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	<title>Comments on: Remember Grey Tuesday?</title>
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		<title>By: Henry Emrich</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/24818/comment-page-1#comment-978741</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry Emrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 04:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=24818#comment-978741</guid>
		<description>IN case you wondered, that&#039;s why I find you to be cool, Surfer -- you may be into the whole &quot;underground&quot; thing, but you also step up and (at least pseudonymously) speak out for what&#039;s right.

   Pardon me if I seem really edgy lately, folks....personal stuff going on lately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IN case you wondered, that&#8217;s why I find you to be cool, Surfer &#8212; you may be into the whole &#8220;underground&#8221; thing, but you also step up and (at least pseudonymously) speak out for what&#8217;s right.</p>
<p>   Pardon me if I seem really edgy lately, folks&#8230;.personal stuff going on lately.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry Emrich</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/24818/comment-page-1#comment-978739</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry Emrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:50:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=24818#comment-978739</guid>
		<description>I gotta jump in on this one:

   Why do I put my name out there?  
   Easy:
   (And please nobody take this the wrong way) :)

  1. &quot;Underground&quot; scenes are absolutely no threat to whatever the Status Quo happens to be. 
  &quot;Speakeasies&quot; were no threat to Prohibition, for example.  Hell, the Status Quo LOVES the existence of &quot;undergrounds&quot;, because they serve to justify the draconian bullshit against which they&#039;re supposedly &quot;rebelling&quot;.  Add to that, the fact that they tend to deteriorate into pathetic little status-trips.  (Look at the status-seeking, cliquishness etc. involved in the so-called &quot;release scene&quot;, Private trackers, etc.  Status trips are evil, because when it&#039;s about status and &quot;rep&quot;, it&#039;s no longer about principle -- which is pretty much why I take an interest in the p2p debate.

   That&#039;s also why I didn&#039;t waste the time joining your &quot;underground&quot;, Surfer.
   Sure it might give me access to a digital treasure-trove, but ultimately, it completely and utterly fails to challenge the RIAA, MPAA, corporate &quot;personhood&quot;, or gas-bag vermin like &quot;Sam I Am&quot;, and their misinformation campaign.  Nope, not gonna happen.

   So yeah, I&#039;m more than willing to have the balls to let people know my stand on p2p, copy&quot;right&quot;, corporate personhood, or any of it.
   And Y&#039;know what?  Ultimately, as we&#039;ve seen with the RIAA&#039;s sue-em-all campaign, you don&#039;t even have to DO anything to be targeted.  (Dead people and printers getting served is just a bad sign.)  The only way to take the existing system on, is by taking it on -- using permissive licenses, agitating for copy&quot;right&quot; term reductions, deliberately doing things that push the boundaries of &quot;fair-use&quot;, etc. etc.

   Sorry if anybody finds this offensive, but I figure your run-of-the-mill remix/mashup creator is doing more for the p2p/&quot;free culture&quot; principles than any &quot;underground&quot; could ever hope to, no matter how organized or technically knowledgeable.

   Besides, it&#039;s not even ABOUT what the RIAA/MPAA wants to believe, for me.
   I love music blogs (especially the one over at www.wfmu.org) because they give you access to something besides Clear-channels idiotic pablum, and I think music bloggers are just about the ballsiest and most &quot;subversive&quot; people out there right now, because they&#039;re actually making stuff accessible on a grand scale, and -- as some guy on WFMU blog expressed it -- helping the Internet to &quot;massacre obscurity&quot;.

   To my way of thinking, THAT&#039;S where it&#039;s at -- not some kind of digital &quot;fortress of solitude&quot; where the name of the game is hiding from &quot;the Man&quot;.  Bad laws need to be changed, and the first step to achieving that is having the balls to openly -- and proudly -- challenge them.

   So yeah, TPB&#039;s refusal to go along with takedown notices/tendency to sneer at the DMCA was really cool, because it faced the issues head-on.  &quot;Scene&quot; folks bragging about their &quot;Zero-day&quot; warez and releases are pathetic, no matter the quality of their products.

   Do I think &quot;undergrounds&quot; have a use? Sorta.  If you&#039;re so tech-savvy and clued in on the issues and stuff, the &quot;above-ground&quot; side of the thing could use people like that.  Why not do something to educate those you dismiss as &quot;average&quot; users?  And above all, instead of merely hiding from bad laws, DO SOMETHING.

   &quot;Anonymous&quot; strikes me as infinitely more ballsy than any &quot;underground&quot; could every be.

   Just my 2 cents, no offense meant to Surfer or anybody. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I gotta jump in on this one:</p>
<p>   Why do I put my name out there?<br />
   Easy:<br />
   (And please nobody take this the wrong way) <img src='http://www.p2pnet.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>  1. &#8220;Underground&#8221; scenes are absolutely no threat to whatever the Status Quo happens to be.<br />
  &#8220;Speakeasies&#8221; were no threat to Prohibition, for example.  Hell, the Status Quo LOVES the existence of &#8220;undergrounds&#8221;, because they serve to justify the draconian bullshit against which they&#8217;re supposedly &#8220;rebelling&#8221;.  Add to that, the fact that they tend to deteriorate into pathetic little status-trips.  (Look at the status-seeking, cliquishness etc. involved in the so-called &#8220;release scene&#8221;, Private trackers, etc.  Status trips are evil, because when it&#8217;s about status and &#8220;rep&#8221;, it&#8217;s no longer about principle &#8212; which is pretty much why I take an interest in the p2p debate.</p>
<p>   That&#8217;s also why I didn&#8217;t waste the time joining your &#8220;underground&#8221;, Surfer.<br />
   Sure it might give me access to a digital treasure-trove, but ultimately, it completely and utterly fails to challenge the RIAA, MPAA, corporate &#8220;personhood&#8221;, or gas-bag vermin like &#8220;Sam I Am&#8221;, and their misinformation campaign.  Nope, not gonna happen.</p>
<p>   So yeah, I&#8217;m more than willing to have the balls to let people know my stand on p2p, copy&#8221;right&#8221;, corporate personhood, or any of it.<br />
   And Y&#8217;know what?  Ultimately, as we&#8217;ve seen with the RIAA&#8217;s sue-em-all campaign, you don&#8217;t even have to DO anything to be targeted.  (Dead people and printers getting served is just a bad sign.)  The only way to take the existing system on, is by taking it on &#8212; using permissive licenses, agitating for copy&#8221;right&#8221; term reductions, deliberately doing things that push the boundaries of &#8220;fair-use&#8221;, etc. etc.</p>
<p>   Sorry if anybody finds this offensive, but I figure your run-of-the-mill remix/mashup creator is doing more for the p2p/&#8221;free culture&#8221; principles than any &#8220;underground&#8221; could ever hope to, no matter how organized or technically knowledgeable.</p>
<p>   Besides, it&#8217;s not even ABOUT what the RIAA/MPAA wants to believe, for me.<br />
   I love music blogs (especially the one over at <a href="http://www.wfmu.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.wfmu.org</a>) because they give you access to something besides Clear-channels idiotic pablum, and I think music bloggers are just about the ballsiest and most &#8220;subversive&#8221; people out there right now, because they&#8217;re actually making stuff accessible on a grand scale, and &#8212; as some guy on WFMU blog expressed it &#8212; helping the Internet to &#8220;massacre obscurity&#8221;.</p>
<p>   To my way of thinking, THAT&#8217;S where it&#8217;s at &#8212; not some kind of digital &#8220;fortress of solitude&#8221; where the name of the game is hiding from &#8220;the Man&#8221;.  Bad laws need to be changed, and the first step to achieving that is having the balls to openly &#8212; and proudly &#8212; challenge them.</p>
<p>   So yeah, TPB&#8217;s refusal to go along with takedown notices/tendency to sneer at the DMCA was really cool, because it faced the issues head-on.  &#8220;Scene&#8221; folks bragging about their &#8220;Zero-day&#8221; warez and releases are pathetic, no matter the quality of their products.</p>
<p>   Do I think &#8220;undergrounds&#8221; have a use? Sorta.  If you&#8217;re so tech-savvy and clued in on the issues and stuff, the &#8220;above-ground&#8221; side of the thing could use people like that.  Why not do something to educate those you dismiss as &#8220;average&#8221; users?  And above all, instead of merely hiding from bad laws, DO SOMETHING.</p>
<p>   &#8220;Anonymous&#8221; strikes me as infinitely more ballsy than any &#8220;underground&#8221; could every be.</p>
<p>   Just my 2 cents, no offense meant to Surfer or anybody. <img src='http://www.p2pnet.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: surfer</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/24818/comment-page-1#comment-978649</link>
		<dc:creator>surfer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:30:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=24818#comment-978649</guid>
		<description>&#039;look ma, im on TV!&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;look ma, im on TV!&#8217;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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