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	<title>Comments on: Joel lawsuit fund NOT for the RIAA</title>
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	<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/26160</link>
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		<title>By: Ray Beckerman</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/26160/comment-page-1#comment-980472</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Beckerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=26160#comment-980472</guid>
		<description>Jon, I have a bone to pick about your comment rules:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;Please no Spam, flaming (attacking others), trolling, and posting off-topic.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Aren&#039;t we still on the internet? Or did I take a wrong turn?

(Just kidding)

:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon, I have a bone to pick about your comment rules:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Please no Spam, flaming (attacking others), trolling, and posting off-topic.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Aren&#8217;t we still on the internet? Or did I take a wrong turn?</p>
<p>(Just kidding)</p>
<p> <img src='http://www.p2pnet.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: voxleo</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/26160/comment-page-1#comment-980448</link>
		<dc:creator>voxleo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=26160#comment-980448</guid>
		<description>You know, I have to say that as much as Joel may have walked into the lion&#039;s den, I don&#039;t know that it&#039;s because he thought he might get away with something or was fool enough to think he might win even though he was &quot;guilty.&quot;  (I use the term in quotes because I do not care to re-affirm the notion of his actions as criminal even if he does not deny them.)  It would seem that the water runs hot and cold here at p2pnet: on one day talking smack about the &quot;biyatches&quot; and the next day criticising the various defendants for stepping in the bear-trap which was clearly flagged as such.  For all the flapjawing and &quot;down with the corporate a-holes&quot; bullshit, most of us are much more bark than bite.  I like to think that Joel just might have done this (even against all odds) for the decent reason that he thinks his behavior simply wasn&#039;t criminal and he oughtn&#039;t be prosecuted for it (or persecuted for that matter...Or extorted... Or  intimidated...)    Each of us should consider what path we would have chosen if we were the target instead of him and how much moxie it might take to resist the path of least resistance.   

Imagine how much of a fuster-cluck we might be in if there were no one willing to set an example of how to fight tyranny.  How is it that we have forgotten that LAW is made by PEOPLE and instead seem to be allowing LAW to subjugate the common good and common sense?  Law is not the judge of morality, only a set of agreed upon boundaries, and should have no power over what we decide it ought to have.   If the battle is going to be fought on legal ground then we must start standing on the field in order to fight, else lose by forfeit anyway.  Even if he walked into it, it was the proper thing to do.  

Without fear there is no courage, and courage is usually an excellent deterrent to bullies.  Especially when one little picked-on nerd starts to inspire a mob into resistance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, I have to say that as much as Joel may have walked into the lion&#8217;s den, I don&#8217;t know that it&#8217;s because he thought he might get away with something or was fool enough to think he might win even though he was &#8220;guilty.&#8221;  (I use the term in quotes because I do not care to re-affirm the notion of his actions as criminal even if he does not deny them.)  It would seem that the water runs hot and cold here at p2pnet: on one day talking smack about the &#8220;biyatches&#8221; and the next day criticising the various defendants for stepping in the bear-trap which was clearly flagged as such.  For all the flapjawing and &#8220;down with the corporate a-holes&#8221; bullshit, most of us are much more bark than bite.  I like to think that Joel just might have done this (even against all odds) for the decent reason that he thinks his behavior simply wasn&#8217;t criminal and he oughtn&#8217;t be prosecuted for it (or persecuted for that matter&#8230;Or extorted&#8230; Or  intimidated&#8230;)    Each of us should consider what path we would have chosen if we were the target instead of him and how much moxie it might take to resist the path of least resistance.   </p>
<p>Imagine how much of a fuster-cluck we might be in if there were no one willing to set an example of how to fight tyranny.  How is it that we have forgotten that LAW is made by PEOPLE and instead seem to be allowing LAW to subjugate the common good and common sense?  Law is not the judge of morality, only a set of agreed upon boundaries, and should have no power over what we decide it ought to have.   If the battle is going to be fought on legal ground then we must start standing on the field in order to fight, else lose by forfeit anyway.  Even if he walked into it, it was the proper thing to do.  </p>
<p>Without fear there is no courage, and courage is usually an excellent deterrent to bullies.  Especially when one little picked-on nerd starts to inspire a mob into resistance.</p>
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		<title>By: techloid</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/26160/comment-page-1#comment-980437</link>
		<dc:creator>techloid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 02:01:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=26160#comment-980437</guid>
		<description>@tinfoil

Senor tinfoil, we agree with what you&#039;ve said. However, as far we are concerned, the results are obviously unfortunate for Joel, but we feel (not as sensitive as a spider-sense kind of feeling), that he somehow walked right into this. He seems to have known the score and what he was doing, but sadly (for him), was caught.

From what little (we admit) we know of the case and the circumstances, we feel that this is not a matter of right and wrong, at least in the eyes of the law, which says that Joel was wrong, plain and simple. This is now appears to be a matter of wrong and right, fair and unfair in terms of what he did and the fine imposed.

Which leads us to conclude that this whole thing is nothing but one cluster-f*ck.

Cheers ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@tinfoil</p>
<p>Senor tinfoil, we agree with what you&#8217;ve said. However, as far we are concerned, the results are obviously unfortunate for Joel, but we feel (not as sensitive as a spider-sense kind of feeling), that he somehow walked right into this. He seems to have known the score and what he was doing, but sadly (for him), was caught.</p>
<p>From what little (we admit) we know of the case and the circumstances, we feel that this is not a matter of right and wrong, at least in the eyes of the law, which says that Joel was wrong, plain and simple. This is now appears to be a matter of wrong and right, fair and unfair in terms of what he did and the fine imposed.</p>
<p>Which leads us to conclude that this whole thing is nothing but one cluster-f*ck.</p>
<p>Cheers &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: surfer</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/26160/comment-page-1#comment-980435</link>
		<dc:creator>surfer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 01:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=26160#comment-980435</guid>
		<description>well said, the actual topics of argument have not been addressed...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well said, the actual topics of argument have not been addressed&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Devil's Advocate</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/26160/comment-page-1#comment-980431</link>
		<dc:creator>Devil's Advocate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 00:04:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=26160#comment-980431</guid>
		<description>@tinfoil...

I haven&#039;t got a problem with anything you&#039;ve said.
I feel exactly the same.

I&#039;ve been completely disappointed from Day 1 about the way Nesson&#039;s been treating this whole thing, and the people they&#039;ve chosen to give free legal services to.  The file sharing world needs a better representation than it&#039;s getting right now in the first so many court cases.

Yes!  I appreciate Nesson giving a few people free services.  And, No!  I don&#039;t think Jammie or Joel deserved anything near what they&#039;ve gotten so far.  But, this thing&#039;s far bigger and far more important than just the 3 of them - and I don&#039;t appreciate the charity being wasted on people who are guilty of knowingly pushing their luck too far in the first place.  And, I don&#039;t appreciate some old grandstander, who obviously doesn&#039;t fully understand what he&#039;s defending himself, coming into the picture and completely THROWING IT ALL AWAY FOR EVERYONE ELSE!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@tinfoil&#8230;</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t got a problem with anything you&#8217;ve said.<br />
I feel exactly the same.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been completely disappointed from Day 1 about the way Nesson&#8217;s been treating this whole thing, and the people they&#8217;ve chosen to give free legal services to.  The file sharing world needs a better representation than it&#8217;s getting right now in the first so many court cases.</p>
<p>Yes!  I appreciate Nesson giving a few people free services.  And, No!  I don&#8217;t think Jammie or Joel deserved anything near what they&#8217;ve gotten so far.  But, this thing&#8217;s far bigger and far more important than just the 3 of them &#8211; and I don&#8217;t appreciate the charity being wasted on people who are guilty of knowingly pushing their luck too far in the first place.  And, I don&#8217;t appreciate some old grandstander, who obviously doesn&#8217;t fully understand what he&#8217;s defending himself, coming into the picture and completely THROWING IT ALL AWAY FOR EVERYONE ELSE!</p>
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		<title>By: tinfoil</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/26160/comment-page-1#comment-980429</link>
		<dc:creator>tinfoil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 00:01:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=26160#comment-980429</guid>
		<description>Of course, you&#039;re correct Mr. Beckerman. The readers do want to know and you and Jon are both doing a bang-up job of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, you&#8217;re correct Mr. Beckerman. The readers do want to know and you and Jon are both doing a bang-up job of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray Beckerman</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/26160/comment-page-1#comment-980427</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Beckerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=26160#comment-980427</guid>
		<description>I agree that there&#039;s not much point in publicizing the case, since it was being handled in an oddball manner that overlooked the court rules and overlooked whatever limitations the substantive law offered. It&#039;s more important to focus on cases with innocent defendants and outstanding lawyering, such as Arista v. Does 1-16 and Lava v. Amurao, both of which are presently pending in the US Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit.

Thing is, readers want to be kept up to date on it.

On my own blog I made a suggestion several months back that I was thinking of discontinuing coverage of the case, because I couldn&#039;t bear to watch it and because the outcome would be meaningless. My readers voted 13-1 to urge me to continue coverage notwithstanding.

So, there you have it. Readers want to know about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that there&#8217;s not much point in publicizing the case, since it was being handled in an oddball manner that overlooked the court rules and overlooked whatever limitations the substantive law offered. It&#8217;s more important to focus on cases with innocent defendants and outstanding lawyering, such as Arista v. Does 1-16 and Lava v. Amurao, both of which are presently pending in the US Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit.</p>
<p>Thing is, readers want to be kept up to date on it.</p>
<p>On my own blog I made a suggestion several months back that I was thinking of discontinuing coverage of the case, because I couldn&#8217;t bear to watch it and because the outcome would be meaningless. My readers voted 13-1 to urge me to continue coverage notwithstanding.</p>
<p>So, there you have it. Readers want to know about it.</p>
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		<title>By: tinfoil</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/26160/comment-page-1#comment-980422</link>
		<dc:creator>tinfoil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=26160#comment-980422</guid>
		<description>Also, if Joel&#039;s lawyer thinks he deserves to be paid, he&#039;s almost as big a crook as the RIAA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, if Joel&#8217;s lawyer thinks he deserves to be paid, he&#8217;s almost as big a crook as the RIAA.</p>
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		<title>By: tinfoil</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/26160/comment-page-1#comment-980421</link>
		<dc:creator>tinfoil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.p2pnet.net/?p=26160#comment-980421</guid>
		<description>I know I&#039;m going to get blasted for this, and I&#039;m pretty certain Jon&#039;s going to start forwarding my email to /dev/null. Such is life.

I&#039;ll admit I&#039;ve not been able to follow the case too well, but here&#039;s what the summary as I see it.

Joel gets offered a settlement. Joel declines. It comes out later that Joel has been busted once before with a letter (from his ISP?) gently suggestion he C&amp;D all his file sharing activities.
Joel gets hooked up with a well known, if not somewhat .. quirky lawyer who decides that he can possibly beat the odds. This after Jamie gets hammered.
Judge tosses out the only remotely reasonable defense, fair use. I&#039;m not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but to me even that was a pretty big stretch. I sure hope he warmed up first and didn&#039;t pull anything.
Joel cops to file sharing and admits to lying about it previously.

He&#039;s not a martyr, he&#039;s a bloody fool. I don&#039;t see the point in publicizing this case other than to point out to other possible defendants that it&#039;s best to get a second, or third, opinion from other lawyers. At least Jamie had a fighting chance originally. The way to change the laws, in my opinion, is not through the courts - it&#039;s going to be changed through legislation.

Flame away, I&#039;m certain I&#039;ve said something worthy of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know I&#8217;m going to get blasted for this, and I&#8217;m pretty certain Jon&#8217;s going to start forwarding my email to /dev/null. Such is life.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll admit I&#8217;ve not been able to follow the case too well, but here&#8217;s what the summary as I see it.</p>
<p>Joel gets offered a settlement. Joel declines. It comes out later that Joel has been busted once before with a letter (from his ISP?) gently suggestion he C&amp;D all his file sharing activities.<br />
Joel gets hooked up with a well known, if not somewhat .. quirky lawyer who decides that he can possibly beat the odds. This after Jamie gets hammered.<br />
Judge tosses out the only remotely reasonable defense, fair use. I&#8217;m not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but to me even that was a pretty big stretch. I sure hope he warmed up first and didn&#8217;t pull anything.<br />
Joel cops to file sharing and admits to lying about it previously.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s not a martyr, he&#8217;s a bloody fool. I don&#8217;t see the point in publicizing this case other than to point out to other possible defendants that it&#8217;s best to get a second, or third, opinion from other lawyers. At least Jamie had a fighting chance originally. The way to change the laws, in my opinion, is not through the courts &#8211; it&#8217;s going to be changed through legislation.</p>
<p>Flame away, I&#8217;m certain I&#8217;ve said something worthy of it.</p>
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