Goth site members in murder case
p2p news / p2pnet: Two web sites popular with Canadian youngsters have been named in a murder tragedy.
Police in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, have asked Nexopia.com to take down items after two people, one of them, a 12-year-old girl, were accused of murdering a family of three in Medicine Hat.
“Are you stalking me? cuz that would be super” and “WelcomeToMyTragicEnd” were posted on Nexopia.com by the girl, says the story.
The other accused is a 23-year-old man, “whom friends have said sparked a romance” with the 12-year-old after meeting her on VampireFreaks.com.
“Both sites have been previously named in connection with tragedy, including the trial for the murder of a 12-year-old boy in Toronto, and security scares, such as high school hit lists that have surfaced in Calgary,” says the Globe and Mail..
The girl, who looks much more mature than her age, and Jeremy Steinke, both of Medicine Hat, were remanded in custody yesterday, it says. They were arrested in Saskatchewan after Marc and Debra Richardson and their son Jacob, 10, were found dead in their home.
VampireFreaks.com features items by people, “with user names such as SuicideOfLove, TeenageOddity and RottingNails who share feelings of depression, loneliness and anger mixed with gallows humour,” says the Canadian Press.
“In recent weeks, the Grade 7 schoolgirl had abandoned her clean-cut look for a darker, Goth style with heavy eyeliner and makeup.”
“Vampirefreaks.com is brought to you by FuckTheMainstream.com,” says the site.
“You must be atleast 13 years old to sign up for this site. You may not create multiple profiles. Nudity is not allowed. Do not start any trouble or drama with other users on the site. You can only post pictures of yourself, do not use other peoples pics as your own. Any text or pictures that you store on the site must belong to you, you are not allowed to use any copyrighted material. No racist, sexist, nazi, prejudiced or otherwise ignorant imagery or text is allowed on the site. Your IP address is being logged, failure to abide by these rules will get your account deleted and you will be banned from the site.”
The FAQ says it’s the creation of a Brooklyn youth who started it 1999 when he was 15.
“I was just getting into the industrial scene, and I would draw random drawings and graffiti in my notebooks during class, just something to do when I was bored,” says the author.
“One of the prevalent things I would write would be ‘Vampire Freaks’, which I thought would be a cool name for a band or something, as I was also really interested in vampire stories at the time. And around the same time I also would draw a version of the VF logo, but with jagged teeth in it. So when I decided to make my own website, luckily ‘vampirefreaks.com’ was not taken so I decided to use the name.”
In 2004, “My son, Joshua was born,” the FAQ goes on.
“A month after his birth, the new version of Vampirefreaks was complete, I called it ‘Vampirefreaks 2.0′. I completely revamped the vampirefreaks website, and made it a new interactive profile website, programmed in php. The new format allowed anybody to join and post their pictures, compared to the previous system where I had to review everyone’s picture submissions and only choose a select few.”
Also See:
Globe and Mail – Pair accused in deaths of Alberta family posted messages on notorious websites, April 26, 2006
Canadian Press – Accused killers’ `blank stares’ anger watchers, April 26, 2006
April 26th, 2006 at 12:25 pm
vampirefreaks.com is horrible for psychotic teenages. a year ago i found a community there where teens came to discuss their interest in the columbine massacre and their desires to shoot up their skills. when reported to site admin, deletion was refused on the basis that incest “cults” (communitys) are allowed. I ended up having to go to the site owner to get them deleted.
April 26th, 2006 at 9:58 pm
THIS IS A REALLY horrible thing that has happend but also at vampirefreaks.com not all users are depressed and lonly.also not all are goths there is allot of preps,Skaters,ravers,and so on
just to let you know
April 26th, 2006 at 10:29 pm
vampirefreaks.com its not horrible…only if you know how to react and control yourself on the computer ya there`s stories out there about v.f but there are also storys about myspace which isn`t horrible either and people tht put these storys online don`t know what ur talking about becuz there is a way to pervent these things from happening and 90% of the people know how to do that so whatever
April 27th, 2006 at 1:04 am
I’m apart of the “Vampire Freaks” Website that you were horribly bashing. There is nothing wrong with that site, Just because Jeremy and I guess I’m not allowed to say the “12 year old” name, Just because they had an account on there does not make it bad. I know Jeremy and the 12 year old personally, Jeremy is one of my best friends, and Honestly None of the news papers are exactly right. I am goth. I do like both boys and girls. you have a #$%%!@ problem with it then up yours.
April 27th, 2006 at 1:38 am
Nothing wrong with them? They have been accused of the murder of three people, yeah, I think there are some slight issues involved. I kind of agree though. Just because there has been one or two incidents, that doesn’t mean that every member is screwed up. I know a couple kids that have an account, plus I used to have one too, and so far nothing bad has happened. On the newspaper issue, I’m waiting for more information, because the media can be a bitch at times.
April 27th, 2006 at 6:53 am
Vampirefreaks is notorious on the net for having a high number of immature idiots as members. The VAST majority of them are underage and think that the goth subculture is all about being rebellious and angry. In other words they don’t have a clue about the very subculture that they are trying to fit into. In fact a lot of them will claim that they don’t like being ‘labeled’ as ‘goth’ even though they attempt to copy they lifestyle according to what the mainstream media tells them that it is all about.
I have been of the opinion for a very long time that the site either has to be an 18+ or has to be taken down completely. The owner of the site is very immature and does not take steps to curtail the activity of the members. I have had many run-ins online with the owner and he can’t string a sentence together without using profanities.
April 27th, 2006 at 6:57 am
Wow…..your post is a prime example of the maturity level of the site. Kid, you are not ‘goth’. You are just an angsty little teen who is trying to rebel against society by acting just like every other brat on that site.
Nobody in the goth subculture takes that site seriously because it is filled with immature kids who don’t have a clue about the subculture. The fact that you are actually DEFENDING a murderer proves my point.
April 27th, 2006 at 7:12 am
The problem is that a lot of the kids on that site are very immature and disrespectful. The owner of that site,whom I have had run-ins with, is no better. The site needs to be shut down, or made into an 18+ site.
April 27th, 2006 at 7:14 am
But MOST users are young and very immature. It is a breeding ground for angst. NOBODY on the internet takes that site seriously. In fact it is considered notorious due to the fact that it’s members are very immature.
April 27th, 2006 at 8:30 pm
As an administrator of VampireFreaks, I speak to the owner of the site all the time. I have had perfectly mature conversations with him without the use of any profanity.
I can understand why people think that the site is full of angsty “immature idiots”. After all, that’s all the media portrays the us as.
If people actually bothered to browse the site properly, you’d find a lot of caring people. There are plenty of “cults” on the site that are designed to help those that are in abusive homes or relationships for example.
Take a look at what you’re bad-mouthing before you cast judgement.
By the way, I’m 23. Not all of us are “underage (…) rebellious and angry”.
April 27th, 2006 at 9:47 pm
I have looked at the website before so I actually have a right to pass judgement on it. I think the site is filled with immature idiots because I have had run-ins with them on other sites, and because I have read the drivel that they post.The people on that site who ‘care’ are probably only 10% of the total members. The owner is a wanker who does not deal with criticism well, and who does not run his site properly. He has physically threatened me, and others, over the internet when we called him on his dubious claims of being some sort of ’scene king’. The only fans that he has are the members of his site, because NOBODY in the goth community takes him seriously. Go to goth.net, gothic.net, or any other well known goth message board, mention Vampirefreaks and see what kind of response you get.
There is post about these murders over at somethingawful.com, and a mod from your site has stated in it that Vampirefreaks has quite a few pedophiles cruising the site picking up on underage girls.They also mentioned that some of the administrators/mods have picked up on younger GIRLS on the site. That is sick. If you, or the owner, really cared about the state of the site then you would ban underage people who post half naked pictures of themselves, ban anti-gay and racist members, and raise the age limit to 18+. It is only a matter of time before the site gets shut down if changes are not made to it.
The vast majority of the people on that site ARE under the age of 21, so you must be an abberation. I hope that you are getting paid.
April 27th, 2006 at 9:48 pm
I have looked at the website before so I actually have a right to pass judgement on it. I think the site is filled with immature idiots because I have had run-ins with them on other sites, and because I have read the drivel that they post.The people on that site who ‘care’ are probably only 10% of the total members. The owner is a wanker who does not deal with criticism well, and who does not run his site properly. He has physically threatened me, and others, over the internet when we called him on his dubious claims of being some sort of ’scene king’. The only fans that he has are the members of his site, because NOBODY in the goth community takes him seriously. Go to goth.net, gothic.net, or any other well known goth message board, mention Vampirefreaks and see what kind of response you get.
There is a post about these murders over at somethingawful.com, and a mod from your site has stated in it that Vampirefreaks has quite a few pedophiles cruising the site picking up on underage girls.They also mentioned that some of the administrators/mods have picked up on younger GIRLS on the site. That is sick. If you, or the owner, really cared about the state of the site then you would ban underage people who post half naked pictures of themselves, ban anti-gay and racist members, and raise the age limit to 18+. It is only a matter of time before the site gets shut down if changes are not made to it.
The vast majority of the people on that site ARE under the age of 21, so you must be an abberation. I hope that you are getting paid.
April 27th, 2006 at 10:25 pm
JET IS GOD SO STFU
April 27th, 2006 at 10:52 pm
Im a 13 year old girl and i checked out the site and i completely agree. Its really sad. I’d never go on a site like that… its like a dark version of nexopia
April 27th, 2006 at 10:53 pm
People are blaming a website for murders, that seems a little off to me. You are using vampirefreaks as a scapegoat. The website did not cause the girl to meet the guy, the website did not cause the little girl to kill. Maybe if parents would watch their children a little more closely things like this would not happen. Obviously the people mentioned in this article are mentally ill. I am a proud vampirefreaks member and have been for two years. I have met people from the site, and I have not run into any problems. These people could have met anywhere and you see a site that is of “gothic industrial culture” and you shake in your little shoes and try to blame what is different. The word gothic just strikes fear into the everyday “normal” people. You really need to open up your mind. I am not defending the actions of the people in the article because they are horrible and utterly repulsive, but I am, however, defending the site that I love. People please just stop looking for scapegoats and deal with the people who committed those horrible acts. I mean do you blame someone’s hobbies for making them beat their wives or be violent towards other? No you don’t. VF is a hobby like any other.. communicating with people from across the world, finding people with similar interests. Everyone wants to find people who are like them, and you are trying to take that away from the members of VF.. its not fair. What if I moved to shut down your golf clubs or recreation centers. How would you feel?
I gather you would not like it very much. Just stop and think before you pass your quick judgements on VF.
Sincerly,
B-A
April 27th, 2006 at 11:52 pm
as a member of this web site i would like to start off by saying that it is not a websites job to regulate who interacts with who at any given time but vampirefreaks.com does the best they can given the simple fact of how many people now belong to the site.
blaming vampirefreaks.com for tragedies is quite dumb it is just another example of the media using an external entity as a scape goat instead of the people who are truly responsilble taking the blame
on this website there is of course a few bad seeds just like there are at every single website including Christan sites and so on. this web site is like an extended family on of support and laughter so to assume that this site is a plethera of sin and death is ignorant there is so much more here to be looked at
instead of blaming vampirefreaks.com for underage kids transgresions look at the parents that should have been watching them.
thank you
a member of vf.
April 28th, 2006 at 12:15 am
I don’t understand why people get so upset about this subculture that is expressed on vampirefreaks.com. To begin with, this site was not made for teenagers, but for everyone…and if parents can’t be responsible enough to monitor what sites their child’s go to then it is their own fault. And furthermore, a site, or a band is not what makes a psycho. No; society is what creates psychos. No one really seems to care that the president of the United States is going around bombing countries and trying to make inequality in a place that has prided itself on diversity. Instead, we’re too busy focusing on some web site that you can go on with your own free will. No one forces 12 year olds to put their profiles on this site…nor are they being forced to speak with people they don’t know…in fact…those people can be blocked. Now, don’t get me wrong, the death of a young person, or anyone for that matter, is always depressing, but you cannot blame a web site for it, because crime has been going on before the world became plugged in.
I just love how the media decides to blow things like this up. They fail to see the good things that go on on this site. Groups to help people feel better about their body image and ask for advice when having trouble with living. There is healthy discussion that is free of hedonism, death, or perversion.
All I would like to say is, don’t blame a web site, because in fact, there is no one to blame at all…all we must try to do is understand and talk to our children like people, and not animals.
April 28th, 2006 at 12:17 am
your 13, and you don’t matter
April 28th, 2006 at 12:23 am
Thats so messed up. Im a member of VampireFreaks.com. Blaming the website for actions of others is crazy. The website had nothing to do with it. They needed someone to blame this murder on, and what do they do? pin it on a goth website. The kid was psychotic in the first place, Blame the parents people, cause honestly, who has more effect on their child; parents or a website =/. Yeah its pretty obvious. But like VF.com said, Thanks for the free publicity!
April 28th, 2006 at 12:40 am
Hey guess what, you obviously didnt look around the site. You people hear ‘Gothic’, ‘Vampire’ etc. and jump to conclutions. PEOPLE GROW UP. People in the media have to portray everything as being bad, evil etc. Because its there job! Honestly, get your head checked. And everyone buys into it because they are mindless. Make your own dicetions, stop following the media, Its ignorint.
April 28th, 2006 at 1:59 am
People need to start understanding that a website should not be at fault for what the members do. There are many websites out there that have been blamed for some sort of crime being commited just because the people who commited the crime may have been members on the site.
VampireFreaks.com is not some website full of depressed people talking about how they want to kill themselves and things of that nature. There are many people on the site whom are “preppy” as opposed to gothic. Many people on there are happy people. Even someone who is a member of the Gothic subculture can be a happy person. It’s more music and style oriented than attitude.
My 16 year old daughter is a member of the website. There have been no problems with her using it at all. It’s just a place where people can talk to a variety of different people with different interests and opinions. They can discuss things that are important to them and just talk about normal teenage topics.
It’s not as bad as it’s made out to be.
People who blame the website and group the people on it into one catagory are just looking for something to blame. They are looking in the wrong place. It’s no one’s fault but the childs. She’s responsible for her own actions. Her, the people who raised her, and her “boyfriend.” No one else should have to take responsibility for this event.
April 28th, 2006 at 2:01 am
Don’t judge a book by it’s cover, little one.
April 28th, 2006 at 2:11 am
You have no right to say that all 500,000 + members on that website are “angsty little teens who are trying ro rebel against society by acting just like every other brat on that site.” That just shows how judgemental you are.
April 28th, 2006 at 2:14 am
There are bad people all over the internet. It’s not just on the darker sites. If one were to get on the popular, “lighter”, My Space, I’m sure you could find some creepy person. I for one, am a member of Vampirefreaks, and I’m a dedicated christian. I also have many of my close friends, in REAL life, that are on there, and they are all also good people. The website is not to blame…
April 28th, 2006 at 2:15 am
I completely agree with everything you said. Thank you for proving everyone wrong who has grouped all of the members into the “angsty teen” catagory. You have proven that there are intelligent people on VF and if people were to spend time on the website, they would quickly learn that for themselves instead of being so quick to pass judgement on something they know nothing about.
April 28th, 2006 at 2:23 am
I suggest that you people don’t say anything about Vampire freaks .. it is a great site .. where you can make friends. Just because two people had to be ignorate and give it a bad name is stupid. It was their own choice on meeting, how they dressed and acted, everything was on their part. Vf had nothing to do with this. They met on Vampire freaks as we all now, but the site and the people on it had nothing to do with it. So instead of saying something bad about a site you know nothing about you should double check before saying anything.
I love vampire freaks website.
It’s is most deffenate wicked!
Thanks much!
April 28th, 2006 at 2:24 am
As a message posted by the owner of VampireFreaks.com on the main page:
“VF IS EVILLLLLLL
* April 27, 2006 *
OK yes i know about VF recently getting some bad press. Honestly it’s a bit ridiculous that this site would get blamed for the actions of others. Obviously VF is blamed because of its dark theme, the media just loves to blame gothic / underground culture for things going wrong. Similar to certain bands getting blamed for kids doing stupid things. We do have admins that watch over the site and keep things in order, but obviously we are not responsible for the actions of everybody on here. This is a great, friendly and supportive community but in a site with half a million members, obviously there will be a few bad seeds. So, as a warning to underage members, as a general rule of thumb, be careful with who you meet over the internet. I’d like to say thank you to all the members who have been so supportive, and for seeing that the media just likes to point the finger at us because we don’t fit into their cookie cutter world. So to all the newspapers / reporters out there: thanks for the free publicity. ”
^ Take that as a sign that no matter what you all say or attempt to do, we will always be here. Even if by some HUGE MIRACLE the site gets disbanded… The people will always be here and there is nothing anyone can do about it. All you are doing is giving the site free publicity. You have no idea how many more members have joined since everyone started blaming VF. So, thank you everyone. Thank you for spiking the sites membership and showing just how ignorant people can be.
April 28th, 2006 at 2:28 am
People choose too ignore the lighter sites problems. They choose to pay no attention to the huge number of pedophiles who have been found on myspace and who have preyed on it’s members. Compared to MySpace, VampireFreaks is an incredibly safe website.
April 28th, 2006 at 3:06 am
Wow…way to show others how mature people on the site are. Good going, you just proved my point.
April 28th, 2006 at 3:08 am
If Vampirefreaks is a ‘goth’ website then Bush is the greatest president this country has ever had.
April 28th, 2006 at 3:19 am
‘Because we don’t fit into their cookie cutter world’.
So that was written by Jet? How old is he again, because that sounds like it was written by a 15 year old kid who thinks that nobody on the planet understands them. It’s funny that the people on that site say that they are ‘individuals’ and yet they all try to fit into the same mold. Want to be ‘goth’? Then be angsty, wear crappy make-up and use bad spelling. You are all the same, not different.
The other part of his paragraph that I find funny is that he attempts to look like the good guy by telling underage members to ‘be careful’ of who they meet. Don’t you think that is too little too late on his part. Especially considering that most of his members are underage.
People are joining after the tragedy because they want to see what kind of things the members are writing. You guys have a huge amount of people watching you and yet you,in general, are still acting like angsty,bratty,angry teens.
I have no doubt that the site will be taken down eventually. Bet on it.
April 28th, 2006 at 3:22 am
It’s easy to find out about the site. All you have to do is go to it and look at what is going on. It’s funny how you guys accuse people who disagree with the site as being close minded, and of not looking at the site. Well, I have been looking at the site and I find it one of the biggest jokes on the net.
April 28th, 2006 at 3:24 am
Nice way of proving the point that the majority of Vampirefreaks members are immature idiots.
April 28th, 2006 at 3:28 am
Well, kid, I have been into the hardcore punk AND the goth subcultures for the last 20 years so your point is invalid in my case.
I actually never take what the media says at face value. I came to the conclusion that Vampirefreaks is an awful site all on my own. You, yourself, are being close minded and ignorant by ASSUMING that people who disagree with you are brainwashed.
I would dare say that the majoirty of young members on that site are very brainwashed because they got ALL of their information about the goth subculture from the mainstream media and pattern themselves upon it.
April 28th, 2006 at 3:32 am
A 12 year old CHILD cannot be held fully responsible for their actions because they do not have the mental capacity, or maturity, to deal with critical situations. If you think that 12 year olds are able to think totally rationally then you are the one who is being ignorant.
I have been in both the hardcore punk and goth subcultures for the last 20 years, so NO I don’t blame the entire subculture for what happened. However, I am blaming the owner of the website for allowing CHILDREN like that girl to be able to post on a site such as that. The site needs tobe held accountable if they are not monitoring it properly.
April 28th, 2006 at 3:37 am
You are ASSUMING that all people who disagree with the website are rich people out to spoil your ‘good time’. I have been in both the hardcore punk and goth subcultures for the last 20 years ABD I think that the site is trash. What do you get when you mix a whole bunch of ansty teens who think they are goth, and idiotic behaviour? Vampirefreaks. By the way I said that probably 10 % of the site aren’t like that.
April 28th, 2006 at 3:40 am
Since I have witnessed the horror that is that site I have a right to pass judgement based upon my opinions.
April 28th, 2006 at 6:24 am
Now, it seems to me that people are concerned with vampirefreaks.com, and are in fact blaming the website for these murders. My major problem with this is that this childs problems cannot be blamed on a website alone.
People don’t know whether these actions arose from some incident at home, or somewhere else in her life. Granted, there is no proof that it didn’t come from the site, but hey… “innocent until proven guilty”, no one has proved the site to be the cause.
Also, people are blaming the website’s owner for not looking after and monitoring the site properly.
a) over 500 000 members makes the site very hard to monitor.
b) It’s the internet. On the internet, anyone can be anything they want to be. 45 year old men can be acting as 15 year old girls, and there is nothing that can be done about this. There is nothing but anonimity on the internet, so the owner cannot be blamed for that.
And what would shutting the site down do? It will thrust those that you are so concerned about out into the public, upset about one of their sources of entertainment, and newfound friends being shut down over two of the 500 000+ members. I would be a little more concerned by this rather than the site itself.
And on that note, one final argument. These days, Almost all profile/blogging websites have “goth” or “depressed and lonely” people. Are you going to get every one of those closed down too? Nexopia, MySpace, blogspot etc etc.
Think about who you’re blaming, think about why you’re doing it. Don’t be afraid of difference.
April 28th, 2006 at 6:25 am
I’ve been to both of their VF pages and I can say with 100% confidence that they DO NOT respresent the lot of of. Under her likes… it says she likes Serial Killers. And she says she’s insane. On his page, his opening statement is: “I believe in Blood, Destruction, Guts, Gore & Greed.” They were a disaster waiting to happen.
April 28th, 2006 at 6:27 am
A huge portion of them aren’t goth. Most of us don’t use it because it caters to the ‘goth’ community. We use it to communicate with people regardless of their scene.
April 28th, 2006 at 6:30 am
Try more like 30% or more. It’s no longer just a bunch of ‘goth’ kids. There have been floods of people from all different scenes joining the site this and last year.
April 28th, 2006 at 6:37 am
Who’s to say that she didn’t know EXACTLY what she was doing and what the consequences could be. Kids know more these days than ever before. They should be being held more responsible for their actions. As stated, her parents and the ‘boyfriend’ should be blamed for her actions that day as well. Although her parents are presumably no longer. With over 500,000 members you can’t keep an eye on everyone. It’s impossible. She was never incredibly active on the site either. Only recieving comments from her ‘boyfriend’ and a bunch of people saying how messed up she is for what she did. The accused didn’t even meet on the website. I don’t see why so many people are accusing VampireFreaks of being the major problem. How do you propose they monitor it properly? There’s no way to tell who really is the required age to join. There’s no way to read every single thing that everyone says to make sure no one is doing something they aren’t supposed to. It’s up to the members to report anything that wouldn’t normally be seen by Jet and the site Admins. That’s about as close as you can get to monitoring the website.
April 28th, 2006 at 6:42 am
In order to fully understand the site you need to take the initiative to join and interact with the members. Look through the cults. See the one’s that are doing good. Helping people with body image, abuse victims, support groups, advice, and other things of that nature. Of course like with any website there are people who are going to take things too far with the site and the ideas they have about it by trying to be ‘cool’ and prove how ‘goth’ they are. Those people are what give the site a bad name. The people who claim to be vampires, werewolves, suck blood, WORSHIP death metal bands, over-indulge in the stereotypes of the ‘gothic’ subculture. It’s not the rest of the sites fault that the world is full of idiots.
April 28th, 2006 at 6:55 am
In the event that it is taken down, it will have nothing to do with the murders. If you took down every site who’s members have commited a major crime, there’d be a TREMENDOUS amount of websites missing from the internet. No forums, profiles, gaming sites, say good-bye to XBox Live. A large portion of the website actually have a huge hate for people who use bad spelling. That’s all over the internet. People like to use chat speak everywhere and it’s really a problem with the whole entire internet and instant messaging communities, not a sole VF problem. Not everyone on the site claims to be an individual. And it’s really no ones fault if a person unintentionally fits into some stereotype. If you’ll read a bunch of the VF profiles, a lot of people actually state how they don’t like angsty people and how they are actually happy and satisfied with their lives. He shouldn’t have to constantly drill into peoples heads to be careful who they meet either. It should be common knowledge by now of what you should and shouldn’t do on the internet. It is the parents responsibility to teach their kids about that. Like when you’re younger and they teach you not to speak to strangers or ‘take candy from strangers.’
A lot of the people who are joining aren’t in it just to watch us. The majority of them are actually making real profiles that they took the time to add pictures to and fill out completely. Talking to people, commenting them, all of the things the usual VF user does. Nothing different about them as opposed to someone pre-murder.
April 28th, 2006 at 9:29 am
The current trend among young people these days is to deny that they are attempting to fit into a subculture so that they can seem unique. It is so common a phenomenon that each of them is acting exactly the same as the other in order to seem ‘different’ and special.
If most of you are just using it to communicate with other people why then do a lot of you choose really wannabe ’spooky’ user names? Also, why do a lot of the members degrade on ‘preps’ and blame them for all of their problems?
April 28th, 2006 at 9:33 am
If they are not attempting to be ‘goth’ then why are they joining the site? The owner himself says that it caters to the ‘goth’ community. Reguardless of the subcultures that they are attempting to be a part of,and ape rather badly, the majority of them have the same angsty attitude and are under the age of 21. There aren’t that many people above that age on there because because the maturity level is so low.
April 28th, 2006 at 9:35 am
Actually the website could demand a credit card number for age verification. Sites that are 18+ do that so that underage kids have a harder time joining. An easy step to take.
April 28th, 2006 at 9:40 am
I take part in message board communities that don’t include people such as the ones involved with Vampirefreaks. They don’t join them because their stupidity isn’t tolerated for very long. If the site was better monitored then you guys wouldn’t be having the problems that you do. I have NOTHING in common with most of the members because I am in my 30’s and actually know a huge amount about the hardcore punk and goth subcultures. Posting there would be like banging my head against a wall.
April 28th, 2006 at 9:49 am
I can guarantee you that there are now members of the FBI monitoring the site for pedophiles since the murders happened. They have made profiles and are pretending to be just like you guys. There are also police personnel from various areas of the country probably doing exactly the same thing.
It should be common knowledge but a whole lot of teens do not use common sense when it comes to the internet. That is why it is important that a site that has a huge amount of underage members, like Vampirefreaks, be well monitored by administrators. If the site has too many people for the staff to handle then that is the problem of the person in charge. Regulate who can make a profile by making the site 18+. Oh wait, if you did that then the owner wouldn’t be raking in the cash like he is doing now. In the end it is all about money, isn’t it? Create a site in which you tell all of the members that they are individulas, and see teens flock to it like lemmings.
April 28th, 2006 at 9:56 am
A lot of the sites that you mentioned have members of various ages on it. Vampirefreaks is wideknown for attracting mostly underage members.
I am not ‘afraid’ of difference. I was taking part in the hardcore punk and goth subcultures 20 years ago, so that argument isn’t going to work with me.
If there are too many members on the site for it to be moderated properly then whose fault is that? It is the owner’s fault for allowing the community to grow to an unmanagable size. It is obvious that it is all about him raking in the cash. I am all for people making money, but when it comes at the expense of the safety of minors then I have a problem. If he made it 18+ and made people enter a credit card number to join then the site wouldn’t have so many problems.
April 28th, 2006 at 9:57 am
I have seen other profiles that say almost exactly the same things. It would make sense to take those kind of profiles down.
April 28th, 2006 at 10:09 am
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/412902p-349030c.html
A repeat 23 year old pedophile who raped a 16 year old in his house, whom he met on the site. He was caught because the 13 year old that he wanted to meet turned out to be an undercover cop. If this isn’t more proof that the site needs to be better monitored then I don’t know what is.
April 28th, 2006 at 11:13 am
I know quite a few people who don’t try to fit into anything but by doing the things they like, dressing the way they like, and acting the way they GENUINELY like, people tend to group them anyway.
What does someone’s username have to do with their intentions on the website? Absolutely nothing.
There are plenty of people on ‘lighter’ sites such as MySpace with really weird and creepy names.
I have rarely come across profiles with people blaming things on preps. Most of the people on the site thing that it’s stupid to hate someone because of what scene they’re in. Or at least the many people i’ve had the pleasure of talking to.
At any profile website you go to, you’ll find people blaming their problems on ‘preps’ or people from different scenes blaming it on eachother. I never said that VF was immune to that.
Another fact is that the site also has a HUGE number of ‘emo’ kids too on it. ‘Emo’ people are not goths or very similar to goths. Once again proving that there are a vast amount of people who aren’t joining the site to be more ‘goth’.
As a matter of fact, there could very well be more ‘emos’ then goths on the site. If you look at the cults and you search for any with the word ‘goth’ in their name… the most number of members in one of those cults is 1,287. Search for cults with the word ‘emo’ in their name and the highest number of members one of those groups have is 10,207.
April 28th, 2006 at 2:54 pm
Emo is nothing but a trend. Most of the kids claiming to be emo will turn around and claim to be something else in a year.
April 28th, 2006 at 3:02 pm
And it’s exactly the same with ‘goth’.
April 28th, 2006 at 3:05 pm
Because, regardless of who the site caters to, it’s still a profile site and people get on there to meet others. They may have ‘goth’ friends that join the site and refer them to it. There are plenty of reasons people who aren’t ‘goth’ would join the site.
There aren’t a huge amount of people in there later 20s on the site because there just plain aren’t a lot of older people who join profile sites like that. Either way, in a lot of cases, age doesn’t determine maturity.
April 28th, 2006 at 3:10 pm
Then VF would lose a massive amount of it’s users. Not to mention the money that those underage users pay for Premium accounts. A lot of adults are skeptical about entering their credit card numbers on the internet as well. Plus, not all adults have credit cards per say.
To make it 18+ wouldn’t eliminate the problem. There are HUNDREDS of other profile sites out there who have the same problems that VF does. It’s impossible to get rid of every site that has something wrong with it like this or to make them all 18+. How about XBox live. We’d have to make that 18+ too. However, then the company would take a massive blow to it’s profits. A lot of it is about money and making wise business decisions.
April 28th, 2006 at 3:16 pm
Who are you to say why people don’t join websites? People don’t all join for the message boards. It’s a PROFILE SITE. It’s impossible to monitor the website like that. There’s over half a million members. You can’t keep track of all of them. And how would we not have this problem. They didn’t post their plans on VF, they didn’t do anything that would let anyone at VF know what they were doing. VF being better monitored would not change the fact that they are members and would still be associated with the site. What about Nexopia? Why aren’t people blaming them? The accused both had pages on that website and no ones drilling them. We don’t care about your reasons for not joining the websites. The reasons that you’ve stated plenty of times all over here.
April 28th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
It doesn’t matter to us that there are FBI people monitoring the website. That’s no secret. Police and other law enforcement agencies always do that with many different websites, chatrooms, instant messengers, etc.
If the child doesn’t use common sense, it’s their parents faults. They should be taught everything about what could happen and what they should and shouldn’t do. It’s their parent’s jobs to monitor what their child is doing. Maybe the parents should take more responsibilty by blocking the website.
MySpace doesn’t tell people they’re individuals and everyone and their mother (literally… their mothers) have myspace accounts. Well over the 70 million mark actually. So, it’s not the ‘individuality’ aspect that has teenagers ‘flocking’.
I don’t blame him for doing it for the money. He has a wife and kid to support. You have to do what you have to do to make a living and bring in some cash.
April 28th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
Any profile site you go to is going to attract an enormous amount of underage users. It’s not solely a VampireFreaks problem.
So, then, no one should sell guns. Because, selling guns could endanger the safety of minors. Right? That’s what your logic is saying.
No matter what, pedophiles are always going to find kids EVERYWHERE they can. They’ll stalk the schools, they’ll get on the internet, they’ll just drive around for awhile until they FIND a kid. There’s no way to keep your kid 100% safe. No matter what you do.
Either way, pedophilia isn’t the major issue regarding this article. It’s murder. For that, the website should not in any way be held responsible.
April 28th, 2006 at 3:32 pm
Then they should do so. You can report these things to the site admins and they will do what they need to. I personally think that those kinds of people really don’t belong on the website or any website. They belong in a mental ward. You obviously have to have some form of mental illness if you are so fixated on death and destruction, blood and gore, violence and murder…
April 28th, 2006 at 3:35 pm
This is the first huge pedophile incident with VF. There have been PLENTY with other websites. Especially MySpace.com. Which is actually MANY times less safe than VF. I think people should be more focused on improving the safety on a much larger, much less safe website like myspace before they go after VF.
April 28th, 2006 at 4:06 pm
Kids that chase after trends have no minds of their own. Pretty sad.
April 28th, 2006 at 4:08 pm
It’s sad then that kids are being exploited by adults in order to make a buck.
April 28th, 2006 at 4:10 pm
I have witnessed on that site adults remarking to underage girls that they are hot,etc…. If others actually told administrators about behaviour like that then there wouldn’t be such a problem.
April 28th, 2006 at 4:13 pm
I have seen MANY adult men try to pick up on underage girls on that site so this case probably isn’t the first that has happened. The creep was only the first one to get caught.
April 28th, 2006 at 4:15 pm
“You’ve seen them many times before. The darkly dressed and quiet ones huddled in the shadowed corner of a crowded room; the artists whose written or visual works raises eyebrows and cause average heads to shake in disapproval; the ones who walk down the street causing people to stare and scowl and toss names and obscenities. You’ve also seen the others. The young ones who suddenly begin dressing in black and becoming aggressive; the teens who make certain never to smile and to revel in angst and anger; the ones who take out their anger on others with guns and knives and bombs, and think they look ‘cool’ doing it. You know them both, but how well do you know either? Do you understand the difference, or do you lump them together as a self-same group of wayward kids?” http://www.whitefantom.com/goth/
People of the mainstream society view the gothic culture from a negative viewpoint. Unfortunately, the stereotypes that the culture has been given are negative and that is why people see it so.
Stereotypes of the gothic scene:
Depressed,
Unusually bigoted,
Violent,
Suicidal,
Involved in illegal drugs,
Vampires or believe themselves to be vampires,
Sado-masochists,
Satanists,
Musicians, painters, and other artists,
Computer programmers (although there seem to be a lot of them)
Wearers of black (some wear white and gunmetal),
Dyers of their hair,
Users of white makeup.
Yes, I am a member of the Vampirefreaks site. I have never entertained thoughts of killing another person. The theft of someones life is purely disgusting. In fact I cannot kill even the tiniest creature. I have the greatest respect for all life and I enjoy the beauty in it. As far as the Gothic “obsession” with death, the more appropriate word might be “acceptance,” or “acknowledgement,” or “respect.” One of the reasons why the Gothic viewpoint is so foreign and frightening to most people is because it challenges the way we traditionally think about “unpleasant” things.
I have never tried to kill myself. I do not cut. I am not violent. I much rather prefer sitting under a tree reading, or taking photos of beautiful old buildings or nature. I do not take drugs, I never have and I never will.
No I am not a Satanist. Nor am I Christian.
Yes, I get depressed every once in a while, but hell, doesn’t everyone?
Yes I am a artist. And yes, some of the art I like is macarbe.
Yes I dye my hair, as do many people of the general population.
I am a gentle, loving person.
‘Goths tend to be non-violent, pacifistic, passive, and tolerant. Many in the media have mistakenly associated Goth with extreme violence and hatred of minorities, white supremacy, etc.’ Taken from http://www.religioustolerance.org/goth.htm.
One thing that saddens me, is the way that kids these days have taken the gothic image and twisted it into something seen as evil and obscene.
I see them in the city here. They run around wearing Marliyn Manson shirts, with their nails painted black and their spiked collars shouting obsceneties and raising eyebrows. This is not what the goth culture is about at all.
I felt rather ashamed recently, for the whole gothic subculture. I was sitting quietly on the train staring out of the window dreaming. I was wearing some beautiful clothes (yes black), when some ‘gawth’ kids came on the train.
They started making a racket and showing off in front of the other passengers. Screaming about lighters and rollies. The girls were in trashy looking plastic corsets (now corsets are beautiful, but not like that) and ripped fishnets, and the guy was in black baggy clothing ripped fishnets and spiked collar. I happen to know that these kids were from up in my area and are quite a few years younger.
I was embarrassed to be in the same carriage. I did not want the passengers on the train to associate me with these socially deranged idiots. The point I am trying to make, is that Goth, and ‘Gawth’ are totally different subcultures and should Not be confused.
“Goth is the ability to find the art where art seems to be lacking; to find the light in the darkness and embrace it for all its worth”.
Now. The murders. This was a terrible incident. One that sickens me. I cannot fathom how they could do such a thing.
But why should the rest of the culture be seen to be like that?
In any culture there are always going to be people who are disturbed and creepy, disturbed enough to actually commit these horrible crimes.
These people deserve to be punished for what they have done by the full extent of the law. And I hope that this happens.
Also, I think that if you visit the profiles of these people on the vampirefreaks site and have a look at the comments people have made since the murder happened, everybody is sickened by what happened.
The saying “Dont judge a book by it’s cover” is extremely relevant in this situation. Each and every person who is seen as ‘goth’ is different, and should not be unfairly stereotyped.
April 28th, 2006 at 4:27 pm
The reason that they are charging at VF with their horns lowered rather than focusing on much larger and unsafe site, I think has to do with the fact that they are frightened of the unknown.
People of alternative culture are always going to be used as scapegoats simply because a select few are sick idiots. We have to get used to that.
April 28th, 2006 at 4:36 pm
I wish that people would stop saying that ‘People hate us because we are different’. People are focusing on VF because the majority of the users write stuff about the following:
1. Cutting themselves
2.Wanting to harm others.
3. Taking drugs
etc…
It’s because of kids like that that the ‘goth’ subculture has been given a bad name. Before ‘turning’ goth became trendy the subculture was totally ignored. When I went to high school in the 80’s there wasn’t even the term ‘goth’ around. Instead we were called modern rockers or alternative. Now the word ‘alternative’ has been raped by the mainstream media and a bunch of self proclaimed ‘goth’ teens are getting all their information about the subculture from the mainstream media.
April 28th, 2006 at 5:18 pm
At the expense of people getting molested and others getting killed? Wow…what a great way to support your family.
April 28th, 2006 at 8:13 pm
It’s not pedophilia to say that someone underage is hot. That’s not actually trying to pick up the person.
April 28th, 2006 at 8:18 pm
He can’t be blamed directly for any pedophilia that happens. The site isn’t meant for that. But, people sometimes use it for reasons other than it’s meant. A gun is meant for protection, if someone kills themselves with it, can you blame the manufacturer? No, because the gun wasn’t meant for that use, the person just used it like that.
VF is not in any way responsible for the people getting killed so, that’s irrelevant. As far as molestation… It’s going to happen everywhere no matter what. All over the internet in every single site and page you can find, on your streets, in your schools, possibly in your own home. There’s nothing we can do to prevent it. No matter if we get all of the thousands of profile pages shut down or if they’re made 18+. No matter what, it’s ALWAYS going to be there.
April 28th, 2006 at 8:25 pm
Just because some users write about that it does not represent all of the members. People will write what they want. People write things like that in school essays even.
A good majority of the ‘wanting’ to hurt others isn’t serious. It’s like when someone does something and you go “i’m gonna kill you!” You aren’t seriously going to kill them (unless you have serious mental issues). It’s just a figure of speech.
I do, however, agree that people should give up the whole “we’re different, they hate what they don’t understand, blah blah blah” thing. It’s played out and annoying. Quit playing the victim, people.
April 28th, 2006 at 8:38 pm
Alrighty, let’s see here…
Stereotypes of the gothic scene:
Depressed – That would be a no. Like everyone else, I have my moments, but it’s just that… a moment.
Unusually bigoted – Nope
Violent – I’m not a violent person myself. I won’t even kill bugs.
Suicidal – I have never one tried to kill myself or seriously thought about it.
Involved in illegal drugs – No, just like almost every person… i’ve tried a drug, but, never touched it after that.
Vampires or believe themselves to be vampires – I know for a fact that I am a human…
Sado-masochists – Nope.
Satanists – I’m an agnostic.
Musicians, painters, and other artists – Ehh… I write stories… does that count?
Computer programmers (although there seem to be a lot of them) – I am horrible in that area. So, no.
Wearers of black (some wear white and gunmetal) Not too obsessively. I have two dogs and two cats. Anyone who has sat there with a lint roller trying to get all of the animal hair off of their black clothing would understand why.
Dyers of their hair – …What does that have to do with anything. Sure, I dye my hair. Older people die their hair all the time to hide the greys coming in.
Users of white makeup – Nope. I think a bunch of white makeup looks silly.
So, there we go. I think that’s some serious misinformation those people have.
Very good posting. I’m glad you’re one of the people who understands that the best way to handle things is with intelligence and not statements such as “OMGZ! fucK you! you hate us CuZ we’re different!”
April 28th, 2006 at 8:45 pm
An adult telling an underage person that is disturbing. Adults should know better than to do that. I, as an adult, would never tell an underage person that because it is wrong, and also I don’t think of people that age as attractive since they are so much younger than me.
April 28th, 2006 at 10:14 pm
Honestly, if you’re a parent, look more at yourself, for crying out loud!
If your child changes drastically like this and you’re concerned, there’s only one thing you can do: TALK!
Talk with your children and see why they’re doing what they’re doing.
Hell, I’m 17, been on the site for close to a year, and it’s the best community compared to where I live.
In my community, there are nothing but people that make me feel insignificant because of the fact that I choose.
I choose to be myself, even though I’ve found it can be depressing and hatefilled.
But this site is not to be persecuted because of the violence of others.
And to whom ever said “I’ve had run-ins”, chances are, you pissed off someone.
I would contiune, but I’m prolonging this debate.
Thank you.
April 28th, 2006 at 11:03 pm
I pissed off Jet so much that he made internet threats against me. The guy is an ego maniac. Question him in any matter and you will be told to go die, and that he will beat you up. Nice guy!
April 29th, 2006 at 1:41 am
Before your start accusing us, goths, punks, emos, metal heads, satanits, and Wiccans and accusing our culture, lifestyle choices and religion, please I ask you to consider this; if someone from the christian relgion had murdered someone, the religion would not be accused, instead they will find something wrong with the person. If a rich person, business owner, decided to murder someone for one reason or another, I do not believe their life style would be accused, but yet again, people would look for something wrong with the person.
Well, Goths are classical people with alternative life-styles, and are often Wiccans, hence believing in the Gods.
Punks, are rebells, not murderers!
Emos, are emotional punks, may harm themselves, but that’s a symptom of depression and need of attention NOT of the subculture.
Metal Heads, may often worship satan, that does NOT mean that they are serial killers and are dare I say screwed up in the head.
Me personaly, I may fall under many of the catagories, but many of me and my friends are activists, I am a new generation hippy and like to keep it that way.
Everywhere we go we will come across people who seem to be flawed, screwed up, or corrupted in some way.
Keep the media away from us! We do not ask to shine under the spot light that is the constant watch of Jail! We are NOT criminals, we are liberated, we’re free, we’re opinionated, and we, like everyone else can and are good people!
Accusations hinting on the website from this and other two version of this article are ofending to me and many others.
That is all I have to say, any commentary to what I said, my e-mail is united.hell@hotmail.com
I do not wish to keep this annonymis, because I do not care enough to do so, but keep my e-mail away from public at all costs!
April 29th, 2006 at 2:57 am
Religion has absolutely nothing to do with this… so there was really no point in bringing religion into this.
As with all murder cases, even the ones for the “rich, business owners who decide to kill someone,” they examine the persons lifestyle and hobbies to see if there may be any connection.
You do realize that you… yourself are stereotyping people, right?
“Punks are rebels! Not murderers!”
…Plenty of ‘punks’ murder people…
Either way, I don’t even get why you are bringing all of the groups into this conversation and blatantly stereotyping all of them whether it be intentional or not.
No one gets that saying that ALL people of a subculture are good is being judgemental and ignorant as well. In every group there are people capable of murder and many other horrible things. A lot of them really aren’t good people. No matter what scene.
And to think… we are fighting the same battle…
By that I mean that we both are trying to convince people that the blame belongs elsewhere yet you are doing a horrible job at it.
April 29th, 2006 at 3:05 am
I, personally, do not have a problem with people who are seriously into the punk and goth subcultures. I have been listening to both forms of music for 20 years now, so if I were to say that the murders were the subculture’s fault then I would be a hypocrite of a sort.
Instead, I partially blame young people who are stereotypically goth and punk. Before it became ‘trendy’ to be goth or punk both subcultures were almost NEVER reported upon in the media. Why? Because the members of the subculture were not into them in order to just garner attention. They were in it for the music mainly.
These days teens seem to latch on to every subculture that the mainstream media waters down and throws at them. These teens will listen to the bands that the mainstream media call ‘goth’ and will dress how they tell them to dress so that they can ‘fit in’.
The problem with Vampirefreaks is that the majority of the members there fall into the above described catergory. They call themselves individuals and yet they all have the same views and the same angst filled behaviour. The mainstream press ASSUMES that the goth subculture is entirely made up of those kind of people. It’s a big circle jerk. The media waters down a subculture,sells it to teens, then turns around and proclaims that the teens are evil,depressed,etc…
If people from Vampirefreaks did not buy into the stereotypes then a lot of people wouldn’t have a problem with the site.
Punks, by the way are not self made rebels. Punk was originally about standing up for what you beleive in, and fighting for it. Only teens who buy into the mainstream media’s idea of punk believe that it’s a ‘rebellion’ thing, because that is what they have been told.
Goths are ‘classical people’? No kid. Goth music is an offshoot of punk. It was basically invented by bands such as Christian Death as a non violent form of punk music. Punk bands were growing violent in the early 80’s so ‘goth/deathrock’ was an alternative.
Old school emo was actually a music genre and had nothing to do with getting specific haircuts,etc… The people who are claiming to be ‘emo’ these days are buying into what the mainstream media tells them that emo is. It is just another marketing tool used by the mainstream media, and other corporations, to sell product to teens who think that being emo is ‘different’.
April 29th, 2006 at 3:37 am
Honestly take one good look at MySpace and Xanga. There is always going to be some freak on a website thats preying upon some teen. It’s the teen’s fault for putting a gun to her face in front of a camera, you can’t be smart if your doing that so don’t make a big deal out of it because they’re lots of stupid people like that. If you really want to be “safe” then WATCH your kid and throw out you computer.
April 29th, 2006 at 10:59 am
People who become a part of a certain scene usually try to imitate what the people in the music of that scene are doing.
‘Goths’ get the wrong idea of what kind of music is ‘Goth’ and decide to model themselves after their favorite bands… which tend to be things such as Slipknot, Cradle Of Filth, HIM, and others like that.’ So, by having a false sense of which music is truly ‘goth’ they have found other bands and claimed them as oh-so-gawf and try to immulate them.
That’s what the ‘emos’ did. There was and is a huge uprise in bands who call themselves ‘emo’ and the kids just imitated how the members of the bands looked and what they did.
It’s really a lack of education regarding music generas and things of that nature.
If they’d do the proper research, they’d figure out that they are most definitely got ‘goth’ and had no idea what ‘goth’ really is.
Most of my peers (i’m 16) have never heard of bands such as Christian Death. They don’t bother to look into the subculture and learn what it’s really about. They just go off of what the media and the rest of the musically uneducated people are feeding them.
April 29th, 2006 at 11:01 am
If I made typos, didn’t spell something correctly, or just flat-out didn’t make sense… sorry. It’s 6AM where I live and it’s really not an hour that i’m functioning all too well.
April 29th, 2006 at 1:16 pm
Actually there are over 40,000 people over the age of 21 on the site. I think thats a pretty large number considering most older people do not join profile sites.
I also agree age does not determine maturity. There are people in their 30s who have yet to grow up. Again blaming age is another scapegoat to avoid dealing with real issues.
B-A
April 29th, 2006 at 2:16 pm
Age IS part of the problem with that site. If only 40,000 people out of 500,000 are over the age of 21 that means that the vast majority of members are young. If you are trying to say that the site is filled with mature acting individuals then you are lying.
April 29th, 2006 at 2:17 pm
You are totally correct.
April 29th, 2006 at 4:22 pm
VampireFreaks is a great site.
Yes there’s people who are depressed but you get that anywhere.
April 29th, 2006 at 4:24 pm
It’s a great site – people have freedom of speech. They can be who they want without discrimination – if they want to discuss depressing subjects they can!
April 30th, 2006 at 10:13 am
That is completely messed up. Most people on vampirefreaks.com aren’t just “gothic.” I’m a member of vampirefreaks and most people there are very kind towards each other. It’s peoples own stupidty for hooking up with people too old for them. I mean, some girl’s parents were killed because of what happened on MySpace but nothing major was said. My username on vampirefreaks is xACutTooDeepx and its not to be dark or anythnig, it’s based on a poem I wrote. Just because people were black doesn’t give you the right to discriminate and blame them for everything. You people fear what you do not understand. I’m 13 years old. I wear black and yet I wear pink. Does that make me a bad person? My brother wears all black and he’s in the Army National Guard, is he a bad person?
Just because of someone’s user names, you make us out to be horrible people who think of suicide, murder, death, and dark things all the time. Well excuse me, most of the usernames are created after songs, things that pop into their minds, or just to think of something so different that’ll make you stand out.
What does any of the FAQ have to do with this. If people want to know about it, they can go look. Go on vampirefreaks and actually read someone’s profile. Here, go onto mine. http://www.vampirefreaks.com/u/xACutTooDeepx
or go onto my best friends:
http://www.vampirefreaks.com/u/v3lv3txt34rs
Now tell me if we’re bad people.
-xACutTooDeepx
April 30th, 2006 at 10:22 am
How are the members of vampireferaks immature idiots? Just because of someone’s stupid comment? I’m 13 and I have more maturity than half you people here! I understand why you blame vampirefreaks, but grow up and look at our side of this. Just because 2 people messed up and did something really stupid, the site gets blamed. How do you know they met there? The only way of knowing is if you talk to the 2 that did the killing. Maybe if you actually talked t some of the other members, you wouldn’t see the whole site as being “a horrible site.”
You think vf is so bad, check out these to links.
http://www.vampirefreaks.com/u/xacuttoodeepx MY profile.
http://www.vampirefreaks.com/u/v3lv3txt34rs My best friends.
Now are we really dark?
–xACutTooDeepx
April 30th, 2006 at 10:28 am
1)The usernames are to either be based on a band/song/lyrics/etc., something that just popped into their heads, or, are something thouhgt of to sound unique. My username is based on a poem that I wrote, A Cut Too Deep=xACutTooDeepx
2)Most of us don’t blame our problems on “preps.” I have my own set of problems for my own mistakes, or fighting with parents. I’m in 7th grade and I’m 13. I am friends with the most preppiest girls in my whole school. Yet I wear black.
It’s pretty pathetic if a 13 year old little girl can prove a point, to adults.
April 30th, 2006 at 10:34 am
Oh really? My brother has been wearing black for 5 years. And for saying that you may think he is automatically a bad person right? (I’m not saying most will think that but I know how people are, they’re will be a few) My brother is in the Army National Guard.
I’ve been wearing black clothes for 2 years now. Am I a bad person? Just for wearing dark clothes, heavy make-up, and likeing angrier music? No. I’m 13 and I have so many plans for my life. And it’s not to be something dark either. I want to be a model or go into the Army as well. Does wearing black make me such a bad person? If you actually want proof that I’m not a bad person, click this. http://www.vampirefreaks.com/u/xACutTooDeepx
No, and in some cases, yes it is a trend. But others, it isn’t.
–xACutTooDeepx
April 30th, 2006 at 10:38 am
Pretty sad that you don’t realize that we’re just kids and that’s what we do. And sad that you don’t even know EVERY kid to be able to say that. I don’t automatically like somethng if its “in.” Do you see me listening to all the new artists? No. If I hear a song that I like from them, I’ll listen. When Panic! At The Disco came out, I didn’t bother with trying to be “cool” by listening to them. I heard a song from them on MTV and liked it. You can judge people all you want, but please, get to know who they really are before you go run your mouth.
-xACutTooDeepx
April 30th, 2006 at 10:47 am
Seriously? We are all immature? Well excuse me, you don’t know me. I can prove points to adults and my opinion is taken into thought. I’m 13 years old. Yes, I will agree that SOME people on vf are immature but that doesn’t mean everyone is. Half of us are still teenagers. Which entitles us to act as immature as we want. But read over everyone of the comments on this subject and you will see that alot of the adults are immature as well. This is I think my 6th comment on one subject. People, grow up and actually talk to some of the peple on the site. Most of us can actually carry on a conversation longer than 5 minutes about a book or something intelligant. I’m 13 years old and I know how to express my opinion without being immature. Wow, most adults will be shocked since “ALL” vampirefreaks users are immature!
–xACutTooDeepx
http://www.vampirefreaks.com/u/xacuttoodeepx
theres my link, tell me what you think of us now?
April 30th, 2006 at 10:53 am
You cannot say you have “witnessed the horror” Do you have a vampirefreaks account?
If not, you can’t say anything about it. Yeah killing people is wrong I know that. But what makes it okay to call all of us immature?
-xacuttoodeepx
April 30th, 2006 at 11:11 am
How would you know unless you are an active member of the site?
–xACutTooDeepx
April 30th, 2006 at 11:29 am
ok now I really need to step in.
CUTTING-I know many people who don’t even dress in black who do it. Cutting is something that can calm people down when done. Yes, I am a cutter and I do belong to that site. But I’vebeen cutting longer than I’ve been apart of that site. I’m in counseleing now to try and stop because I WANT to.
HARMING OTHERS-How do you know it’s not just anger being vented? I’m apart of that site, my brother is, most of my friends are and they don’t want to harm other people.
DRUGS-Not all people on vf use drugs. Like atleast 1/3 of the people on vf doesn’t. And when my parents were young, they smoked pot. Does that mean they’re on vf? NO.
Don’t judge people before you actually know them if you want to sound mature and have your thoughts taken seriously
-xACutTooDeepx
April 30th, 2006 at 11:42 am
Wow, you call us immature? You’re the one badmouthing kids you don’t even know.
I’m thirteen and I have more maturity than you. I don’t bad motuh thing’s I do not know or understand.
–xACutTooDeepx
April 30th, 2006 at 2:12 pm
If vampirefreaks.com had been a site about children running through fields of long flowing grass, and cute little puppy’s and kitten’s, and all that is good and pure in the world. NO ONE would be wrighting this crap! fact is the only reason vampirefreaks.com is a target is because the people on the site are “goth” or “freaks” and to me, thats as bad as hateing a man because he is black or jewish. It makes me sick! the length the media will go just “to get thier story” and you ALL can blow me” I am 21 years old and am a proud member of vampirefreaks.com, just because some stupid little twat met up with a guy and went on a killing spree doesnt make all of us like that, and of corse you will pin it on the rest of us!
Have a truely, horible day,
Proud member of vf
April 30th, 2006 at 2:20 pm
well, most people do not like ass holes.. what can i tell you… jet is a nice guy. i dont know you but chances are if i met you id say ALOT worse. people like you piss me off beyond any thing i have ever….. im not even going to finish that… I do belive you are a group of words i donot wish to descuss on this message board… id be glad to tell you off to ur face should i ever come in to contact with it…
April 30th, 2006 at 3:01 pm
Watch out….your lack of maturity is showing. Stop worshipping Jet, witnessing it is embarrasing.
April 30th, 2006 at 3:03 pm
I wouldn’t be able to talk to most of the members there because I have nothing in common with them, and I wouldn’t be able to read the horrible grammar that a lot of the people there use. There is no logical reason why a 35 year old person would spend a lot of time on that site.
April 30th, 2006 at 3:06 pm
When I was that age I did not follow the trends. There was no internet, so if you liked music or literature that was below the radar you actually had to go out and seek it. It’s easy to get to know who the members are. I have read the message board there and looked at some profiles. What I found wasn’t very pretty, to say the least. By the way I never mentioned that EVER single member was an immature idoit. Only the majority of them.
April 30th, 2006 at 3:11 pm
Anybody can wear black and call themselves goth. You are under the impression that wearing black makes a person ‘goth’ which is sad. I have been listening to ‘goth’ bands, and been in the subculture, for the last 20 years, so please don’t try to give me a mainstream interpretation of what goth is. When did I say that wearing black is bad? You are being paranoid. Your really young so I will forgive you.
You are 13, trust me it’s just a phase you are going through.
April 30th, 2006 at 3:14 pm
Your username had got to be one of the most stereotypical names that I have seen. The reason why the mainstream media thinks that all people involved in the goth subculture are depressed and disturbed is because of things like that. Fighting with your parents is not a ‘problem’ it’s part of growing up. It doesn’t in anyway make you unique or special. So what if you wear black….seriously.
You haven’t proved a point at all, rather you have proven the points that I have been making.
April 30th, 2006 at 3:21 pm
I just looked at your profile and you seem to be a very stereotypical member. You say that you hate everybody in general and you post pictures of yourself trying to look sexy. YOUR 13!!! Why the hell do you think it is okay for somebody your age to pose like that? Also the bands that you listened are all very mainstream and NONE of them are actually considered goth. I have been a goth/industrial dj so I am a bit of an expert when it comes to that. Please do some research into bands.
You are nothing but a stereotypical angsty teen who is being conned by the mainstream media into thinking that certain things are goth, when in fact anger, black clothes, crap music do not a goth make.
April 30th, 2006 at 3:23 pm
All I have to do is look at the message board,etc…, to see what is going on. Yes, I feel that it is okay to call you immature, because you are.
April 30th, 2006 at 3:24 pm
Again, I am going to say that browsing through the site is an easy way to get a feel for it. One does not have to be an active member to see the stupidiuty that goes on there.
April 30th, 2006 at 3:26 pm
Oh….I get it, I don’t understand what it’s like to be different. Oh…give me a break. I was in both the punk and goth subcultures before you were even born so stop playing the victim.
April 30th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
I have known cutters in the past and NONE of them would go online and brag about it. I can guarantee you that most of the kids on that site who claim to be cutters either aren’t or they are doing it just for the attention. That kind of crap really pisses me off because it belittles the real problems that other people have.
Kid, the more you post the more you prove my points. Thanks for participating.
April 30th, 2006 at 3:34 pm
I fear what I don’t understand? Again. I was into the subculture before you were even born so that kind of self pity crap doesn’t work on me. It’s quite easy for people to understand you. Your profile is totally stereotypical of what is on that site. You have ’sexy’ posed pictures of yourself, you claim to hate everybody, your username is ridiculous, and the music you list is anything but goth.
You actually make me sad, because you are nothing more than yet another teen who buys into the goth stereotype and who follows it like a lemming.
April 30th, 2006 at 3:37 pm
Thank you for be a shining example of everything that I have stated. You are yet another person who feels like you are ‘misundertood’. Oh please. People don’t like the site because most of you act like idiots, reguardless of what labels you call yourselves.
April 30th, 2006 at 4:35 pm
Who are you to tell us ‘immature little brats’ what ‘goth’ really is? If I’m not mistaken the TRUE Goths died out a long time ago. Just because it’s a fad to wear black eyeliner, heavy make-up, among other things doesn’t give you the right to say that we’re just the attention seeking immature children. Also, that you are posting on this arguing with ‘kids’ doesn’t make you any more mature then the rest of us. We’re trying to prove a fact that the site shouldn’t be shut down just because of two people on that site screwed up and murdered a family. It wasn’t the site that said ‘you have to go do this to prove your ‘gothness”. Then there’s the people like you, who are trying to get the site closed down, and make everybody on that site seem like such bad people because they like different things then you do. Just because you don’t agree with their style, and just because you can’t understand it, doesn’t give you the right to terminate it.
With that, I bid you ado.
April 30th, 2006 at 4:49 pm
I don’t understand their ’style’? What style? Most of those kids are stereotyping themselves based on images brought to them by the mainstream media. I wouldn’t call that ’style’ by any sense of the word, I would call that being unoriginal.
TRUE goths? Okay, I’m curious, tell me what a TRUE goth is and how they died out a long time ago. If your answer is the Visigoths and the Ostrogoths then please don’t bother.
I’m arguing with kids? Actually, I am just answering their statements. If you want to call that arguing so be it.
They like different things that I do? You are right about that. I was in the subculture before all of you were born, literally. The subculture that I have taken part in is NOTHING like the one that they THINK that they are taking part in. They are walking talking stereotypes of a subculture that few of them have even bothered to understand. Instead of doing research into the subculture they believe everything that the mainstream media says about it. If the media tells them that wearing black and crappy make-up is what makes you goth then they will do it. If they say that certain bands are goth then they will listen to them. Instead of ‘goth’ fitting into who they are they try to fit into a misinterpretation of what goth is.
April 30th, 2006 at 5:12 pm
Like I has said, my user name is based on a poem. Don’t label me another teen who buts into the goth sterotype, because you don’t even know me. And did you check out my bestfriends profile? If not here’s the link AGAIN
http://www.vampirefreaks.com/u/v3lv3txt34rs
Now if I was just like “every other Goth,” would I seriosuly hang out with someone who wear hollister and aero? Don’t label things. You are the acting like an immature little kid for doing the labeling.
April 30th, 2006 at 5:18 pm
Pick your words wisely then, because if you’re going to fight with a website about idiots killing people, then obviouusly, all you people need to realize that its not vf, there’s something wrong in thoser peoples heads.
–xACutTooDeepx
April 30th, 2006 at 5:21 pm
If it’s just a phase, how come my brother has been “goth” for 5 years and In septemeber it’ll be 3 for me.
–xACutTooDeepx
April 30th, 2006 at 5:29 pm
Dude! Did I stutter? My user name is based on a poem I wrote. Yes I’m a cutter and I’m in the process of quitting. Self-expression helps from doing it. Didn’t you ever think of it this way? It’s not the websites on the computer, such as myspace, vf, EMAIL ADRESSES, chat sites, all that. IT’S THE COMPUTER ITSELF! No matter what people are going to talk to you. You can’t stop that but it’s your own common sense to ignore then. On my aim, 23 year olds talk to me..once they say there age, I simply say, “Excuse me, I’m 13.”
HOW HARD IS THAT?
-xacuttoodeepx
April 30th, 2006 at 5:31 pm
I am only basing my opinions on the profile that you linked. You don’t see yourself as a stereotype because you are young and you think that you are an individual.
April 30th, 2006 at 5:33 pm
The only “sexy” pose is my Hooker pose. It’s a joke with my friends. The other are just like, yeah there’s the camera. And when I say, “I hate everybody in general,” I’m talking about the immature idiots, like you people, who can’t even prove a point.
Get a profile and leasve a comment. Maybe then you will see how people truly are.
Also, here’s the link to my BEST FRIEND’S profile, go ahead, tell us how she’s so stereotypical now!
http://www.vampirefreaks.com/u/v3lv3txt34rs
–xACutTooDeepx
April 30th, 2006 at 5:34 pm
So you were ‘goth’ when you were ten? Um…..yeah….okay. *rolls eyes* Please do some research on the goth subculture. You obviously have access to the internet so make some good use of it. What is your definition of ‘goth’ by the way?
April 30th, 2006 at 5:36 pm
It’s really sad that you don’t realise how stereotypical you username is, no matter what it is based on.
April 30th, 2006 at 5:38 pm
Isn’t the age limit on that site supposed to be 14 by the way? I think I have proven my point very well. Thanks!
April 30th, 2006 at 5:42 pm
Yes it was from ten, ask my mother. And my definition, hmm. Let’s see.
In my opinion, Goth is a label that people are so immature that call you something just for not dressing the same as them.
Whats your definition?
-xacuttoodeepx
April 30th, 2006 at 5:45 pm
No, being stereotypical would be having a username like this, “ohemmgee_IxCutxMyselfxSoxIxMustxbexGAWFICKX
now thats stereotypical.
–xacuttoodeepx
April 30th, 2006 at 5:48 pm
No you didn’t. You just proved yourself to be an idiot. Myspace is 14. Vf is 13. Before you express your opinions, make sure your facts are right.
-xacuttoodeepx
April 30th, 2006 at 5:54 pm
I’m immature? Oh yeah, judge what you don’t evn know. Why do you think most people hate society? Because of immature adults who don’t know when the issue is seriously stretched out and don’t know when to just SHUT UP. You don’t even know me, so don’t judge me.
April 30th, 2006 at 6:00 pm
Ha, you can’t even spell stupidity. And you’re saying we’re stupid? I mean, I understand if it was a mistake by accidentally pressing it then fine. We all do that. But if you seriously thought its spelt that way then, wow.
-xACutTooDeepx
April 30th, 2006 at 6:07 pm
Did you even check out her profile? If not here is the link again to prove my point.
http://www.vampirefreaks.com/u/v3lv3txt34rs
And I know for a fact I’m not an idividual. I know that!
April 30th, 2006 at 8:12 pm
Wrong. Please look into researching some of the goth websites out there.
My definition? Well, the modern goth subculture, which started around 1980, is an offshoot of the punk subculture. It was created by bands such as Christian Death as a response to the violence that was rampant in the punk scene at the time. It was orginally a subculture based upon music.
There were actually two places, L.A. and England, which basically started the movement. In England the style of music was labeled ‘Batcave’ which was the name of a club in London that featured the bands. While in L.A. the music was originally called Deathrock. ‘Batcave’ music,while having punk influences, also had a bit of glam tacked on. While Deathrock was more punk with a slight splash of metal thrown in for measure.
‘Batcave’ styled bands include Specimen, Alien Sex Fiend, Sex Gang Children, Gene Loves Jezebel,etc…. While the Deathrock bands were Christian Death, 45 Grave,etc….
The term ‘goth’ was not widely applied to the music until the early 90’s. When I was listening to the music back in the 80’s, my friends and I were called ‘modern rockers’ and alternative. The term ‘alternative’ does not have the same meaning now as it did back then.
Along with the music there was also a love of dark literature,art and other things that were not considered ‘normal’. There was really no set of certain things that you liked or disliked because there was no mainstream media attention paid to the subculture, unlike now.
The subculture changed for the worse once bands like Marilyn Manson got labeled ‘goth’ by the mainstream media. Soon he had a ton of fans who thought that being goth was all about shocking people and dressing in black. The fact that it was originally a music based subculture was forgotten, or never learned by them.
So now there are tons of kids running around online, and in the real world, who think being ‘goth’ is about being different and about being rebellious. There are people in their 30’s and their 40’s who still listen to the music, but who now distance themsleves from the subculture because of the mockery that it has become.
April 30th, 2006 at 8:13 pm
Yep…I’m an idiot. Thanks!
April 30th, 2006 at 8:15 pm
So now it has come down to spelling errors and missing certain keys on a keyboard. Oh yeah….your 13.
April 30th, 2006 at 8:24 pm
Everyone is doing the blame game, everyone is saying so and so is just stereotypcial. Just leave them be, it makes them happy. Don’t we all just really want to be happy? So you don’t like VF, stay away from it. You don’t like myspace, stay away from it. Things are going to happen, no one is smarter than the other. The longer this ‘debate’ goes, the stupider it gets. I know it bothers everyone with the things that are being said and points that are trying to be proved. You have to be willing to accept the fact that everyone has their own opinion. Don’t let it phase you or anger you, otherwise your just falling into the ‘immature/angsty teen’ trap. People say things just to push your buttons and make you fire back idiotic responses. The more you respond the more it fuels them. Just stop it all, otherwise you help them prove their point and thats what you were trying to avoid. We are all based on thoughts and opinions, by that we will be judged. Its just in our human nature.
~phailunie~
April 30th, 2006 at 11:10 pm
it’s so good to see that the media still posesses the power to ripp everything out of context…
May 1st, 2006 at 6:19 am
Firstly, I would like to say that I am deeply sorry for those lost in this tragic event. With that said, I would like inform your writers, editors and general staff that they all must have the collective IQ of a length of copper wire, but I would, quite frankly, prefer not to insult the lengths of copper wire of the world. The first thing I would like to point out is that the phrase, “are you stalking me? ‘Cuz that would be super,” is a popular saying on T-Shirts and other apparel sold at Hot Topic and other “gothic” stores. I would also like to know what the quote “Vampirefreaks.com is brought to you by FuckTheMainstream.com,” has to do, not only with the case, or the individuals involved, but with the story in general. Neither the phrase, nor anything concerning it, is mentioned before or after it in the article. I would also like to know why, halfway through the article, the story changes from covering a murder case, to the equivilent of an advertisement for Vampirefreaks.com. As a matter of fact, only the first 35% or so of the story is concerning the murder case. The story seems to be implying, in the begining, that Vampirefreaks.com is, if not the cause, a catalyst of this murder. Then, in the second half, there’s seemingly nothing but endorsements for the site.
Including the quote, “You must be atleast 13 years old to sign up for this site…[etc.]” shows not only that the site has rules and regulations and is attempting to breed a hate free and quistionable content free environment. It also shows the 12 year old defendant violated these rules and therefore was not acting in a way the site admins and creator had in mind. The next few quotes are background on the site, letting people know how it came about and that it was not intended as anything maniacle or sadistic. As for the last two quotes, that’s doing nothing more than showing that the creator of Vampirefreaks.com is a family man with values to which a majority of the population can relate.
~Enders@VampireFreaks.com
May 1st, 2006 at 1:28 pm
Please, there’s no way you can sensibly justify criticising and solely blaming an entire website that officially deplores nazism, sexism and other prejudices just because an impressionable pre-teen was manipulated by a 23 year old.
Press ignorance of subcultures like that is completely laughable – it’s like the “fossil report” on what appears to be “an archaic, handheld device featuring a trigger and a large barrel, found in some sort of metallic time capsule – possibly used to emit radiation, heat or light to cause harm to others”. This fictional report from the future describing a hairdryer that has been chucked in the trash shows how hard it is to judge something we don’t fully understand – and a subculture hijacked by small children who think being unhappy is cool is bound to be misunderstood one way or another – not least by those children.
You cannot seriously suggest that a website is the source of such an extreme act, examine the child’s social environment – that’s where you’ll find a cause, her posts on that website are context-bound symptoms.
May 1st, 2006 at 2:22 pm
Part of that child’s social environment WAS that site.
May 1st, 2006 at 5:59 pm
so you say the “majority” of them are immature ?
so i take it you have looked at over half of them to find the majority and then found that all of those are mature , infact have you spoken to the majority which would have to be at least half of the members which is what ? about 250,000 and then come to the conclusion that they are immature by sendind and recieving messages , people can say anything in a message that they probly wudnt normally say in person
i want to know how have you judged that the “majority” saying that you have looked at quarter of a million profiles and spoke to these members ?
May 1st, 2006 at 6:29 pm
If I see profile after profile claiming that they hate everybody and that the world doesn’t like them then I am going to call them immature. Teenagers are for the most part immature, because they do not have the reasoning skills, nor the common sense that an adult has.
May 1st, 2006 at 9:41 pm
Alright, a lot of the people that posted on this site are very immature. First of all you people are prejudging teenagers. Most of the teenagers that claim to be goth are not they THINK they are goth but they are under the wrong impression of what goth is. Second of all it is stupid to label people into groups. We are not store bought items, we’re people. There for calling someone “gothic, a prep, emo, rocker, jock, druggy” and the hundreds of other labels there are is stupid. Just because someone on VF claimed to be gothic TWELVE YEARS OLD and gothic it doesn’t mean she was. She was an immature CHILD who needed more disipline from her parents who obviously, weren’t watching her close enough. To blame an entire website on the death of three people is plain stupidity and anyone who agrees with the press is just…obnoxious. I’ve been looking up this subject for a while and here’s somthing I came across just to let not only the people reading this, but the people who wrote this article know that those two people did NOT meet on VF. “Both men said Steinke did not meet her on the website vampirefreaks.com, as has been reported, but at an all-ages punk show”
I’d also like to say that Vampirefreaks.com is a VERY good website. I’ve been a user there for a long time and have learned so much. I learned a lot of graphic design and html from that site. I’ve decided on my future BECAUSE OF THAT SITE. There are a lot of people there who aren’t immature and a lot of people who are. I do not label myself by the music I listen to or the way I dress, I don’t label other people based on those things, and I don’t pre judge 500,000 people.
Yes there are A LOT of immature and rude people on vampirefreaks. But there is also a lot of people who aren’t. The person who was 13 and came on here saying she cuts herself…that is a GREAT example of immautre…sorry no offence here. But if you cut yourself (which you shouldn’t) It should be kept a secret and you shouldn’t brag about it. A lot of people who cut themselves d it because it releases pain for them and they need to find another way to do that.
“Goth” is not a trend cutting and being “bi” are trends. For every good person there’s bad person. There are people that are actually Bi and they probably take offence to all these 13 yr olds claiming to be bi when they shouldn’t even be straight yet. I think what we need is more controlling parents, not better websites. To say that the person only killed someone because they were a member on vf is stupid. A “prep” could have killed someone and been from a different website.
The media is totally discriminating against “goths” because if they want to dress like that THEY CAN. If they want to listen to that type of music THEY CAN. We don’t sit here and make fun of people that listen to country of rap now do we? Maybe some members do but that’s them. Have a heart and stop blaming a website for murder. It wasn’t Jet’s fault that some 12 yr old went off and killed someone It was the 12 yr olds fault and her fault ALONE. Not anyone elses, so stop blaming things on something else. She didn’t get the whole “gothic” image from the website. She was obviously “gothic” before she came to the website.
If you think vampirefreaks is a bad website then you are a fool, or you just havent been to the right part of it. Yes, a lot of the things are stupid, or inside jokes. They may be stupid to you but they’re funny to other people and not IMMATURE.
Maturity is when you can sit here and not blame anyone else for someone elses actions. That’s maturity my friends, not NOT following trends because then you’re being different and apparently that’s a trend too. So get over your stupid little trends and labels and figure out how the world REALLY works then come on here and post something back.
-Childxofthexkorn@vampirefreaks.com
May 1st, 2006 at 10:06 pm
i really doubt you went through a large number of profiles just looking and clues or hints that they hate the world etc
but just incase you did just because you hate things like the world etc whatever they claim 2 hate does not make them “goth” it makes them human , no 1 can say there isnt soemthing in the world that they dislike , can you ?
May 1st, 2006 at 10:51 pm
She is right.Half the people on the site are really cool.You all just think because it’s a “goth” site doesn’t mean it is evil.I have a profile on there and I’m not even a so-called “goth”.We are people just like everyone else and it is wrong to blame us just because of the way we dress.I may only be 13 but I do know alot.There are some people that are “freaky” but that doesn’t make them evil.Most “normal” people are crazier then us.How about you people take a look at myspace.Just because that isn’t a “gothic” site doesn’t mean that there is stuff going on.I have been on there before and I see alot of people saying they are going to kill someone or kill themselfs.I also see people saying they are gonna do herion and things like that.Now most the people on there are not “gothic” but look they are just as bad.Just because something goes wrong with 2 people doesn’t mean a thing.Those people might be crazy or something else.But just because they dress in all black and wear heavy make-up doesn’t mean a thing.They might just be trying to hide.All of us of Vampirefreaks have our problems.We might be depressed or angry but you know why,Well I’ll tell you.It’s because everyone bullies us just because we dress diffrent or listen to diffrent music or do diffrent things.So maybe if some people would learn to stop all of that maybe alot of us “goths” would be happier.Think about that.See how it is to live like us.Just dress in all black and listen to SlipKnot or Cradle of Filth and walk around with your head down.Just do it.You’ll end up in tears by the time you go home.Just think abot what we have to go though everyday.And maybe it wasn’t Vampirefreaks fault.Maybe the girl was picked on,maybe even by her own parnets.And I know that it hurts.I learned it.And the person can dress diffrently so they don’t get picked on but why would they do that.A part of living is to express yourself.Now I know that from that I could atleast prove that most of us are not immature idots.
x_xSilentWhispersx_x
May 1st, 2006 at 11:20 pm
You are so right hun (It’s Alysha, lol.) People do need to grow up and that does include adults. Maybe the girl was picked on, bullied, or her parents did something to her (sexual abuse, harrassing, etc.) No one but her knows that. I agree with you so much. I mean remember 6th grade? We got picked on so much by everyone. And we started the cutting because of it. Teenage life is hell. All you adults were teens once, didn’t you get picked on?
Maybe thats why she killed them. It’s not the websites we go on, its society. My bestfriend Brooke Sargent (R.I.P) killed herself October 5th last year because of people and her home life. Think about it.
–xACutTooDeepx
May 2nd, 2006 at 4:02 am
hell yeah man well said well said!!!!!!!!!
Dark_Elf86@VampireFreaks.com
May 2nd, 2006 at 4:33 am
Your welcome. And apparently you are, jif you even agree with it, sarcastic or not. Read the rules when you go to make a profile.
– http://www.vampirefreaks.com/u/xACutTooDeepx –
May 2nd, 2006 at 5:07 am
First off i agree with the VF emebers here and some of the ones who arent as far as i know made a few aswell. So but all this lableing is pretty damn lame and in the way of music to me music is life and i listen to all kinds. My sister is on VF and she has MEXICAN RAP on her profile so really lableing buy music and the site is pretty damn STUPID. And with clothing i wear bondage bants and alot of black and i also were blue jeans and holister so u cant label people bye what they may were. As far for the murders i give my regards to the rest of the family of the ones who died. I hope u know they r in a better place then this mitakenly horrible world we live in. u cant just blame the VampireFreaks site for an underage member killing people. Myspace has alot more roblems like that then VampireFreaks probably does. And yet we dont hear about it all we hear about is how a school shooting or rapists were foiled. Well what if that doesnt work and probably most of the time it doesnt. Members of myspace r apoart of everyday crime and murders and what not but myspace isnt targeted so what the hell is up with that. And what does a clothing site that sells stuff practically the same as hot topics have anything to do with it? And proving that Jet has his head in the right place with a wife and kid and a job thats working out for him that he enjoys dman i think u guys r jelouse or somin i dotn know and dont care. And show that the site has rules. Seriously there a always people that break rules so hell its why there are rules right for people to follow and or break. All VampireFreaks.com is is just another communtiy like freeskiing or myspace or anyother and all of those have people who do stupid shit so y dont u look at ALL of those and research on people there and im sure that the murders had a myspace as well so think on that one. SO thank u bverymuch short sighted people for ur shorsighted and descriminating thought and comments towards the greatest site and all its member and what not hope not to see u in anylife.
Proud Member of VampireFreaks.com,
Robbie
May 2nd, 2006 at 4:21 pm
Bad grammar is used allover the internet, not only on VampireFreaks. As a dedicated member I can tell you this: VampireFreaks is the safest community I know. It’s the only place where you can post your complaints directly at the owner and the admins. They’ll certainly help you with it. It’s a large community, with over half a million members. Of course it attracts people like that 12 year old girl, and suicidal types, there have to be a few bad seeds! But most of the people i know out there, are mature, sophisticated people who have earned my respect.
This is just like the Columbine murder: they need a scapegoat. Back then it was Marilyn Manson, now it’s VampireFreaks. Both aren’t really the ones to blame. I say seek the guilt at the parents: why did the girl kill them, anyway? Why did she become so easy to manipulate, so instable? I don’t think the site changed her, but her real-life environment did.
May 2nd, 2006 at 4:32 pm
There is nothing more funny than witnessing a 13 year old attempting a ’slap-down’.
May 2nd, 2006 at 4:34 pm
Grammar is your friend. Use it. I am not going to attempt to read through that.
May 2nd, 2006 at 4:34 pm
Indeed, ‘goth’ isn’t just a label: It’s a subculture that started about 25 years ago. I’m 17, but I did do my research. Also, as the years passed by there came many subcultures, such as cybergoth. That style is based on rave-music, which is quite similar to techno, but then a bit “darker”.
You’re not goth by wearing black, honey. A lot of people wear black, and it has nothing to do with it. Goths can wear neon pink, green, blue, or whatever colour they want and it doesn’t matter, it realy doesn’t matter. It’s more something that the people you are blaming for the “label” goth have made up.
Just a question, what kind of music do you listen to?
May 4th, 2006 at 4:17 am
It is people like you to that make the “gothic culture” seem bad. You two are immature and are just proving parents worse fears by fighting with each other on a news story. Stop proving them right and show them that the color black is jsut a color and that Vampire Freaks is a site for blogging your feelings just like all the others. What people choose to do is just that their choice.
May 4th, 2006 at 8:09 pm
Here’s a brilliant piece of work. Assholes is one word..not 2. The word is believe not belive. Discuss, not descuss. I can only imagine the threat of an illiterate coming face to face with a literate person. Might I suggest you spend less time pretending to be a vampire or whatever it is you think you are, and a bit more on things that will make you a productive, responsible, self-supporting adult in the near future, and less of a simpering, dough faced child who thinks he has powers and can’t spell who the rest of us will be forced to support in one way or another because he suffers terminal neural misfires. The thing that bothers me most is you could possibly be the zit faced, scrawny, whiney, nobody-understands-my-pain asshole fukin up my order at McDonalds.
May 4th, 2006 at 8:30 pm
So you are saying the internet is now responsible for raising a child? Au contraire! What parent does not monitor a 12 year old on a computer? One asking for trouble, thats who. Methinks if I had a child that was so ..ummm..impressionable, that child would not have access to a computer much less the internet. Net users cannot be responsible for kids who lie about their age, nor can we monitor where anyone’s child goes on the net. Only a parent can do that. Sloughing off blame onto a Goth community is akin to giving aspirin for a brain tumor.
The “goth” culture does not encourage 12 year olds to kill their parents. Not that I’m aware of. It’s merely a form of self expression, and youth is entitled to that. When these people are 30ish, some sooner, some later, they will confine their Goth’iness to online blogs and chat rooms. In the morning they will comb their hair, don appropriate attire and assume their position as your local bank teller or supermarket manager. It would probably be a real good idea if parents would assume responsibility for the raising and welfare of the fruit of their loins rather than pointing fingers at those who have NO say in how that offspring is raised. Key figures, i.e., parents, failed that 12 year old miserably. The Goth community had nothing to do with it.
May 4th, 2006 at 8:32 pm
You’re 13, and you do matter. It matters that you even surfed such sites freely.
May 4th, 2006 at 8:49 pm
Sooo, cutting is a solution? No hun. Juvenile and immature thought processes, individuals too young or too immature and not possessing the tools needed to solve problems is the problem. Your rationale is a bit more than slightly skewed and more than a bit disturbed. I suppose, should you survive long enough to start your own family and one of your offspring gives you grief, you’ll just cut yourself to solve that little issue eh? I can only imagine what a flat tire and no spare will do. Failure to confront problems and issues, failure to use good problem solving methods, lack of insight and oppositional behaviors is the problem. There is nothing wrong with anyone choosing to express themselves in the Goth style. Unfortunately, the things some declaring themselves Goth do is a sort of signature. I wear black, I wear dark makeup, I have a vampire mindset…I cut myself to feel pain…I dream of suicide…my thoughts are consumed with misery, unhappiness and death. I have no positive solutions to any of my problems. I am Goth. Hence, Goth is associated with all the negative things any human being can dream up.
Agreed, no web site or lifestyle online is responsible for the actions this 12 year old took upon herself. The failure, again, lies with her parents. Those entrusted with her care, safety, welfare failed her. The 23 year old should have been put in jail..day 1. The 12 year old should have been monitored…day 1. Must I take you by the hand and walk you to and from school? The mall? Must I sit with you all day in class? Post a guard at your door? Bars on your windows? Trash the computer? I will if I think I need to. Did I leave out the occasional arse kicking? If I must, I will. Monitor your friends, meet their parents, verify your whereabouts and with whom? Yep. When you are 18 and on your own, you do it your way. Until then, my way. I am a parent.
May 4th, 2006 at 9:03 pm
Mmhmm. That’s what you do. And most of us are waiting for you to grow up, get through all the changes and choices you think are necessary, before we waste a whole lot of time getting to know you. You don’t seem to realize, as another poster has already said, you are following a pattern..one that’s been around for millenia. You are nothing new, your angst is nothing new, your desire to be different is nothing new. The majority of you are akin to lemmings. You follow. Most of you just follow…someone or something as long as it strikes a nerve in those around you, then whine because you are pointed out as different? Goth does not need defending. Little girls and boys who think they are above the rest, think they stand out from the rest, glorify themselves with another’s invention and just follow like little lemmings..do. If, next fall, all the Goth people you adore and think so highly of all went to wearing bridal fashions..there you would be..close on their heels in your fluffy little bridal gown and veil. Standing out isn’t an external thing, it’s not an appearance. It all comes from inside. If you chose to be one of millions of other 13 or so year olds who are “goth” cuz it’s so cool and different rather than an INDIVIDUAL who excels at something worthwhile and substantial..your loss. And possibly ours as well. Who knows what outstanding things are capable of a mind currently so addled with the color black, dark makeup and cutting? The honor role students emerging today are far fewer in number than the wannabe Goth kiddies whining about their misery on a web site.
May 4th, 2006 at 9:07 pm
Your mother is a fruit fly and should never have been allowed to reproduce. Nothing wrong with a little bleach in the gene pool.
May 4th, 2006 at 9:17 pm
Why is anyone arguing with a 13 year old who thinks she’s mature and isnt? She disrespectful, doesn’t know her place in the world much less her ass from her elbow, and seems to think a 13 year old “hooker” pose is cool. I’ve read all the intelligent responses to this petulant child. Complete waste of intelligent conversation on a child who obviously isn’t up to it. Best response to temperamental children is ..IGNORE. Let her rant.
May 4th, 2006 at 9:23 pm
It’s probably really okay for a 13 year old to play golf. Posting inappropriate pictures of themselves as well as other inappropriate behaviors is probably not. Big diff!
May 4th, 2006 at 10:06 pm
You haven’t been reading my posts. I am a 35 year old who has been listening to goth/punk/deathrock for the past 20 years. So, I know that not all ‘goth’ people are going to be murderers. HOWEVER it is partially the responsibility of a website to control the content of their site.
May 5th, 2006 at 9:48 am
I declare anyone that has ‘Preps’ in their dislikes section, someone who is stuck in a stereotype.
May 5th, 2006 at 9:49 am
You’re the one trying to tell us not to judge a whole group of people, yet, your best friend is doing the exact same thing to a different group of people. A hypocrite is a very bad thing to be.
May 6th, 2006 at 10:31 pm
ok well thats aload of bollocks thers always gonna be a few extremists ther all ways is on every site of this kind. now i am a member of vampire freaks and im not a goth, ther for all these storys of vf being full of “dark goths” is shite there is more emos in ther then goths. since i have been a member of vf i have never had a problem from any of the people on it and they have been nothing but kind and friendly
May 7th, 2006 at 4:04 pm
Grammar is your friend.
May 17th, 2006 at 10:13 pm
Nicely copy-and-pasted.
May 18th, 2006 at 3:53 pm
I wrote that actually. Unlike some people I am articulate and know how to write a sentence.
May 23rd, 2006 at 3:35 am
Frig off randy.
July 16th, 2006 at 8:04 pm
If I might make an observation…
This is indeed a wonderful display of the tremendous human capacity to argue and slag each other off for, well what is now at least a month in this case. In fact, if it were not for the fact that we get older and sometimes find better things to do than (verbally) attack each other, then it could quite possibly endure indefinately. I cannot say that this is a good way to spend my time, but I could not resist making a little comment here…as it is so very amusing.
Although I do hope your little show continues despite my input, I do ask you to look over just a handful of (or more if you can spare even more time) your posts, and then think about it. You know, think. Utilising your brain’s frontal lobe for visual reception and possibly even your assessive abilities to work out just how much of a waste of time and a long, thick jet of steam spewing forth from an opinionated personality this has been. Maybe you’ve both just got an axe to grind. It matters not, since it would seem that you could argue about this with or without a reason. This is a very interesting, if very heated, debate and if it will keep your little lives happy, please do not feel you have to beg permission to continue. Quite the contrary, my fight-loving friends. I shall be back to see if this argument of opressive proportions has got anywhere, or if it continues in circles. Either way, it matters not, for the world will keep on spinning and your lives will carry on slipping away…
The clock is ticking my little chums, and it isn’t going to stop, no matter how many proverbial points you win over each other. Before you make another comment, just think about whether it’s really worth it.
I quote:
“Grammar is your friend”
Oh cool! I’ve got a friend…but I was always taught it isn’t nice to use your friends as your own devices.
“Frig off randy.”
You tell ‘em. Hey look! A full stop! Wow…can I get its autograph?
August 17th, 2006 at 12:48 pm
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September 14th, 2006 at 3:06 pm
why is this site still in existance? If there was a murder and this site seems to be a meeting place for kids and adults to vent horrible thoughts and ideas, why not delete it completely? this guy in montreal gill, went on a shooting rampage yesterday. I would suggest that this site should have reported a few of his crazy thoughts to law enforcement..I kinda feel that the world would be a bit safer if the person who originally started this site passed on any suspicious writings to people in the rcmp and the fbi to profile and monitor.
has anyone ever heard of warning bells and prevention? shame on you for allowing people to discuss murder and bloody massacres so freely. I know it must be hard to defrentiate between a maladjusted teen who is rebellious and an actual killer, but I gotta wonder if you read this crap and have any sense of responsibility?
by the way, yes I am anonymous, but the only coward here is the person who started this site and lacks any moral fiber or sense of duty to innocent victims, like those who died and were injured in the montreal massacre in dawson college. the guy started his rantings here…what did you do to stop him? nothing? maybe you’re the coward?
March 28th, 2007 at 11:05 am
Yet again the public hit out at nothing! a tragedy yes but vampirefreaks and affiliates should not be penalised. content rules are there for a reason so “cildren” are not influenced. we had the exact same rules on http://www.iniquityclothing.com when we had questionable material but truth is you cannot control everybody! <a href=”http://www.iniquiityclothing.com”></a>
September 10th, 2008 at 9:41 am
I think that this is possibly the biggest load of crap i have ever heard. I have been a VF member for like 6 years now since i was 14. There is no one thing that makes a person go over the edge like that, people are mentaly ill because thats the way they where made, end of.
Marlyn manson has been blamed on numerous occassions for this type of thing, mostly by stupid people who would rather damn anything that makes people happy that is not the norm to hell instead of trying to understand it. You can’t just put the assume these people are evil becuase of the music they listen to or the sites they go on. Would this be your reasoning for Hitlers madness?
Vampire freaks is a great socialisng network site and just because these people met on here does not meen it is what spurs them to commit such crimes. If these people had met over Myspace or Bebo would the same thing have been said? Fuck no! Becuase those sites are not mainly aimed at people who are into the alternative life style. You people need to get a shitting grip!