If smokes are bad, what about booze?
p2pnet news view Freedom | P2P:- “No, Jon, smoking is not the ‘big deal’ here,” said a Reader’s Write in response to my comment post in Smoking trucker story – still smokin’.
I’d said, “That’s almost a side-issue. It’s mainly about big corporations still being allowed to sell highly addictive and, utlimately, lethal ‘product’.”
“Would that include alcohol too?” – wondered RW. “As I hear no one moaning and bitching about that … and it is so much worse!!”
Big difference, RW. Apples and oranges.
As a recovering addict and an ex-smoker, I’ve been there with both.
I know lots of people who drink and smoke dope — and even a small number who do other kinds of drugs — safely and without injuring their health.
But I don’t know of anyone who can smoke safely.
Alcohol at a party, or even a wake, or a few beers during the game, or in any of the other thousands of social occasions? No worries.
But there’s nothing good or beneficial about smoking.
It isn’t a filthy habit. It’s a filthy addiction. And it has absolutely nothing to recommend it.
Smokers’ breath stinks. So does their hair. So do their clothes. So do their houses and cars.
Their teeth turn brown and they have yellow nicotine stains on their fingers.
They cough a lot and their skin takes on a pasty look.
And that’s the good part.
After the smoking trucker story, I had several emails accusing me of being an ex-smoker who hates people who still light up.
‘I smoke because I want to so fuck you,’ said one.
Sure.
The only people who get anything out of smoking are the tobacco companies.
And they don’t sell to consumers.
They peddle to addicts who can’t help themselves.
And no one else is helping them either.
Jon Newton – p2pnet
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win ~ Mahatma Gandhi
October, 2009
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October 19th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
Quote: But there’s nothing good or beneficial about smoking.
What’s good or beneficial about booze?
October 19th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
Alcohol at a party, or even a wake, or a few beers during the game, or in any of the other thousands of social occasions? No worries.
What a comment…..it is the occasional drinker who is just as dangerous as the total drunk.
“Oh I only had 2 beers officer I didn’t mean to drive home and run down the kid on the bike”
They are not used to drinking….they don’t think it will affect them…it does….I know several….”non drinkers”.
One or 2 drinks and they are drunk and don’t even know it.
“Would that include alcohol too?” – wondered RW. “As I hear no one moaning and bitching about that … and it is so much worse!!”
Hey by the way thanks for quoting me.
And btw…have you ever smelled someones breathe who just sucked up a beer…or a shot of whiskey….whew….talk about a stink!
October 19th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
As a former cigarette smoker of over 20 yrs, now a pipe smoker of 5 years, my teeth aren’t brown,
my fingers aren’t yellowed from nicotine, I have no cough, and I am far from pasty.
Generalizations never benefit any debate.
October 19th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
Smoker zealots are idiots. Non-smoker zealots are idiots. People can drink oven cleaner and breath Zyclon B for all I care, so long as they keep it all away from me. You have your rights and I have mine. As long as neither tramples the other, it’s all good.
October 19th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
I am the wife of a smoker who tries and he tries and he tries but he just cannot quit. To Mr Dreddsnik everything in this story is true.
October 19th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
^^ It’s hard, hard. I’m really and truly sorry for you and your husband.
@ Dredd. Yes, I’m generalising. I’m sure there are lots of smokers whose fingers aren’t stained, whose teeth are pearly white, who have healthy complexions, whose breath doesn’t reek, and so on — especially if they haven’t been smoking for long. My apologies to everyone in these categories.
Meanwhile, there’s nothing good about tobacco addiction and I feel for the lady in the previous post.
Cheers!
October 19th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
” Big difference, RW. Apples and oranges. ”
Perhaps.
More people are killed by second hand drinking ( drunk driving ) than second hand smoke,
which has not one single proven case of death ( that can positively be tied to SHS ).
Thats really what all the BS is about.
SHS.
SHS has been the banner to eliminate someones choice to smoke ( I choose to, regardless
of what anyone else may flame me with ). Not for any scientific reason other than some
people don’t like the smell.
SHS findings have been shown to be false. No, i am not going to put a
bunch of links up, they are easily found, besides, the Anti smoking Zealots really
don’t care about facts.
They care about their right to not smell anything ‘bad’.
Even to the point of using junk science and ‘for the children’ rhetoric to
eliminate the thing they don’t like.
Sounds familiar doesn’t it ?
Either make it illegal ( since it’s so evil and bad ) or STFU.
Alcohol is far more damaging to the body, and we all know how well prohibition worked.
October 19th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
@ Dredd:
It’s all bad. But to me, alcohol is the lesser of the two very evil evils in the sense it’s been around forever and is an integral part of society. Tobacco, on the other hand, is relatively speaking new, and as I say in the post, the only thing it’s good for is making the obscenely rich tobacco companies obscenely richer.
I’m an ex-cigarette/pipe/cigar smoker. When I quit using drugs and alcohol, my system pretty much repaired itself.
My lungs never will.
And the spectre of cancer always looms.
Cheers!
October 19th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
” It’s all bad. But to me, alcohol is the lesser of the two very evil evils in the sense it’s been around forever and is an integral part of society. Tobacco, on the other hand, is relatively speaking new, ”
That’s a valid opinon and a valid choice .. for yourself.
As far as history goes, do a bit of research and you may find tobacco use
has a longer history than you may believe.
But thats not the point. The point is ..
That’s a valid choice to make .. for yourself.
Using any means necessary to enforce a choice on others isn’t right,
regardless of the target. A necessary side effect of a free society is that
those freedoms extend to those with habits or opinions that aren’t
popular, or considered ‘bad’ by some.
The use of lies and misinformation to enforce a choice on others will never be
right. See how well it is working for the RIAA ?
October 19th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
As someone who’s father died of cancer brought about be smoking, who lived with his father’s addiction affecting the family finances i can tell you that not only does smoking provide nothing beneficial, it can take an extremely heavy toll on the people around you. it is also very unhealthy for the people around you as well. you may think it is your choice, but when your choice is damaging the lives of others then it needs to be curtailed. i agree with this article completley and i really think those companies should be closed.
Yours Truly,
Adam
October 19th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
” As someone who’s father died of cancer brought about be smoking, ”
As someone who’s grandmother died of cancer, and never smoked a
day in her life, it’s rough yes.
” but when your choice is damaging the lives of others then it needs to be curtailed. ”
How so ?
Second hand smoke has never been a factor so what then ?
Financial difficulty always follows death, regardless of cause.
My choice to smoke affects you not at all.
Not one bit.
Make your choices.
Stay the fuck out of mine.
October 19th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
i was not talking about yours affecting me, only the people around you. and it wasn’t his death that caused financial trouble but the fact that buying smokes came before food, bills and everything else. he bought 2 packets a day or more at one stage. and you may not want to admit it but second hand smoke can be very dangerous to children and babies because their lungs are still developing. can be dangerous to people with respitory diseases (eg asthma) and can harm regular people to a much lesser degree. you need to face the reality that you do affect the lives of those around you. and you have a responsibilty to do the right thing that should come before feeding your addiction. although having seen numerous people going through that addiction i know it is not as easy as that.
October 19th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
I know you’re hunting like crazy for a snappy answer for me,
instead .. try to find some real PROOF instead of propoganda
lines.
I read the other posts and someone mentioned an absence of
any proven cases of SHS deaths, so I went looking.
I’m pretty good at researching, and I’m STILL LOOKING.
So far I have not found one single documented case of death
or cancer with SHS as conclusively the only possible factor.
I found the discredited SHS study.
I found the attempted WIPO coverup of evidence that shows
SHS studies to be junk.
I found a lot of things, but not one documented SHS death.
DUI deaths are and everyday event, sadly enough.
Try banning alcohol … again.
It is a proven second hand killer.
October 19th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
” and you may not want to admit it but second hand smoke can be very dangerous to children and babies because their lungs are still developing. ”
heh, no surprises here.
The ‘for the children card has been pulled from the deck.
You need to admit that there is not now, nor ever has been
any proof of what you speak.
You need to admit that you hate the smell, and wish to impose your
will on others, even if you need to ‘make shit up’.
Show me some proof.
not copy/paste propoganda.
October 19th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
@ Adam:
My mother — a life-long smoker — died of cancer as well. But it took a very long time and it was terrible for us both. The same, I’m sure, applies to millions of other mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters around the world.
Thanks, Big Tobacco.
Cheers!
October 19th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
As long as we’re being all ‘anecdotal’,
Both my parents were HEAVY smokers from the time I was
born, until I was about 15.
No health problems came my way.
According to your ‘anecdotal evidence’ theory, my very existence
demonstrates the fallacy of your conclusions.
It does not.
Anecdotal evidence is not evidence.
Real hard documented facts.
That’s evidence.
All SHS ‘evidence’ has been proven ( so far ) to be manufactured,
made to paid specifications of some lobby ( once again, a very
familiar tactic ).
October 19th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
http://ezinearticles.com/?Cigarette-Smoking-and-the-Effects-on-Children&id=464003
October 19th, 2009 at 8:09 pm
http://no-smoking.org/june99/06-01-99-5.html
October 19th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
http://kidshealth.org/teen/drug_alcohol/tobacco/smoking_asthma.html
October 19th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
all those links provide useful information and seem to back up what i said dred
October 19th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
” My mother — a life-long smoker — died of cancer as well. But it took a very long time and it was terrible for us both. The same, I’m sure, applies to millions of other mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters around the world. ”
Yes, it is terrible.
And would never be insensitive to the pain such a loss causes.
I’ve been through that too. A freind of my wife died slowly of
brain cancer ( also a lifetime non-smoker ). Sometimes it feels
good to blame someone. Somtimes no one is to blame.
Life and death happens as a matter of existence.
Choose for you, not for anyone else.
Until someone can provide a concrete link for SHS, we’ll have to
agree to disagree on SHS.
I won’t disagree on the PERSONAL risk of smoking to the smoker.
I will ALWAYS disagree on legislation born of falsehood, be it the
RIAA or the anti smoking lobby.
October 19th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
I’ve seen those.
All have been discredited.
October 19th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
You still haven’t shown me any conclusively documented SHS deaths.
Only discredited studies about increased risk.
Not one actual case.
October 19th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
SHS?
October 19th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
why don’t you show me where they have been discredited?
October 19th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
Second Hand Smoke.
The lie that the legislation is based on.
There is not a single conclusive case of death, or
any cases of cancer that has been conclusively attributed
to SHS. None.
October 19th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
You’re doing great so far … continue
October 19th, 2009 at 8:23 pm
so show me where it is discredited then, i know that having asthma myself SHS “does” trigger my asthma and that “can” kill me.
October 19th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
I could stay here all night playing ping pong on this, but it’s
pointless.
Anti smoking zealots are like cultists, you won’t accept any
documentation that goes against what you want, and that is
to control the choices of others.
God himself could walk right up to you and tell you you’re
wrong, but you won’t accept that if it allows someone to do
something that you don’t like.
That’s why these SHS debates are pointless.
All the proof is easily found, but you won’t like it
therefore it’s not real.
When they come for you, will there be anyone to defend you ?
October 19th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
” know that having asthma myself SHS “does” trigger my asthma and that “can” kill me. ”
Sure. I have a kid with asthma.
Too much time in a flower shop can trigger it.
We better close all those up.
Strong cologne can trigger it
Better ban those.
Too much smog from vehicle exhaust can trigger it.
Better ban cars.
A great many things can and have triggered fatal asthma attacks.
We therefore need to ban any and all things that may trigger
an asthma attack .. right ?
October 19th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
lol, i have a friend just like you. addicted smokers are the same. ditto for information. mine is discredited and yours is too much for me to handle apparently, lol. i guess we will leave it at that
October 19th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
” lol, i have a friend just like you. addicted smokers are the same. ditto for information. mine is discredited and yours is too much for me to handle apparently, lol. i guess we will leave it at that ”
Yup,
I know more than a few like you as well.
You can’t stand seeing people do something you don’t
like ( pew smell baaad ) and are willing to go along with
anything, real or imagined, to force people to adhere to
you’re view of a healthy lifestyle. The same arguments
have been used against people who are varying types of
‘different’ throughout history.
The science you rely on has been shown as ‘junk’ and you can’t
handle it, so we’ll leave it at that.
October 19th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
heh,
the RIAA are GREAT examples on the use of junk science, fake
’statistics’ and propoganda to force people into compliance.
nice.
October 19th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
” addicted smokers are the same. ”
LOL
Replace ‘addicted smokers’ with ‘Thieving downloaders’ and you see,
you know the program well.
October 19th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
Penn and Teller may not be the best form of proof. Do the research afterward and you’ll realize they are pretty truthful. But watch their episode of Bullshit on Second hand smoke. Almost every single bit of evidence against SHS comes from something like 2 sources. Both of which are either extremely questionable in their integrity or have been grossly miss-quoted to suit the anti-smokers.
I hate SHS. I cant stand it. But I also don’t think anyone has the right to tell others how to live their lives.
October 19th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
” Penn and Teller may not be the best form of proof. ”
true
” Do the research afterward and you’ll realize they are pretty truthful. ”
Also true.
” Almost every single bit of evidence against SHS comes from something like 2 sources. Both of which are either extremely questionable in their integrity or have been grossly miss-quoted to suit the anti-smokers. ”
Absolutely true.
” I hate SHS. I cant stand it. But I also don’t think anyone has the right to tell others how to live their lives. ”
That’s real honesty.
My wife smokes cigarettes.
I switched to a pipe 6 years ago.
Her cigs smell like ass to me now, I never noticed it
at the time, but the difference in smell from pipe tobacco
to cig tobacco is as dramatic is cigs to cigars.
If honesty were to rule the day, the real reason for this is
people don’t like the smell. I can’t disagree.
But a bad smell should never trump individual rights.
Taking away the right of a business owner to choose
whether or not to allow smoking in their establishment is
absolute bullshit. It’s even worse that fake ‘evidence’ is used
to take this right away from them.
October 19th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Let me guess; Dreddsnik is NOT a parent, right? If you are, then I have to wonder…
Since you’re a smoker by choice and don’t believe anything anyone says about second hand smoke, I’m betting you wouldn’t at all mind smoking around your baby or blowing smoke rings in their tiny little face every chance you get. After all, it’s not doing any harm, right? Plus it’s so funny to watch them make screwed up faces and cough in that cute little high pitched way.
Like I said in another comment elsewhere, my dad has been addicted all of his life and his father, whom was also a heavy smoker, died from lung cancer just a few years ago. Growing up around my dad was NOT fun in the slightest. I had asthma up until a few years after moving out on my own and am more prone to lung problems like bronchitis and pneumonia (hardly any of the penicillin type medications work for me anymore). My mom has had smokers cough for years even though she has never smoked a single cigarette in her entire life. There are always ash trays full of butts everywhere and the ceiling of their house is yellowed from tar and who knows what other chemicals. He’s tried to quit many times, primarily for financial reasons, but always fails. My mother is actually doing a bit better now that she no longer allows him to light up inside the house. I guarantee you that when my dad’s time is up, it WILL be because of lung cancer just like his father.
There is simply no getting around the fact that smoking is a disease much like alcoholism is. I feel sorry for all the people out there like yourself who cannot admit they have a problem, always finding ways to rationalize their behavior, always proclaiming it’s not harming anyone, always failing to see the bigger picture. Sadly that is very typical behavior for one who is addicted to ANY substance, as I’m sure Jon will attest to. I’m pro-freedom so go ahead and keep on smoking. Just don’t expect any of your crazy rationalizations to work on me because I already know better and make sure you don’t light up around me, otherwise there will be trouble.
October 19th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
To the smokers.
I am fine so long as I don’t have to breathe it/smell it. How would you like it if I carried around a vile of nasty smelly perfume (skunk flavoured say) and sprayed in in your face every time you smoked? Would that be fair?
October 19th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
Your right to breath dirty air does not trump my right to breath clean air. If you think it does, I then dare you to blow smoke at someone suffering from some form of breathing difficulty, such as asthma (which in severe cases can kill), in a public place.
October 19th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
See,
It’s like a cut and paste parade
All the anecdotes and NO EVIDENCE.
” I am fine so long as I don’t have to breathe it/smell it. How would you like it if I carried around a vile of nasty smelly perfume ”
Happens all the time.
since it’s not harmful, just annoying, there’s nothing to be done about it.
Like SHS. It’s smelly but not harmful. Nothing can make a lie true, not even
law.
” Your right to breath dirty air does not trump my right to breath clean air. ”
We need to get rid of cars, trucks, buses, factories, farms etc .. since the
contaminates from those sources far outweigh the contaminates of a
puff of pew.
” Let me guess; Dreddsnik is NOT a parent, right? If you are, then I have to wonder… ”
Parent of 2.
” I’m betting you wouldn’t at all mind smoking around your baby or blowing smoke rings in their tiny little face every chance you get. ”
right, cuz that’s exactly the same as what we are discussing
If your dad did that to you no wonder you have a problem.
Seek professional help.
Imposing your views by force on others will not heal your pain, no
matter how bad you want it to.
” There is simply no getting around the fact that smoking is a disease much like alcoholism is. ”
Not trying to, that’s not the isse at hand.
The issue is the falsehood of SHS.
” I feel sorry for all the people out there like yourself who cannot admit they have a problem, ”
Self pity is a pole of cowardice. As I said,seek professional help.
” always finding ways to rationalize their behavior, ”
Yes that’s where you and religious fundamentalist ARE very similar.
Rationalizing using force of law to make others confirm to viewpoints
they can’t prove by any means other than picking and choosing
what they need from a ‘magic’ book, or in this case, fake science.
” Just don’t expect any of your crazy rationalizations to work on me because I already know better and make sure you don’t light up around me, otherwise there will be trouble.”
I don’t expect anything rational to convince you, trust me
.
Please let me know when I am about to light up near you.
I love trouble
Please, punch and kick me all you want, I guarantee I won’t do
anything to stop you. I know full well that when fact and reason
don’t convince your ‘kind’ that you will resort to violence.
That’s what zealots do. When reason fails them, they go to name
calling, when that fails, they use violence.
Please, be as violent with me as you wish
That’s what lawyers are for
October 19th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
” I then dare you to blow smoke at someone suffering from some form of breathing difficulty, such as asthma (which in severe cases can kill), in a public place. ”
Like perfume can, right ?
October 19th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
Sorry, Jon …
Yes, I know .. i’m just trolling now.
It’s hard to resist, since they use the exact same
methodology as RIAA lawyers it’s kind of like
‘practice’ … i’ll stop now .
October 19th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
” ” I then dare you to blow smoke at someone suffering from some form of breathing difficulty, such as asthma (which in severe cases can kill), in a public place. ”
I dare you to find one documented example where this has happened, and
SHS was proven to be the only possible factor involved … I double dog
dare ya …
October 19th, 2009 at 11:23 pm
I used to suffer from SHS, as did virtually everyone in the workplace before 1995.
I never complained, though. In fact, I was encouraging them to keep at it!
I was surprised that though the threat level to smoker’s rights was RED, the smokers weren’t putting up a fight. They were all just going along with everyone else who was saying it was evil and bad, not fighting for their workplace smoking rights which were then taken away.
Then everyone had to smoke outside, and I stopped suffering from most SHS; but now we all suffer from the whims of control freaks.
October 20th, 2009 at 3:39 am
I feel I have to weigh in on this discussion since the two subjects that have been brought up are striking quite close to home for me.
I have been subjected to SHS and SHA. My mother (who is still alive) still smokes to this day, my father (the alcoholic) is not here anymore.
As such I feel I have an opinion to tell everyone what it was like growing up in a household with a smoker and a drunk.
My mother has been smoking about all her life, she started at 16 I think and just turned 63 a little while ago. She quit smoking while she was
pregnant with my brother but continued to smoke when pregnant with me. I haven’t seen any side effects in my growth, build or noticed any
other differences compared to other people of my age. i’m not saying there aren’t, I’m merely poiting out that if such things exist I have not
suffered from any of them.
My father started drinking back in 92 when we had quite a big depression here. He lost his job and was way too proud to go out and find a new
job. He felt that at age 51 he was too old and no one would hire an old timer like him, besides he got more money if he stayed unemployed
than if he went out and found a new job. The only problem was that now he had nothing to do except sit at home and mope about the fact that
he had nothing to do and that he had gotten fired from a manager position at a big firm.
I remeber from my childhood that my parents were at each others throats, fighting about the same subject that is argued about here today.
Smoking vs. alcohol – and pretty much the same arguments have been thrown out and about at those fights as well.
We can all agree that smoking is not healthy, we can all agree that drinking is not healthy. But I can smoke a pack of cigarettes and still be
able to drive a car around without killing anyone, not so with alcohol. Sure smokers suffer from various illnesses more so than other people,
but they are AN ELEVATED RISK group. Not every smoker will die from lung cancer or such. There are a lot of things that cause a lot of illnesses,
all of which are not yet known. Smoking has been made out to be a huge demon
I used to smoke. I quit while I was ill with a stomach flu, I lived in the bathroom for a week, lost 10% of my body weight and just didn’t want to
go out for a smoke at that time. So I hadn’t been smoking for a week and figure what the hell, I’ll just see if I have the resolve to quit while I’m
at it. But if I haden’t gotten sick I would propably still be smoking.
I have never done anything stupid under the effects of nicotine. Sure I have smoked some more but I have never done some outrageous,
really dumb stuff while smoking. Being smashed out of my head, sure. Done lot’s of stupid things while being drunk. Yet somehow people
see smoking as the more dangerous and harmful of the 2. I have never seen anyone get angry or jealous after smoking a cigarette, seen
plenty of people pick fights after a couple of beers.
There is still an aspect to this story that speaks in favor of smoking against alcohol. I mentioned my father earlier and as I told he was an
alcoholic, deniability and all. A few years ago he decided to get drunk off his ass and while he was drunk propably hit upon a reason
(yet again) why his life was so bad and nobody liked him, a typical drinkers depression. So he took a gun to his head and pulled the trigger.
His blood alcohol level at the autopsy was recorded at 0.29 measured from his eye. I belive he would never have done it sober. Or if he
was smoking.
I’m not saying smoking is good but I’m saying it has far less severe consequnces on the people around you than drinking has. I didn’t
bring home any friends from school from grade 6 onward because I never knew in which condition my father would be when I opened
the fron door and I didn’t want to risk it. Never had the same problem with my mothers smoking. Sure she might smell bad but so do
sewer workers or people who have way too much perfume. Her breath might smell but so will anyones who drinks coffee.
Do both, do niether, do one hate the other. There is no 100% right way. Live in peace with those closest to you and try to respect others
and we should en up fine.
Just my 2 cents.
October 20th, 2009 at 4:11 am
Dreddsnik sounds like the kind of guy who can’t be happy unless everyone around him is miserable. It makes me feel sorry for his family. Honestly, I don’t get smoker zealots like him. How hard is it to understand that, despite being a non-smoker, I don’t care if he smokes all day long? Go nuts and stuff your face with tobacco products 24/7. All I ask is that while enjoying your freedom you do not infringe on mine. How do you expect people to respect your freedoms if you refuse to afford them the same courtesy? Sheesh.
October 20th, 2009 at 4:23 am
I once had a woman sit next to me. She was wearing way too much perfume. I guess that was her right seeing as we live in a free country and all. Was it also her right to make me vomit? Because I did. Totally ruined my day which had been going good up until that point. When I think back I find myself hoping the splash ruined her shoes. True story! Every time I smell something remotely close to that perfume, no matter how weak, I get ill lol.
October 20th, 2009 at 6:22 am
Here’s an Idea if someone is smoking and you don’t like it step away from them. This idea of blaming everything on the tobacco companies is so stupid.They sell a product if it’s bad for you don’t smoke,it’s called self responsibility use it.
October 20th, 2009 at 8:22 am
@ Dredd:”i’m just trolling now.”
You are.
“It’s hard to resist, since they use the exact same methodology as RIAA lawyers …”
I’ve made the same comparison at least four or five times, for example http://www.p2pnet.net/story/1153 back in 2004.
I empathise with Dude from Finland and I’m the last one to trivialise alcohol. However, side-by-side, IMO, smoking has nothing at all going for it whereas alcohol is part of societies around the world and has been so ever since the first cavemen ate fermented apples off the ground.
Cheers!
October 20th, 2009 at 9:16 am
Peace pipe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_pipe
Still I know it’s hazardous and bad for you but at least here they are starting to go to ridiculous lengths to stop smokers from smoking. I.E. all
cigarette boxes have to be totally white and so forth.
As for the lesser of 2 evils… sorry but smoking is less evil in my book.
October 20th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
I feel sorry for smokers.
The government won’t ban them because of the revenue (they ban unpasturized milk for health reasons, but cigs are still OK) and because they die young (before collecting too much pension).
October 20th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
Something i found out recently.
My aunt was diagnosed with lung cancer in one lung. she has since had that lung removed, and is cancer free so far.
she is also a smoker, BUT her cancer wasnt caused by smoking. If she had died from the lung cancer, she would have been added to stats of people who smoked and died of lung cancer. but like i said, her lung cancer wasnt caused by smoking.
that is one of the ways that the stats are pumped up to increase numbers of smoking/cancer deaths.
Where did she get this info? Canadian Cancer Society
October 20th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
@eXtstenZ: Exactly right. When fat people die, the medical quacks (i.e. the ones in charge of medical organizations) state the fatness was the cause of death even when it wasn’t. They don’t even bother double-checking with an autopsy or anything– they’re just too disgusted at the sight of fat.
Same thing with smokers and lung cancer.
October 21st, 2009 at 3:09 am
What this all comes down to, is who’s rights should be upheld.
I’m tolerant of both (living in Japan, you really need to be) , and yet I can attest that both drinking and smoking can cause injury to other people, if not death.
Alcohol has been a prime part of the human culture since the very beginning, and in many countries, alcoholic beverages are the only “safe” think to drink in those areas. Even now, alcoholic beverages can be the only “safe” drink in areas without bottled water or sodas. Many cultures (like the Chinese) consider refusal of an offer of alcohol from the family elder, an insult worse than slapping the person’s face.
As for smoking, as many know, smoking can about as a method for the village elders to “talk with the gods”, and in some cultures it is considered “rude” to not accept a smoke from a town elder.
Yet at the same time, both smoking and alcohol have destroyed entire cultures.
Injuries related to alcohol really do not need any example, as to the many people who die in DUI related accidents, as well as the common drunken brawl.
And as for Smokers, I know several people were were “accidentally” burned by a careless smoker, a bookstore that burned to the ground by someone who discarded a lit butt in front of the store (Japanese book stores often have magazines out in front of the shop).
I’ve had to physically stop a smoker, who insisted on holding his lit cigarate at his side- right at my daughter’s eye level (and in a non-smoking area at that). Is it my daughter’s fault that she is standing near a person who can’t follow the simplest of laws?
Sure, at the moment both are legal, and as long as they are smoker and drinkers have the legal right to smoke themselves to an early grave, and alcoholics have the right to drink themselves to oblivion. But as long as they are going to be part of a society, it must be dome with moderation.
On the same token, people around them deserve the right to not be subjected to it, and the right to defend themselves from people without the ability to control themselves.
An old 80 year old person with unsightly disfigurations “may” have the right to parade in the nude, for everyone to see, but that doesn’t mean that everyone must be forced to look at them.
Just my two cents