<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: SunnComm Dangerous DRM patch</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.p2pnet.net/story/7235/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/7235</link>
	<description>p2pnet.net - reader powered</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 03:52:19 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/7235/comment-page-1#comment-26066</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Dec 2005 18:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-26066</guid>
		<description>It amazes me to no end what these huge companies with money can get away with. In the end they will probably request a bail out of some sort to cover their butts money wise. Personally I think a huge company such as this or the airlines should not be allowed bailout funds from the governments, but we will see...

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It amazes me to no end what these huge companies with money can get away with. In the end they will probably request a bail out of some sort to cover their butts money wise. Personally I think a huge company such as this or the airlines should not be allowed bailout funds from the governments, but we will see&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/7235/comment-page-1#comment-25982</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 16:53:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-25982</guid>
		<description>Will the 18MB of software install if one is logged in as a non-administrator on a Win2K or WinXP system?  In general, Windows should not allow installation of any software that would impact &#039;All Users&#039; on the target system when performed by a non-administrator.  the installer should not be allowed to make changes in the Global Registry Keys area of the Windows registry either, only the HKEY_Current_User.

Is there a click-through license agreement for this software?

What if your 15 year old child tries to play one of these CDs on the computer?  If these clickable licensing agreements are considered binding contracts, a minor is legally incapable of entering into a binding contract without explicit parental consent in the USA.  The arguement that the parent let them use the computer and thereby implicitly consented will hold absolutely no water.  That&#039;s like saying the parents didn&#039;t lock up all of the matches and therefore consented to a child playing with matches and burning down the neighborhood.

--TurboGeek</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will the 18MB of software install if one is logged in as a non-administrator on a Win2K or WinXP system?  In general, Windows should not allow installation of any software that would impact &#8216;All Users&#8217; on the target system when performed by a non-administrator.  the installer should not be allowed to make changes in the Global Registry Keys area of the Windows registry either, only the HKEY_Current_User.</p>
<p>Is there a click-through license agreement for this software?</p>
<p>What if your 15 year old child tries to play one of these CDs on the computer?  If these clickable licensing agreements are considered binding contracts, a minor is legally incapable of entering into a binding contract without explicit parental consent in the USA.  The arguement that the parent let them use the computer and thereby implicitly consented will hold absolutely no water.  That&#8217;s like saying the parents didn&#8217;t lock up all of the matches and therefore consented to a child playing with matches and burning down the neighborhood.</p>
<p>&#8211;TurboGeek</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/7235/comment-page-1#comment-25939</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 05:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-25939</guid>
		<description>Of course it is! For an individual at least. Bigbiz with lots of money on the other hand might get a fine worth a fraction of one percent of their monthly revenue.

Which i&#039;m sure they&#039;d declare as an expense for tax purposes anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course it is! For an individual at least. Bigbiz with lots of money on the other hand might get a fine worth a fraction of one percent of their monthly revenue.</p>
<p>Which i&#8217;m sure they&#8217;d declare as an expense for tax purposes anyway.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/7235/comment-page-1#comment-25921</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 01:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-25921</guid>
		<description>I sort of agree with the poster that mentioned that SunnComm is now outside the loop of Sony. Sony&#039;s been stung twice now and they are wanting a first time fix that doesn&#039;t have to be repeated. 

I wouldn&#039;t trust Sony not to put more junk into their cds or their patches. As far as I can tell, the very best thing is not to buy cartel products and if you play one the only answer maybe to junk the product  (either by trashing it or saving it on a shelf and downloading it from p2p) and formatting your pc. Now that&#039;s what I call making it difficult for your  customers!

In all of this Sony has been most quite on the spyware/phone home aspect. They have been anything but forthcoming on the abilities of the software installed with these cds. No where in all this does Sony say in the EULA that this sort of software will be installed. However Sony has rewritten their corporate EULA to be seen on their home website. Not only rewritten it but it looks like a childs attempt at getting a report right before turning it in to the teacher. It&#039;s been rewritten over and over. Insertions being put in here and there trying their darnest to either make it go away or to cover their butts with legalise. 

Nothing in the responces of Sony give me any indication that Sony is sorry for anything other than they got caught. Every move Sony has taken, it has been made to take. Even there, no such animal as lets jump out and get it done. 

All this does is demonstrate to me that Sony and the rest of the cartel are not to be trusted. They won&#039;t do anything not in their own best interests. Rarely will their best interests and the customers come together. 

These sort of actions do more for the idea that buying product is rapidly being an antagonistic experience for the customer. Who in their right minds wants something like this? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I sort of agree with the poster that mentioned that SunnComm is now outside the loop of Sony. Sony&#8217;s been stung twice now and they are wanting a first time fix that doesn&#8217;t have to be repeated. </p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t trust Sony not to put more junk into their cds or their patches. As far as I can tell, the very best thing is not to buy cartel products and if you play one the only answer maybe to junk the product  (either by trashing it or saving it on a shelf and downloading it from p2p) and formatting your pc. Now that&#8217;s what I call making it difficult for your  customers!</p>
<p>In all of this Sony has been most quite on the spyware/phone home aspect. They have been anything but forthcoming on the abilities of the software installed with these cds. No where in all this does Sony say in the EULA that this sort of software will be installed. However Sony has rewritten their corporate EULA to be seen on their home website. Not only rewritten it but it looks like a childs attempt at getting a report right before turning it in to the teacher. It&#8217;s been rewritten over and over. Insertions being put in here and there trying their darnest to either make it go away or to cover their butts with legalise. </p>
<p>Nothing in the responces of Sony give me any indication that Sony is sorry for anything other than they got caught. Every move Sony has taken, it has been made to take. Even there, no such animal as lets jump out and get it done. </p>
<p>All this does is demonstrate to me that Sony and the rest of the cartel are not to be trusted. They won&#8217;t do anything not in their own best interests. Rarely will their best interests and the customers come together. </p>
<p>These sort of actions do more for the idea that buying product is rapidly being an antagonistic experience for the customer. Who in their right minds wants something like this?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/7235/comment-page-1#comment-25911</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2005 00:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-25911</guid>
		<description>&quot;...undisclosed installation of over 18 MB of software regardless of whether the user agrees to the End User License Agreement;&quot;

Isn&#039;t this bit plainly against the law in the US?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;undisclosed installation of over 18 MB of software regardless of whether the user agrees to the End User License Agreement;&#8221;</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t this bit plainly against the law in the US?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/7235/comment-page-1#comment-25900</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-25900</guid>
		<description>IMO SunnComm are outside the loop because Sony-BMG have had their fill of them.  They embarrassed Sony-BMG severely with the bugs found in the uninstaller, because they were the same as those found by First4Internet two weeks before. SunnComm should have checked that they didn&#039;t have the same problem, but instead did nothing. It then blew up into a huge scandal when the problem was discovered by others. 

Its the same here. This security exposure is a common issue with novice programmers and no company worth its salt should have left it happen. Yet, it was an outside company that found the exposure and not SunnComm itself. It should not have got by even the most primitive of testing methodologies, yet SunnComm missed it.

You can read Sony-BMG&#039;s frustration with SunnComm by the way they had to get NGS Software to help SunnComm develop the fix and then help them test it.  It must be utter humiliation for SunnComm when your customer doesn&#039;t trust you to get it right yourself and forces you to work with outsiders.

The reason SunnComm are mute on this is because it is just too embarrassing for them. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMO SunnComm are outside the loop because Sony-BMG have had their fill of them.  They embarrassed Sony-BMG severely with the bugs found in the uninstaller, because they were the same as those found by First4Internet two weeks before. SunnComm should have checked that they didn&#8217;t have the same problem, but instead did nothing. It then blew up into a huge scandal when the problem was discovered by others. </p>
<p>Its the same here. This security exposure is a common issue with novice programmers and no company worth its salt should have left it happen. Yet, it was an outside company that found the exposure and not SunnComm itself. It should not have got by even the most primitive of testing methodologies, yet SunnComm missed it.</p>
<p>You can read Sony-BMG&#8217;s frustration with SunnComm by the way they had to get NGS Software to help SunnComm develop the fix and then help them test it.  It must be utter humiliation for SunnComm when your customer doesn&#8217;t trust you to get it right yourself and forces you to work with outsiders.</p>
<p>The reason SunnComm are mute on this is because it is just too embarrassing for them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/7235/comment-page-1#comment-25899</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-25899</guid>
		<description>This all sounds great, but MediaMax V5 has been released on CDs from labels other than Sony-BMG too.  Sony-BMG are alerting purchasers of their CDs, but no one is alerting the others.

It is significant that the announcement of the patch came from Sony-BMG and the EFF.  SunnComm have remained mute.

Instead of alerting the non-Sony CD purchasers, SunnComm would prefer to say nothing in the hope no one will notice.  That is not good enough. They were quick to issue PRs on the spoof piece on the Apple DRM and PRs on suing Halderman, but they are silent now when they should be out helping the CD purchaser fix the problem that SunnComm created.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This all sounds great, but MediaMax V5 has been released on CDs from labels other than Sony-BMG too.  Sony-BMG are alerting purchasers of their CDs, but no one is alerting the others.</p>
<p>It is significant that the announcement of the patch came from Sony-BMG and the EFF.  SunnComm have remained mute.</p>
<p>Instead of alerting the non-Sony CD purchasers, SunnComm would prefer to say nothing in the hope no one will notice.  That is not good enough. They were quick to issue PRs on the spoof piece on the Apple DRM and PRs on suing Halderman, but they are silent now when they should be out helping the CD purchaser fix the problem that SunnComm created.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Reader's Write</title>
		<link>http://www.p2pnet.net/story/7235/comment-page-1#comment-25898</link>
		<dc:creator>Reader's Write</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2005 20:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-25898</guid>
		<description>But this is a real worry from EFF&#039;s FAQ on the problem:

http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/Sony-BMG/mediamaxfaq.php

Are there any more security issues with SunnComm&#039;s MediaMax software?

We don&#039;t know. We have identified one security issue, but there may be others. Even before this vulnerability came to light, security researcher Ed Felten noted &quot;the MediaMax software will still erode security, for reasons stemming from the basic design of the software.&quot; See Freedom to Tinker for more. We urge Sony BMG to undertake rigorous security testing on all of its software, and we will continue to look into this issue. 

Does the patch resolve all the issues with CDs with SunnComm MediaMax software?

No. There are other severe problems with MediaMax discs, including: undisclosed communications with servers Sony controls whenever a consumer plays a MediaMax CD; undisclosed installation of over 18 MB of software regardless of whether the user agrees to the End User License Agreement; and failure to include an uninstaller with the CD. EFF will continue to raise these issues with Sony BMG. 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But this is a real worry from EFF&#8217;s FAQ on the problem:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/Sony-BMG/mediamaxfaq.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/Sony-BMG/mediamaxfaq.php</a></p>
<p>Are there any more security issues with SunnComm&#8217;s MediaMax software?</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t know. We have identified one security issue, but there may be others. Even before this vulnerability came to light, security researcher Ed Felten noted &#8220;the MediaMax software will still erode security, for reasons stemming from the basic design of the software.&#8221; See Freedom to Tinker for more. We urge Sony BMG to undertake rigorous security testing on all of its software, and we will continue to look into this issue. </p>
<p>Does the patch resolve all the issues with CDs with SunnComm MediaMax software?</p>
<p>No. There are other severe problems with MediaMax discs, including: undisclosed communications with servers Sony controls whenever a consumer plays a MediaMax CD; undisclosed installation of over 18 MB of software regardless of whether the user agrees to the End User License Agreement; and failure to include an uninstaller with the CD. EFF will continue to raise these issues with Sony BMG.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
