Three Strikes Bill v Fundamental Human Rights
p2pnet view Music | P2P:- “Check out the signatories – perhaps a2f2a was more useful than had been expected!”
That was an email I had yesterday from DPI expert Christopher Parsons, pointing to an Open Letter in the Guardian.
“The digital economy bill is a highly controversial bill”, it says, going on >>>
Many of us believe that it threatens to severely infringe fundamental human rights, by allowing the disconnection of internet accounts for alleged copyright infringement, and also by new ‘website blocking’ laws that could result in new ways to suppress free speech and legitimate activity. There are also dangers to business, through restrictions on provision on open wifi networks, that could damage our economy.
But our worry today is that none of this will be properly debated by parliament. Last week, Harriet Harman MP failed to give the commons any reassurances that this important, complex and controversial Bill will be properly scrutinised by our elected MPs.
Democracy and accountability will be sidestepped if this bill is rushed through and amended without debate during the so-called ‘wash-up’ process. The thousands of people we know to be contacting their MPs with concerns will find their faith in politicians even further undermined.
For these reasons we are writing to ask that those most controversial parts of the bill – clauses 11-18, covering ‘technical measures’ and court orders for website blocking – either be properly debated, or be taken out of the Bill and subjected to genuine democratic scrutiny in a new parliament.
The first two signatories are openDemocracy’s Anthony Barnett and artist/activist Billy Bragg (right). He and I started a2f2a.com, artists-to-fans-to-artists, to:
- Help each community better understand the other;
- Help find a practical and workable system which offers artists fair remuneration in exchange for access to material by fans; and
- Help set the agenda for discussions about the role P2P can play within the emergent digital record industry.
But he disconnected from a2f2a and, “To me it’s obvious why Billy had to leave”, said BMKay in a Reader’s Write when I announced Billy’s departure, adding he’s “a moderate and unfortunately both the music cartels and most people on here [p2pnet and a2f2a] are extremists. I think he was hoping for some middle ground, unfortunately that is an increasingly rare commodity round here.”
Draconian law
Yesterday, “If you’re among those concerned by the way vested-interested politicians and entertainment industry shills such as non-elected bureaucrat Peter ‘Mandy’ Mandleson are trying to force Britain’s Digital Economy Bill through before the upcoming general election, head over to 38degrees, p2pnet suggested.
It’s teamed up with Open Rights Group “to make it easy for you to write to your MP urging them to stop the Government rushing the bill through”, we said, going on, “It’ll take you less than 2 minutes. Just enter your postcode above (so we can find your MP) and click ‘participate’ to get started.”
The “draconian law is opposed by industry experts, internet service providers (like TalkTalk and BT), web giants including Google, Yahoo and Ebay and even the British Library”, said 38degrees, noting >>>
Despite all this opposition, the Government is trying to rush it through quietly just before the election without proper debate – without a chance for us to voice our opposition. Email your MP now and urge them to stop the government rushing this law through.
There’s plenty to oppose in the Digital Economy Bill, it gives the government the ability to disconnect millions. Schools, libraries and businesses could see their connection cut if their pupils, readers of customers infringe any copyright. But one group likes it, the music industry. In a leaked memo a few days ago they admitted the only way to get the bill through would be to rush it through without a real parliamentary debate.
In other words, the bill is a disaster for everyone except the entertainment cartels.
Unanimous vote
In response to Chris Parsons’ email telling me about the letter, “That doesn’t surprise me”, I said, referring to the fact Billy had signed it.
He’s on the board of the Featured Artists Coalition, together with Dave Rowntree of Blur, Nick Mason of Pink Floyd, Ed O’Brien of Radiohead, Kate Nash, Hal Ritson of The Young Punx, Howard Jones, Mark Kelly of Marillion, Sandie Shaw, Master Shortie, Lucy Pullin of The Fire Escapes, Ross Millard of The Futureheads, Fran Healy of Travis, and Annie Lennox.
The FAC inaugural meeting resulted in a unanimous vote against any measures that criminalized file-sharing.
Six months later, the members reversed themselves stating they >>>
overwhelmingly support a three-strike sanction on those who persistently download illegal files, sanctions to consist of a warning letter, a stronger warning letter and a final sanction of the restriction of the infringer’s bandwidth to a level which would render file-sharing of media files impractical while leaving basic email and web access functional.
Soon after, “I accept that FAC need to deliver a better message that clearly states where we stand on file-sharing, but you have to understand that the vast majority of artists are still wedded to the record industry view of downloading as a threat,” said Billy a p2pnet Reader’s Write, going on »»»
There were over 60 artists in the room last week when we were discussing how to respond to the industry’s demand that the govt pass laws to suspend internet connections, only a dozen from the FAC. Despite evidence that technical sanctions will not work from several IT experts that we invited, the majority was clearly in favour of some kind of sanction. In order to try to stop disconnection, we opted for bandwidth squeezing as a compromise between all of our positions. Our task now is to convince our colleagues that there is no technical solution, but this will take time. [My emphasis]
Until we can get a critical mass of artists to understand that the record industry doesn’t always act in our best interests and that we need to take the initiative on the issue of copyright and access, we have to keep engaged in discussion and education.
Billy made that statement six months ago. But there’s been no discussion and absolutely no attempt to involve the people who keep the music industry (and Billy) fat and happy — the fans.
In my Letter to Chris Parsons, “I think Billy is wrong not to have completely and publicly disassociated himself from the FAC, and I’ve told him so”, I said, going on, “And I still think he’s wrong.
“His signature on this kind of document [the open letter] doesn’t mean much if he continues to tacitly support the FAC’s actions. And the same goes for Ed O’Brien and any of the other board members who are still board members.
“This is a situation where if one isn’t part of the solution, one is part of the problem.”
I’ve emailed Billy and I’ll let you know when I hear back from him.
For now, other signatories to the open letter include >>>
- Bridget Fox, Liberal Democrat PPC, Islington South & Finsbury
- Jo Glanville, Editor, Index on Censorship
- John Grogan MP
- Andrew Heaney, Director of Regulation, TalkTalk
- Julian Huppert, Liberal Democrat PPC, Cambridge
- Julia and Simon Indelicate, The Indelicates
- Jim Killock, Executive Director, Open Rights Group
- Nicholas Lansman, Secretary General, ISPA
- Graham Linehan, screenwriter
- Caroline Lucas, Leader, Green Party
- Baroness Miller
- Peter Tatchell, human rights campaigner
- Tom Watson MP
- Lord Whitty, Chair, Consumer Focus
‘We love you. But do you love us?’
In an open letter of my own, “All of the attention is presently on Britain but, as I’ve said many times before, the Three Strikes plan is international with Vivendi Universal, EMI, Warner Music and Sony Music, and Disney, News Corp, Time Warner, Viacom, NBC Universal and Sony Pictures, trying to foist it on governments around the world”, I said, adding >>>
I believe artists — the FAC in particular — must come out firmly and definitely against the Three Strikes farce.
So please, hold another emergency meeting and this time, return to your original position.
It’ll take cojones, but it’ll be the strategically and tactically smart thing to do.
Even if it’s adopted, three strikes won’t last. Anywhere. It can’t.
And the backlash against anyone who supports it will be enormous.
“We love you”, I added, “But do you love us?
“Show us you do.”
Stay tuned.
Jon Newton – p2pnet / a2f2a.com
..… and identi.ca
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win ~ Mahatma Gandhi
Guardian – Open letter: Wash-up not appropriate for controversial disconnection proposals, March 19, 2010
p2pnet – New anti-3 Strikes online effort, March 19, 2010
Billy’s departure – Billy Bragg leaves a2f2a.com, February 24, 2010
p2pnet – We are the walrus. Or, thank you Lily Allen, October 4, 2009
same goes for Ed O’Brien – Dear Ed O’Brien …, January 23, 2010
open letter of my own – Open letter to Featured Artists’ Coalition, November 16, 2009
Use free p2pnet newsfeeds for your site. Subscribe to p2pnet.net | | rss feed: http://p2pnet.net/feed
Net access blocked by government restrictions? Use Psiphon from the Citizen Lab at the University of Toronto. Go here for details. Click here to learn what technologies might help you bypass censorship in your area.
“It’ll take you less than 2 minutes. Just enter your postcode above (so we can find your MP) and click ‘participate’ to get started.”
The “draconian law is opposed by industry experts, internet service providers (like TalkTalk and BT), web giants including Google, Yahoo and Ebay and even the British Library”, says 38degrees, going on >>>
Despite all this opposition, the Government is trying to rush it through quietly just before the election without proper debate – without a chance for us to voice our opposition. Email your MP now and urge them to stop the government rushing this law through.
There’s plenty to oppose in the Digital Economy Bill, it gives the government the ability to disconnect millions. Schools, libraries and businesses could see their connection cut if their pupils, readers of customers infringe any copyright. But one group likes it, the music industry. In a leaked memo a few days ago they admitted the only way to get the bill through would be to rus
March 20th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
Jon,
At least Billy is on the right side of three strikes. I doubt you’ll get much info from him regarding the FAC, he has been very cagey about where they stand on anything, even accusing people of going on a “witch hunt” for wanting a list of FAC members who voted for three strikes. I would like to know if he supports a net tax, surly he can’t claim not to know what it is now that the FAC has come out in favor of one? If you do speak to Billy could you explain to him the reason why people at a2f2a wanted (and still do, I think) to know where individual FAC members stand on these issues is not so they can show up outside the FAC office with burning torches but so as to know just where to spend their hard earned money. Some fans may not care, but others may choose not to attend concerts, buy CDs or chachka from FAC members who support three strikes, suing fans, or want to force a net tax on them. On the positive side, fans may want to give even MORE support to FAC members who don’t support the aforementioned agenda.
March 20th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
“accusing people of going on a “witch hunt” for wanting a list of FAC members who voted for three strikes.”
Too many flees, too many lices, too many leaches, too many tap worms in corporations and governments.
A witch hunt is not what we need. What we need is a pest killer spray campaign. This is what we need.
March 20th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
” 1. Help each community better understand the other;
2. Help find a practical and workable system which offers artists fair remuneration in exchange for access to material by fans; and
3. Help set the agenda for discussions about the role P2P can play within the emergent digital record industry.”
This can not happen until the current entertainment industry is destroyed so that conversation can begin between decent people without the corporate terrorists.
March 20th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
It is simple. Billy is a negotiator. You are a big mouth.
March 20th, 2010 at 7:04 pm
@Monkey:
“I would like to know if he supports a net tax…”
While Billy never used the term “tax” (to the best of my knowledge), he was pretty keen on the idea of “better usage licenses”, which as clueful people already know, amounts to the same thing as a tax.
In “Billy’s version”, those that are interpreted as “making profit” from the use of music would be made to pay some kind of guaranteed licensing fee. I couldn’t, for the life of me, see any difference between that, and what we currently call a “performance royalty”, except that Billy’s proposal appeared to invite far too much exploitation of far too many inappropriately-labelled “content users”. The “language” behind his proposal (at least what we actually got from him, which wasn’t much) wasn’t even established, and left way too much open to anyone’s interpretation.
March 20th, 2010 at 7:10 pm
“You are a big mouth.”
If by that you mean I’m not sitting on fences waiting to see which way various cookies crumble, Yup. Guilty.
Cheers!
March 21st, 2010 at 1:49 am
Jon I,m not sure why your pouring vitriol on Billy again when its pretty clear he has done more than anyone to make sure ppl know he is against disconnection.
I know it may be hard to understand why he wont stand aloft and declare openly his views on some matters but like the rest of us he only sees the world through his own eyes and ears and thus his views are in the most part a function of both the social and business interaction he takes part in, he may never agreee with us and conversly us with him but at least he came to the table and took the time to interact and that makes him worthy of some respect.
I know it was a bit of a blow when he unilateraly left the a2f2a and I share the disappointment but why take the rocky road when a2f2a offers a path and point of contact for further discussion with other artists, thats where the discussion should still be taking place on what revenue schemes are acceptable to the filesharing masses, it does seem pretty harsh to look at Billy with jaded eyes when we ourself are undivided on just what our position is besides the fact we are members of the filesharing community. I hope you take my points as they are intended, we may indeed feel robbed of some kind of solution thats suits us all but the reality was Billy was only ever able to speak for himself and we shouldnt ask more from him that we are offering ourselves.
March 21st, 2010 at 11:00 am
@ Quartz:
There’s huge, huge difference between “pouring vitriol” and being highly critical.
I’m not having a go at Billy as a human being. He’s a nice guy, smart and down to earth, and I still like and respect him.
But in my humble opinion, we need someone with authority and profile to make a stand — to take an unequivocal position — on file sharing. That could have been, and still could be, him.
He’s in an amazing position — one no other artist has ever been in. He could champion those millions of people around the world who simply want to be treated fairly instead of like criminals and thieves. And at the same time, he could be saying musicians such as him have broken the corporate chains and want to work with, instead of against, the people they depend on.
But instead, he stops far short of actually condemning the three strikes scheme, preferring to skate delicately around the issue.
“Billy was only ever able to speak for himself and we shouldnt ask more from him that we are offering ourselves.”
Not so. He’s an important and vocal member of the FAC board, a very public organisation with a very public position, to … overwhelmingly support a three-strike sanction on those who persistently download illegal files, sanctions to consist of a warning letter, a stronger warning letter and a final sanction of the restriction of the infringer’s bandwidth to a level which would render file-sharing of media files impractical while leaving basic email and web access functional.
As an FAC board member, he’s on the side of those calling for direct action against fans, unless and until he clearly says otherwise. And that means he and others like him are keeping the cartels and politicians in power.
It isn’t music that’s dying, and it never will. It’s a part of being human. It’s the corporate cartels that are gasping their last and when people such as Billy equivocate, they’re only dragging things out to the detriment not of the professional music community, but to the people who put them where they are.
Cheers!
March 21st, 2010 at 11:15 am
I have been following this issue here and on A2F2A.com. Mr Newton speaks only for himself and the very few people who are regulars here and there. He is a side-show. Mr Bragg, however, is a main event, an important member of the music community and a spokesman for people who want a fair solution to a difficult problem. His views are the views of the majority.
Theft is theft and taking music which belongs to someone else without paying for it is stealing. People who steal must be punished and if that means taking them off the internet to help them learn the difference between right and wrong, it’s a small measure.
Mr Bragg and his colleagues are working for the benefit of the majority of music fans, not the few who believe it is their right to steal. They are to be congratulated and to him I say ‘Well Done’. To Mr Newton I say ‘Learn to be responsible’.
Gordon Wells, London, England
March 21st, 2010 at 11:38 am
Gordon Wells said:
“Theft is theft and taking music which belongs to someone else without paying for it is stealing.”
Gordon, so I i bought a CD at HMV and my kid wanted it on her iPOD. Are you saying its ok for me to rip it and put it on my kids iPOD since i paid for it?
Thanks.
March 21st, 2010 at 12:35 pm
Gordon, its unhelpful to make statements as you just did that are more aimed at undermining Jons ethics and credibility than actually reaching to the core of the debate, Jon and Billy both agree on at least one thing, artists need a model to garnish a living from and that’s something I myself agree with too, the path of divergence however is just what form that should take being that many are unhappy with the current model that still charges artists distribution costs when the model of distribution is nothing like it used to be and basically parts an artist with their own creative output using unfair contracts that are the industry norm.
I am not a pirate, a thief or any of the rather ridiculous names put forth by those who’s job it is to represent the big media cartels, I believe there is a great benefit in both social and economic spheres that’s delivered by filesharing and social interaction. The vast majority of artists are aware even more clearly than the rest of us that music has to be heard in some way shape or form before there is any possibility of consumer interest and subsequent purchase, this may not be the case with existing well known bands but for anyone else without an existing fanbase its unheard of for them to make any progress in building such a fan base without at least allowing some of their output to reach an audience, this is a fundamental point that seem to be missed by those who speak of copyright controls and pay per play models. Whether it be radio, tv, live performance, word of mouth or easy listening at a friends house, strict over-control of all sources of media dissemination will ensure most artists are limited in their creativity and controlled not by market forces but by their labels, this is something I believe Billy knows something about and is working to address, I support him for that, however we slice the cake its never going to satisfy everyone but unless we all discuss rationally with honesty a measure of good will and make head-way with those willing to discuss this sensitive topic, we are in danger of becoming as bad as the middle-men who fill an artists/groups head with scare stories. Lets continue discussing in any way we can as the alternative is not something anyone is going to take solace from, Billy is well known and has influence but so do you Jon, and we come here to read what you say because its mirrors our own thoughts in the main, you don’t make demands on us and likely Billy too wouldn’t like to make demands on his colleagues. Let us look to the future and make progress where possible at times when opportunities exist to do so is all I’m basically saying, Billy like ourselves can watch and interact if and when he chooses to if at all and that’s his choice, I just feel we should respect choices and in time we will accrue that same respect from those who currently make fighting talk for our open honesty and willingness to engage.
March 21st, 2010 at 12:45 pm
@ Gordon:
So you like side-shows, eh?
Lots of people do. And that frightens the living excreta out of Vivendi Universal, EMI, Warner Music and Sony Music. These sideshows represent ordinary people talking to other oridinary people in a way that’s never been possible before.
“Technorati currently states it is tracking over 112.8 million blogs, a number which obviously does not include all the 72.82 million Chinese blogs as counted by The China Internet Network Information Center”, said the Blog Herald two years ago. “Blog statistics often concern the English language blogosphere but we should not forget about the millions of other blogs that are not always included in estimations.”
That represents millions of people talking to millions of other people, file sharing and corporate depradations against their own customers (ie, all those bloggers) among the hottest of the hot topics.
That’s why the cartels are so delighted to have Billy and his friend onside. It doesn’t matter how much he may appear to be against the three strikes scam, until he clearly says he opposes it, and publicly disassociates himself from the FAC and anyone else who clearly supports it, talk is, as they say, cheap.
Meanwhile, people have shared with each other forever. Sharing makes the world go around. It’s how knowledge is spread. It’s how people tell each other about great music. With sharing, nothing is taken from the former owners, permanently or temporarily depriving them of its use. No money changes hands. Sharing is caring.
However, the labels have turned it into a perversion and people such as you are helping them.
Back in 2005 I wrote, “The time-honoured, almost sacred, principal of Innocent until proven Guilty is mocked by the entertainment industry which, with the active and enthusiastic assistance of the mainstream media, regularly and routinely holds people of all ages up as criminals who have been tried and convicted of the heinous crime of sharing with each other online.
“And while all of this happens the true criminals – the counterfeiters and duplicators who use the readily and universally available physical software, music and movie CDs and DVDs as masters with which they make and sell their own ‘product’ underground – count their profits, virtually unscathed.”
International singing star and musician Joni Mitchell said in a Rolling Stone interview:
“I’ve been screwed from the beginning … the deal that I got was just atrocious. I mean, it was like slave labor, really – no points, no budget. And I’ve never really had a good deal in the business.”
She also said, “Now, this is all calculated music. It’s calculated for sales, it’s sonically calculated, it’s rudely calculated. I’m ashamed to be a part of the music business. You know, I just think it’s a cesspool.”
Nor is Mitchell by any means alone with her performer’s view of the Music Biz, which cynically casts itself as a tough but scrupulously fair entity which ultimately has the best interests of its artists and customer bases at heart, I said in the post cited above, going on:
“In truth, it’s an industry run by venal, narrow-minded, chronically ignorant and technically challenged people who have no idea how to treat either the music fans or the performers who have made them so very, very wealthy. The executives are instead making a religion out of refusing to accept the fact they’re no longer in the physical 1970s, but in the digital 21st century.
“As Britain’s The Economist said, ‘So far they [the record labels] have been slow to embrace the internet, which has seemed to them not an opportunity but their nemesis. Rather than putting their product on file-sharing applications, they are prosecuting free-download users for theft’.”
And nothing has changed, except they’ve switched from suing their own customers to suborning entire governments. And still the lamescream press corpse supports them.
March 21st, 2010 at 1:01 pm
@ Quartz:
“all I’m basically saying, Billy like ourselves can watch and interact if and when he chooses to if at all and that’s his choice, I just feel we should respect choices and in time we will accrue that same respect from those who currently make fighting talk for our open honesty and willingness to engage.”
I understand your point. However, Billy is more than merely someone with an opinion. He’s a figurehead and what he says is picked up and parroted by the media.
If he truly believes it’s wrong of not only the UK government, but all governments, to be making file sharing a virtual crime with the cartels as the judges and sentencers, he should say so. This would do more to help than any number of careful dealings with the people who caused this mess in the first place just as though they’re responsible and honourable citizens.
I’m sorry, Quartz, but I honestly believe Billy is standing squarely at a crossroads in history and he needs to make a choice, not sit on the fence.
We’ve never been here before and we’ll never be here again. What people decide now, and how they act, will echo into the future. This is the thin end of a huge wedge with the power to not only affect music, but all our dealings, on- and offline, putting corporations which answer only to their boards and shareholders into the position of governments with the power to affect the lives of people everywhere.
That’s what’s at stake.
It’s the singers, not their songs, to paraphrase an old Dirk Bogarde movie.
March 21st, 2010 at 1:05 pm
@Gordon Wells
Ahh a new shill! I guess someone had to step up to the plate after Sam “The Cockroach” I am got exposed.
“Mr Newton speaks only for himself and the very few people who are regulars here and there.”
Are you kidding me? If the people this site spoke for were only “a few” as you claim, RIAA/MPAA MAFIAA groups would not be trying to push through ACTA, a multi national “trade” agreement which no one, even most politicians, are allowed to see the context of, other than what has been leaked. In opposing ACTA Jon in not just representing people here, but everyone who wants government by representation, not government by corporation. If people Jon speaks for were so “few” the BPI would not have handed the House of Lords “baby ACTA” the UK digital economy bill, containing the same three strikes wording as some of the leaked provisions of ACTA.
“Mr Bragg, however, is a main event, an important member of the music community and a spokesman for people who want a fair solution to a difficult problem. His views are the views of the majority.
Theft is theft and taking music which belongs to someone else without paying for it is stealing. People who steal must be punished and if that means taking them off the internet to help them learn the difference between right and wrong, it’s a small measure. ”
Are you claiming that is a quote from Billy? If so, could you reference it? Because from what I recall Billy personally has ALWAYS been against three strikes, he stated that on af2a and he is on record opposing the punitive measures you seem to favor so much here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00rl4dl , on the show Panorama where he clearly states that taking people’s internet is like “taking people’s phonographs away” If that’s too much effort for you to watch, why don’t you scroll up to the top of this page, where Jon quotes a recent letter with Billy’s signature on it opposing the UK digital economy bill’s punitive measures. Jon is not questioning Billy’s views on three strikes, as they are the same, he is questioning why Billy is still in the FAC, who’s viewpoints are not the same, the FAC being in favor of three strikes unlike Billy and Jon.
March 21st, 2010 at 1:17 pm
It would be cool if Billy had a tune or some signed stuff up for sale on p2pnet or that other website he abandoned.
March 21st, 2010 at 1:19 pm
@ Monkey, That’s how I read it. Jon quotes him above as saying “Our task now is to convince our colleagues that there is no technical solution, but this will take time.”
I’m in England too so this affects me directly. But Jon is originally from London and I get the impression he’s taking this personally as well.
What we have here are people with very strong opinions who won’t be easily put off course, and that’s good. But of the two I agree with Jon when he says “I think Billy is wrong not to have completely and publicly disassociated himself from the FAC, and I’ve told him so”, I said, going on, “And I still think he’s wrong. His signature on this kind of document [the open letter] doesn’t mean much if he continues to tacitly support the FAC’s actions. And the same goes for Ed O’Brien and any of the other board members who are still board members. This is a situation where if one isn’t part of the solution, one is part of the problem.”
March 21st, 2010 at 1:30 pm
This is an interesting discussion but it will not go beyond these pages.
In the meanwhile the people in a position to act have acted. The die is already cast and soon internet thieves will no longer be able to steal with impunity in Britain or anywhere else.
Yours, Gordon.
March 21st, 2010 at 2:09 pm
you got some brown on your nose, just there… Gordon..
March 21st, 2010 at 2:21 pm
as an ‘author of over sixty books and several hundred articles.’, you hvae no fear Gordy, nary a one of your books is online to steal, probably because they are ‘reasonably’ priced.
But for someone in the education industry, and a graduate of Cambridge University, I would think you would be more ‘enlightened’.
March 21st, 2010 at 2:29 pm
How to be a MAFIAA corporate shill 101.
When trolling p2pnet ALWAYS
1. Denigrate Jon
2. Attempt to minimize p2pnet (”This is an interesting discussion but it will not go beyond these pages.”)
3. Voice support for punishment of file sharers.
Did I leave anything out?
So Gordon, I’d like to know, really, how much DO you get paid for being a shill?
March 21st, 2010 at 2:41 pm
@Gordon:
“This is an interesting discussion but it will not go beyond these pages.”
Troling! Trooling! Trooooolinng! Troooooooolinnnnng!
Your name is Cook-Roach Is’nt it?
March 21st, 2010 at 3:10 pm
Come on guys lets cut “Gordon” a break, he is obviously unable to see past his own views and is deeply intransigent thus there is no discussion to be had and out time is wasted on him, however it seems he has posted here further to incite anger and derail the topic, thus replying to him makes his work easy, lets keep it “bouyant” and ignore this guy.
@Jon I understand completely what point you are making, I,m just used to making “room” for folks to discuss without pre-conditions and it seem like we where trying to force the issue when its not something that Billy himself seems to have decided on one way or the other, I do agree with you in that he has a powerful voice but I also remember he did say at the start of a2f2a that he would at that stage only speak for himself thus I was only taking what he had said on faith and not wanting to try to force his hand, I,m sure he will make his position clear if he changes his current affiliations.
March 21st, 2010 at 5:33 pm
@ Quartz:
I, on the other hand, am saying it’s vitally important for Billy, and others in his camp, to make their positions clear right now, not later. They’ve had plenty of time to mull things over.
Cheers!
(Now I’ll shut up.
)
March 21st, 2010 at 7:35 pm
@Gordon:
“This is an interesting discussion but it will not go beyond these pages.”
Sorry Gord, but I can happily say that some of the IRC channels I frequent have proven your line here false
March 21st, 2010 at 8:45 pm
” In the meanwhile the people in a position to act have acted. The die is already cast and soon internet thieves will no longer be able to steal with impunity in Britain or anywhere else. ”
Actually, Billy himself has said that he and the FAC are 100% aware that there is NO technological means to stop anyone from sharing anything. This is what makes his continued support of these measures so puzzling.
The VHS never was stopped.
The Cassette recorder was never abolished.
The first MP3 players couldn’t be stopped.
CD burners were never outlawed.
DRM protection has never stopped anyone from copying anything.
Every lock EVER made has been broken, every encryption decrypted.
There are already means around throttling measures, and encrypted connections are becoming commonplace.
The only thing the casting of the ‘die’ will accomplish is to accelerate the developement of anonymity for the
average joe. Billy and the FAC have already acknowledged that.
Your puffery is approaching buffoonery.
March 21st, 2010 at 9:36 pm
So Billy — you’re half-way there. Now do it all. Walk away from the FAC. Or bring them around. Either works.
Cheers!
March 21st, 2010 at 10:33 pm
LOL hahahahaha
“Your puffery is approaching buffoonery.”
LOL
That is a great line! I LOVE it.
Thumbs up for making me laugh
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:36 am
A URL for anyone that thinks this will stop filesharing in UK: hide-my-ip.com
I used to think filesharing was a petty crime. Now I think it’s a moral duty.
There’s a lot of countries that will want to introduce something similar to this, and they’ll be looking at the UK to see if their scheme is a success.
Everyone in the UK must continue to fileshare to show the Government and the Music Industry that ridiculous laws like this just won’t work.
March 22nd, 2010 at 7:54 am
One word, WASTE.
http://waste.sourceforge.net/
March 23rd, 2010 at 11:43 am
” as an ‘author of over sixty books and several hundred articles.’, you have no fear Gordy, nary a one of your books is online to steal, probably because they are ‘reasonably’ priced. ”
An interesting fact about p2p, one that the industry refuses to acknowledge publicly, is that p2p is a
reflection of what’s popular, what people WANT to see, hear, and read. The most popular and
PROFITABLE media are the most downloaded and easiest to find. If you are not found on p2p it’s
usually because you’re work is such crap that no one wants it, even for free. Having seen a list of
Gordon’s work, It’s easy to see why it’s not on p2p. It’s the type of tedious,dry,academic claptrap
that one would have to be forced to read it for a college course, forced to buy it to pass a class.
“The Protestant Ethic and the ‘Spirit’ of Capitalism’
“Learning Through Interaction, The Study of Language Development”
“The 1930 European Scrapbook” ??????
( I nearly fell asleep just listing those three )
I can guess with near certainty that the only sales of this drivel are directly related to necessity.
Of course it’s not on p2p.
P2P shows what people are BUYING.
March 24th, 2010 at 10:24 am
@Surfer
Where did the ‘author of over sixty books and several hundred articles.’ quote come from; I didn’t see that in any of Gordon’s posts.
March 24th, 2010 at 11:51 am
@monkey
Here’s one source
http://www.allisonandbusby.com/author/gordon-wells
A little ( about 5 minutes ) of poking around will yield a list of some of his ‘work’ as well.
March 24th, 2010 at 11:53 am
PS, i’m not all that worried about giving him ‘Free Publicity’.
One look at that list will send most people running for the toilet ( ‘Loo’ for those over the pond ).