CIPPIC on Twitter: final net neutrality tweets
p2pnet news view Freedom | P2P:- Today is the last of six days in the CRTC hearings into net neutrality in Canada.
CIPPIC (Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clini) has been covering the hearings chirp-by-chirp, with p2pnet following its Twitter tweets.
The Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) decision, “on a complaint filed by the Canadian Association of Internet Providers (CAIP) over the way that Bell ’shapes’ or ‘throttles’ certain types of Internet traffic” will be issued on Thursday, says the Globe and Mail.
Meanwhile, “And awaaaay we go,” said the first post of the final dayof the hearing, featuring Bell Canada, listing Bell’s Three Steps to Heaven »»»
Bell: Fundamentally this hearing about innovation, without one iota of proof parties have suggested that ITMP is bad of innov #netneutrality
Bell: Regulatory rules would limit or ban innovation at the network layer. ISPs should not be making editorial decisions #netneutrality
- Bell: We have a three prong approach to managing congestion. 1) Capital spending. We can’t invest unlimitedly. #netneutrality
- Bell: 2) Pricing and new business models. It helps but it’s not enough. #netneutrality
- Bell: 3) Privacy. Be consistent with the law. #netneutrality
Bell: We would like a reasonableness standard, it’s better than a least intrusive test. #netneutrality
Konrad: P2P seems to be the flashpoint. You can not detect all of them (eg. encrypted) what is your view of this. #netneutrality
Bell: Short answer: The TMP we do is effective to serve consumers, we might miss some P2P. #netneutrality
Bell: At peak, it’s less than throughout the day, that shows we catch some P2P. We’d prefer not to create false positives. #netneutrality
Konrad: When in doubt you let things through? Bell: Yes. (???!!!) #netneutrality
Konrad: We’ve heard a couple of different practices from ISPs regarding time of day and triggers. Why different methods? #netneutrality
Bell: Short answer, each ISP looks what works for them. We are not aware of any unreasonable practice in Canadian market. #netneutrality
Konrad: Why can’t you use the “Shaw approach”? Only throttling when you have to throttle. #netneutrality
Bell: Big difference between cable and DSL… #netneutrality
Bell: It’s a technological problem, we couldn’t possibly do it. (Some head shaking from the network peeps in the crowd) #netneutrality
Konrad: Why couldn’t you do time-of-day pricing. Bell: Customers already had that type of thing and prices will go up. #netneutrality
Bell: The market is not to a point where time-of-day billing. That’s all we’re comfortable saying “on the record” #netneutrality
Bell: 87% of users are happy with their Internet right now. Time of day too complicated. #netneutrality
Note: Comcast said that it would be impossible to manage their network any differently to the FCC. Took 4mnth to fix it. #netneutrality
Konrad: Videotron suggested that they have controlled traffic well with economic means. #netneutrality
RT @michaelgeist: Bell cites Harris poll that people happy with service. Reader sent me on of the q’s last night. It was… #netneutrality
RT @michaelgeist: “Did you know that your neighbour’s movie d’load is slowing down your internet?”. #netneutrality
Bell is describing how BAS and GAS works with pictures. #netneutrality
These are new diagrams I think, so not available online anywhere. #netneutrality
Bell: We can only turn on TMPs for all wholesalers or no wholesalers. #netneutrality
Re: Encrypted – In their submissions they say that they do catch any encrypted traffic not on known ports. #netneutrality
Bell: Removal of shaping would leave to poorer customer service and would cost more or shift investment from elsewhere. #netneutrality
Konrad: Heard from UdC, should be clear measurement based evidence, little is publicly available. #netneutrality
Bell: P2P is 27% of the traffic on our network. We focus on it because it operates poorly in a congested network state. #netneutrality
Looks like Bell has dropped their bitcaps a fair bit. #netneutrality
They have a new graphic, it’s essentially showing that if there is 3 users, each should get 1/3. But with P2P one gets 1/2. #netneutrality
Bell: Lots of other ISPs that throt…. traffic shape the download. Konrad: Let’s take a 5 minute break. #netneutrality
Bell: Utilization data is a reasonable proxy for queue data for determining whether or not there is congestion. #netneutrality
Bell: Top 10% of users are responsible for 96% of the P2P traffic. (Sounds like early adopters?) #netneutrality
Konrad: You’re telling me that PIPEDA would allow you to use the ITMP for marketing if you get consent. #netneutrality
Bell: Internally we have said that it never will be, we only want to use it for ITMP. #netneutrality
Konrad: So you wouldn’t mind if we said you were never allowed to use it for something else. #netneutrality
Bell: Erm well if that’s what you say that’s what we’ll do. #netneutrality
Konrad: Why are you so attached to the reasonableness standard? #netneutrality
Bell: “Least intrusive” means that a judgment has to be made as to whether there is a better solution out there. #netneutrality
Bell: There might be a bunch of complaints that the commission would have to hear. #netneutrality
Konrad: Where does the subjectivity come in? It would be a reasonable decision based on evidence. #netneutrality
Bell: Problem with protocol agnostic: focuses on people and throttles everything. Some (OIC) will tell you it’s intrusive #netneutrality
Katz: Does your public and private (managed) stuff impact each other? Bell: Yes, same pipes. #netneutrality
Bell: Architecture for IPTV is that you build out the private services and guarantee that traffic. #netneutrality
Bell We wouldn’t under build the architecture for IPTV and have it impact public internet (Because they’ve never under built) #netneutrality
Katz: Primus can do some of these things, are your networks that different? #netneutrality
Katz: They can do it during congested periods only, you said this was impossible. BTW 10 hours is not narrowly focused at all #netneutrality
Bell: Maybe they’re manually watching their network and switching things on and off by hand. (O.o) #netneutrality
Katz: You say narrow focused but it’s still 4pm until 2am, that’s hardly narrow. #netneutrality
Bell: It’s narrowly focused because it changes during the day. No evidence to prove that impact on non timesensitive. #netneutrality
Bell: We will be putting more detailed information on the website. #netneutrality
Bell: 15% of end users are GAS end users, they represent 31% of total traffic. Only problem during congestion. #netneutrality
@catmiddleton Lots of page turning going on, it’s certainly calmer than Shaw yesterday. There are at least 13 BC lawyer/etc in the room.
@luclatulippe There is a live stream of the audio. http://bit.ly/3FSC3L
Molnar: Would you consider DPI as a network innovation? Bell: Absolutely. #netneutrality
Molnar: Have you looked at future options? Is there plans to allow the controls to be in the hands of the customer. #netneutrality
Molnar: If you have to choose between the engineer and the marketer I think you’ve answered the question. #netneutrality
Bell: I’m not really a marketer, I really care about the customer. I don’t think that controls are implementable. #netneutrality
Bell: We don’t really want to rule out anything. But always looking to augment and make money from our network. #netneutrality
LaM: More than just about innovation. You say there is no evidence for their allegations. Problem is you have that data. #netneutrality
Bell: Us being Bell, we hear about issues very quickly. Lots of research being done. None has shown P2P being an issue. #netneutrality
LaM: Rogers said that customer experience is only based on download. Telus doesn’t throttle at all. Why do you throttle DL? #netneutrality
Bell: Can’t speak to Telus didn’t. Our problem is in the download. #netneutrality
Bell: We don’t do shaping in the Atlantic problems because we don’t see congestion there. Lower peak usage per user. #netneutrality
LaM: You just reduced your cheapest bitcap by 10x. Most popular went from 60GB to 25. Prices are the same. Why throttle too? #netneutrality
Bell: To get to the peak you have to get to per-minute pricing. We did lower prices in Ontario. (rly?) #netneutrality
LaM asking (in french) about usage of DPI for purposes other than simply traffic management. PIPEDA is general purpose #netneutrality
Bell: We can’t remember the last time we got a privacy complaint from customer or OPC, last one from CIPPIC. #netneutrality
Bell: It’s easy for P2P to change aspects of their flow. Shallow and flow inspection is much more expensive. #netneutrality
LaM: Privacy is a fundamental right, why not an Oakes-type test? #netneutrality
Bell: Big difference between the government and a private company. #netneutrality
LaM: We have a responsibility under 7(i) for privacy. Bell: We don’t want private companies with burden of oakes-like test. #netneutrality
Bell: We believe in privacy, but PIPEDA makes consent the bar. #netneutrality
Denton: I’ll be brief. You say more granular approach to bandwidth management. What do you mean? #netneutrality
Bell: We have some stuff in the lab, we are also looking at Cox/Primus solutions. #netneutrality
Denton: Why’d you decide on 2GB per month as the new bitcap? #netneutrality
Bell: We looked at the market and the competition and the pricing the market will bear. #netneutrality
Denton: You use TMP all the time. #netneutrality
Bell: We don’t use it all the time, just during peak periods. #netneutrality
Bell: We don’t use it if there is a MJ funeral going on on off hours. (Well we couldn’t finish without one last MJ I guess) #netneutrality
Bell: Wholesalers have other options, and stats show that they impact us. We don’t trust all wholesalers to do it. #netneutrality
Denton: Software problem? Bell: Tunnel IDs are dynamic, and it’s hard to know who’s who. #netneutrality
Bell: We’re saving them money by doing their TMP for them. #netneutrality
Denton: TMP are a byproduct of the inadequacy of competition. Discuss. #netneutrality
Bell: Apparently the UK is the panacea but still throttle BT. #netneutrality
Bell: it’s more about keep broadband prices reasonable for customers. #netneutrality
Bell: It’s highly competitive in Canada. Different solutions and options are available. Competition will not solve anything. #netneutrality
Bell is all finished. Konrad: Since you caused this in the first place … #netneutrality
And finally, from CIPPIC, “Thanks for following us for this hearing. We will continue to tweet events and issues, hopefully with much less frequency. #netneutrality.”
Now stay tuned.
For how long?
Who knows ….
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win ~ Mahatma Gandhi
July, 2009
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July 15th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
bell, rogers and telus should all be banned and fined trillions of dollars for putting their interests ahead of us and raping our bank accounts to boot. i hate piece of $hlt corporations that only care about themselves with the sole intention of ripping us off. please bring me these corporate ceo’s so i can take a baseball bat to their fcuking faces…