p2pnet.net Feature- As the official p2pnet Roving Reporter, my travels take me all over the world, sometimes to the most unlikely of places, but always meeting some of the most intriguing people in the entertainment industry. And it’s a real pleasure to find well-known, talented and influential entertainers who, unlike some, aren`t afraid to sit down face-to-face and confront the important issues of our digital global society.

One such group has sold more than 16,000,000 albums, their 1991 self-titled film was voted The Best Irish Film of All Time, and they’re known all over the world as The Saviours of Soul and The Hardest Working Band in the World (deservedly so). And they’re the intrepid band of friendly, energetic Dubliners called The Commitments.

That’s them on the right at the White House in March, this year. Yup. That White House. They were performing at a St. Patrick’s Day luncheon in honour of Irish prime minister Bertie Ahern.

And I was recently fortunate to accompany them on their sold-out tour of Switzerland, where I had the immeasurable pleasure of talking with them, openly and candidly, about the internet, filesharing, and how it affects the entertainment industry. (And getting very drunk with them in the process!)

Gathered with me in their cramped, smoke-filled, make-shift dressing room really just a trailer were Ken McCluskey (Derek “The Meatman” Scully), guitar, and Dick Massey (Billy “The Animal” Mooney), drums the only two original cast members of the film still touring regularly with the band; Karen Coleman, vocalist; Darren Hanley, bass; Danny (Mini Lips) Healy, trumpet; and their longtime roadie/techie/comrade-in-arms Paul, who himself has extensive experience with the internet and P2P. The rest of the band – Joe The Moose Walsh, lead vocalist; Dano Rooney, keyboards; Serge Stavila, tenor saxophone; and Claire Malone, vocalist, had all gone back up the mountain to their hotel to try and catch up on lost sleep.

We drank, smoked, laughed, and talked all night about important issues, legal and moral, while the rain outside (barely masking the last few songs from Eric Burdon and the Animals playing live next-door to us) battered the aluminum panels of the trailer, slowly sinking it down into the mud in the middle of a beautiful valley surrounded by waterfalls and the amazing and breathtaking Swiss Alps.

Here, in it`s unfiltered entirety, exclusive to p2pnet, is our free-for-all, no-holds-barred discussion:

Read on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

catflap: First of all, thank you all so very much for taking time out of your hectic schedule to talk with me, and do this little interview. I, and the rest of your fans, greatly appreciate it.

I know for a fact that your music the two soundtracks from the film The Commitments – is extremely popular in the P2P filesharing networks. How do you feel about people just trading your music for free?

Ken: I think we`ll let Paul start off with this one, since he knows a lot about it and he is part of the band.

Paul: Hmmm I have no problem with it.

catflap: Good! Great! The roadie has no problem with it. Heh. (*smile*)

Ken: Well, he is technically-minded

Paul: I have no problem with people trading and holding onto basically ones and zeros over the internet. They should be able to do whatever they want.

[It`s important to note here that the rest of the band nods enthusiastically in agreement, also voicing their support of this position.]

catflap: You surf the net a lot, right Paul? Do you use filesharing programs?

Paul: Yes, and there are lot of good videos out there, for example on 9/11, and lots of music and information out there, so people can make their own choices. Choice is important.

catflap: Okay, but if your music is being traded even in ones and zeros you`re not being paid. That`s the big issue right now for the cartels. The RIAA and the other cartels claim that filesharers are taking money out of your pockets.

Dick (rolling a cigarette): Bootlegging has always been going on for ever and ever, and it`ll never stop. No matter what form or format it takes, it`ll never stop. They`re already bootlegging DVD`s. A kid crossed my door the other day. He gave me a list of current movies that are in the cinema, and said, Do you wanna buy any of these?

catflap: Well, now that`s an important point –

Dick (lighting up his rolly): How do you stop it? You don`t. You can never stop it. You can`t stop a black market. Black markets will always exist, in every economy. They have to exist. For economies to exist, the black markets must be there.

catflap: Is that because, like Paul said, it`s freedom of choice, or because people want to make money?

Dick: Well, both.

Ken: Both. And people are making` money off it.

Paul: Whether people are downloading from the internet or whatever, it`s a good thing. It`s fueling their interest in The Commitments, so if The Commitments are in their town or area, they might go, Hey, let`s go see them.

catflap: They buy a ticket! Or, they might go and buy the CD anyway after they`ve heard a couple of the tracks or even the entire album from the internet. A lot of people use P2P to sample music before they buy it because to pay $30 for a CD which only has one or two good songs on it –

Karen: Yeah. And that means that the people making the CD’s have been doing all people for years! Ha ha! That`s been going on for years!

[Everyone agrees with that!]

catflap: But there`s a big difference between bootlegging, where people come up to your door and wanna sell you these things –

Karen: Mm-hmm.

catflap: That`s real piracy. Those people are making money off of your work. But on the internet, it`s all free. No money is changing hands, nor are services being offered in kind. No-one is a pirate because they`re sharing things. Do you agree with that? Or is it theft? Are they stealing from you?

[It`s important to note here, too, that Ken later told me after the tape recording was finished - that the band receives absolutely NO ROYALTIES from sales of The Commitments DVD`s! Btw, I brought with me my own store-bought DVD of the film to have them autograph it for me. It WILL NOT be sold on e-bay or anywhere else. So don`t ask. ]

Karen: I can sort of understand an artist being a little bit pissed off, but –

Dick: You can make the analogy of an orchard on the side of the road where there`s a load of apples. And there`s also a guy making money selling his apples. And so a guy pulls up in his car by the orchard, and he says, Hey, look at these. There`s apples there. And he calls a few of his mates and tells them, Hey, there`s apples for free here. Come and take them. And the apple-seller comes back and half his crop is gone.

Karen: You`ve lost me now! Haha!

[Hmmm catflap also wonders where this analogy is heading ]

Dick: The point is, if only a few people take a handful of apples, you won`t feel the difference. But if loads and loads of people take a few apples if only one or two people buy the album, and it scatters across the internet, and people download it only from one or two people, well then the artists are in big trouble. But at the moment, I don`t think the artists are in big trouble because that`s not going to happen.

Ken: Who really is making the argument here? Is it the artist that`s making the argument, or is it the record company? Because, don`t get me wrong here the lion`s share of all of that goes to the record labels. To be honest with you, the last person, or persons in the pecking order, and to get the residuals, is the artist. The lion’s share goes to the record companies, so they`re the one`s who`ve got the biggest gripe. And if the artist went ahead and said to the record companies, Hey, I don`t need you as a record label. I can sell over the internet, the record labels wouldn`t be happy with that either.

catflap: Right. They want to control whatever the product is and it`s distribution.

Ken: Yeah, so really, the record labels aren`t interested in artistic endeavor, or the music or anything. They`re interested in the money.

catflap: Do you all agree with that assessment?

All in unison: YES!

Karen: All in favor, say Aye!

All: Aye!

catflap: And I guess you have your own label for your new album?

Ken: Yes. It`s an independent label.

catflap: Very good! Excellent!

Ken: So basically, you can get our music over the internet for free, and we don`t mind. Oscar Wilde, the great Irish writer, turned around and said, The only thing worse in the world than being talked about, is not being talked about. So any people that wanna get on the internet and have our stuff for free, or whatever, go ahead.

catflap: Great! Well, what about the other side the real piracy of people going door-to-door, car-boot sales, flea markets, and selling copies of your CD`s?

Karen: Nobody wants anyone to see an inferior product, particularly the artwork done behind it.

Ken: If you think about it and it might sound stupid – but the answer to all these problems are on TV

[And again, catflap is intrigued ]

Ken (continues): in a documentary I saw about Michelangelo. In the 1550`s or whenever it was. And then all of a sudden there`s a painting, and somebody goes, This is a Michelangelo, and it`s being passed around and passed around, and it`s a forgery. What is it? It`s a bootleg. Some guy went out and copied this Michelangelo and flogged it off. So it`s out there.

catflap: Would you feel that you were losing money if you found out that your work was being sold by other people?

Karen: I`ve never met anybody I don`t know anybody who`d be crazy enough to sell them! But that`s a loaded question. Anything that`s illegal, that`s against the law, people selling CD`s of The Commitments I mean, what can you do? It`s not right.

catflap: I`d say that accepting money or services for the product is I`d say, that`s I know that`s illegal and I`d say that`s theft. But when you`re trading ones and zeros on the internet for free, and there`s no money changing hands, there`s no services being offered –

[At this point, your friendly catflap is put on the hot seat ]

Ken: Well look. You`re well-read, you`re well-educated. You`ve got a good insight into the whole thing. Hypothetically, we reverse roles. I`m you and you`re me. You`re Ken McCluskey, the guitar player in The Commitments –

Karen: Can I be Darren, the bass player?

Everyone bursts out laughing.

Ken: Okay, you wanna be Darren? Okay, she`s Darren, I`m you and you`re me. I mean, how would you view all this? If you were in The Commitments, and you know The Commitments website gets 8 million hits a year, we sold 16,000,000 records, the movie`s been seen by a billion people, etc., and you know that down the line, somebody`s making money that they really shouldn`t be making I mean, what would your take be on it?

[A-ha! Crunch-time for catflap.]

catflap: I`d agree with you. First, you`ve got the movie and music cartels, and they`re taking the biggest chunk anyway of whatever`s sold legally. And like you said, I`d be the last to get whatever`s left. So first, I`d want a larger percentage. If they claim they`re losing so much money which they`re not! these companies have never had higher profits than they have today, I`d be complaining, saying, Well you`re saying you`re losing money, but we know for a fact that you`re making money. Where`s my share? My fair share. And as Dick said, you can`t stop black market bootlegging so I wouldn`t worry too much about it.

Ken: I think their (the cartels`) argument is, if there`s £100, and fifty of it is generated legally, you`ll get your share out of that share. But if there`s another fifty generated illegally, you won`t get any of that. And the fifty that`s generated illegally could be generated legally. So, a double-whammy.

catflap: Yeah.

Ken: It`s like the old thing: If you`re in the army, and you broke a light, you pay for the light you broke, and you pay for the light to replace it. I think that`s where that comes in. We`re paying twice for this.

catflap [feeling the heat]: Just now wait who`s paying twice you or the record cartels?

Ken: The record labels. They think they`re footing the bill twice. Once for the one that they`ve sold, and once for the one that they could`ve sold. That`s their argument. You pay for the one you broke.

[Stolen apples and broken lights? Geez, these crazy Irish guys. But I agree with them. And I LOVE them! --- SAVE by catflap!]

catflap: And that`s again, the bootlegging, money changing hands. But the cartels equate a downloaded song or album from a filesharing network with a lost sale.

Ken: That`s just not true.

Paul: No, that`s just not true. But you still actually pay for everything you download anyway, with your internet connection fees and everything.

[We all agree with that even the mostly silent Danny. ]

catflap: Plus, you`re also contributing to the computer industry by buying blank media, computer components

Darren: And electricity. They`re using electricity, and paying for that, too.

catflap: Do The Commitments sell any of their CD`s or songs through online stores like Apple iTunes or anything like that?

All: NO!

catflap: Would you ever do anything like that?

Ken: Well, we`d have to discuss the royalties on it.

[Considering everything we talked about, I doubt that`ll ever happen. Meanwhile, DRM (Digital Rights Management) was also a hot topic, but much of the discussion was unfortunately unintelligible on the tape, due to the fact that it was very late, we were all a bit drunk, and everyone had so much to say about it that we all talked over each other! But it`s accurate to say that The Commitments are against DRM!]

Ken: If you really, really want to hear a song, and can`t download it or find it anywhere, you ring up your local radio station and you say, Please play song `Blah-blah-blah` because my wife`s just had a baby, or We`re getting married, and they`ll play it, and you record it, and that`s it. No-one`s suffering. So there ya go. Is that bootlegging?

catflap: Well, that`s what they call fair use.

Ken: Well, if you get on the internet and get it for free, that`s fair.

[We agree.]

Ken: But you know these internet companies? The internet providers and the content providers? They put a lot of stuff on the internet that they shouldn`t put on the internet. Really illegal stuff. Photographs of victims of sexual acts that shouldn`t be seen like, why don`t they stop that shit, if they wanna be so diligent?

catflap: The head of SONY music says that P2P means `Piracy to Pornography`. Protect the children.

Ken: Yeah? Well they`re not doing enough of that!

Dick: It`s just a smokescreen.

Ken: Of course it is. Every week you hear about, or read in the newspaper, about this trap, or sting, or whatever you wanna call it. These fellas who are downloading stuff that they shouldn`t be. But the internet people are still putting it up or allowing it to be put up. Really nasty shit, but it still gets up there. Surely that`s a crime against humanity! Where downloading a song and not paying a royalty big bloody deal! Ya know? Why don`t they tackle the stuff that`s against nature?

catflap: Thank you for that.

Ken: You know what I mean? If they`re gonna be diligent and slap peoples` wrists, why don`t they do it for something that really means something?

Karen: Damn right they can!

Ken: Some guy, who`s eighteen years old, he`s a student and he likes to have music, and he`s got a bit of brains and he goes, Alright, I can get on there, and go ching-ching-ching, I can download my music, or else I could sit here bored outta my head and download `paedophiliakids` boom, boom, boom oh well that`s ok. I can download a picture of some old man molesting a kid, and that`s for free, and that`s okay. But if I download a song, I`m a criminal.

catflap: They have their priorities all wrong.

[Phew! Quick, change the topic someone!]

Dick: Okay, but people who are into music, and who used to buy LP`s when they were LP`s, vinyls and shit like that, they`re still buying music, but now it`s CD`s. But now people who are into computers are buying computers so they can download their music.

Ken: But what are they doing? Instead of spending their money on CD`s, they`re spending it on computers. Now, instead of having a 5-CD changer, they have a big PC, and an internet connection and a modem. So they`re not saving a lot of money. You don`t see the computer companies saying, Yeah, yeah give those musicians their royalties. Ching ching ching Microsoft, etc they`re going, Get yourself a new modem. You can download like 3Gazillion megabytes in a half a second, which means that you can get all the music you want. But remember what I said about these companies. They should be tackling all this illegal pornographic shit. That`s what they should be doing.

catflap: So basically, in a nutshell, let people do what they want with filesharing music and films since they aren`t hurting anybody. Go after the paedophiles and them. You aren`t losing any money, you`re gaining fans, you`re getting free exposure, you`re an independent label

Dick: I agree. Unless it just gets rampant where everybody`s just downloading loads and loads and not buying anything, but that`s never gonna happen. And peddling of music has been going on for years, people have always been lending each other CD`s and copying them. And I don`t think the internet filesharing hurts anyone.

catflap: People are being sued in the UK by American companies who have no jurisdiction there. Last week, you might have heard, a bunch of Irish people were threatened with lawsuits that they couldn`t possibly afford to pay for —

All: Yeah.

catflap: — and they were blackmailed into paying up to 6,000 Euros for downloading songs or films.

[Unfortunately at this point, the tape ran out and I didn`t flip it over in time to catch everything that was said. Remember, we`d had a bit to drink! But needless to say, The Commitments are against this sue `em all campaign being waged by the cartels against innocent people in every country that they illegally invade with their bogus threats of lawsuits and ultimate and disgusting - blackmail and shakedown tactics. And that was basically the end of the interview, so you aren`t missing anything.]

I had a wonderful time this past week with all of the members of The Commitments. I`d like to thank them here publicly for all of their time, for being so gracious in helping me with this article, and for warmly accepting me and considering me their friend.

Words can`t describe how happy I was to be in their company. They just can`t.

Thank you, Commitments (and Commitment-ettes)! You really are a special group of talented people! Karen, Claire, Ken, Dick, Darren, Danny, Joe, Dano, Serge, and Paul: I wish you all continued success wherever you go, and I know we`ll meet up again. It`s already booked! Love to you all. See you soon.

And as a special gift – exclusive only to p2pnet readers – The Commitments have specially chosen a track forus to host for free from their new live album entitled Committed to Soul.

Audio clip: Adobe Flash Player (version 9 or above) is required to play this audio clip. Download the latest version here. You also need to have JavaScript enabled in your browser.

features the beautiful soulful sounds of Karen Coleman, together in a duet with Dennis Edwards of The Temptations fame. The entire album is only available through The Commitments official website www.thecommitments.net . Or if you search the P2P networks, you`ll find all of their albums, including the new one for free! They don`t mind!

The Commitments are: Ken McCluskey, Dick Massey, Karen Coleman, Claire Malone, Joe Walsh, Serge Stavila, Darren Hanley, Dan Healy, Dano Rooney, Michael Aherne.

Please visit The Commitments official website and look around, or leave a message. They read all of their messages and emails themselves. And for lovers of cool jazz, funk, and rock, please also check out Serge Stavila`s website. This guy is smooooooth!

catflap — p2pnet

[You mean you haven't seen the movie? Where have you been? Rent it, or find it online - Ed ; ]

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unlike some – Catflap to Sheryl Crow, p2pnet, May 11, 2005

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