WE’RE NOT CHINA! Taiwan
p2p news / p2pnet:- Taiwan, the sovereign, independent state officially called the Republic of China, wants Google to stop calling it a "province of China" on Google Maps.
“China views Taiwan as a breakaway province and has threatened to attack the island of 23 million people if it pushes for formal statehood,” says Reuters, going on to quote foreign ministry spokesman Michel Lu as saying:
“"It is incorrect to call Taiwan a province of China because we are not. We have contacted Google to express our position and asked them to correct the description."
The Taiwan Solidarity Union has urged the public to write a protest email to Google, demanding the search engine describe Taiwan as "an independent state in Asia," says Reuters.
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See:-
Reuters – Taiwan tells Google it is not a China province, October 4, 2005
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October 6th, 2005 at 6:03 pm
Taiwan is not China. Its been independent historicy more and if you cout the nothern island kingdoms owned by Japan more than China. Thomas Jordan -Roseville CA.
October 6th, 2005 at 7:28 pm
The license plates for vehicles on Taiwan still say “Taiwan Province”
Republic of China, Taiwan still has a provincial government structure in place.
There is ambiguity in whether Google is referring to People’s Republic of China or Republic of China. But that is just the political reality of what Google has to work with.
There should be some clarification on Googles part to make the distinction between PRC and ROC.
October 6th, 2005 at 10:14 pm
When does a country need to state they are a country six times a day?!! Its when they are not!
Since time immemorial Taiwan has been a part of China. Which is why they still call themselves the “Republic of China”.
October 7th, 2005 at 12:11 am
“China” is not an official country name. It is only used informally and isn’t specific. So in terms of geography and mapping of the “real world”, the name “China isn’t” sufficient.
The reality is that the 1949 civil war never really ended. The communist government took power on the mainland and declared their new country as “People’s Republic of China” or PRC. The existing national government moved to Taiwan where the country known as the “Republic of China” continues today. They just haven’t accepted each other, and in fact have remained 100% independent and separate, sovereign states. This is the reality. Maps should represent reality, not desires or fantasy.
The simple solution is for Google Maps to refer to each side by their official names, PRC for the communist nation on the mainland, and ROC for the democratic nation on Taiwan.
October 7th, 2005 at 1:21 am
“Since time immemorial”? Right, uh-huh. Throw around phrases like that and you just might get people to accept them. Worked in for 1.2 billion on the mainland, right?
Which “time immemorial”? The Republic of China is only 94 years old. Back in 1895, the Qing ceded Taiwan to the Japanese (so, technically not part of China, and that’s just about a century ago …) Before that, the Qing had only started governing the place for a few decades at most. Before that, ethnic Chinese migration had only gone on for a couple of hundred years. What modern Chinese want to claim as “historical China” grew and shifted around different river valleys of the mainland, and never included the very peripheral Taiwan. Why don’t you ask the indigenous Austronesian tribes on the island if they’ve been part of “China” “since time immemorial”?
You can argue the current modern politics, but don’t blithely brush over the history.
October 7th, 2005 at 1:37 am
Very nicely written. I totally agree.
China keep throwing the “time immemorial” argument to claim surrounding lands. They use it to justify occupation of Tibet and Shin-Jian area as well.
When China ceded Taiwan to Japan. They didn’t care much for the poor agrarian island.
When Chiang lost to the Communist, he retreated a seperate government to the island. Although you could argue both sides are still at war… it is obvious Taiwanese want to remain a seperate country.
Taiwan (similarly like Chinese hatred toward Japan) is fueled by the Communist Party to divert internal conflict by targeting an outside scapegoat.
October 7th, 2005 at 2:14 am
hahahaha it’s obvious Taiwanese wants to remain a seperate country? you mean the measly 2%? good job on statistics.
Taiwan never declared formal independence, only 26 countries recognize Taiwan as a country, 25 of which are so insignificant the only reason they DO support Taiwan is because Taiwan pays them money to. It’s really pathetic, buying your way to recognition. Face it, even the so called “closest” ally of Taiwan – U.S. don’t recognize it. Please don’t throw around idiotic statements saying it’s a seperate country when most of the world thinks it’s not.
October 7th, 2005 at 3:47 am
Before that, the Qing had only started governing the place for a few decades at most.
/ Nope. Try a few hundred years.
Why don’t you ask the indigenous Austronesian tribes on the island if they’ve been part of “China” “since time immemorial”?
/ Why don’t you ask your family why they had to come to Taiwan, steal the land of Austronesian tribes and claimed it for China in the first place?
You can argue the current modern politics, but don’t blithely brush over the history.
/ Like you did?
October 7th, 2005 at 5:55 am
Well, if Taiwan would pay a sum of money to have all the maps in the world changed then I think it would be different.
October 7th, 2005 at 6:01 am
Isn’t it funny Taiwan’s leaders have to reiterate they are a “country” 80 times a day. (When no one in this world recognize them; there is not even a consensus among the people who live in Taiwan.)
Who does that?! And why?!
October 7th, 2005 at 6:19 am
Low class clowns, obviously. Because they are low class clowns.
October 7th, 2005 at 7:36 am
All of this boils down to some simple realities:
1. The 1949 civil war never truly ended. After 1949 the communist revolutionarie declared a new country, which they called the People’s Republic of China (PRC), but their governance never extended to Taiwan, where the ROC remains today a sovereign entity.
2. The PRC does not like or accept the existence of the ROC, while the ROC does not accept being part of the PRC. Nevertheless, it is a reality that both the PRC and ROC exist today.
3. The term “China” is not an official country name, although today its commonly used to refer to the PRC, just as Taiwan is commonly used to refer to the ROC. The real-world existence of the PRC and ROC as separate states means that one cannot use the term “China” without introducing ambiguity and uncertainty about the intended meaning. “Korea” is a case in point, since to be clear one must distinguish between North Korea and South Korea, or use their official country names, which are different just as ROC and PRC are different.
4. The ultimate solution is for the two nations (PRC and ROC) to reconcile their differences among themselves through peaceful discussions. Over time, if the PRC would begin to give its citizens the same freedoms the ROC citizens gained with the establishment of a democratic system, there would be less differences to overcome and the ROC and PRC might become unify to become simply “China”. In the meantime Google should not distort the reality of world geography by referring to the ROC, or Taiwan, as simply a “province of China”, which as explained above, is both meaningless and wrong.
October 7th, 2005 at 7:50 am
All of this boils down to some simple realities:
1. The 1949 civil war never truly ended. After 1949 the communist revolutionarie declared a new country, which they called the People’s Republic of China (PRC), but their governance never extended to Taiwan, where the ROC remains today a sovereign entity.
2. The PRC does not like or accept the existence of the ROC, while the ROC does not accept being part of the PRC. Nevertheless, it is a reality that both the PRC and ROC exist today.
3. The term “China” is not an official country name, although today its commonly used to refer to the PRC, just as Taiwan is commonly used to refer to the ROC. The real-world existence of the PRC and ROC as separate states means that one cannot use the term “China” without introducing ambiguity and uncertainty about the intended meaning. “Korea” is a case in point, since to be clear one must distinguish between North Korea and South Korea, or use their official country names, which are different just as ROC and PRC are different.
4. The ultimate solution is for the two nations (PRC and ROC) to reconcile their differences among themselves through peaceful discussions. Over time, when the PRC allows its citizens the same freedoms the ROC citizens gained with the establishment of a democratic system, there would be less differences to overcome and the ROC and PRC might become unify to become simply “China”. In the meantime Google should not distort the reality of world geography by referring to the ROC, or Taiwan, as simply a “province of China”, which as explained above, is both meaningless and wrong.
October 7th, 2005 at 8:10 am
Well, fortunately, most maps already distiguish the communist Peoples Republic of China from the democratic Republic of China or Taiwan (unless the map is published in Peoples Republic of China). So there is no need to change most existing maps.
This whole issue with Google Earth or Google Maps came up because Google has, for obvious reasons (read business opportunities) described Taiwan in in a way that is different from the norm, and biased toward the wishes of the communist PRC.
October 7th, 2005 at 8:20 am
Well, actually, the republic of China (ROC or Taiwan) didn’t need to declare independence. It just continued its existence as a separate and independent state. Remember, the ROC predates the PRC. THe PRC came to existence through a revolution by the communists on the mainland, who still control the mainland. But the PRC never, ever controlled or governed Taiwan, where the ROC remains a sovereign state. Its that simple.
October 7th, 2005 at 8:28 am
That is clear explanation and makes sense. Communist party always independent from Taiwan, never controls Taiwan. This is good for because Taiwan could be place for real Chinese culture to survive. Real history and culture of chinese people was destroyed by communists in the Cultural revolution in 1960′s. Very terrible time for my parents. Taiwan kept spirit, and good manners of chinese culture alive. I know this because I often travel between both places. Somtimes I think mainland people lost their good chinese character. Communists must be blamed for this.
October 7th, 2005 at 8:51 am
Actually, its correct and valid to turn this logic around and say “Why do the Communist Party authorities on the mainland keep having to declare that ‘Taiwan belongs to us’ every 5 minutes’?, when if one sees reality, they have no role in Taiwan whatsoever!
Taiwan is completely sovereign with its own(democratic) government, its own national military… the list goes on. When citizens of other nations visit Taiwan, they apply to the ROC government for a visa, not from the communist authorities in Beijing.
And yes, thank for your acknowledging the “Republic of China’, the nation on Taiwan that, before the communist revolution, governed the mainland too. The ROC still exists today. If you want to visit, you are welcome to apply for a visitors visa!
October 7th, 2005 at 8:55 am
bullshit you think you are so free with your democratic ways. you have no say in the govening of your country. Sure you can vote, but can you be a candidate? Where do they come from, who backs them?
October 7th, 2005 at 9:03 am
It would be like applying to Pyongyang for a visa to visit Seoul. “But the official in Pyongyang assured me that Seoul is part of Korea!” Sorry, the immigration agent at the border might not agree, and back you go to Pyongyang.
October 7th, 2005 at 11:10 am
Citizens of ROC on Taiwan do appreciate the freedoms that come with the democratic system, that is why they don’t accept being under the control of the Communist party on the mainland. You already know of many examples. One concerns to freedom of access to information. Its understood by all that the Beijing authorities choose to block so many websites that have opinions that disagree the offical communist party policy. They seem to be afraid of free speech, because they don’t trust their own people, they are just afraid of losing their own power. But years ago the people couldn’t have capitalism, but its reigns supreme today in the PRC (who would have guess that during the cultural revolution?!). Over time, PRC citizens may seek additional freedoms, including the freedom to express their opinions even if they differ from the communist party policy. This is not bad, it is good!
October 7th, 2005 at 11:17 am
If Google would call the ROC the ROC and call the PRC the PRC, there would indeed be no problem. But to ignore the ROC and say Taiwan is part of the PRC, is wrong and misleading.
PRC is very different from ROC. Separate countries, separate passports, separate armies, different mindsets!
October 7th, 2005 at 11:20 am
Different flags, too! Look at the pictures of two different national flags for Taiwan and PRC on the article.
October 7th, 2005 at 11:27 am
Well, it wouldn’t be so great to be under the control of those communist party people all the time. In that sense, democracy seems better.
A famous pro-unification writer and politician from Taiwan visited Beida recently, and told everybody that the communists should loosen up a bit. They’re so cold-faced and serious! No sense of humor! Of course the party members and officials on the stage didn’t even smile or grin. Just blank looks (maybe afraid!). It was live on TV on the mainland, so many could see it, but later the blocked it and it couldn’t be shown again. I saw it live on TV in Shanghai.
October 7th, 2005 at 3:20 pm
Sure I can vote and I can also be a candidate if I choose to run for office. I can give a speech and express my opinion without being put in jail, which is what happens in the mainland China communism country. That is the most serious problem in the mainland China communism country, people are scared to say what they think, or they be put in jail because don’t agree with communist party.
October 7th, 2005 at 3:35 pm
Did they?
October 7th, 2005 at 3:46 pm
Well, we can only speculate, but the evidence does suggest they did. Profit motive is strong.
October 7th, 2005 at 3:46 pm
you think you can just give a speech? You think the sky is blue? Without the backing of large sums of money, who is going to listen to your speech my friend?
October 7th, 2005 at 3:48 pm
of course, silly, it doesn’t take big bunch of money to give speech. People do it often. And they don’t go to jail!
October 7th, 2005 at 3:49 pm
ALthought the democracy allows for free speech, all that speech is very confusing and the public will be so bored after all those speeches that they just don’t care anymore. Some may care, but they are just biased and confused.
October 7th, 2005 at 3:51 pm
Western person is like big nose crazy man. Chinamen have best country system. Only truth. We know its good. We like it much.
October 7th, 2005 at 3:52 pm
government is motherfucking! They are a group of pricks who gets it up by controlling others. All government = faggot! No one really wants to fuck another guy in the ass or suck his dick, but someone’s gotta do it.
October 7th, 2005 at 3:58 pm
yeah you can give a speech… so what?
October 7th, 2005 at 3:59 pm
profit is everything fuker
October 7th, 2005 at 4:01 pm
That’s true! My Shanghai colleagues were amazed at what they saw and heard the Taiwanese speaker at Beida say on TV. They couldn’t beleive they would allow him to speak directly and freely like that. They turned out to be correct, and the broadcast was blocked and the press wasn’t allows to report on it.
The mainlanders aren’t quite ready for too much openness yet. Need to start slowly, until they can keep up with the ideas. Now they are just accustomed to those bland-faced party people give the same old propaganda talks all the time. I always feel sorry for them. At least the have some hope for the future. My young Shanghai friends are quite optimistic, and really don’t like those old Communist Party members very much. They mostly think about a bigger salary.
October 7th, 2005 at 4:01 pm
no loves you!
go suck a don!
October 7th, 2005 at 4:03 pm
wtf are you saying shit face?
October 7th, 2005 at 4:06 pm
i’d love you if you agree with me. if not i will think of more ridiculing things to say to you.
October 7th, 2005 at 4:06 pm
i am gay and am very hurt by your comments
October 7th, 2005 at 4:09 pm
why would you want to go back to pyongyang? dumbass
October 7th, 2005 at 4:11 pm
“read business oppprtunities” what do you mean?
October 7th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
True, even that guy Dung Shao Ping said “to be rich is glorious!”. Profit rule the world. Yeah!
October 7th, 2005 at 4:12 pm
wtf are you doing motherfukker?
October 7th, 2005 at 4:14 pm
Chinamen say go home! Big nose crazy people stay out.
October 7th, 2005 at 4:17 pm
thanx for agreeing i dub you readesane.
did monkeyball fall off the band wagon? reader who is sane fukker
October 7th, 2005 at 4:20 pm
what the fuk are you talking about you fucking hic cousin banging neck reddin dickwad, lick my wok coksuka
October 7th, 2005 at 4:20 pm
yea, so what?
October 7th, 2005 at 4:22 pm
you reading this? so waht?
October 7th, 2005 at 4:25 pm
it is sad how government made up by dics bicker. the dics should be flown to an island and then nukd
October 7th, 2005 at 5:18 pm
Does anybody really think its about “commies”?
October 7th, 2005 at 8:10 pm
not about commoes
October 8th, 2005 at 12:17 am
Chinamen best to moneymakers, big nose crazyman western people not so good, so we very like the profit and best country of world in future. You see at olimpics in 2008. You see you big nose western crazyman.
October 8th, 2005 at 12:27 am
Chinamen country great and do not need the speech of freedom. Trust in the country only good. Best is the moneymaker system. It make rich life and buy many best things. Chinamen want western big nose crazy person people stay home. Go away, you not wanted. THis is true from us.
October 8th, 2005 at 2:45 am
Let us differentiate La New TAIWAN Rep(r)o(c)–might be false little china with La New CHINA PRep–REAL China for aorund the world. The fish is fish and the shrimp is shrimp like the apple is apple and orange is orange.
There are not few countries that their long country name are used to abbreviated as short and easy America English country name.
It is problem of abbreviation and short country name of long country name. For example, Le Confoederatio Helvetica is used to abbreviated as Swiss or Switerland [.ch].
In this age of globalization using American English,
let abbreviate our country[ChongHuá MÃnGuó] is OK in English not China], La New TAIWAN Rep(r)o(c) as TAIWAN [.tw] in all of your documents’, signatures, namecards, letterheads…
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comment: A little professor from TAIWAN Rep(r)o(c)
+++Le non petite island country [36K km2/top 80/193?] with big population [23 millions/top 40 of 193?].
October 8th, 2005 at 3:06 am
Moneymaker system is great of all. Us chinamen best of world of moneymaker system. New country of us is best and good for moneymaker us people and everyone even small city chinamen, not only big city. We be happy with our new moneymaker system. big nose western crazyman go home.
October 8th, 2005 at 4:00 am
Oui, every documnent should call PRC the PRC and the ROC the ROC, and not mix up by using the CHina short name. Short name just for abbrevation and not document like passport and so on. If use China on document, just big trouble and mix up for all people. Better use ROC and PRC so no confusion then in the global world of moderne today.
October 8th, 2005 at 12:20 pm
please go home and learn to write correct english then come back.
October 8th, 2005 at 12:25 pm
I do not understand many your words. Is this words English words? I do not see words in English diction book. What language not English?
October 8th, 2005 at 12:41 pm
Like Taiwan or ROC is apples and PRC is oranges, so not mix the apples and oranges, keep separate for better no confusion today. Better not to mix the apples and the oranges, otherwise make like crazyman fruit drink. dui dui dumb!
October 8th, 2005 at 2:35 pm
Google no sell out but Google buy in.
October 8th, 2005 at 2:42 pm
Google does good moneymaker plan in new moneymaker system. Good and great business for new money and jobs too. best big bizness in this way. no troubble with the Hu Jintao and cronie people in beijing. Better just do the business, no worry with the Taiwan people on small island. We no need those old brothers on the island. they go different way than us. who cares we do not need those brothers. good bye forgotten. Like western big nose crazyman say goodbye go away now. We do not want you and do not like for you. sorry its truth of us.
October 8th, 2005 at 2:48 pm
This words in English words? I do not see this words in englishd diction book! Different language words?
October 8th, 2005 at 2:59 pm
Should we abbreviate PRC as CHMG and not PRC? ChongHuá MÃnGuó is too hard in english so we can just use CHMG. Then no problem can always know difference from Taiwan or ROC. But maybe only few people know what is CHMG. So we should keep to use the PRC on papers and official stuff and in the news papers and the tv shows all around world.
October 9th, 2005 at 2:57 am
Bully commentary like you. English worldis no room for you to say. Chinglish? It is freedom of speech, no bully Chink to bully here. Please go to ChinCommie Forum.
October 9th, 2005 at 3:03 am
Waht is bully commentary like yours!. English world has always had no room for you to say. Chinglish? It is the freedom of speech, no bully Chink exclusively to bully here. Please go to ChinCommie Forum, if you can not learn no bully chink’s way.
What is your good bully Chinglish? Go commie go no heaven ot go to see Ma and Mao to learn useless bulliness?
In summ, let all of other friend with good behaviors EXCHANGE good ideas rather than bully chinglish way.
October 9th, 2005 at 4:14 am
What is a bully commentary like yours!. English world has always had no room for you to say. Chinglish? It is the freedom of speech, no bully Chink exclusively to bully here. Please go to other Chink Commie forum, if you can not learn no bully chink’s way.
What is your good bully Chinglish? Go commie go no heaven ot go to see Ma and Mao to learn useless bulliness?
In summ, let all of other friend with good behaviors EXCHANGE good ideas rather than bully chinglish did here.
October 9th, 2005 at 5:23 am
>>no troubble with the Hu Jintao and cronie people in beijing. Better just do the business, no worry with the Taiwan people on small island.<<
Keep business away off the big brothers of the biggest dictator in the world–Hu rather than the greatest people of non-petite island freedom country. Businessmen should do something other than make money only.
Money (profiteer) or monkey businessmen is dirty in the business history in the long term. Is Google another Yahoo buble rooted in this matters now? Think yourselves over and over again everyday like Confucicus [the orient sage of Ruzean not Chinese of Chou Commonwealth] said.
October 9th, 2005 at 3:14 pm
Taiwan is Taiwan, China is China, two different place, two different location with two nations.
October 10th, 2005 at 7:16 am
We say PRC is PRC and ROC is ROC. Like apple and orange. Grow on unlike trees and make different look.