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	<title>Comments on: eDonkey throws in the towel</title>
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		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/6408/comment-page-1#comment-22776</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-22776</guid>
		<description>I think you have misunderstood some of the principles. There is no &#039;authorization&#039; or &#039;censoring&#039; in the Rights Office system. Anyone can send anything. They just have to be responsible for what they transfer.

a) If the content is already identified they can just transfer it.

b) If it is new content, not previously identified, they have to attach a valid identifier before it enters the system. No one is authorizing this. (In an extreme case, if no Rights Office will grant them an ID, they can just set up their own Rights Office to do it.)

&quot;Like in real life, only way to restrict it is to associate people&#039;s behaviour with physically existence and have corresponding penalty and award.&quot; This is what the Rights Office system does accept now the physical existence is the ‘identifier’ not a ‘physical copy’. The identifier binds real life with Internet life.

(Apologies for the delay in replying.)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you have misunderstood some of the principles. There is no &#8216;authorization&#8217; or &#8216;censoring&#8217; in the Rights Office system. Anyone can send anything. They just have to be responsible for what they transfer.</p>
<p>a) If the content is already identified they can just transfer it.</p>
<p>b) If it is new content, not previously identified, they have to attach a valid identifier before it enters the system. No one is authorizing this. (In an extreme case, if no Rights Office will grant them an ID, they can just set up their own Rights Office to do it.)</p>
<p>&#8220;Like in real life, only way to restrict it is to associate people&#8217;s behaviour with physically existence and have corresponding penalty and award.&#8221; This is what the Rights Office system does accept now the physical existence is the ‘identifier’ not a ‘physical copy’. The identifier binds real life with Internet life.</p>
<p>(Apologies for the delay in replying.)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/6408/comment-page-1#comment-22157</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Oct 2005 19:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-22157</guid>
		<description>It is not possible to ask the end users to submit everything they want to transfer for &quot;authorization&quot; or &quot;censoring&quot;. Even Patriots Act does not require this. Like in real life, only way to restrict it is to associate people&#039;s behavior with physically existence and have corresponding penalty and award. So far, the efforts of binding real life with internet life are far from successful. Only based on this, there could be possibly copyright management. 

P2P is an efficient way for internet data transfer and technically there is no room for content censoring module. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not possible to ask the end users to submit everything they want to transfer for &#8220;authorization&#8221; or &#8220;censoring&#8221;. Even Patriots Act does not require this. Like in real life, only way to restrict it is to associate people&#8217;s behavior with physically existence and have corresponding penalty and award. So far, the efforts of binding real life with internet life are far from successful. Only based on this, there could be possibly copyright management. </p>
<p>P2P is an efficient way for internet data transfer and technically there is no room for content censoring module.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/6408/comment-page-1#comment-21197</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2005 18:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21197</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the good questions.

RW&gt; Such a system would be fine for certain collectives of rights-holders. But such a program would be crippled compared to current programs, and would not likely have public appeal.

The Rights Office (RO) system would be useful for collectives or collecting societies and would only enhance their operations not cripple them in my view.

RW&gt; What about content that chooses not to use your scheme?

True, content not using the RO scheme would potentially be left out in the cold or rather in the position it is now. However, if there were no cost to applying the ID&#039;s to free and public domain material and privacy / anonymity was ensured for legal content would this not attract a lot of content into the scheme where P2P can be used to maximum advantage?

RW&gt; Many people who choose to publish anything would agree that it should never be a requirement that content be &#039;properly identifiable&#039; before it can be published, because it is undemocratic, and reduces the author&#039;s control.

I agree that it should not be a requirement that the author be identified. People could still produce anonymous content as they do now it just couldn&#039;t enter the RO-P2P system that way. The RO system does offer two possibilities in this area though;

1) Someone else could enter the content into the system - say a journalist reporting politically sensitive material.
2) The ID&#039;s in the RO system are opaque as far as identifying the author is concerned therefore if the Rights Office involved in issuing the ID can be trusted many users could publish legal content anonymously. I see this as a step forward.

RW&gt; Especially so for controversial or arguably illegal stuff. 

The system can&#039;t handle illegal stuff. If it is illegal it is illegal. The idea here is to try and find a compromise where much more stuff will become legal to share to a certain extent.

RW&gt; Under your scheme, the licensing authority could easily be co-opted to protect rights holders to a far greater degree than is legally necessary or just.

The &#039;licensing authority&#039;, the Rights Office in this scheme, is acting for the right holder but only to the degree supported by copyright law. The big advantage of this scheme is that there a many other Rights Offices acting for all the other users of the content right down to the consumer and all the rights are clearly defined. In fact I am proposing that consumers are granted actual rights and not just relying on limitations (fair use, first sale) to the right holder’s rights.

Nicholas Bentley</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the good questions.</p>
<p>RW&gt; Such a system would be fine for certain collectives of rights-holders. But such a program would be crippled compared to current programs, and would not likely have public appeal.</p>
<p>The Rights Office (RO) system would be useful for collectives or collecting societies and would only enhance their operations not cripple them in my view.</p>
<p>RW&gt; What about content that chooses not to use your scheme?</p>
<p>True, content not using the RO scheme would potentially be left out in the cold or rather in the position it is now. However, if there were no cost to applying the ID&#8217;s to free and public domain material and privacy / anonymity was ensured for legal content would this not attract a lot of content into the scheme where P2P can be used to maximum advantage?</p>
<p>RW&gt; Many people who choose to publish anything would agree that it should never be a requirement that content be &#8216;properly identifiable&#8217; before it can be published, because it is undemocratic, and reduces the author&#8217;s control.</p>
<p>I agree that it should not be a requirement that the author be identified. People could still produce anonymous content as they do now it just couldn&#8217;t enter the RO-P2P system that way. The RO system does offer two possibilities in this area though;</p>
<p>1) Someone else could enter the content into the system &#8211; say a journalist reporting politically sensitive material.<br />
2) The ID&#8217;s in the RO system are opaque as far as identifying the author is concerned therefore if the Rights Office involved in issuing the ID can be trusted many users could publish legal content anonymously. I see this as a step forward.</p>
<p>RW&gt; Especially so for controversial or arguably illegal stuff. </p>
<p>The system can&#8217;t handle illegal stuff. If it is illegal it is illegal. The idea here is to try and find a compromise where much more stuff will become legal to share to a certain extent.</p>
<p>RW&gt; Under your scheme, the licensing authority could easily be co-opted to protect rights holders to a far greater degree than is legally necessary or just.</p>
<p>The &#8216;licensing authority&#8217;, the Rights Office in this scheme, is acting for the right holder but only to the degree supported by copyright law. The big advantage of this scheme is that there a many other Rights Offices acting for all the other users of the content right down to the consumer and all the rights are clearly defined. In fact I am proposing that consumers are granted actual rights and not just relying on limitations (fair use, first sale) to the right holder’s rights.</p>
<p>Nicholas Bentley</p>
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		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/6408/comment-page-1#comment-21187</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21187</guid>
		<description>RIAA/MPAA shoots themselves in the foot (again). Instead of embracing and using the tech for profit, they&#039;ve simply used bully-boy tactics to threaten friendly companies out of business.

The result is that once again there will be a forced evolution of more distributed, encrypted networks that will be impossible to trace, or track, with no identifiable developer to deal with or prosecute. 

The industry cartels may see a short term victory, but in reality they are creating a problem that will kill them in the not-too-distant future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RIAA/MPAA shoots themselves in the foot (again). Instead of embracing and using the tech for profit, they&#8217;ve simply used bully-boy tactics to threaten friendly companies out of business.</p>
<p>The result is that once again there will be a forced evolution of more distributed, encrypted networks that will be impossible to trace, or track, with no identifiable developer to deal with or prosecute. </p>
<p>The industry cartels may see a short term victory, but in reality they are creating a problem that will kill them in the not-too-distant future.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/6408/comment-page-1#comment-21157</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2005 04:21:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21157</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s really sad is the point Mr. Yagan made earlier in his address. That if indeed billions of files are traded daily or monthly by unauthorized means (P2P for example) it leaves one to ask: Where the heck is the suits when they could be capitalizing off this? Let&#039;s reason here; why is it that the RIAA especially, but the MPAA and others are spending exhorbiant amounts of money pushing litigation against 12 year olds and 90 year olds in extreme cases, but don&#039;t think, in all their wisdom and millions already expended, that that money could be better served and used to nurture a free+pay system where you would offer somethings free and thus lure the customer in for the pay products and services. Of course many will still flock to free services simply because nobody today is happy to pay $20 for a CD that costs only .35 to make and .10 more to market per CD. Not only that but then you are also paying all that money for mostly filler and junk. If it were like greatest hits or compilations, people would bite. The rebellion against the entertainment industry is not to say in one voice that we all want everythign free. very few even think that. The voice of the majority are saying, &quot;If you want me to spend that much money, considering everything else I have to buy, you better give me a good damn reason to spend that much because filler and cheesy racy movies won&#039;t cut it.&quot;

if the Industries get off their butts and show that litigation isn&#039;t the only word and lifestyle they know, people would probably listen. But as typical of that Industry, it will continue the road it goes and thus, so will P2P untilt he day comes when P2P becomes virtually impossible to trace, litigate or what have you. And it is already happening. Good luck to the Industry. They had it easy to prosecute thus far. From here on out, things will get much worse for them and I shed no tears for a business more concerned with it&#039;s profits than it&#039;s so-called valued consumers. DOWN WITH THE RIAA/MPAA/BSA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s really sad is the point Mr. Yagan made earlier in his address. That if indeed billions of files are traded daily or monthly by unauthorized means (P2P for example) it leaves one to ask: Where the heck is the suits when they could be capitalizing off this? Let&#8217;s reason here; why is it that the RIAA especially, but the MPAA and others are spending exhorbiant amounts of money pushing litigation against 12 year olds and 90 year olds in extreme cases, but don&#8217;t think, in all their wisdom and millions already expended, that that money could be better served and used to nurture a free+pay system where you would offer somethings free and thus lure the customer in for the pay products and services. Of course many will still flock to free services simply because nobody today is happy to pay $20 for a CD that costs only .35 to make and .10 more to market per CD. Not only that but then you are also paying all that money for mostly filler and junk. If it were like greatest hits or compilations, people would bite. The rebellion against the entertainment industry is not to say in one voice that we all want everythign free. very few even think that. The voice of the majority are saying, &#8220;If you want me to spend that much money, considering everything else I have to buy, you better give me a good damn reason to spend that much because filler and cheesy racy movies won&#8217;t cut it.&#8221;</p>
<p>if the Industries get off their butts and show that litigation isn&#8217;t the only word and lifestyle they know, people would probably listen. But as typical of that Industry, it will continue the road it goes and thus, so will P2P untilt he day comes when P2P becomes virtually impossible to trace, litigate or what have you. And it is already happening. Good luck to the Industry. They had it easy to prosecute thus far. From here on out, things will get much worse for them and I shed no tears for a business more concerned with it&#8217;s profits than it&#8217;s so-called valued consumers. DOWN WITH THE RIAA/MPAA/BSA.</p>
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		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/6408/comment-page-1#comment-21145</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2005 01:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21145</guid>
		<description>Such a system would be fine for certain collectives of rights-holders. But such a program would be crippled compared to current programs, and would not likely have public appeal.

What about content that chooses not to use your scheme?

Many people who choose to publish anything would agree that it should never be a requirement that content be &#039;properly identifiable&#039; before it can be published, because it is undemocratic, and reduces the author&#039;s control. Especially so for controversial or arguably illegal stuff. This also runs into the problem of settling arguments. How would you settle disputes where one author wishes to deny another the opportunity to use your scheme? Right now, the first author publishes, and the complainant may sue: which is how things should be done. Under your scheme, the licensing authority could easily be co-opted to protect rights holders to a far greater degree than is legally necessary or just.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Such a system would be fine for certain collectives of rights-holders. But such a program would be crippled compared to current programs, and would not likely have public appeal.</p>
<p>What about content that chooses not to use your scheme?</p>
<p>Many people who choose to publish anything would agree that it should never be a requirement that content be &#8216;properly identifiable&#8217; before it can be published, because it is undemocratic, and reduces the author&#8217;s control. Especially so for controversial or arguably illegal stuff. This also runs into the problem of settling arguments. How would you settle disputes where one author wishes to deny another the opportunity to use your scheme? Right now, the first author publishes, and the complainant may sue: which is how things should be done. Under your scheme, the licensing authority could easily be co-opted to protect rights holders to a far greater degree than is legally necessary or just.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/6408/comment-page-1#comment-21131</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 21:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21131</guid>
		<description>A good way to avoid the inducement charge would be to know that all copies being passed over the P2P network were legal. The Rights Office  system [1] ensures that all properly identified content is legal. Hence the P2P provider could avoid all charges of inducing illegal uses if they only transfered identified content.

Are there any P2P providers who would like to discuss this?

Nicholas Bentley
http://www.commonrights.com

[1] http://p2pnet.net/story/6358</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good way to avoid the inducement charge would be to know that all copies being passed over the P2P network were legal. The Rights Office  system [1] ensures that all properly identified content is legal. Hence the P2P provider could avoid all charges of inducing illegal uses if they only transfered identified content.</p>
<p>Are there any P2P providers who would like to discuss this?</p>
<p>Nicholas Bentley<br />
<a href="http://www.commonrights.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.commonrights.com</a></p>
<p>[1] <a href="http://p2pnet.net/story/6358" rel="nofollow">http://p2pnet.net/story/6358</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/6408/comment-page-1#comment-21125</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21125</guid>
		<description>If you live near a bunch of other filesharers, start a FreeWan cell.  That way, the **AA&#039;s will have to physically come to your location if they want to try to see wha you are doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you live near a bunch of other filesharers, start a FreeWan cell.  That way, the **AA&#8217;s will have to physically come to your location if they want to try to see wha you are doing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/6408/comment-page-1#comment-21114</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21114</guid>
		<description>And me!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And me!!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/6408/comment-page-1#comment-21113</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21113</guid>
		<description>been using emulesince it appeared , pisses over edonkey - not bothered really</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>been using emulesince it appeared , pisses over edonkey &#8211; not bothered really</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/6408/comment-page-1#comment-21109</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 12:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21109</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a plus actually.  When they killed napster they claimed victory.  P2P sprang up but their problem was they formed corporations for profit and THEN tried to play with the industry.  Now the industry is shutting them down there are all the open source p2p aps that will fill the void.  They&#039;re learning they can&#039;t win by sueing their customers, and with open source they can&#039;t sue any corporations.  they&#039;re making it worse for themselves.  Like pouring water on a grease fire it just spreads.  

Will they never learn??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a plus actually.  When they killed napster they claimed victory.  P2P sprang up but their problem was they formed corporations for profit and THEN tried to play with the industry.  Now the industry is shutting them down there are all the open source p2p aps that will fill the void.  They&#8217;re learning they can&#8217;t win by sueing their customers, and with open source they can&#8217;t sue any corporations.  they&#8217;re making it worse for themselves.  Like pouring water on a grease fire it just spreads.  </p>
<p>Will they never learn??</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/6408/comment-page-1#comment-21107</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21107</guid>
		<description>Oh Very nicely put..Totally agree with U m8 !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh Very nicely put..Totally agree with U m8 !</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/6408/comment-page-1#comment-21094</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21094</guid>
		<description>how do u download what you cant find?  and how can u download files with it if it&#039;s untouchable?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>how do u download what you cant find?  and how can u download files with it if it&#8217;s untouchable?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/6408/comment-page-1#comment-21081</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 06:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21081</guid>
		<description>File sharing will move to open source projects now.

Viva Emule, Azureus, Shareaza, DC++, live long and prosper :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>File sharing will move to open source projects now.</p>
<p>Viva Emule, Azureus, Shareaza, DC++, live long and prosper <img src='http://www.p2pnet.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/6408/comment-page-1#comment-21074</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 05:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21074</guid>
		<description>But, new file sharring groups will pop up... and most wont be touchable by the MPAA, or RIAA...

I can&#039;t beleive so many are giving in... we need something to boost filesharring moral...  some new, big, untouchable, untracable, filesharring program... v.v</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But, new file sharring groups will pop up&#8230; and most wont be touchable by the MPAA, or RIAA&#8230;</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t beleive so many are giving in&#8230; we need something to boost filesharring moral&#8230;  some new, big, untouchable, untracable, filesharring program&#8230; v.v</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/6408/comment-page-1#comment-21068</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2005 04:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21068</guid>
		<description>I do. @$$H0LE5!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do. @$$H0LE5!!!!</p>
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