p2pnet - rss feed: The new Net scourge
p2p news special / p2pnet: Regular p2pnet readers know of my distrust and distaste of the MPAA and RIAA and their bullying tactics, their court-proven lies and deceptions and convictions of monetary theft from performers, directors, and producers, as well as their notorious lamescream lies regarding the “decline” in filesharing due to their “successful” lawsuits against innocent people and corpses.
They contract and hire spies from different industries - and sometimes even whole municipalities (perhaps YOUR OWN TOWN) - to scan filesharing networks, collecting IP addresses with which to blackmail ISPs into giving up names and addresses in order to threaten these innocent people with costly lawsuits.
It makes us all sick.
But there are also other groups out there who track what you do, when you do it and how often. And many p2pers let them, and some even pay these groups to do it. WTF? Who are these groups?
They aren’t release groups. They aren’t in the scene. They’re the admins and owners of elitist BitTorrent tracker websites.
They’re the new Lokis, and they’re getting away with a big scam because people aren’t refusing to use these trackers, and too many are too willing to pay for so-called VIP treatment.
This has to stop.
Today I downloaded a film released by a group in the scene. Two text files were attached. I assume they were written by the original release group.
Here’s what they say:
Text 1:
BEWARE_of_PISEXY.ORG.Scammers
Not too cool to make a living off of people’s sharing of movies such as www.pisexy.org does.
Not too cool to charge a reoccuring monthly fee.
Not too cool at all.
They only chrge $7.95 out of your paypal account monthly and it’s automatic so you get screwed even if you die they will still continue to make money from you. How nice!
Known fact…Pisexy cleared $10,000USD in just one month according to Pimpie (the owner).
MPAA, PLEASE SHUT DOWN THESE SITES!
And…
Text 2:
BEWARE_of_BITSOUP.ORG.Scammers
Another site to add to the shitlist of selling gigs.
www.bitsoup.org
Pay $25 and get: 200gb upload credit
Pay $35 and get: 300gb upload credit
Now to top it off they are offering High-Speed FTP access for $25 (50gb download)
Selling scene access is a HUGE HUGE mistake.
Whatever happened to sharing for free? After all, free is what it’s all about!
MPAA, Would you kindly shut these sites down. Thanks!
Last year the filesharing world was up in arms about the LokiTorrent scam. No one knows what really happened except that Ed Webber (Loki) received more than US$40,000.00 in donations and was never heard from again after being shut down by the MPAA.
Besides the money, he took with him every piece of info from his logs, including IP addresses, and probably gave them to the MPAA and RIAA.
How soon they forget.
After Loki disappeared, filesharers scrambled to find good, reliable, open trackers to use. And they did find them. But soon, many new “Elite” groups (with elitist attitudes to match), offering VIP memberships, started to crop up. This past year has seen a big wave of these groups appearing. They track your ratio, log your IP address, and if you’re stupid enough to give them money, they have your real name, home address and, possibly, your credit card details.
Filesharers are a very trusting lot, this is true. P2p wouldn’t, and couldn’t, exist without communal trust. But no one knows who these admins and owners really are, unless and until they get shut down. And then it’s too late because they now have information that was willingly given to them and we’ll never know who else has that information until strange purchases appear on a credit card bill, or a subpoena from the MPAA or RIAA arrives.
As one of the text files above states, “Whatever happened to sharing for free? After all, free is what it’s all about!”
Filesharing is free and must remain free. Trackers must remain open to all. Boycott groups that track your ratio and usage, beg for money, and require membership! Use only public, open trackers that don’t monitor your usage or ban you for low ratios; that don’t beg for money; that don’t require membership or an invitation.
That’s the only way to get rid of this scourge – this cancer – that’s been allowed to fester and corrupt the honest, trusting filesharing community.
You can find just about anything on public trackers as you would on closed-minded elitist trackers - and more!
My own list of boycotted sites, which I recommend people to also boycott, include:
- Araditracker
- Wild-bytes
- Evolution (evolutiontt.org)
- Filelist
- BitMe TV
- Supertorrents
- Centurion Underground (visionplateau.com)
Don’t give them money! Don’t become a member – it only encourages them! Boycott these, and all the other, trackers and web sites which do the same!
Keep filesharing free and open to everyone! Anyone who wants to run a tracker knows that it costs money. If they aren’t willing to pay for it themselves, they have no business and no right running a tracker.
catflap - p2pnet
December 29th, 2005 at 2:36 pm
This is an interesting subject that I welcome info on. I read a lengthy discussion of it elsewhere and came to the conclusion - not written in stone - that private sites don’t have to be bad even if some are shady.
This article, which I appreciate, makes me more wary of private sites, for which reason I’m thinking of deleting my link to BitTV (if it’s the same site), but I’m still following the story. The fact is, I’ve not be asked to give money in order to get stuff from BitTV, although perhaps a vip ticket is for sale there and I didn’t notice. I only noticed a ‘donate’ button, which I have no problem with. - I have a problem with being a poor wage slave, however.
Also, I’d be happy to register here, but I’m leery of seeing my password (’ID’ here) appear when I start to fill out the field. Therefore, I didn’t register.
I am Arby (not my real name).
December 29th, 2005 at 2:48 pm
Hi Arby:
No worries about you registering on p2pnet. As you’ve already noticed, it doesn’t stop you from posting : )
Meanwhile, as we say in the registration form, “The information you provide is for us, and no one else. That’s a promise and a carved-in-rock guarantee.”
Cheers!
December 29th, 2005 at 2:57 pm
i’m a member of various private bittorrent sites to which i have donated. these trackers continue to forge ahead while public trackers attempt to duplicate suprnova. private and communal torrent sites are the only ones to use. the glory days are not yet over, you simply need an invite.
December 29th, 2005 at 6:23 pm
There will be grammar mistakes I`m sorry. Anyway to the subject.
Very interesting article. So the “Private tracker problem” does beg people. Why? Are these sites really killing the scene and the concept of sharing for free itself. I don`t think so. They are nothing more that just another tracker out there. The only difference being that You cannot acces it so easyly. They make you pay you say? No they are not. They just encourage you to do it. The choice is still up to You, isn`t it? And as long as you can keep the ratio NO money needed and no ban for you. Anyway don`t like it- don`t buy it. That`s how I see the whole thing.
Few words as a member of bitmeTV.
There are many fee free trackers out there. They existed years ago and probably will still remain in distant future. But let me ask you, how many of them managed to stay alive for say 2 years? (They all are targeted by RIAA so there`s no surprise.)
There`s still no problem to get a fresh release from torrent but how about the old ones? The common way used to be eDonkey network but now? Look for the old torrents? OK but the trackers are either down or 0 seeders connected. This is where these “bad” private trackers comes to a play.
They simly use the common concept to keep people seeding and even post new torrents. Such concept prove to be usefull with say sites that host artwork (wallpapers/covers…) It is simple- submit your own work and get the accses. It works!
I can find some old movies and series that are not on the “free” trackers or HR.HDTV rips or even 720p instead common hdtv ones.
Why should I boycott these sites? They are just another way to get what you want. I`d rather have this alternative just in case
December 29th, 2005 at 7:57 pm
Thank God for CatFlap. I was starting to think that I was the only person with this issue on his mind. I’m from the old-skool and where I come from you NEVER charge. I don’t mind sites providing the facility to donate but as soon as you give someone benefits in exchange for money on a torrent site, its a commercial operation.
You need an invite to get in - I really like this part. If the site was actually private, I could see the point of the invite system but these sites are known by everyone - they’re not private they’re simply ‘limited’. Limit supply enough and you can make anything desirable - take a look on any P2P forum and you’ll see people literally begging for invites in the same way that they’ll beg you to sell them an Xbox360 for $1000.
People should be aware that these sites punish you for being a leech (just about the worst thing you can be in a torrent community) then in exchange for a monetary bribe, they turn a blind eye - and in effect sell you other user’s upload bandwidth.
And the privacy issues are horrific - talk about shooting fish in a barrel. Like I said on Slyck.com - these sites will be shut down and their bleeding skulls held high for everyone to see and the news headlines in the mainstream media will imply that all BitTorrent sites are like this. I’m furious. Thanks again CatFlap
I’ve posted your article and we will be discussing it here:
http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17774
Scratch
December 29th, 2005 at 8:05 pm
This pay to download is rather old hat news. As far as I know those sites aren’t demanding money as a condition of entry. I’ve heard that many of these sites ask for donations for the purpose of either maintaining server costs or if you wish VIP status. In addition along the same lines, I have also heard that some are, shall we say more insistant than others in asking for those donations.
At another forum, I’ve read that there are a few that offer pay to download, meaning that giving back isn’t part of the equation for those select few that are willing to part with money for a set amount of gigs. I can see both sides on this one. There is a tendancy on the part of ISPs to limit ones upload bandwidth. While they can recieve, their feedback is terrible and it will take far longer to give back what they might have gotten. For those with no choice in who supplies their internet connections this might be the answer to staying in good graces. It most likely would not work for any sort of other site. Those receiving from a college, uni, or work connection, they won’t have access to the router to become connectable and not all are capable of figuring out how to get around that. Some probably can’t be gotten around. For all those, I could see where this might be a workable solution.
For average Joe, I don’t see this working. One should consider also that those that accept money for a site will also be a stronger target for the cartels. It has always been #1`target when they can prove a site is making money off a service to infringe. Such was the Kaaza case. It pretty much makes the lock down to the case.
What I would caution on is the site that demands money as the entry fee or as a continued use fee. So far I haven’t heard any that are actually doing this but surely someone will try it. Unless their services are of such caliber to warrent this payment as being above and beyond all others and the user sees benefit to such a service, then you can almost always say it is a scam.
December 29th, 2005 at 8:21 pm
I use both Pisexy and Filelist for FREE.
Shocker, I have never paid these people any money. Now you are telling me that they charge to use their site?
They do not charge money and anyone who says they do is a liar.
In the last year both Filelist and Pisexy have been great sites for me.
I no longer receive letters from the MPAA because I use great sites like Pisexy and Filelist.
Asking for donations is NOTHING to be ashamed of. People supporting private trackers where they feel safe and know what type of files they are downloading is NOT wrong.
Anyone who says otherwise is full of $hit.
December 29th, 2005 at 9:00 pm
thanks for the comments already.
to be sure, i never said that any of the sites in the article - or any at all - demand or charge a fee for entry and usage. i, too, do not know of any sites that do this.
according to one of the texts i received, bitsoup is charging for ftp access. i don’t know if this is true or not. i’m only reporting what the text says…and i don’t know who write the texts.
what i’m discussing are the sites which offer so-called VIP membership - with/without extra gigs, require registration or invitation, banning low ratios, etc, as i explained above.
besides being elitist in manner and attitude, besides logging and keeping IP addresses (and financial/personal info when they receive a “donation”), besides selling gigabytes and VIP membership…besides all that, these types of sites attract a lot more attention from the **AA’s, which ends up as headlines in the lamescream press. it gives filesharers and free p2p a very bad reputation. and like as probably happened with Loki, all logged Ip addresses, registrations, usage (torrent file downloads and ratios) willl probbaly end up in the hands of the MPAA and RIAA.
the only people making money are those sites which charge for VIP and extra benefits. the average p2per does not make any money by sharing anything.
to those who have expressed an opposite opinion than mine, and who feel these elitist sites and their benefits are a good thing…well, i respect your opinion and if you want to give them money, that’s your choice. don’t blame me when they get shut down and your get a subpeona or letter from your ISP. you’ll know where that info came from.
but i’m offering a different, better choice: keep p2p free and open to all. stop tracking and banning low ratios. stop charging for VIP treatment. if you want to run a tracker, pay for it yourself. you chose to open one, so it’s your responsibility.
December 29th, 2005 at 9:07 pm
like i said, i don’t know who wrote it.
but i agree with what it says, so that’s why i wrote my article.
besides, it’s been on my mind for a while and this was the impetus to get me writing on it. hopefully a lot more people will have got those texts or read my piece. people need to wake up and boycott the scammers.
December 29th, 2005 at 9:17 pm
Whilst I agree with the principle that private sites are good.
PISexy is known for ripping off the users! The admin actually bragged in the forum to making over 10,000 USD per month. When I site starts banning the users that can seed back to 1:1 in preference for users that can’t seed and actually sell VIP status then they are scam sites.
December 29th, 2005 at 9:19 pm
Well, sharing was and still free. Some of what said in that article may be true, about donating and so… and don’t forget that they have advertisements, which may be enough to pay the “server bills”!. But, you’ve missed somethings, what does sharing means?! take and give, no? Public trackers doesn’t ‘force’ you to seed what you download, and if you don’t, your not sharing. No seeders means no speed, no long living for torrents… As for users ratio, it obliges you to share, and leave VIPs and donations, all this for free. With private trakcers, you download approximately with your max d/s, and the ‘elite ones’ have uploaders who’re members of scene releasing groups, which means, you’ll get the new scene releases very quick and fast, and, they offer technical support, or any other help, like mIRC channels, and it’s all volunteering and for free. This how sharing being a real sharing, imho at least.
December 29th, 2005 at 9:27 pm
thanks for posting my article here.
i equate asking for a “donation” with begging. and selling gigabytes is profit for these sites. most - if not all - do not openly post their total costs, although they do like to show how much money they get, or post an amount for what they need. who knows where those numbers come from? out of a hat? who really knows what they’re doing with the money and what their costs really are? only they do.
selling so-called VIP memberships is elitist and goes against the very core of free p2p in the open, communal filesharing community. some sites even stream films to you if you buy a VIP membership.
it also attracts a lot more attention.
anyone who wants to run a tracker knows beforehand that it costs money. it’s their responsibility to pay for it and maintain it. if they can’t, then they shouldn’t open a tracker.
it must stop. and the only way for that to happen is to boycott them.
December 29th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
ive been tryin to get the word out about this at slyck for about a month or so now. uve prob seen some of the articles that ive been heating up over there ;D (who_me)
anyways.. looks like times r changing… even if these sites dont disappear this coverage will force them to tone down there money grubbing ways.
check this site out: http://www.torrentleech.org/index.php
quote;
# 2005-09-29 - SITE REGISTRATION CLOSED - VIP ONLY: At the present time, TORRENTLEECH has reached its user cap. TL is now closed to regular registration; and no further invites are available or usable at present. A limited number of VIP registrations remain available. Contact an operator in our channel #torrentleech at irc.torrentleech.org:7011 for details.
translates to: we dont want users that dont pay so if ya can pay well let ya in… this bs is getting out of control.. hopefully they and all there like get shut down thrown in prison and get assraped by 1000 inmates simultaneously
December 29th, 2005 at 9:39 pm
They never ask ppl for money, no one is asked to become VIP member.
Registering on PiSexy is free but limited. There are times they have open signups.
The whole idea on PiSexy is to SHARE, seed back what you take.
Users with a low ratio (below 1:1) are asked to seed back what they take (isn’t that the sharing principle?) or get kicked.
Some people however want far more then what they can seed back (some ppl have upload capacity of 256kbps maybe less), since PiSexy kills bad leechers accounts, the VIP option is to leech whatever you want without being kicked! You are still urged to seed tho
The text files are not added by the scene, they are added by some jealous ppl prolly ppl from other torrent sites with some connections who can not stand the quality and prospect of the site.
95% of the users is NOT VIP member…
December 29th, 2005 at 9:45 pm
Im a member of Pisexy which your reporter 4got to mention in his I dont like list - which shows the same intellectual rigour as the rest of his article - wild byes which he did mention - also hate pisexy - cos they are mostly former mods uploaders an members who fell out with pisexy. U do not have to pay to become a member of pisexy - if u want a lot more than u can share u have a choice - pay pimpie or leave - I ration myself and dont think the world owes me a result on any an every file i care to d/l or u/l. Overall Im a happy camper there. For a start we get very few excitable 11 yr olds like your reporter - which i think u must admit needs attention - and why blacken so many peoples names for a very short term result - u dont even sell papers
December 29th, 2005 at 9:51 pm
lol, look out catflap here comes the attack of the killer fanboyz sheep.
fanboy: do u know ur bandwidth is being sold to those with vip slots allowing them to hit and run with no regard for sharing or ratios while u struggle to maintain urs or get banned and the admin get rich/profit off ur connection? doesnt look it to me…
December 29th, 2005 at 9:54 pm
pisexy is not in my list for two reasons:
1. i’ve never been there.
2. it’s already in the article - the text file which i did not write.
PS: i’m much older than 11…probably much older than you.
December 29th, 2005 at 9:56 pm
attack of the killer fanboiz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
lol
fanboy, u dont seem very aware about the fact that ur bandwidth is being sold while u struggle to maintain ur ratio or get banned to those that take the vip option and the admin get rich/profit offa ur stupidity.
WAKE UP
December 29th, 2005 at 9:57 pm
in case anyone was wondering, i don’t have a big problem with demonoid because although they do require registration, track ratios, ask for donations…they do allow torrent files from other trackers, so no one is forced to use only demonoid trackers which will track your ratios.
just to be clear…donating to open sites like pbay and others is NOT something i have a big problem with. it’s the closed, or so-called “private” trackers which offer VIP treatment, ratio tracking, etc. that’s i’m against.
December 29th, 2005 at 10:04 pm
Maybe Bram Cohen should modify the license under which he allows others to use his bit-torrent technology to prevent web sites admins from exploiting it for capitalistic gain.
December 29th, 2005 at 10:18 pm
Dude, that’s the most retarded article I have ever read. Private sites are a hundred times better than public trackers, because the odds are alot more likely that your ip adress will get captured on a public tracker as you seed new Brittany Spears. All you have to do at private sites is DON’T DONATE, JUST DO UR BIT WHEN IT COMES TO RATIO. Honest to God, “Yeah let’s all hop on torrentspy and get raped by RIAA”.
December 29th, 2005 at 10:24 pm
these elitist sites log and keep your ip address. that’s how they’re able to track your usage. that’s how they’re able to ban you. duh.
and that info will be given to the cartels when they’re shut down. it doesn’t matter if you donate or not. they’ll have your ip address and there’s nothing you can do about it.
PS: don’t call me “dude”.
December 29th, 2005 at 10:26 pm
most open, public trackers dunp their logs at least once a day. the elitist groups do not ever dump them.
so don’t blame me when you have to go to court.
December 29th, 2005 at 10:35 pm
I am with a few of the sites you post on there as should not use etc. I know owners of a few of them. I pay for servers for them so that they can continue to operate… SHARE CAUSE YOU CARE YOU ARAB FUCK…. You are the reason so many israelis get banned so often…. If you have money don’t be israeli about it, put it forward to good use. Sure 40k is a bit much as there is no way it costs that much, or does it… A good 100MBit server runs you 150-160 a month and thats with 1TB bandwidth…. Well mine runs about 800GB in 2 days, so in thee end that is roughly 24TB I am smart and buy before overages hit, but some sites may not do that and therefore 40k would definetly be useful. Go Some where with you free sharing bullshit. Everyone can afford a 20 dollar donation a month with how much they save on the pirated software and music they get.
December 29th, 2005 at 10:40 pm
I appreciate Your point of view. But it looks way too idealistic to me.
I take “i equate asking for a “donation” with begging” being your very issue with this subject. So they do get the money… and what? Their torrents still works without any paymet from me (someone post the same thing below). Why should I be angry? Because I am jealous of their profits?
“selling so-called VIP memberships”- As far as I can remember at bitmetv it only gives your avatar a “cool” golden star. I don`t see any way in what it can cause damage to the scene.
One thing you 100% right about is the fact that “it also attracts a lot more attention”. So true… But we also saw “free” trackers closed while these “private” trackers remain intact.
One more thing. You claim that “private” trackers can share IP logs and other data with **AAs,right? Can you guarantee that owners of the “free” trackers (especially ones that works couple months and dies) don`t do the same?
Please remember. These private sites are only trackers that offer some cool downloads that are hardly found on any other trackers. No more
December 29th, 2005 at 10:43 pm
I don’t see the difference between a public tracker admin asking for donations and a private tracker admin asking for donations. Arguing that tracker admins should either pay for the server costs themselves or not run a tracker at all is ridiculous.
The Pirate Bay runs a great public tracker but it costs them a lot of money so they ask for donations. There’s nothing wrong with that. Similarily, many private tracker admins ask for donations because they can’t afford the monthly server costs.
I’m all for the free exchange of information but I also think registration based trackers are great. While it’s true that a few people are running private trackers for the purpose of making money, these people are in the minority. Most of these private trackers don’t make much money.
Personally, I think some file sharers are becoming ingrates. Instead of being thankful to the people who share files on private trackers, they exaggerate the amount of donations being received by the tracker admin and imply most of these private trackers are selling accounts. This is a load of crap.
December 29th, 2005 at 10:43 pm
I represent SuperTorrents.org and would like to say that while you do have a valid point, you lack understanding.
Firstly, donations are not required nor do they give any user special treatment or VIP status..
When ST was started, we did not accept donations. I was determined to keep money and filesharing as seperate as I could. With an increasing userbase, constant DDoS attacks, and not enough bandwidth to go around, we are forced to continuously upgrade our servers and services, which cost money. More money comes out of my own pocket than is covered by donations, which isn’t necessarily true of other sites, but that’s perfectly acceptable. Any money that is recieved is spent to further development of a tracker, and will continue to be done as such.
BitTorrent was not originally developed to support public tracking of files. The implementation of distributed hash tables has caused more problems than it has fixed. BitTorrent was developed to allow filesharing privately among a small group of people.
If people were content with using public trackers, there wouldn’t be so many private sites in existence. Keeping uploads private allows a site to ensure quality and speed, which is why they are so popular. Tracking users stats is an incentive for them to share, which a public tracker doesn’t have. Who wants to use their bandwidth when they have nothing to gain from it?
SuperTorrents and other large private trackers cannot afford to operate without donations from its members, it’s that simple. You expect site owners to risk getting arrested as well lowering their quality of life lives by sacrificing most of their paychecks on their websites? Sorry but I’d rather make a car payment. On top of this, just about every ring on the internet allows access for money, even if it’s not explicitly stated ($$ for gigabytes). Slave owners pay for their servers, and they are allowed access, this is how the scene operates in this day and age, and there’s nothing anyone can do about it.
-Ersan (SysOp and Founder of SuperTorrents.org)
December 29th, 2005 at 10:48 pm
hi!
i usually don’t post much on my own articles, but this is a hot topic here…and spreading.
you asked me:
“Can you guarantee that owners of the “free” trackers (especially ones that works couple months and dies) don`t do the same?”
*****
i guarantee nothing. but i know - because i have asked open tracker admins and owners (i know…it’s not proof of anything) —— most open, public trackers dump their logs at least once a day. these are people i trust to do the right thing because i’ve “known” them a long time.
the elitist groups do not ever dump them. that’s how they can track your ratio. that’s how they can ban you.
and that info goes to tthe MPAA and RIAA when they’re shut down.
December 29th, 2005 at 10:52 pm
SysOp at SuperTorrents.org again, would like to say that we don’t even log access attempts, and we don’t store users IP’s, we store hashes that allow us to ban users if necessary. Your argument is null.
December 29th, 2005 at 10:56 pm
hi drake!
i guess you missed one of my replies above.
i DO NOT have a big problem with pbay and other open sites asking for donations - although i do stand by my opinion that admins/owners should pay for it themselves. and even if they don’t, they should publicly post verifiable costs and donation amounts, and prove exactly where the money went. not just pbay, but all sites that ask for donations. this is something Loki didn’t do. i have a problem, but not a BIG problem with it.
also, pbay and other like them (mininova, newnova, etc) do not require registration, track your ratios or offer VIP treatment or sell gigabytes.
i like pbay a lot and i use it. i’m glad they’re there and i like their attituse to the empty threats they get.
open accounting for these open sites will help keep the p2p world honest.
December 29th, 2005 at 10:59 pm
maybe the mpaa and riaa get 1 tracker a month. and thats pretty high.
they are getting most of their information from public running torrents.
private trackers keep out the riff raff too.
December 29th, 2005 at 11:03 pm
i know…mininova and newnova aren’t trackers. but they do ask for donations.
it’s a big difference to me, and i don’t have a BIG problem with these sites.
December 29th, 2005 at 11:03 pm
I also just noticed that this site is ridded with ads as well as a handy “Space For Rent” rotating banner at the top, you generate profit from these ads do you not? At least we’re not forcing every user to donate by looking at ads.
-Ersan
December 29th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
i don’t get paid.
and it’s not my site. i don’t run it or have any influence in the operations.
and anyway, this site is not a tracker, so your point is null.
December 29th, 2005 at 11:08 pm
Do ignore my first point.
December 29th, 2005 at 11:15 pm
I was trying to say that there can be a possibility. And of cause the logging thing is not a matter of tracker being “private” or not but more of admin being a jackass.
I`ve never stoppped believeing in good people that don`t do logs. And here is a proof!
December 29th, 2005 at 11:22 pm
if your group, and groups like yours, would publicly, openly and honestly post real, verifiable documentation on your home page and news sites like p2pnet, of what your costs are and how much money is paid to you, and verifiable proof of exactly where that money went, i might - MIGHT! - start to have a change of heart.
if you refuse to do even that, then it only shows how elitist and selfish and greedy you are. don’t you know that by keeping trackers open to all will bring in more and more people, which means more and more bandwidth being shared? that’s real sharing. what you do is despicable.
in either case, you should pay for it yourself. you chose to run a tracker. no one forced you to do it. it’s your responsibility to pay for and maintain it. no one else’s.
December 29th, 2005 at 11:32 pm
Bitsoup kicks ass. Donating versus requiring some sort of payment to use the site are waaaaaay different things. I have donated to two different trackers (not bitsoup though, myspleen and oink’s pink palace), and would easily donate again to ensure that the trackers are kept alive.
As long as a donation isn’t a requirement, then who cares, ive seen people with blogs that have a paypal donate button on them…. now that is sad.
December 29th, 2005 at 11:38 pm
i think that’s why he accepted US$8.5million from the cartels. they basically own him and the BitTorrent company he set up just before the deal went through.
when hollywood starts their own fee-based trackers, you’ll see a lot more threats from lawsuits and sites being shut down.
December 29th, 2005 at 11:43 pm
baloney. sorry, but it is.
sites like yours regularly ban IP addresses - you even boast on your front page how you ban IP addresses from israel.
you know exactly the ip addresses of anyone who accesses your website. and i’m sure you’ll gladly hand over the logs to the MPAA when they come knocking.
December 29th, 2005 at 11:46 pm
If I revealed the real places the money goes, I would undoubtedly be banned from the services I pay for, or I’d be more than happy to. I cannot afford this on my own, nobody with a sub-$90,000/year salary could, and I’m an unemployed college student.
Before we went down, we had a section called ‘User Uploads’, we haven’t had the time to fix that code since we upgraded, is that sufficient enough to make you stop bitching about things you don’t understand?
I spend a significant amount of time and money on my site at no financial or social advantage to me, not to mention risking legal repercussions, and you have the nerve to call me elitist and selfish?
Once again I must stress that BitTorrent was NOT CREATED for public and open information sharing, use limewire or bearshare or any other of the senselessly annoying ads on this site if that’s what you want.
Why don’t you complain about companies who produce filesharing programs charging more for a ‘Pro’ version, as that is the exact same thing.
December 29th, 2005 at 11:52 pm
you said:
“BitTorrent was not originally developed to support public tracking of files.”
uh…then i guess it was developed so you and other greedy elitists could make money from it. just like the MPAA paid bram US$8.5million. you’re just like them - greedy.
December 30th, 2005 at 12:01 am
I’m also against trackers that force people to pay a certain amount of money in order to register an account, or sites that are making a nice profit and don’t really need donations. The thing is, you’re lumping a lot of the good private trackers into the group with the scammers.
A lot of these private trackers do post monthly goals. Some claim they need $200/month, some less…some more. Unless we know exactly what their server costs are we don’t know for sure if theu actually need this much money, but from what I’ve seen, these sites generally don’t exaggerate and post reasonable goals.
I just think it’s a big mistake to paint all private trackers, who ask for donations, with the same brush. Most people aren’t able to afford maintaining a Website that costs them $200/month. Why shouldn’t they ask file sharers for donations?
Most of the “VIP” accounts I’ve seen don’t even have many special privileges. They can leech without worrying about the admins deleting their account for a certain period of time. That’s about it.
Also, these private torrent sites don’t keep many logs. Log files become huge quickly so they’re purged regularly. One of the well known members/coders in the BT community stated this not too long ago. When you state that these admins can easily provide the MPAA (or whomever) with evidence which can be used against them, you’re misleading and scaring them at the same time.
Elite Torrents and LokiTorrent were both raided and, so far, none of the regular members of those Websites have been targetted. If these logs truly revealed as much information as you claim, they would have gone after tens of thousands of BT users already.
A lot of people don’t like private torrent sites. That’s fine, but don’t portray all of these sites as if they’re scam sites or anti p2p.
December 30th, 2005 at 12:16 am
you and your ilk give p2p a bad reputation and attract unwanted attention, giving more ammunition to the cartels who say they’re losing money because filesharing is a profit-earning industry (they say).
on the whole, it’s not. but you and your fellow elitists are making god knows how much money! you’re a college student? how can i believe that? i have no idea who or where you are, and no way for you or me to prove either way.
you’re a pirate.
December 30th, 2005 at 12:18 am
I’m done, you don’t want to listen to reason, and you have no facts to back up your arguments, you just keep spouting nonsense about site owners being elitist, greedy, and selfish when you have no idea where the donation money goes or how necessary it is. Start your own private tracker, devote thousands of hours to it, then try to maintain it as your userbase grows without donations, and then maybe people will listen to you.
Your opinions are a mix of selective listening and twisting ideas to fit your agenda. That’s all I have to say.
December 30th, 2005 at 12:23 am
Where does this bullshit come from? My first priority is maintaining the anonymity of our users, and it has been from day one. We banned Israel’s netblock, we don’t log access attempts from them, nor do we log successful access attempts (or IP’s of users who request information from our servers). What possible reason could we have for keeping that information? An IP is used once, then discarded. Learn how cryptography works and maybe you’d understand that by ‘hashing’ users IP’s, we (and subsequently anyone that has access to our databases) don’t know what their actual values are… An incoming connection’s IP is hashed then compared to our blacklist, if there’s a match that user is denied access.
If you don’t know what you’re talking about, then don’t pretend to.
December 30th, 2005 at 12:38 am
What do you mean that BITSOUP is CRAP?
‘Whatever happened to sharing for free? After all, free is what it’s all about!’
IT IS FREE, only with the FTP server you can get it faster, so go crawl back into the little hole that YOU came from!
December 30th, 2005 at 12:41 am
i said nothing of the sort. that info about bitsoup comes from the text file i received. i didn’t write it and i don’t know if it’s true or not.
my reason for posting it has been explained a few times. please read the messages.
December 30th, 2005 at 1:24 am
Are you Freeking mental ???
Peep this ALL
cost 200 -400 USD for a decent server with enuff bandwidth and space to do what some of these sites do …… they pay for coders , server bills , licencing , site promotions and give aways ….. its not a proffitable craft
take loki for example ….. 40K … yeah thats alotta cake but 40 K over how long ?
these trackers are not put to gether for free
if a user has a crappy ratio they should be able to buy thier way out of it …. save thier acct ….. its 2006 for christ sake
also i really dont think you have ever run a filesharing community of any moderate size ….. or else it would go under lol
as for security P2p related access etc …..gimmie a break its a wonderland of IP’s to play with for a hacker
i think the ppl in the scene are just gelous they didnt think of these site models 1st .
PS
Eat ME
December 30th, 2005 at 1:56 am
This is a hot topic for sure. Personally I have no problem with private trackers unless they offer ‘benefits’ for donations. This is, in my opinion, leaving the site owners on shaky ground legally and in turn could tarnish all sites as being ‘commercial pirates’
Donating to keep a site up should not give a user any benefits, except maybe a nice star next to your name
Also to reply to your comment on public trackers dumping logs, if I log in to a certain Swedish tracker, there are totals of my uploaded and downloaded data since registering there. Whilst I know it is not necessary to register, the point I make is that public trackers clearly do keep some records.
December 30th, 2005 at 2:10 am
To quote you:
“Some people however want far more then what they can seed back (some ppl have upload capacity of 256kbps maybe less), since PiSexy kills bad leechers accounts, the VIP option is to leech whatever you want without being kicked! You are still urged to seed tho ;)”
They kill bad leechers, unless you stump up the cash then they don’t care what you take.
Hardly a sharing ethos, take what you want and give us the money.
In a nutshell they are selling warez = commercial pirates.
Pisexy, along with others selling VIP’s are damaging p2p. The whole point is that you share, wether on ftp’s, newsgroups, bittorrent (public or private trackers) or even Kazaa. Donating to keep a site running is one thing, to get ‘extras’ for donating is just plain wrong.
December 30th, 2005 at 2:29 am
The article does contain some valid information and is correct in that it makes more people aware and I applaud your efforts in that respect.
I feel i have to add to this though, that it is also very poor also, as it clearly lacks research and is littered with opinion rather than just stating the facts and then adding your own opinion at the end. Read up at Slyck.com to see how it should be done.
December 30th, 2005 at 2:35 am
You obviously know shit about torrent websites sir. Its all about building up a ratio. Share what you download, and dont become a leecher but contribute to the sharing community and build up a positive ratio. Some people contribute in another way to the community. They donate cash in order to pay for the website hosting and the massive bandwidth a big torrent site requires. Nobody is FORCED to pay. Its OPTIONAL. As a reward these DONATERS receive extra upload credit to compensate their sharing. Some people have crappy upload speeds or are dramatically limited by their ISPs. DONATING will allow them to contribute to the community, do their part, and cover their ratio losses.
Ofcourse donating shouldnt be an excuse to pay off your leecher damage and make you hit and run like hell, because with another 20 bucks you can boost up your ratio. Without these donaters the big successfull torrent websites will be offline in no time, simple because the lack of funds.
Your article makes torrent websites look bad. Myself i am member of both filelist and bitsoup, and can assure you that i never donated (lack of CC) but shared my part in keeping up a GOOD ratio and helping where possible (seeds, reseeds, but also forum help, tech probs, community building). I never felt the pressure on donating. Users arent charged, they are just asked for their financial support because websites simply cost money. And in a community we all share our resources.
Scene access isnt sold. Registering and leeching/seeding torrents are free. You dont pay a single penny if you dont want to!
[quote]Keep filesharing free and open to everyone! Anyone who wants to run a tracker knows that it costs money. If they aren’t willing to pay for it themselves, they have no business and no right running a tracker.[/quote]
You should have finished grammar school or w/e its called in your country. You are so simple minded and really know nothing about the COMMUNITY aspect.
December 30th, 2005 at 2:58 am
I made first post just fyi…
I’d agree with the third responder. The first two responders aredead wrong. Public trackers dump logs, but RIAAcan just browse to that site, gather ips by using azureus, logging ontoa torrent and seeing all seedsand leeches. I believe it’s alot harder/morework to signup for sites and do the same. N00bs…
December 30th, 2005 at 3:08 am
Oh well, if you guys remember, a few months back a hong kong citizen was charged with uploading hollywood films via bt. He was sentenced to 6 month jail if i recall. That would probably be the first case in the world thats someone is being charge of using bt or uploading files. The problem lies in how the government is keen on working with the media companies and agencies. It is impossible to place and charge 100 million bt users in jail, if i am under estimating the figure. Well for now we have heard news of how hollywood had hired programmers to upload dummy trackers or files to bt to attempt to sabotage bt users. But seems like non of them ever succeeded thanks to the crc error check within the bt programme.
It is true that bt is a simple concept yet the architecture of the programme is complex. It brings us joy that our bandwidth is almost fully utilize and thats one of the main reason why it remained as popular. No ones mentioned about IRC(Internet Relay Chat) which is one of the pioneer of file sharing. For those who are unaware, most of the file sharing groups have their own IRC channels and they too have bots and fserves (file servers usually IRC users themselves) contributed to file sharing. And as far as i recall, File sharing on IRC is as early as the start of the the mid 1990’s when internet start becoming famous. Although there were many attempts to terminate irc servers, die hard group move around from one server to another. My first IRC program was 3.02 if i recalled.
I was one of those fserves before and enjoyed the freedom of getting files from other fserves and bots. You need to understand basic IRC commands before you can perform your searches and you need to know exactly which IRC server to login and which channel to access to before you can do anything. Its those do-it-yourself search that really makes the searching more worth while.
There are also other version of IRC programmes which slowly evolves and specialise only in file sharing, with scripts and addons that helps to track bots and fserves once your type a command line for example !list on the the main channel. IRC commands are pretty much like DOS commands. One search could end up with hunderds of fserves and bots depending on the popularity of the channel. The good thing is, there is an unspoken code in us, be a file sharer or a leech. Some fserves restrict some of their files to only people who are fserves themselves. The channel is kept under survillience by the channel owners or those who have power, and give the voice as we call it to people who share. There are also bots they have to keep track of the number of gigs you have to share so as to differentiate between true fserves and bogus.
Although the popularity of bt helped pretty much in file sharing as of the recent years by providing the fool proof way to file sharing, IRC is still around. It outlived Napster, outlived kazaa ( i never used kazaa after napster since its pretty stupid to have my downloads terminate half way). And also its pretty much alive now, i still uses IRC once in a while to get my files. Even if one day bt will be replaced by some other new p2p file sharing, we will expect to rely on many other methods of file sharing. There are still ftp, emule and others… not even mentioned by the http as well. But for now, dont put all the praises on bt. There are always conventional way of file sharing. Try IRC for once.
December 30th, 2005 at 3:09 am
[quote] hopefully they and all there like get shut down thrown in prison and get assraped by 1000 inmates simultaneously [end qote]
Reliving your fantasies again? Your post screams of LEEEEEEEECH!!!! Just stay on the public trackers with all the other dumb fucks that don’t know what SHARING means.
December 30th, 2005 at 3:11 am
Oh well, if you guys remember, a few months back a hong kong citizen was charged with uploading hollywood films via bt. He was sentenced to 6 month jail if i recall. That would probably be the first case in the world thats someone is being charge of using bt or uploading files. The problem lies in how the government is keen on working with the media companies and agencies. It is impossible to place and charge 100 million bt users in jail, if i am under estimating the figure. Well for now we have heard news of how hollywood had hired programmers to upload dummy trackers or files to bt to attempt to sabotage bt users. But seems like non of them ever succeeded thanks to the crc error check within the bt programme.
It is true that bt is a simple concept yet the architecture of the programme is complex. It brings us joy that our bandwidth is almost fully utilize and thats one of the main reason why it remained as popular. No ones mentioned about IRC(Internet Relay Chat) which is one of the pioneer of file sharing. For those who are unaware, most of the file sharing groups have their own IRC channels and they too have bots and fserves (file servers usually IRC users themselves) contributed to file sharing. And as far as i recall, File sharing on IRC is as early as the start of the the mid 1990’s when internet start becoming famous. Although there were many attempts to terminate irc servers, die hard group move around from one server to another. My first IRC program was 3.02 if i recalled.
I was one of those fserves before and enjoyed the freedom of getting files from other fserves and bots. You need to understand basic IRC commands before you can perform your searches and you need to know exactly which IRC server to login and which channel to access to before you can do anything. Its those do-it-yourself search that really makes the searching more worth while.
There are also other version of IRC programmes which slowly evolves and specialise only in file sharing, with scripts and addons that helps to track bots and fserves once your type a command line for example !list on the the main channel. IRC commands are pretty much like DOS commands. One search could end up with hunderds of fserves and bots depending on the popularity of the channel. The good thing is, there is an unspoken code in us, be a file sharer or a leech. Some fserves restrict some of their files to only people who are fserves themselves. The channel is kept under survillience by the channel owners or those who have power, and give the voice as we call it to people who share. There are also bots they have to keep track of the number of gigs you have to share so as to differentiate between true fserves and bogus.
Although the popularity of bt helped pretty much in file sharing as of the recent years by providing the fool proof way to file sharing, IRC is still around. It outlived Napster, outlived kazaa ( i never used kazaa after napster since its pretty stupid to have my downloads terminate half way). And also its pretty much alive now, i still uses IRC once in a while to get my files. Even if one day bt will be replaced by some other new p2p file sharing, we will expect to rely on many other methods of file sharing. There are still ftp, emule and others… not even mentioned by the http as well. But for now, dont put all the praises on bt. There are always conventional way of file sharing. Try IRC for once.
December 30th, 2005 at 3:20 am
I’m a much respected uploader at a few members only sites and you are totally off base with this; we want files to propagate, not dead links thus the monitoring of ratio’s. and the donation of funds is voluntary to keep the site alive. mind you there are greedy admins out there so only use sites that disclose their costs and current funds so as there is no abuse. I personally have never donated but I donate my bandwith and content so I have sufficently helped the site in lieu of money. the members only sites I use now because Elite torrents got taken down focus on security and making sure there are no links on the internet to lead the inexperienced filesharer to them; yes this keeps the ranks down but they are growing at a slower process with trustworthy peeps who share back what they take; this is the nature of bittorent!
Filesharing is so much more fun in a community environment; I loved the time I had at Elite torrents. BUT YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO PAY TO BE A MEMBER! we take steps to ensure that people share what they take as to keep the downloads fast! Dumbasses!
Public trackers are useless for less popular stuff because everyone hits’n'runs! you can’t get any decent speed there. Bittorrent is about community involvement in a swarm to make it effective; I once in my days at Elite had a file stay on the tracker with 100 seeds for over 6 months! Thats community involvement! allowing a file to be readilly traded at extreme speeds for an extended period of time, and this is not a hosting server, it’s pure p2p!
This is Affliction! Listen to the DAWG!
December 30th, 2005 at 3:50 am
Hello,
I am a sysop at the SuperTorrents you mentioned. I hope you meant the .net version because the .org version is very honest and we are constantly rolling out new features for our members. In case you havent noticed, public sites also ask for and accept donations so i don’t understand where you get off saying we must all be scamming P2P’ers. As i’m sure you can understand, running a site that hosts potentially thousands of members costs money.
We have always held the belief that P2P should be free and we do not force anyone to pay anything…at all. All we ask is that if you can spare some money then to please donate, and in return we can keep the site running and provide our users quality downloads at fast speeds, two things you do not see at public sites i might add.
We also offer a community that makes our users feel very close to the staff. We are not overtly dominearing, nor are we invisible from the works of the site. We work right along with our users and we listen to what they want from a torrent site and do our best to fulfill those wishes.
I would hope that you would reconsider your stance on private BT sites. I can not vouch for the other BT sites but as a SysOp at SuperTorrents.net i can tell you that we are only here to share. Is that not the reason we are all in p2p in the first place?
Thank you for you time,
-Szentigrade (SuperTorrents.Org SysOp)
December 30th, 2005 at 4:06 am
You are a total loser moron! Your so called ‘article’ is nothing more that garbage, you probably got BOOTED from those sites for not sharing right, so you wage a one moron war against them.
For the record, MORON, I have NEVER been asked to pay, only to share, which I do. It cretins like you that do more harm to the P2P world than good, YES, there are bad sites out there that demand you pay them, but GOOD sharers avoid those sites.
So why are you so moronicaly waging a war against them? Maybe you dont share and they banned you.
yes, that must be it, like your opinion, its all one way traffic. Did you even bother to ask these sites for comment?
Your article is not therefore and article, its a OPINION.
and a poor one at that.
Go screw yourself, and BTW, get your facts right loser!
December 30th, 2005 at 4:17 am
so because a site has its member’s support them to cover costs of running sitee you cry like a baby,
In life everything costs something.
You think the people that run the sites just are able to for free??
Most of those sites dont force anyone to support the server bills
FREEDOM OF CHOICE LET IT REST
December 30th, 2005 at 4:27 am
And you, you don’t mind all these banners all over the place tho do you.
That’s asking for donations IMHO.
Of course you’ll say someone has to pay the bills here, but why is that any different than BT sites asking for donations, someone has to pay the bills there too.
And as a BT site has useful content, I’d donate before I’d click on one of your banners anyday.
It’s an option just as clicking on your banners is an option as well. No one forces anyone to donate to any BT site, just as no one forces anyone to click on your banners.
So get off your high moral horse.
December 30th, 2005 at 4:40 am
What an interesting report — though in part it is bogus …
Bitsoup.org for example, does not require payment and sharing is FREE as it is supposed to be … donations are voluntary and they allow for a solution to problems for folks that have an upload bandwidth that is capped to a very low amount by their ISP …
Donations help to offset the cost of operating the hardware needed to host the website … and that website hosting does not come free or cheap for major websites, should for sure not be news to p2pnet.net now, is it?
Otherwise, I guess all those ad banners all over this site are just for show ???
I would suggest more qualified research before posting bad information … but it goes to show you: Don’t believe everything you read on the internet !!!
December 30th, 2005 at 6:35 am
What a bunch of crap.
There are alot of Clubs (whatever club) in the world, known by alot. Do that make it limited clubs ? Ofcource not, you have to become a member …..
How many (quality) torrent tracker sites will stay alive, if the owners don’t have the right to ask support for it ?
Ow yeah, they can add alot of advertising if they manage to find those advertisers. Which i personally hate. Most of the time you end up woth porn/gambling ads.
I see absolutely no harm in asking a donation, more so if you have a CHOICE!
And about atracting RIAA,MPAA or whatever, NAPSTEr, KAZAA, SUPERNOVA where all VERY FREE AND PUBLIC TRACKERS. Where are they now ? Right, busted….duh.
There goes another vaporware argument….
PS: i really hope this site isn’t yours (the articles writer). What a outdated message system :-/
December 30th, 2005 at 6:45 am
Killing leeches (people who are stubbern and don’t want to share with the rest, according to their stats) is a good thing, infact, it’s the only thing to keep a private tracker actractive.
This way they ensure (to a point) better speeds for their torrents (overall).
Public trackers has 0% control in this, the speed you achieve on any given torrent is totally random and more often then not slower.
Also the quality is less of the uploaded material.
Killing leeches also raise the moral of the people who DO share and encourage them to keep doing it.
Private trackers are a valid option for people willing the invest in a solid base for their torrents, along with a nice community.
As long as you have a choice what you do, share or donate, Private trackers have my blessing.
December 30th, 2005 at 6:49 am
Inserted by the scene release groups indeed. Maybe if you were a VIP you could buy a clue.
MaxtheSilent.
December 30th, 2005 at 7:23 am
Go Public, put your IP out there for the world to see, no thanks, will stick to private, member only trackers, that do not share with people, and require some level of sharing, to ensure everyone gets a chance to download. Want to go to jail faster, just download from public trackers, that sell ads to earn money, and annoy you with popups all the time. Oh, look, a donate button on that public tracker, wonder what revenue that generates for the site owner.
December 30th, 2005 at 7:26 am
ahh look who it is max the cocksucking silent.. hello from an old friend my boy ;D (we all know u have many friends right?)
every1 say hi to max the silent hes a cohert of Pimpy the fraudelent owner of pisexy.org. how nice of u to grace us with ur precense max… i trust ur doing well these days? anyways…..
be warned my old friend… ur and pimpie’s days r numbered… since ur here why not tell all of us about ur profiting scheme that has paid off so well with pisexy? im sure all the dumbass sheep uve profited off of would love to hear the story. im sure all the reply well get from these ass monkeys is much like the prior one he blessed us with (along with all of the dumbass fan boyz replies that have littered these replies)…
we shall be seeing u soon my friend.
December 30th, 2005 at 7:28 am
r u really that stupid? u think the **AA dont have accounts at these “private” sites?
LMFAO
stupid is as stupid does
December 30th, 2005 at 7:33 am
I have it on good authority that those text files about PiSexy came from a few disguntled dvd-core newsgroup users (egged on by some of the administration of Wild-Bytes.org, mainly Goliath2k and Therm).
The text are being inserted before being posted to that newsgroup by users that have been banned from PiSexy for abuse, cheating, disrepect or just plain low ratio. They are abetted by some of the admin of Wild-Bytes who strangely enough were also banned from PiSexy.
The scene groups would scene ban anyone they caught posting releases to any P2P sites. I imagine some heads will roll when the groups find out who is altering their releases for their own agendas.
If you did a little research before you spouted off, you would have found that those text files are not in any release that doesn’t go through the DVD-Core newsgroup. Congratulations for forwarding somebody else’s agenda. (Funny how some of the people involved are from a site #2 on your boycott list) What happened, did they kick you off the site for not sharing?
Common Sense
(Feel free to use my name, if you can live up to it.)
December 30th, 2005 at 7:40 am
Well, try harder. Seems to me your explanation sucks, just like this whole “socalled” article.
You make accusations with comments you cannot backup. You never verified any word of it and yet you come up with your “facts”.
We all get sick of it , you say ? Who is all ? not me for sure, just like alot of others here seeing all those comments.
What are your sources ? Have you even tried to contact some others to see what they feel about it ?
This article is 100% bogus, it sounds more like a gosip magazine writer who writes columns for a gosip magazine. A cheap columnist , if you ask me.
December 30th, 2005 at 7:45 am
that *may* be true… but it doesnt change the fact that these sites r selling gigs which is the bottom line.. there profiting offa there dumbass users.
December 30th, 2005 at 7:52 am
they aren’t profiting… it costs a lot of money to run these types of sites, I doubt they even get enough to just cover the basics.
December 30th, 2005 at 8:17 am
pimpy himself has bragged about how much hes profiting from the site….
December 30th, 2005 at 8:50 am
The author is obviously not well informed.
One of the sites listed has nothing to do with anything he has stated. I am a member there and there is no fee whatsoever, the site is totally free, totally secure, and I am protected there. Private sites are the future of P2P and member security and privacy is paramount. Some do charge but those that are part of the file sharing community do not. I feel safe and comfortable there and know the members are friendly and my IP cannot be found by any online agency.
So to the author, get the facts before you spew your BS.
December 30th, 2005 at 8:56 am
catflap so you just post shit without verifying its authenticity?
I know for a fact Centurion Underground doesnt charge a dime and is totally free cause I am a member. So are we to trust your un informed opinion? or are you just a pissed off loser who was dumped from one or all of these sites?
December 30th, 2005 at 8:58 am
ur a moron then if u think being on a “private” site ensures ur safety. how hard would it be for the **AA to get on any of these sites?
again, another dumbass
lol
December 30th, 2005 at 9:10 am
$200,- is a bargain. when you have to keep up a site with thousands of torrents and more then 10.000 members, cost goes easaly to $ 1000,- and more..
That is, if you wan’t a site that is accesible.
December 30th, 2005 at 9:16 am
you’re both idiots, how else your gonna enforce people to share ?
Know any solid ideas ? Let’s share them !
But i do think your like the articles writter, a looser who only wants to get things without sharing, now who’s greedy ?
December 30th, 2005 at 9:23 am
This is not a private tracker it is a locked down server and no one on earth can get in except for members. But why even bother explaining the inner workings to a 12 year old.
December 30th, 2005 at 9:49 am
And suprnova was a bad place? other than being located in finland of course
December 30th, 2005 at 10:04 am
I’ve thought you’ve done some good work in the past, catflap, and I had a fair amount of respect for you. But I think that you’ve overdone it this time in posting your opinion about these sites. While I do agree that charging $25 for ftp access is ridiculous, offering upload credit for donation is a widespread and acceptable practice. Our BT communities would not exist without the servers they are hosted on. It can be time consuming and costly. If someone expects these sites to remain available for everyone’s usage, you should expect to see lots of ads floating around the site, such as here, or expect to see a donation button. I dislike ads, and generally will never click them, but I have been known to donate on occasion.
The folks operating these sites are just like you and I. They have real lives, jobs, families, and bills to pay. If they wish to ask for help in paying for the site/tracker that WE use, you shouldn’t fault them for it. You don’t HAVE to donate. Offering upload credit should be a praised practice. We all are limited by our bandwidth, and some more so than others, like our good friends over in New Zealand. Do they deserve to be left out of the p2p loop because there is no “fat pipe” available to them? I think not. If those people wish to part with their money to help fulfill the “ratio agreement” and support the sites that WE use, I have more respect for them.
I think it is very generous of the site ops to GIVE something EXTRA, for a DONATION. Ever donated to the Red Cross, catflap? Were they generous enough to give you something for your gesture?
Even the “free” public sites ask for donations, (not all, but most). They will usually ALL give something in exchange for your money, whether it be additional forum access, or a pretty little “donator” tag under your username. You might as well delete all of those from your bookmarks, too. While you’re at it, please add those site names to you’re list in the op-ed piece you’ve displayed here for all of us.
December 30th, 2005 at 10:22 am
PS: i really hope this site isn’t yours (the articles writer). What a outdated message system :-/
I was just thinking the same thing .. bloody pain in the arse
December 30th, 2005 at 10:25 am
On the list of pay sites you’ve mentioned, the bottom one is wrong, sorry you’ve got wrong information
December 30th, 2005 at 10:39 am
“Quote” open trackers that don’t monitor your usage or ban you for low ratios;
Just wondering how many private sites that have banned you for having a “low ratio” aka hit and running ?
Perhaps thats your grudge ?
December 30th, 2005 at 10:41 am
you’re both idiots
Everyone in this world is an idiot to at least one other
as for teh leech name calling flying around
just because someone hit’s and runs on 1 torrent doesn’t mean they’ve never shared on another or many others
not everyone has the time desire or whatever to always replace what they’ve taken on every single file
anyone who claims they’ve never leeched 1 file in their life is a bloody liar and anyone who believes them .. well i got some lovely florida swampland for sale
also all those users that brag about their 4:1 ratios and shit .. your almost as bad as all the leechers on the private trackers … making life harder for those who option NOT to pay for VIP to maintain a 1:1 ratio and not get booted. get a clue it can never add up to anything other than 1:1 system wide for 1 mb to be ul’d 1 mb had to dl’d
*rant off
December 30th, 2005 at 11:07 am
Does p2pnet facilitate the distribution of warez? NO. So if it wants to charge for its news and opinions it can - thats legal. If it wants to have adverts - thats also legal. Get a grip and see the difference
December 30th, 2005 at 11:28 am
Any thing can be gotten into. ANYTHING
Let me repeat and spell that out in case you are deaf or dense.
A N Y T H I N G!!!
TNO and CYA: trust no one and cover your ass
Just because a site hasn’t been taken down doesn’t mean it won’t be taken down. doesn’t mean it isn’t known.
The MPAA and RIAA are not GOD, they do have to set priorites and can’t do everything at once. Hopefully taht is not news to you or anyone else.
And remember the only ppl REALLY making money from p2p are the lawyers.
December 30th, 2005 at 11:38 am
How many of those small private trackers have you been banned from?
Thats a direct question. Whats the real agenda behind you exposing small private trackers to public scrutiny? You should grind your axe some where else.
December 30th, 2005 at 11:52 am
Catflap says :
“Anyone who wants to run a tracker knows that it costs money. If they aren’t willing to pay for it themselves, they have no business and no right running a tracker.” Seems to me that this would be a good example of the “elitist attitude” s/he’s complaining about….
In the real world, tracker op’s rely upon a range of contributions from members - new content, bandwidth, technical expertise, forum help, moderation, and sometimes cash. But there’s a balance here, and members soon disappear if an operator becomes greedy or unappreciative.
So thanks to catflap for a sincere & passionate opinion, but I don’t share it. If a group chooses to reward donations, or to award seniority to members who contribute time & skill, then other members simply have to decide if they feel this to be fair. If they don’t, they know where the door is….
December 30th, 2005 at 11:52 am
Dude you are such a moron. Most private trackers use 32 character key not an ip addresses to track ratio whether they take donations or not. Do a little research. You obviously don’t have the related experience or you wouldn’t say such nonsense.
Its about the sharing, some do it with bandwidth and some do it with money. They all do it voluntarily.
You should stick with Kaaza or eMule and leave BT to the big boys.
December 30th, 2005 at 12:04 pm
That single quote says it all, really.
What sort of jealous, vicious, unprincipled piece of shit would actually *want* to get another P2P community busted? That statement takes away any claim to high moral ground, and reveals a nasty, vindictive and malicious intent.
I use all kinds of trackers, and if I think that an operator is getting greedy or giving undue benefits to donors (or moderaters etc) then *I* decide whether to leave. I don’t appreciate being lectured or threatened about my choices.
December 30th, 2005 at 12:18 pm
well one thing I didn’t like was that i had to wait days before my upload was aproved for one thing. Wasn’t a ‘bad’ site though, it had issue’s….
December 30th, 2005 at 12:24 pm
hey, i am not talking about ONE hit and run. i am talking about leechers who are member for 10days+, leeched 20GB+ and gave back next to nothing.
Hit and run isn’t that bad, we all do it from time to time (well alot do). As long as you don’t do it ALWAYS and seriously seed some stuff it’s not a issue.
I know some sites are demanding 1 to 1 up/downloading. That’s a terrible thing to do and also hardly impossible to achieve. It’s all in balancing the amount of seeders vs leechers, keeping torrents alive and most of the community happy.
The (real) leechers should always be banned, period.
December 30th, 2005 at 12:32 pm
asking for donations is perfectly fina.. theres a ton of bt sites that survive just fine on donations… as far as im concerned if ya hafta sell others bandwidth ie. selling gigs ur site just blows, period
December 30th, 2005 at 12:36 pm
hi!
i have stated here several times that i do not know of ANY BT sites that force anyone to pay anything - EXCEPT for elitist VIP memberships.
i do NOT - as already stated - know if bitsoup charges for ftp access. that is what the text says and i only pasted it in the article.
i don