Men in skirts
p2pnet news view | Off Topic:- “It`s hard enough to get kids to concentrate on an algorithm – even without Jimmy sitting there in lipstick and fake eyelashes.”
The quote is from a New York Times article slugged Can a Boy Wear a Skirt to School? and it comes in a Jenna McWilliams blog post sleeping alone and starting out early.
Way back, during the summer in Toronto, I used to wear a green sarong because it was cool and comfortable. It took me a while to get the knot right, but these days they use velcro. And here on Vancouver Island, you often see men wearing kilts – not the Scottish or Irish variety, but non-national pleated skirts made from broadcloth.
“Since I grew up in the Midwest, I thought I was prepared for the transition back to ‘Midwestern values’ when I moved from Massachusetts to Indiana for graduate school a few months ago,” Jennna told p2pnet.
“I couldn’t have been more wrong. Culture shock got me thinking about identity, gender, and societal norms, which got me thinking about how I got so sure that everything I learned about gender performance was wrong.”
In, ’sleeping alone and starting out early’, “Because it helped to shape my earliest understanding of gender and rebellions, I remember with great clarity the day my high school classmate Justin C. wore a skirt to school,” she says, going on »»»
Actually, I never saw the skirt; I only heard about it from my friends (my high school, after all, had thousands of students spread over three buildings). I don’t know if Justin was sent home to change. I can’t remember if he got in trouble–this was what I now think of as the freewheeling early ’90s, a relative utopia compared to the post-Columbine, post-family values, post-culture wars high school of the ‘new’ century. It’s entirely possible Justin pulled the whole thing off without a suspension.
I couldn’t believe it. I couldn’t believe that somebody would wear such an obviously off-limits item of clothing. Then, suddenly, because someone had simply crossed what I thought was an inviolable border, I could believe it. And a boy wearing a skirt no longer seemed quite so off-limits.
Fifteen years later, opposition to sex-based dress codes has hit the big time with today’s New York Times article, “Can a boy wear a skirt to school?” By all rights, of course, the answer to that question should be of course. But there are real, significant reasons to approach this issue more thoughtfully, to answer that question with a resounding of course…except that….
The challenge of this issue goes far beyond the lame, I-don’t-understand-it-and-therefore-it’s-just-not-right stance embodied in the NYTimes article by Kay Hymowitz, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, who argues that “It`s hard enough to get kids to concentrate on an algorithm — even without Jimmy sitting there in lipstick and fake eyelashes.” As the article explains, dress codes are as much about maintaining order as they are about keeping students safe. The most extreme recent illustration of this is the shooting death in February 2008 of Lawrence King, a middle school student who sometimes wore heels and makeup to school.
But harassment doesn’t have to erupt into violence to be devastating to the victim and the community, and the everyday cruelty of a school environment that enables difference-phobic attitudes contributes mightily to deeper personal and cultural attitudes toward gender. My classmate Justin was smart, confident, and mature, and I’m sure he was strong enough to reject any hateful reactions to his decision to wear the skirt. Another student may not have been. Any school dress-code policy must take this into account.
The problem, though, is that school policies, and by extension cultural attitudes, toward clothing choices tend to skip over the difference between sex, sexuality, and gender. In case you need a refresher, sex is biological and tied to genetic makeup, hormones, and sex-based traits. Sexuality is socio-biological, meaning that it’s a product of the interaction between biology and culture: It’s who you’re attracted to, and when, and why.
Gender, which is really what we’re talking about when we’re talking about clothing, is a social construct that’s linked to but different from sex and sexuality. Not all boys who wear skirts are gay, and not all girls who wear skirts are straight. Gender is about identity performance, is about presenting yourself to the world in a way that feels right given your sex, sexuality, and general perception of yourself in the world. Gender performance is always a dance between the individual and her culture, and it’s never fully clear who’s leading whom.
I first learned about the gender dance when Justin wore a skirt to school. Before that day, and for much of the time that has passed since, my approach to gender performance was more mechanical than intentional, more reflexive than reactionary. It’s good for all of us to be reminded from time to time that we’re all up on stage and that we have some say in the lines we read, the props we use, and the costumes we present ourselves in. When Justin wears a skirt to school, he gives us exactly this reminder.
What the world needs now, sings Cracker, is a new kind of tension / cause the old one just bores me to death.
Rigid dress codes of the sort identified in the New York Times piece make school flow more seamlessly, sure, but they do it at the expense of the kind of critical thinking that schools purport to value. Every time Justin wears a skirt to school, he lowers the risk, just a tiny bit, of another Lawrence King incident. He cracks open a window, props open a door, and invites us all to take a look at what’s outside.
“We all have to decide for ourselves whether to accept the invitation, but when schools, out of fear of or for their students, keep the doors and windows locked they not only fail their students but help to foster an environment where fear and hate can continue to rule the day,” Jenna adds.
JN
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win ~ Mahatma Gandhi
sleeping alone and starting out early – boys can wear skirts, girls can wear tuxes: let’s rethink school dress codes, November 8, 2009
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November 9th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
If a guy wants to wear a skirt, fine.
But, if he’s gonna sit in the cafeteria with me, I’d thank him not to be “going commando”.
8(
November 9th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
although this isnt p2p related this article is full of brilliance. Of course, the idealogy of gender and the relation to clothingly is seemingly to me..a generational type of thing. People in the age of 20s are now starting to accept men who wear feminine clothing. Its still a long shot due to the suposed unnaturality behind it, but someday that wall will be torn down. Hate crimes like what happened to lawrence will be no more. I blame the education system when at a early age they are teaching kids morals but clearly do not say anything about how people express themselves
damned good article!
November 9th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
@ zammy:
“although this isnt p2p related …”
Thanks. I’d forgotten switch over to Off Topic. Fixed.
Cheers!
November 9th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
It would be great NOT tomix gender and sex. Gender is just a specific role to play in the life of the people, the sex tells you if you see a male or female.
Dresscodes are made up and have an open field. Otherwise it would be discrimination. But there is nother point of view. Girls usually can wear what they want, boy’s can’t. Double standards, but we call that equality.
It is all in the education, but even a lot of teachers can’t understand that what does it mean to young adults to be pressed into a gender-role they don’t like.
Health issues: What’s about health when boys wearing skirts for instance? Well known that the ‘private’ area of male has to stay cool, 1 degree under the temperature of the body – how can a male do that when wearing pants? If male’s don’t do that, possible prostate and testicle cancer in later age send greetings.
That’s the truth…… but who cares? Just have a dress code, and so please see above.
November 10th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
I remember my sister in the early ’70’s getting detention for wearing pants to school, all girls had to wear dresses or skirts! My, how times have changed…sometimes not for the better!
December 28th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Men wore skirts and dresses (tunics, togas, kilts,sarongs, robes and many more) for thousands years. Still wear such garments in many cultures. There’s nothing wrong with a guy in a skirt, skirt is comfortable and healthy (Mara, male’s private area must be kept in temperature 2 to 4 Celsius lower than rest of the body, it’s impossible in trousers). Also skirts for men isn’t a gender problem, skirts are masculine! Women in European culture wear these since 1850, there was no women in skirts before (in opposition, first trousers were worn by women in Ancient Greece).
And at last but not least, main problem is there’s a lack of informations about skirts for men, people don’t know why men should wear skirts.
January 5th, 2010 at 11:07 am
The wearing of skirts by men has gone on for decades. The truth of the matter is that skirts are or were originally designed for men and boys, not women. Most women were fully clothed in either a dress like garment or a robe styled garment. When transportation means changed (horses, camels, etc), men changed over to wearing pants even though some still wore their skirts. The problem today is where can you buy a man’s skirt — NO WHERE –. Skirts are only made available in the womens or girls sections of all the department stores. I know this is where I buy mine or on the internet. I don’t buy the frilly type, only the style that are A-line, pleated, solid colors (earth tones) or plaid (similar to a kilt). I also own 2 kilts. If stores like Walmart, Kmart, Sears, etc, were to start selling skirts for men I would probably buy them. Even a skirt with cargo pockets would be okay.
I have gone shopping in MY SKIRTS and have NOT received any flack from anyone in the stores or while walking to them. As a matter of fact some women have given me positive remarks, mostly for the style. I find skirts a lot more comfortable in the warmer months here in northern Ohio. I also read that pants, especially during hot months cause the male sperm rate to drop because of the heat being retained by the type of pants worn. Jeans are the worst followed by poplin.
So guys if you want to remain virile try donning a skirt and enjoy the comfort. Oh, one other thing, I have noticed is that I have not had the itch that occurs (most guys know what this is), not have I developed any rashes.
January 31st, 2010 at 9:52 pm
In a blog of hot hubs (H. Alexander) I found a long article about why men like to wear skirts and dresses.
“If one looks at historical clothing and if one spares a moment for thoughts of male finery, is it any wonder that many men find themselves drawn to the women’s section of the department store? Is it any wonder that men want to share in the dash and grace and colorfulness that typifies women’s fashion? Is it any wonder that men seeking equality in dressing choices which they gave to women?
I think not. If women were required to dress in anywhere as narrow a clothing range as men, there would be outright rebellion on the streets, complete with claims of oppression. Why? Because we allow modern women the right to self expression through clothing to the extreme, but it is not a freedom we have allowed the male gender. Our societies have pressed men into a dressing cage, in an uniformed tiny space which make all men literally stereotype. Why? Well, perhaps that is something worth exploring”.
So far so good, but it does say that we are in a way of change, a progressive way which needs more understanding. And all of that is just the beginning, and I want to be a part of this new movement of creativity, innovation and, yes, progressivism of today.
February 1st, 2010 at 9:20 am
I agree with what MARA stated, since men have transfered over to wearing pants the incidents of testiclar and prostrate cancer has risen. It should also be noted the erectile dysfunction and lower sperm rates have been associated with wearing pants by a university in Scotland by a study conducted there. The study was to determine the reasons behind the lowering of the birth-rate. The study also showed like strikemaster said is that over heating the genital areas by 2 degrees celcius is sufficient to cause sterility in males. I also agree with Herby that men are put into a box, when it comes to fashion. The box is then sealed and those who escape its confines are ostracized in various forms. These forms vary from being shunned to name calling such as sissy, wimp etc. These men are also usually classified as homosexual even though most gays dress as most males do (pants & shirts). Less then 10% of gays wear dresses or skirts.
I also agree that there needs to be an educational program started. Men and boys need to learn the history of skirts, and the physical and medical reasons for wearing them. Since it would take time, this should start at an early age with boys, prior to puberty at or around the age of 9 or 10.
We teach our sons the dangers of sexually transmitted diseases prior to puberty. We also teach them about wearing cups or jockey shorts to protect themselves during sports. It is therefore reasonable that we teach them about wearing skirts and how to wear them properly. I am not advocating putting our sons in dresses and have them prancing about or playing hop-scotch, but obtaining a reasonable end of trouser tyranny.
Another thing that needs to be done is to demand that stores like Kmart, Walmart, Sears, or even J.C.Penney carry skirts and or skorts for men and boys in the respective departments. The claim that they would not sell doesn’t hold water. Look on You Tube, Flickr, or Photobucket, there are thousands of men/boys dressed in skirts. They are not hiding in a closet or locked up in their bedrooms. Quite a few are out and about in public, walking with their friends, talking and laughing and enjoying themselves as usual. The real problem here is men/boys have been so oriented to suppress these wants or desires that they don’t have the NERVE (for lack of a better term) to stand up against the oppression.
February 6th, 2010 at 5:22 pm
Robert, as you said, some people don’t have the “Nerve” to stand against the oppression – I think that most people could solve this problem in the term “I don’t care what others are thinking”. Only when somebody is too self orientd will have the problem to stand against these oppressions.
I remember the first time a went skirted to my working place…. I did not know what other people might say to me, and I studyed hundreds oft excuse, explanations….. but first time nobody asked me. Some weeks later a man asked me why I am wearing a skirt, and I said only, “I like it”. It is interesting to see how people like to react on this 3 words because there is no base for another comment or a possible discussion included.
I like it: What else could be in a higher position? I never thought about that before: I like it. Period. And it work very well.
February 7th, 2010 at 6:57 am
HERBY, There is one other fear, although it is commonly referred to as homophobia it is in reality TRANSPHOBIA. It is the fear of being labeled as Transgendered or a Trans-sexual, possibly being Intersext. I have read a number of articles and blogs here on the web and have found that this fear is real. This is why some who wear skirts NEVER leave their homes, it is why some men make up some of the ridiculous excuses or play some sort of charade to cover themselves. It is the primary thing of being LABELED, that the fear begins to become imbedded into one’s psyche. People do allow themselves to be labeled throughout their lives. They should step back and disallow it like I did. I’ve told people Not to place labels upon me, because I am who I am, a human being first with some faults like everybody else. If you want to use Labels then open a canning factory, but humans are not for labeling.
February 17th, 2010 at 9:45 pm
@Robert, I know what you mean. I have read also some articles about the labeling, but I didn’t ave this problem so far. I believe that men still never go out in skirts, but there is nothing to do or to help. I never told people not to label me, because nobody tried it anyway.
But most people are being labeled: They are the crowd, nobody around which want to express themselves. But that all is a question about education, from the first, the parents, until to college/university. I am teaching critical thinking…… in skirts, and my students never questioned this issue,
February 24th, 2010 at 9:39 pm
I don’t have any problems with wearing skirts, and never labeld me. The only thing is one of my classes, when I came in they cried “Huhhhuhh”….. because I wore pants at this day.
May 14th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Herby; I case of labeling….. I did not get labeled in the original way, I only know that students call me “cool”. I don’t want to be cool nor “hot”, I just want to be myself, and express my own personality. And I do it whenever I like because I do not see any restriction. all restrictions are just in the head of some people, and that’s okay as long it is not on me.
June 18th, 2010 at 11:28 am
Robert; You have not to fear any label if you confident wearing your skirt. Have always a little smile and you’ll see the success.
September 12th, 2010 at 10:42 pm
I already see the smile and very friendly reactions when I am in my skirts, panthose and all very manly styled. Especially women like that. I just can encourage all men to do like me.
September 16th, 2010 at 10:29 pm
Of course I would smile, too seeing a guy in a skirt. That would be a manly man in my eyes, showing that he has the courage to go a new way of dressing out of the boring style. And he shows up with that he has his brain to think why he’s dressing differently.
September 29th, 2010 at 9:39 pm
Thank you, bess. I am already a skirted garment wearer, I just love the comfortable kind of dressing. I have to wear support hose, pretty heavy, and I can’t it wear under pants because it would make the issue worse. So what? Skirts helped me.
I can’t understand that some people, even some blogs at some internet pages talking about “girly” fashion for men…… just very narrow minded, No innovation, creativity and basic education because men always wore skirted garments, and more than 50% of all men on earth still do.
October 2nd, 2010 at 3:19 pm
Martinus, I understand and I know how does it feel having support stockings-/hose under pants. It is a modern way of totally torture. Skirts are just very comfortable, and I think no men have to explain why he’s wearing skirted garment. It is his own way to express his own unique personality, not going with the stereotype crowd.
October 12th, 2010 at 9:19 pm
What are you talking about? Skirts for men? Yes of course, skirts looking very masculine on men. All what you try to find as a reason not to wear different clothes are nothing else than fears you make up in your head. Sometimes people might be surprised seeing a men in skirts, but that”s absolute normal.
Again, there are no fears except you make it up and watching people which could think like you thought.
October 24th, 2010 at 10:51 pm
A new fashion craze….they put men in PANTS! Are they completely out of mind? What’s about their lower body, pants must hurt them, they must feel uncomfortable, they must get aggressive and brutal. And how does it look like? Watch from the back, you’ll see nothing which fits, fill out the pants, and all pants looking similar, unform. Isn’t it boring?
And men must wear it – are those real men? Can they stand up for that what would be the best for their comfort, their health – just let them stay in their skirted garments. That makes a men, standing up against discriminating rules and restrictions against hmanity!
What do you think about this – seeing it from a different point of view?
October 26th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
A different point of view with the same result at the end because nobody would really listen to that. It is already well known since 1970’s that that pants are a totally wrong garment for men but as you can see, nobody cares really. Don’t talk about real men, the role of men has changed but, again who really cares? Most people can’t get out of their sphere, and even raising interest skirts for men does not mean people learning from the past.
I am glad that I could get out of this pants-cage, and I love my skirts and kilts.
November 27th, 2010 at 11:45 pm
Martinus, that speaks for you. I honor men like you when knowing exactly what they want. I don’t care what they wear if they look proper.
December 20th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
Thinking deeper on that issue I think men should have same possibilities to wear they want. We should not argue or discuss with double standards because we all know that women wear ALL kind of men’s wear every day, underwear included. So what is the deal? Just to think about masculinity when men wearing skirts? For some people their intellectual blinds running down when questioning that, but what does clothes has to do with sexuality?
Nothing, wand we all know very well that we are sexualizing a lot of things and also thinking like that. We should go the way to accept same rights for all, that includes dressing. Almost all type of clothes are unisex, only the user makes the difference with their different taste.
January 1st, 2011 at 11:09 pm
Men in skirts…… Or skirted garments if you prefer. Yes! Reason to say that? Because it makes sense for the male body, looks good and feels comfortable. So, why to wait?
Happy 2011 – skirted of course.
January 19th, 2011 at 6:27 pm
Fact’s are that I wear skirts everyday in aney type of weather….. The fact that Men have forgotten that skirts are better for them is a sad fact !!! People forget that pants are better suited for rideing horse’s !!! if you drive a car or work in an office skirts offer freedom of movement. ( no reajusting your self ) men know the hassle of having a inseem cutting into your Jewls or tool….
For thoes that say men in skirts are ( sissys. fag ) is not to smart because if you dont know the sexaul leaning of that person then keep your knuckle dragging Neanderthall but in your cave and go the way of the DINASOUR !!!!!
January 23rd, 2011 at 11:20 pm
Correct, men should wear skirted garments. A very logically solution. But one question is unsolved, how to make it public and understandable for all people. Most people are still educated that skirts are worn only in other cultures, westernized society make only few exceptions with Scottish kilts, Greek and Albanian soldiers which wear short white pleated skirts and a small group of reformers. It looks like men going the same way like women when they discovered the comfort of pants for the female body.
January 25th, 2011 at 5:58 pm
Correct, skirts are an unisex garment(s). There is no doubt nor question that men can wearing it like women do.
do.
Also correct: skirted garments providing highest quality of comfort. Only discomfort might be happen when it is windy. Have proper unswear, then you do not have to fear.
No law or regulation are made that men cannot wear skirted garments. Make this my rules public to every man.
January 27th, 2011 at 12:11 pm
Aye aye Sir, I take your advice seriousely and I am wearing skirts only. It’s for my health and comfort. And I like and enjoy the nice comments, the congratulations being so brave, the small talks about manly men and men in skirts, sometimes applauding, the friendly people around me, it is just great.
February 26th, 2011 at 11:22 pm
Skirted John, you’re right that most men already forgot that their original wardrobe was a skirt in past. And today they looking like in a tunnel and only can see one little white spot, the end of the tunnel. In other words most men don’t know what is going on, just follow the crowd.
My husband wears skirts and very manly dresses, and I like it. It makes him very interesting and he looks great in it. The problem is that he only wear it when I am asking to do so, otherwise he wouldn’t. And that is sad because I know he’s doing it for me. I would love that he would do it by himself, also for his comfort, his health.