Ed O’Brien, Billy Bragg in file share show
p2pnet view Music | P2P:- The Featured Artists Coalition and its board are on record as being firmly behind the entertainment cartel three strikes and you’re off the net scheme, which is slowly but surely coming unglued around the world.
Among FAC board members are Billy Bragg, erstwhile co-founder of a2f2a.com, and Radiohead’s Ed O’Brien.
Together with Kate Nash, X Factor judge Louis Walsh, Roy Stride, Scouting for Girls, Marke Kelly, Marillion, Hal Rittson, Young Punx, in a BBC show, they expound on file sharing.
But the only two who have even the beginnings of a clue are O’Brien and Bragg.
Given that, what continues to astound me is why the two are still allowing their names to be associated with the FAC — why they haven’t resigned from the board and released statements clarifying their positions for the media at large and their fans in particular.
And as usual, no attempt has been made to include the most important people of all, the fans, who keep the bands, the BBC, the labels, and everyone else, in business.
Thanks to catflap, click here to check out Who Pays, or:
BBC World Debate – Who Pays In The Digital Age
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5435698/BBC_World_Debate_-_News-Who_Pays_In_The_Digital_Age
And …
BBC Panorama 15.03.10 – Are The Net Police Coming For You
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5435683/BBC_Panorama_15.03.10_-_Are_The_Net_Police_Coming_For_You
Stay tuned.
(Cheers, catflap)
..… and identi.ca
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win ~ Mahatma Gandhi
open letter – Dear Ed O’Brien …, January 23, 2010
BBC – Music artists discuss unlawful file-sharing, March 15, 2010
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Music artists discuss unlawful file-sharing
March 16th, 2010 at 3:04 pm
the world debate show is “News – Who Pays In The Digital Age?”
it’s not about music or p2p. it’s about the apparent decline in newspaper sales and the digital dissemination of news.
March 16th, 2010 at 3:11 pm
@jon
the panorama show DOES include fans who download music – from a family with teenagers to college and university students, to people on the street.
March 16th, 2010 at 3:27 pm
catflap, headline fixed.
I’m struggling. I have acute bronchitis and a bad case of flu on top of it, and I’ve had it for today. But if anyone else wants to check it out and do an item …
Cheers! And thanks …
March 16th, 2010 at 7:20 pm
I watched this BBC propaganda peice and was unfortunately greeted to what I expected, one sided reporting of the worst kind and zero effort made to balance the programme. The only “news” for discussion really is just who trusts the BBC after so many puff peices that parrot the words of their media industry paymasters, it seems the BBC have lost the art of balacing news with a neutral stance on items that affect their core business, they are now simply the same as any other organisation and as someone whos pop fought in WW2 and praised the BBC for resisting the considerable pressure to broadcast propaganda and misleading “facts” I am disappointed that the ideal has died shortly after my pop did, a small mercy but one I,m thankful for.
The BBC no longer stands for honest reporting but small minded and poorly researched puff peices in my opinion and I challenge anyone to show any different when it comes to their stance on anything that effects their business.
March 16th, 2010 at 8:11 pm
The Panorama show was awfully one-sided.
50 minutes of unquestioningly giving the BPI’s point of view. Only 10 minutes about the problems with the bill.
No mention about the Human Rights issues, etc. And the pro-filesharing family sounded so stupid, you wanted to hang them.
When a so-called factual programme refers to BitTorrent as a Website, you know you’re in trouble.
March 16th, 2010 at 8:13 pm
Now when it comes to the media, I don’t actually trust them at all. They want to make the world seem like a ‘big, bad, scary’ place by giving you nothing but bad news–news that will catch your attention–not the actual truth or what is actually happening (although it’s rare). If they’re so intent on giving us the truth, why don’t they talk about the entertainment industries lobbying for file sharers to be arrested and fined ludicrous amounts of money for songs that aren’t even worth listening to in the first place? The media doesn’t care about us or our feelings. They do what THEY feel is important or what they’re paid to do. The news can tend to be one-sided, no matter which way you look at it. I get so disgusted when I watch the news that I change to another channel just so I don’t have to hear their crap.
Oh, and Jon, I hope you feel better. : )
March 16th, 2010 at 8:15 pm
The BBC’s Culture Show episode from earlier this year covered the issues far more accurately.
So much so that the music industry complained. This is probably why Panorama was so biased.
March 16th, 2010 at 10:32 pm
I also saw that RW and that wasnt a model of honest reporting either, I suspect the industry only complained so they could obtain leverage for some of their paid cronies like Feargal Sharkie and the BPI copyright zealots to appear in any later production.
I live in the UK and could drive a coach and horses through their reporting ethic (or lack of it) as I,m sure many here could, but lets be honest the BBC are bought and paid for and they just havent twigged yet that we the licence payer could decide that paying a fee is not something we care to do given their disdain for the real owners of the BBC, the UK populace..
March 16th, 2010 at 10:51 pm
bad call joining Billy Bragg Jon, here is where I say ‘I told you so’.
He is just another MAFIAA tool, and ignorant as hell, as proven by his actions. He couldn’t tell the difference between a router and modem. Much less an index, and actual hosting.
If you need any proof of MAFIAA greed, just look at 250million deal Sony signed with a pedophile’s estate.
expect more regurgitated RIAA propoganda from this retard in the future.
March 16th, 2010 at 11:06 pm
@ surfer:
“He is just another MAFIAA tool, and ignorant as hell, as proven by his actions.”
He’s neither.
But you could be right when you say “He couldn’t tell the difference between a router and modem. Much less an index, and actual hosting”.
Cheers!
March 16th, 2010 at 11:11 pm
Hope you get better soon Jon
March 17th, 2010 at 12:38 am
@Jon (and everybody else):
My wife and I are going out of town for approximately six weeks, so it’s exceedingly unlikely that I’ll actually be checking this — or any other site — with any regularity, during that period.
Now, not having seen the BBC show in question, I still have a few observations (pretty general ones, actually):
1. Expecting the BBC — hell, *ANY* mainstream (Lamescream?) media outlet — to say anything positive about the technological/cultural paradigm-shift that has already made them worse than obsolete, is frankly, stupid. The Roman Catholic church didn’t particularly like the cultural shift that we call the “Protestant Reformation”, today. Back then, they called it “heresy”, and often tried to suppress it by violence.
The existing Power-elite in any given field don’t like to be challenged, and are exceedingly reluctant to admit the fact that the paradigm they represent/control has become irrelevant, superfluous, or even dangerous.
Given that the BBC is, arguably, more or less a mouthpiece for the British government (at least to some degree), it stands to reason that they’d be willing to cozy up to Mandelson and other such vermin, in an effort to make the digital Economy bill seem more palatable to the victims.
2. As far as Bragg: read back over the first few exchanges here on P2pnet, with him. A fairly-consistent meme of his, was that if he actually took an explicitly pro-p2p stance, he’d be “totally ostracized by the labels”. Call me paranoid, but I’m pretty sure he — and the rest of the “FAC-tards” — were never really “pro-p2p”, or ever really looking for an alternative to their corporate pay-masters.
They were using the p2p “scene” as a combination threat and bargaining-chip, in order to (hopefully) get the labels to cut them a bigger piece of the corporate-media pie (royalties and suchlike).
Bragg may be technically illiterate, and almost-totally ignorant about the history and original justification/limits of copyright, but he’s not stupid. He knows how to appear just “controversial” enough to make a splash, without actually having to *be* controversial or go very far outside of whatever angle he’s running.
And unfortunately, he got exactly what he wanted from A2f2a:
Lots and lots of Crosbie (and others) patiently correcting the errors of his thinking over and over, and getting nowhere, until he decided to declare A2f2a “dead”, and stomp off in a huff. Now, he gets to lie to himself (and his pals at FAC/corporate overlords) about how he “reall tried”, but the p2p-advocates are “just a bunch of stubborn thieves”. Thus, draconian bullshit like 3-strikes is “needed” to “protect” him and the other poor, beleaguered (corporate-owned) artists.
P2p advocates, copyright reform advocates, and anybody who dislikes what the corporate media megaliths/their cronies are doing, make *really good scapegoats*.
March 17th, 2010 at 4:14 am
Henry, don’t forget that Billy Bragg wasn’t the only person reading the ‘arguments’ he engaged in. As far as Billy alone is concerned, at least he’s now more fully informed about many of the anti-copyright/ISPtax arguments, which he can either seek to counter, or to promote. It’s still not certain which of the three positions (Copyright/ISPtax/FreeMarket) he’ll end up taking.
March 17th, 2010 at 6:01 am
I never did follow A2f2a. But after Henry’s synopsis of it I see I didn’t miss much. Same old…
March 17th, 2010 at 7:49 am
@ RW: “I never did follow A2f2a. … ”
Henry and surfer have opinions. But that’s all.
I spoke with the guy on the phone and face-to-face and no matter how wrong he may be by aligning himself with the FAC, and staying with them, that’s up to him.
But he’s no industry shill.
Cheers!
March 17th, 2010 at 7:56 am
“I never did follow A2f2a. But after Henry’s synopsis of it I see I didn’t miss much. Same old…”
The point of a2f2a wasn’t to “convince Billy Bragg” or any artist or IP holder of the “evils of copyright in today’s world”. The point was to give artists and fans an arena to talk directly to each other about all that ails their relationship, and everything that goes along with that. That was accomplished.
It was known pretty much from the beginning that Billy and the FAC were not going to be “willing students” to much of the opinions and recommendations they were certain to get from fans, “alternate” artists, and reformists alike. The fact that the FAC was leaving Billy to interact with the site completely alone, while they continued their campaign to back 3 Strikes was a “clue”.
Maybe the FAC actually did hope a2f2a would help them “document” why “filesharers really are pigs”. If this is the case, all they really accomplished was to make themselves look bad by ignoring a public forum created specifically for the purpose of getting them talking. The fans begged them to come on, yet Billy remained the lone FAC voice.
As Crosbie mentioned, more than just “Billy and the FAC” were witness to the exchanges. We started getting some encouraging entries from a number of “independents”, who had either disconnected themselves from their label, or launched themselves without one, and were perfectly happy with their prospects. It was shortly after that when Billy decided to “pronounce a2f2a dead”.
The idea of the site was to get your own “synopsis”, which you could only do by following it yourself. A number of things were accomplished. They just weren’t things *Billy* came in looking for.
March 17th, 2010 at 8:28 am
@ DA:
Thanks. Also, a2f2a.com is still a going concern.
Cheers!
March 17th, 2010 at 10:39 am
I never had a beef with a2f2a, I think it was and is a good concept. I DID however, start to have a beef with Billy, not for him not agreeing with Crosbie, but for him demanding 100% consensus for his ideas and implying no one was willing to work with him which was untrue. I think he was not honest about three strikes, as I pointed out here: http://www.mp2pnews.theunbound.org/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1267145558&archive=&start_from=&ucat=&
“he(Billy) claims to have no idea what a net tax is.
“WTF? Where did that come from? What is he talking about? I’ve no idea what this ‘internet tax’ you’re all so afraid of is.”
Interesting, since the FACs statement is dated Feb 15th, and Billy denied knowing what a net tax was on the 22nd.”
One thing I didn’t even think of at the time I wrote that, is that the very same subject of a net tax had been discussed rather thoroughly even before that in a2f2a. I just can’t buy that not only did be miss all those a2f2a posts discussing it, but that he was oblivious to what a net tax was 7 days after it was endorsed by the FAC, on the front page of their web site. I’m going to take a wild guess that he’ll wind up endorsing the very same net tax he “knew nothing about”.
March 17th, 2010 at 11:56 am
I just watched this. It seems that either the FAC have reversed their position, or this was filmed a long time ago. Billy’s “stated” position is summed up nicely by him – “it’s like taking everyone’s record players away then wondering why nobody’s buying records anymore”. Surely that’s at odds with the FAC’s current position that they support the 3-strikes policy.
The other FACtotums all seem to parrot the same position – “it’s wrong to cut off an internet connection for file-sharing”. WTF is going on here. FAC have recently, and very publicly, stated that they support the 3-strikes policy. How the hell did the BBC let this air as current affairs?
March 17th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
@ David:
See http://www.p2pnet.net/story/31522
And right back at the beginning, “Despite evidence that technical sanctions will not work from several IT experts that we invited, the majority was clearly in favour of some kind of sanction. In order to try to stop disconnection, we opted for bandwidth squeezing as a compromise between all of our positions. Our task now is to convince our colleagues that there is no technical solution, but this will take time.” http://www.p2pnet.net/story/29275
Cheers!
March 17th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
i have my own issues with bbc on some non-related things they do any say and i won’t go into them here.
but for those of you who wrote here about the two-facedness, political game the beeb is playing against it’s owners (the british public and world communities who purchase bbc merchandise), or if you’re just reading here and would like to make your opinions known directly to the bbc, i suggest you go to the bbc POV (Points of View) message board and start a discussion there.
POV is also an irregularly scheduled program which discusses viewers opinions about programs, scheduling, credit squeezing, etc. they also interview their program directors, producers and controllers in response to viewer complaints.
also, you do not have to be in the UK to post messages at POV. they have a very strictly controlled and watched message board, so i know that every message gets read by moderators and/or bbc admins, and the most controversial and widely discussed topics usually get brought to their attention. and they are often used on the POV program.
POV should be a regular, weekly thing, and it’s a mystery why it’s only broadcast in short series just a few times a year.
but i know the spring series will soon be starting soon, so anyone interested in starting a discussion there – this would be a good time.
(and yes, you can still post messages here at p2pnet.)
March 17th, 2010 at 4:44 pm
i did a bit of searching and someone has already started a thread at POV on the subject of downloading – but not much i can see about the BBC and FAC promoting false facts regarding it. perhaps someone knowledgeable here would like to start a thread on it to straighten them out. a lot of the posters there really don’t have a clue about what’s legal or not.
although a couple do point out some huge errors in the program.
here’s the link i found:
hxxp://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbpointsofview/F1951566?thread=7369513
one thing to note about the show is they admit that people who “illegally” download music spend almost double on music compared to people who do not use p2p.