Anonymity a ‘cattle call’ to pedofiles
p2pnet view Crime:- Under the recent p2pnet post on a 59-year-old Dane said to have downloaded more than half a million pictures of “sexual assault on children under the age of three”, quoted from the Copenhagen Post, is a link to an item on The Pirate Bay.
But first, in a Reader’s Write, among a number of other points, “this idea that looking at a picture is the same as doing what is shown IN the picture is rubbish”, says Astroboi.
A post under the story was deleted and the author complained:
“The gist of my post was that I didn’t like the way most people today seem to be ready to drag someone out and lynch them for having downloaded child porn, even if they’ve never touched a child in their lives.”
The trouble, however, is: pedophiles are obsessives and IMO it’s reasonable to think sooner or later, looking at picture won’t be enough.
They’ll want to play out their fantasies in real life.
I’m all for freedom of speech — it’s largely what p2pnet is all about. But I’m 100% against anything which expoits children in any way, and making them objects of sexual desire under any pretext and for any reason is, in my eyes, indefensible.
Says another Reader’s Write >>>
Although due to extreme social stigma most of us will never knowingly run across one in our everyday lives, the anonymity of the Internet was like a cattle call that got the pedos spilling out of the shadows, shameless and emboldened.
Most aren’t stupid enough to openly post something plainly illegal, but it seems a lot like to hover in the grey area. Things that aren’t quite illegal, but are definitely tasteless. Or are there really ‘normal’ people who might have an appetite for 1000-pic collections of preteen “models” in provocative or suggestive poses?
hXXp://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4589116/Magazine_Fashion_27__Should_TPB_delete_child_model_torrents_
hXXp://forum.suprbay.org/showthread.php?tid=16773
Plenty of complaints that because this material is non-copyrighted and doesn’t (illegally) cross the line, torrent site admins should not only allow it, but even create a kind of “pedo” category to make it easier to find. A hot topic for sure.
Or should we be relieved they’re spending their time at a computer instead of (gasp!) a playground?
The pic on the right is apparently from a ‘child model’ mag and (again IMO) there’s no way it could be construed as being an innocent portrayal of a kid.
Says the text under the post in The Pirate Bay >>>
Some members wish to persuade The Pirate Bay to delete all child model uploaders and torrents. If you have an opinion about it, please vote in the poll:
http://suprbay.org/showthread.php?t=xxxxx [edited]
–edit–
Since the topic is closed, I don’t think you can vote on it. But feel free to state your opinion here.
1. There are no child porn torrents at The Pirate Bay. If someone uploads content which is illegal in Sweden, it is deleted, and the uploader is reported to the authorities.
2. Various vocal and influential people believe The Pirate Bay should not host torrents for commercial software, copyrighted music and movies, pornography, and child models. As a matter of principle, The Pirate Bay does not bow to their wishes.
3. In February 2008, The Pirate Bay did remove all preteen torrents, in spite of their legality. Since that time, it has returned to its original principles, allowing all torrents which are virus-free, correctly named, and legal in Sweden.
=============================
Magazine Fashion Issue 27 is one of my favorites by far. The girls are exceptionally beautiful.
The girls are exceptionally beautiful? That’s spine-chilling.
To me, as both an online publisher and the father of a 13-year-old daughter, a young girl in a bikini spread-eagled in what’s clearly intended to be a sexually provocative pose isn’t freedom of speech. It’s a siren call.
Jon Newton – p2pnet
..… and identi.ca
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win ~ Mahatma Gandhi
p2pnet – Horrifying online kiddie porn case, February 26, 2010
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March 1st, 2010 at 10:46 am
I usually am in favor of your liberal RW policies, however it may be time to send a message. I suggest that you delete these types of messages. It will serve two purposes, first it will send a message that these types of posts are not welcome and are not a valid topic of discussion on your site. Second, it will take away ammunition from shills/trolls, whom I hope are actually responsible for most of these abhorrent posts. If it causes some of these people to leave, so much the better.
IMHO it is a good idea.
March 1st, 2010 at 10:53 am
I’m with you all the way on this Jon!
March 1st, 2010 at 10:54 am
Whilst I appreciate the sentiment of the article, it’s hard to overlook the glaring misuse of language here.
A Pedophile is someone who loves FEET
A Paedophile is someone who loves Children (whether in a healthy way or not) and in common parlance is used to describe someone who preys on children for sexual reasons.
Please use the words correctly, or you’re just going to look as uneducated as your southern neighbours (yes, that’s how it is spelled).
March 1st, 2010 at 11:00 am
In my honest opinion, it is impossible for those voyeurs not to know how that material was obtained, and what it represents. They are guilty by association, accomplices, period. Children should no more be used as sexual objects than they should be used to mine coal, wage war, or for roasting in the oven. They are not things, they are people in the making and and cannot be disposed of in the garbage heap when they become too “strong”. If you were abused as a child, then you should have a good cry and fight the abuse of other children with all your might. Don’t try and justify it to yourself in anyway. It was a BAD thing that happened. You CAN make it happen no more.
March 1st, 2010 at 11:31 am
@Vocabulary Nazi
you are obviously a moron. the word is spelled (or “spelt”) both ways.
so is neighbor.
idiot.
March 1st, 2010 at 11:35 am
@Vocabulary Nazi
one other point, idiot – your name. vocabulary has to do with the meanings and uses of words.
spelling has to do with grammar and punctuation.
March 1st, 2010 at 11:36 am
Dear Vocabulary Nazi,
As one of those neighbors from the south I would just like to say “go screw yourself.” If you would prefer that I put that colloquialism in language you may be more accustomed to, “I invite you to initiate sexual intercourse with yourself in the most painful way possible.” If you have a problem with the prose in my response, I don’t care.
Very Sincerely,
EE
March 1st, 2010 at 11:45 am
PS The term for someone with a foot fetish is podophilia, perhaps you could try using a search engine before posting your foolishness.
March 1st, 2010 at 3:05 pm
The usual terms for a foot obsessor is “podophiliac” or “podophile”.
Both “pedophiles” and “paedophiles” prey on children.
“NO SOUP FOR YOU!”
- (Another Nazi)
March 1st, 2010 at 4:10 pm
I suppose by Vocabulary Nazi’s same retarded logic, “pediatric” care involves care of feet, and “paediatric” care involves care for children.
March 1st, 2010 at 6:09 pm
Well, to be perfectly fair to VN and some others, the “ped…” and “pod…” terms are commonly confused, as all the various ways they’re pronounced has them sounding the same.
March 1st, 2010 at 9:51 pm
For anonymity networks, protecting “unlawful” or “abhorrent” is a very good metric. Those who design them believe that anonymity must be universal.
March 2nd, 2010 at 1:30 am
@RW
Anonymity online is not a bad thing. What I’m doing on the net is none of your business. However, if one announces they are abusing children, or a party thereto, then they lose their right to privacy.
Furthermore, your insinuation that if one wants privacy they must be abusing children is insulting to this sites readers and our collective intelligence.
March 2nd, 2010 at 9:08 pm
VN seems to be one of those trolls, or someone trying to change the subject. I can think of one reason why.
March 3rd, 2010 at 1:21 am
I don’t know why this site even allows people to comment.
March 3rd, 2010 at 3:01 pm
I posted the comment regarding Minority Report. I thought I was being astute and honest but Jon obviously didn’t agree as the comment was deleted. I wouldn’t mind knowing what it was about my post that was offensive. I’ve been a long time supporter/reader/commenter here at p2pnet and have never had a comment removed. Please let me know so I can avoid making the same mistake in the future. Thanks!
March 3rd, 2010 at 3:40 pm
@ RW: “I posted the comment regarding Minority Report.”
If it looked at all like it was in any way excusing kiddie porn, I would’ve dumped it. But I honestly don’t remember it so if you’d like to email it to me, I’ll have another look and tell you why. p2pnet @ shaw dot ca.
Cheers!
March 4th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
I wasn’t trying to excuse kiddie porn and would never dream of trying. It was more about how it felt like you were almost condoning something akin to punishing thought crime I suppose (or future crime). I guess the thing that has been bothering me was how people pass judgment so quickly, often without knowing all of the facts. It reminded me a bit of how the copyright industry treats file sharers and the excuses we come up with to justify our innocence. For example, is the bill payer guilty or the owner of the computer? How do we know the accused is the one that was siting at the keyboard when said files were downloaded? How do we know the files weren’t planted due to a trojan virus or someone that doesn’t like the accused? We expect compassion and fairness when justice is directed at us, yet we’re all so eager to jump on the torch and pitchfork bandwagon when it is someone else doing something potentially disagreeable, regardless of what the actual “crime” might be. It is so easy say what we’re doing is a victimless crime, but the truth is that it’s not. We use excuses to justify our morally questionable actions so we don’t have to feel bad about them. Trust me, I’m a file sharer that definitely does not like the copyright industry, primarily due to some of their more questionable responses to the whole file sharing debacle. Make no mistake however; as infringing file sharers we are crossing a line that may be wrong, even if it is all blurred by shades of gray. I often struggle with this truth, but my desire to download entertainment for free always wins the argument in my head, possibly making me as guilty of greed as the industry is. I guess what bothers me most is all the self delusion it takes to not feel bad about it.
Here are some of the things I’m likely to tell myself, for example:
- The entertainment industry is so wealthy, they’ll never miss a few of my measly dollars.
- The entertainment industry is greedy/evil, so they deserve what’s happening to them.
- I’m only downloading to see if I like it and will pay for it if I do. If I don’t, it gets deleted.
- Even if entertainment workers did lose their jobs, they can always find another.
- Famous people are rich opinionated snobs that don’t care about anyone but themselves.
- I was raised to believe sharing is a good thing. Only selfish people refuse to share.
- If the industry were to price things more fairly and ditch DRM, I would happily pay for stuff.
- If the industry can’t or won’t adapt to the 21st century, then they deserve to fail.
I’m sure there are others I’m missing at the moment, but you get the general idea. When the entertainment industry does something really stupid, like attempts that involve infringing on freedom and privacy, I tend to feel all the more justified. We feel they want to hurt us, so we want to hurt them back. It’s all just human nature really.
I better end it there since I’m kind of going off topic. Remember, I’m not at all trying to excuse the exploitation of children in any way. Like I said in the post that got deleted, I’ve been on the receiving end of abuse more than once (it started when I was five) and am wholeheartedly against it with every fiber of my being. It is not my intent to anger my fellow p2pers either. I just saw some interesting parallels that I thought were worth sharing. Trying to see things from a neutral standpoint based wholly in logic rather than emotion is an incredibly hard task, especially when it involves children. However, it is still something our justice system must always strive for. History has shown us time and time again the price that is paid when we start basing all of our decisions in raw emotion. If any emotion matters, I believe it should be compassion. If the pedophile is guilty, he will pay for his crime and deservedly so. Just don’t forget to ask how he got that way in the first place. After all, we are all the cumulative product of how we were raised. If it wasn’t for that realization and a little bit of investigative research as an adult, I never would have been able to find peace and forgive those whom wronged me when I was a child. Follow the links of the chain and you may eventually find the real culprit.
March 6th, 2010 at 5:03 am
Although The Pirate Bay had previously removed all pedophile-related material from the site, this stopped as their trial date approached, possibly because continuing would have put them in a difficult position of having to explain their practice of ignoring copyrighted material while judiciously eradicating all traces of “legal” pedophilia from the site.
At Mininova’s trial, the site’s owners were grilled repeatedly by Brein lawyers over similar issues regarding their practice of proactively removing certain types of objectionable material while overlooking copyrighted material. This was, in fact, Brein’s central argument at the trial.
It’s quite possible that the copyright cartel were themselves responsible for posting pedophile material to torrent sites, since it would have strengthened their legal position immensely if, as expected, the site admins chose to remove it.