Does LimeWire owe the RIAA $1.5 trillion?
p2pnet view P2P | RIAA:- If anyone has ever wondered if Vivendi Universal, EMI, Warner Music and Sony Music and their RIAA have lost it, they should wonder no more.
“The corks were popping over in LaLa land”, said p2pnet in the middle of May.
That was because judge Kimba Wood had ruled LimeWire infringes copyright.
Now it looks as though one Kelly M. Klaus (right) of Munger, Tolles & Olson, yet another RIAA posse, wants Wood to order LimeWire owner Mark Gorton to pay $1,500,000,000,000 for 200,000,000 alleged downloads, at $750 per.
To whom? To Arista Records, Atlantic Recording, BMG Music, Capitol records, Electra Entertaiment, Interscope Records, Motown Recording, Priority Records, LaFace Records, Sony BMG (?), UMG Recordings and Warner Bros Records.
That’s one point five trillion dollars.
If you think that’s ridiculous, bear in mind the labels were once awarded almost $2 million because Jammie Thomas-Rasset allegedly downloaded 24 copyrighted songs.
That’s not all. Klaus also wants Wood to issue an order permanently shutting LimeWire down.
“As in Grokster and Aimster, Plaintiffs have been and will be irreparably harmed because Lime Wire will most likely be liable for more in damages than it will ever be able to pay”, says Klaus in a legal document going on:
“Plaintiffs seek statutory damages under the Copyright Act as a remedy for Lime Wire’s unlawful conduct. (First Amended Complaint ¶¶ 74, 87, 99). Where the defendant’s conduct is willful, the range of statutory damages runs from $750 to $150,000. See 17 U.S.C. § 504(a)(2)-(c).”
And that’s not all either.
The RIAA aka Klaus also wants LimeWire’s assets frozen.
“By this motion, Plaintiffs seek a preliminary injunction imposing an immediate freeze on all of Defendants’ assets to prevent them from any further attempts to insulate their ill-gotten gains from a future judgment. The Court has found Defendants Lime Wire LLC (’Lime Wire’), Mark Gorton (’Gorton’), and Lime Group LLC (’Lime Group’) liable for inducing infringement of Plaintiffs’ copyrights (and related state law claims). (May 25, 2010 Amended Opinion & Order (“Order”).) Plaintiffs will be entitled to substantial damages, totaling hundreds of millions of dollars, or even billions, because of the massive infringing conduct for which these Defendants are liable.”
But as a post on Ray Beckerman’s Recording Industry vs The People says, Klaus’ efforts do little more than show “the lawyers have no clue as to the technology they seek to stop”, going on >>>
Unlike Kazaa, grokster, and napster, there is nothing that can or will be shut down. They may try to stop the distribution of the limewire client. But the client is so widespread on the internet that they have no real chance of it disappearing.
The same thing happened when AOL tried to stop the original gnutella client.
Speaking on the technology side, I think they have no idea of what they are trying to stop, this is the gnutella network. There is no server to be shut down that will kill the network like with napster and grokster. Each client is a part of the network and can function without a server in some warehouse. It will be impossible to close it down.
All clients will still function even if Limeware as a group/company ceases to exist.
Which adequately sums it up.
Apart from the fact Gorton doesn’t have a trillion, or even a billion, dollars, the RIAA’s demand is exactly like demanding an order to plug one hole in a hose chock full of holes, and that’s permanently left On.
“In the nearly two years since the parties filed their respective summary judgment motions, LimeWire has continued to be a tool of choice for rampant infringement of Plaintiffs’ works”, Klaus tells Wood, adding:
“Since July 2008, the LimeWire client software has been downloaded from the website more than 50 million times, bringing the total downloads of the client from just that one website – i.e., exclusive of downloads from Lime Wire’s own website – to more than 200 million (and counting).”
UPDATE:- Also see Does LimeWire owe Big Music 15 trillion? NOT a mere 1.5?
Stay tuned.
p2pnet – Big Music’s RIAA crows at LimeWire ruling, May 13, 2010
almost $2 million – Jammie Thomas-Rasset award reduced …, January 22, 2010
Recording Industry vs The People – RIAA asks for permanent injunction in Arista v Limewire, June, 2010
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June 8th, 2010 at 8:53 am
hahahaha if you do 200.000.000 x 150.000 -> you get -> 30.000.000.000.000 (maximum fine)
some research
-> http://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/fedpoint/fed01.html
There is about $829 billion dollars of U.S. currency in circulation; the majority is held outside the United States.
hahaha excuse me -> there are not enough dollars to pay the bill
… no no not in my pocket … in the world sir 
June 8th, 2010 at 9:24 am
@ cliff
It’s a UK trillion, I believe. But I admit I have trouble with 2 + 2.
Either way …
Cheers!
June 8th, 2010 at 9:51 am
This should show anyone just how desperate they really are. Oh well, there’s always good indie music out there
June 8th, 2010 at 9:57 am
this man needs to see a shrink, immediately!!!
i reckon that he was dropped on his head as a child (from the top of a tall building).
on a side note: i wonder what happened to Crosbie??????????
June 8th, 2010 at 10:05 am
They originally wanted a gajillion bajillion dollars, but decided to settle for 1.5 trillion.
June 8th, 2010 at 10:08 am
AOL tried to stop the original gnutella client?
The mere fact that I was not even remotely aware of this attempt should be indicative of the merits of such an idea.
Lunacy.
June 8th, 2010 at 10:57 am
Russia and China had a great opportunity to default the United States of America in 2009 by asking the US to pay back the paper it sold to them, right at the beginning of the crisis. But they did not do it for whatever reason, and now the US propaganda machine is in full swing to blame China for whatever crisis that is coming.
June 8th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
This is the results of the LAZY IMBECILES CLASS.
As to “pay $1,500,000,000,000 for 200,000,000 alleged downloads, at $750 per.”….
Why not ask for $150,000 per download. After all, music industry lawyers (especially from the so called music publishers who actually publish nothing) routinely ask for this amount for copyright infringements, and the law, written by obvious geniuses (in mental work avoidance, that is). That would give us a new damage (for absolutely no damages, that is) amount of:
300,000,000,000,000 (Three hundred trillion dollars?).
We, who are somewhat knowledgeable about copyright, and victims of the “copyright system” should celebrate.
The law and the legal system, and that included Supreme Court judges and the Presidents that have signed the various copyright laws for what they were when they signed papers: the LAZY IMBECILES CLASS.
June 8th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
“$1,500,000,000,000 for 200,000,000 alleged downloads, at $750 per.”
1,500,000,000,000 / 200,000,000 = 7 500
June 8th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
This is good news!
Those 1.5 trillion dollars will do nicely to sustain the planet’s music artists for decades to come.
OH SNAP WAIT.
The RIAA does not claim on behalf of the artists, nor do they ever intend to pay out their revenues, royalties and scammed together fines to anyone but their butthuffing nepotes on the boards of the majors.
Oh well.
I’m just gonna fire up Limewire and seed some P2P Clients, you know, just in case.
June 8th, 2010 at 1:43 pm
While the legal document linked does contain all sorts of amusing factual errors and hyperbolic language, I fear that it is somewhat hypocritical for P2PNet to be mentioning these errors under a heading with a grossly-exaggerated and misleading title. At no point to the claim to be seeking $1.5tr (that’s UK trillions, or $1,500tr in US). While they do mention the $750-$150,000 per infringement range, that is not related to the 200 million downloads *of the Lime Wire client*.
If you read the document, they are only suggesting that “LimeWire’s liability undoubtedly will run into the hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars” (top of page 7 of the linked document). While I agree that this is still ridiculous and that LimeWire should not have been liable for any infringement in the first place, we get enough made up and misleading figures from the IFPI, MPA etc. we don’t need any more from the news sites.
June 8th, 2010 at 1:51 pm
I’m sorry to disturb your passions, but 750 × 200,000,000 = 150,000,000,000, not 1,500,000,000,000. So it’s not 1.5 trillion, but 150 billions.
But after all it does not matter. The number is based on “Bulgarian variable” either way.
June 8th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
“The RIAA does not claim on behalf of the artists”
Right on.
I have followed many music cases and have never heard of one case where a record company or music publisher shared with artists any incomes that was not voluntarily paid by someone (usually a record company or a radio station). This is because artists and songwriters are not significant parts of the “copyright infringement” racket.
Of course what record companies and music publishers do with their incomes is very confidential. All accounting books are closed, even to government who is not even interested in collecting the proper taxes. How convenient!
June 8th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
Again me … counting 750 × 200M is irelevant either way. We have to count on this sentence: “Lime Wire users generate billions of searches and downloads every month.” If we would count with 2 billions (as to be able to talk in plural – “billionS”) and use the lowest rate of $750, we are again at 1,5 trillion damage, but now “every month”
.
June 8th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
Real musicians have day jobs. Get off your lazy asses and go to work.
June 8th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
Surely, it should only be for music downloaded AFTER it was deemed illegal.
June 8th, 2010 at 2:56 pm
As an attorney for the RIAA, I assure you this is no joke. Why, our calculations show that over 8 billion people have committed crimes against the record companies in 2010 alone. Since published estimates put Earth’s population at 6.6 billion, we infer that over 1.4 billion people are hiding their own existence from the rest of humanity, all just to take advantage of the major labels! If that isn’t damning evidence, we don’t know what is!
June 8th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
Hi all:
I apologise for not doing my sums properly. As I said earlier, I have trouble with 2 + 2.
As Duke points out above “they are only suggesting that ‘LimeWire’s liability undoubtedly will run into the hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars’.”
Oh. Not trillions, then: ‘only’ billions or millions.
Also note there’s a question mark in the heading.
I do take your point, though, Duke, and having said that, let’s not forget the labels and their many and various AA units routinely (and deliberately) pump out fake figures which are quoted in the lamescream media as undisputed fact.
Anyway you look at it, it’s absurd.
Cheers!
June 8th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
@ Jon
You’re forgiven.
And I don’t think you need to worry, Duke. Trillions, billions or millions, the point is the same.
Also, “the lawyers have no clue as to the technology they seek to stop” … “Unlike Kazaa, grokster, and napster, there is nothing that can or will be shut down. They may try to stop the distribution of the limewire client. But the client is so widespread on the internet that they have no real chance of it disappearing.”
June 8th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
Duke, you get crap from a crap site
June 8th, 2010 at 5:39 pm
@zorg
if you are not a troll, i hope you die in the most brutal way anyone could imagine.
June 8th, 2010 at 5:52 pm
Just because of this, I’m pirating twice as hard.
June 8th, 2010 at 6:05 pm
The RIAA appears to be comprised of ‘people’ (using the word very generously) that belong either in an insane asylum for the criminally insane, or a prison – or possibly they should just be deported back to the eastern European ghetto their forefathers crawled out of.
June 8th, 2010 at 6:21 pm
Prince wants to “reclaim” his music. Let him keep it between the cheeks, it smells like that anyway. Nothing relevent for 25 years.
June 8th, 2010 at 6:27 pm
“As an attorney for the RIAA, I assure you this is no joke. Why, our calculations show that over 8 billion people have committed crimes against the record companies in 2010 alone. Since published estimates put Earth’s population at 6.6 billion, we infer that over 1.4 billion people are hiding their own existence from the rest of humanity, all just to take advantage of the major labels! If that isn’t damning evidence, we don’t know what is!” – zorg
Oh, No!!! The music industry has been so wronged by 1.4 billion people!!! Like we pirates really give a fuck, in fact… we love that kind of news. If 1.4 billion are against you, then you should know you are doomed to fall.
June 8th, 2010 at 6:32 pm
Out of curiosity isn’t that the largest civil judgement in history for anything?
June 8th, 2010 at 6:41 pm
“there is nothing that can or will be shut down.”
Not only that but limewire is open source so this mean that the source code is available to anyone meaning that the software development can and will continue (just like Shareazza) no matter what.
For exemple Vivendi Universal tried really hard to stop Shareazza and spend a fortune corrupting developers and web masters, stealing the domain name and stealing the name as a trademark via a ghost company located in Israel. They failed!
On top of that it is certain that many modes of the software will appear if LimeWire as a company cease to exist since many groups will take over the development.
June 8th, 2010 at 6:56 pm
Oh No! There is not enough currency in the entire word to pay the parasites!
We have to ask Obama to print more money!
June 8th, 2010 at 7:07 pm
capitalism- to gain money, at anyone’s expense but your own.
June 8th, 2010 at 8:11 pm
this website got the math right.
http://slashparty.com/riaa-v-limewire-and-some-change/
June 8th, 2010 at 8:30 pm
this means that an oil spill costs somewhere in the neighbourhood of 460 times more than the cost of ripping off a Britney Spears track.
June 8th, 2010 at 8:34 pm
“Since July 2008, the LimeWire client software has been downloaded from the website more than 50 million times, bringing the total downloads of the client from just that one website – i.e., exclusive of downloads from Lime Wire’s own website – to more than 200 million (and counting).”
But who’s counting?
June 9th, 2010 at 12:13 am
Sounds like someone needs a bailout.
June 9th, 2010 at 1:26 am
Amazing how little the RIAA knows about sharing programs – trust me, they all learned from Napster’s fall
June 9th, 2010 at 2:21 am
It’s sad that you can be charged more for downloading songs than you can for rape rape. Yep, I said rape twice.
June 9th, 2010 at 2:29 am
The only thing sadder than this article is that some of the idiots who commented in response to zorg’s comment couldn’t tell he was being sarcastic.
June 9th, 2010 at 5:57 am
Where is the source for this please ?? I searched google but all the top hits point to here
June 9th, 2010 at 8:23 am
@Jbud:
As it says in the story -
http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/2010/06/riaa-asks-for-permanent-injunction-in.html
Cheers!
June 9th, 2010 at 9:37 am
Hey RIAA, FUCK YOU!
June 9th, 2010 at 10:03 am
Interesting to note that BP’s liability due to the Gulf of Mexico oil spill is capped at $75mil – so now musicians & record companies regard themselves as more valuable than the environment. Madness..
June 9th, 2010 at 10:24 am
Check the math guys, you have an extra zero in there. It should be $150b
June 9th, 2010 at 10:33 am
@ Geoff:
Please see my earlier comment -
http://www.p2pnet.net/story/40481#comment-1016476
Yes! It’s only billions. Not trillions.
Cheers! And thanks
June 9th, 2010 at 12:11 pm
Like prosecuting a gun manufacturer for a nutters rampage.
June 9th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
lolz big time,
several times the amount BP is going to pay for the damage ?
even murder is waay cheaper…..
June 9th, 2010 at 2:45 pm
The RIAA along with ASCAP, BMI and SESAC have effectively destroyed music as we know it. Radio stations won’t play music anymore because of the egregious fees imposed, clubs won’t book bands anymore for the same reason. When people try to hear it through online sites they are sued. Kid Rock and Dave Grohl, those darlings of the anti-establishment (yeah, right) have filed suit against Canton, Ohio’s Mallonn’s Grill & Bar because the drinking establishment allegedly didn’t have the licensing it needed to play their music.
They want the bar to pay for damages and stop playing their music immediately. Hey, Kid and Dave, guess what? I’m throwing out any music I have by you two, and I’ll never buy anything you all produce again. You make me want to puke.
June 9th, 2010 at 7:13 pm
Wow…. Judge Kimba Wood is a moron (and/or puppet) of epic proportions. And even if by some chance the RIAA *does* get some money out of Limewire, I’m betting NONE, ZERO, NADA dollars ever make their way back to the artists they claim to protect. The record company executives have a hulking, outdated business model with gigantic expense accounts they need to protect – they seem to think the music business is the same as it was in the sixties. And as for the lawyers…. well, every ecosystem has bottom feeders & parasites.
June 14th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Its going to be really funny. The day after the big bad RIAA wins their big bad lawsuit against Limewire, I and millions (possibilly 1.4 billion) people are going to fire their Limewire programs up and we are all still going to be downloading the latest Lil Boosie, Metallica, Jay-Z(whatever your preferences are) and noone will have been affected. Noone except Mr Gorton. I feel bad for that cat, but I am more than sure that he will file for bankruptcy, which will stave off any creditors and judgements for a period of time. I hope he transfers his home and vehicles to his children, just like O.J. Simpson did. Hey, they want to play their little games, well, I hope Mr. Gorton gives them one hell of an inning. But with no servers to shut down, no buildings to raid, no assets to auction off, what are they really hoping to gain. The record companies have spent even more moneytrying to right a huge non existant wrong, and are probably going to reap not a single dime. I am calling for all Limewire users to keep on keepin on, to hell with the RIAA. I feel bad for you, Mr Gorton, and I sincerely hope that you can recover from this nonsense. Its amazing the freedoms that we have, oops- only if someone else says its ok to have those rights: ie the court system.
June 17th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
“Its amazing the freedoms that we have, oops- only if someone else says its ok to have those rights: ie the court system.”
The current court system is corrupt, though. And how do you deal with corruption? You go straight to the source and eliminate it!
And yes, I also feel bad for Mr. Gorton. If it weren’t for greedy people like the RIAA/MPAA/etc., we’d all be better off.