bandwidth. How dare they.
You can all argue as much as you like. Unfortunately you`re wrong – but you are all wearing rose coloured glasses.
Each one of the posters in this thread, is as guilty for causing the bottleneck forcing RBOC`s to throttle as the others not posting and just lurking.
The only way to stop throttling is to ease back on the full boar downloading AND video streaming. But I dont why I bother. You guys developed consumerism to a fine art – Everything for Americans – F*** the rest of the world.
I`m afaid, that particular fairytale is over.
@SteelWolf – You said:
Thanks for covering this debate, Jon. I think DA and Rocky are right on here, and the fact that Rocky is able to practice what he`s preaching takes a lot of the wind out of Tom Koltai`s sails. Even if Tom is 100% correct in his justifications (excuses?) for throttling, there is still the fact that providers here are not delivering what`s been promised.
I don`t throttle Steelwolf, I havent run an ISP since April 2001. But I would be interested in how many of Rocky`s customers can still download at full speed on their bonded DSL connections ?
You see, Rocky`s argument is based on a commercial premise – Get more customers. I have no such agenda.
Whilst I think Rocky`s business plan is forward thinking and commendable, the RBOC`s have no choice financially but to limit and throttle.
You see, scarcity drives value. If a product is ubiquitously available at low cost, then it has no perceived value and the market collapses. If the Net was truly net neutral, then Rocky`s arbitrage opportunity would turn to vapourware.
Beleive it or not – the more the RBOC`s throttle individual connections – the more successful Rocky`s business is – because more people will feel the need to bond DSL connections.
______________________ | ______________________
surfer says in a Reader’s Write »»»
I find it impossible to believe that an ISP`s profit margin is to `tread water` ONLY, and doesn`t include a modicum of profit. Why would you be in business if you were only in it to `break even`.
With that fact firmly in place, the onus is on the ISP to expand your hardware, which in turn expands your reach, which in turn expands the amount of CUSTOMERS you can provide for, which in turn expands your bottom line. If you are trying to instill a false sense of prudence when it comes to your business model, please save the sob story for your pastor/rabbi/psychologist.
You are a business in the 21st century, you are only in it for profit, at the behest of your customers.
First you claimed to be `dumb pipes`, satisfied with a modicum of profit X customer. Increase customers, increase profit. You began stuffing as many customers into the pipe as possible until the pipe got full, then you continued to stuff, and stuff, and then stuff some more in there, all in the holy crusade of profits. At one point you had to make a decision, increase the pipe size or continue to listen/lose irate customers.
You `fix` the system so there are limited options to customers for a provider, all in the name of `competition`?
Am I really supposed to believe that?
Now the pipe is (over)full, and instead of expanding the capability of the pipe, you cry incessantly `bandwidth hogs`, boo hoo. All the while the profit margin per customer increases due to technology, better switches, better routers, FIOS, et al. You are willing to upgrade your equipment for better profits, but not for your PAYING CUSTOMERS ?!!?
I pay for electricity, it has a meter, that was all part of the agreement up front. I have internet, it doesn`t have a meter, it states I have 6Mbit/6Mbit connectivity, therefore I can use every bit in/out for however long I want 24/7 for a flat rate.
This is the agreement I have, written on paper. I move ~250Gb/mo in bandwidth, utilizing 80%-90% of that pipe I pay for, therefore my provider is profiting from the bandwidth I DONT use, allowing someone else to use it, so in the end, it all balances out.
Now ISPs see the $$$ in being content providers, just look at BT throttling streaming video from other sources than its` own, how creative. Very profitable. So in the interests of profits, not customers, you forgot you are `dumb pipes`, and want a piece of that profit pie at the behest of your paying audience.
You say there is no Net Neutrality, I say there will ALWAYS be Net Neutrality.
Throttle port 12000, and I will move ports.
Throttle packets for p2p transfers, and I will encrypt them.
The internet evolves, you (ISPs) apparently do not. For every backasswards attempt to shape the internet for ever increasing profits, there will be something out there to foil your little extortion plan.
Never forget, WE the internet consumers, pay your salaries.
Stay tuned …
Jon Newton – p2pnet
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win ~ Mahatma Gandhi
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