Online Goth murders
p2p news / p2pnet: More charges could be laid in the Goth murders of a family in Alberta, Canada, in which a 12-year-old girl and her 23-year-old online boyfriend are accused of being the killers.
Sgt Dave Townsend of Medicine Hat police, “refused to say if sex charges are being contemplated against Jeremy Allan Steinke, 23, who faces three counts of first-degree murder along with his young girlfriend,” says the Canadian Press.
“Investigators also weren’t commenting on Internet images of the girl holding a gun on a website dedicated to Goth culture and vampires. Her identity is protected under the Youth Criminal Justice Act.”
The alleged murderers are members of VampireFreaks.com.
Also See:
Goth murders – Goth site members in murder case, April 26, 2006
Canadian Press – More charges in triple killing?, April 27, 2006
April 27th, 2006 at 6:55 pm
i must say, at least personally. All encounters with goths were wierd. These people really need to stfu or get help. All they do is cause trouble, they are the results of genetically screwed up lab experiments without anti-depressants and knifes.
April 27th, 2006 at 10:28 pm
I don’t know why I can’t log-in, but I had to respond to this – both the above letter and the story in general.
Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with the response. While I really don’t know any Goth kids, I’ve seen them around enough and also through various websites I happen to catch in my travels across cyberspace. Not a pretty sight and I don’t think I could have them over for a visit without a good deal of couhing, sputtering, and spit going all over the living room from me.
However, I have a granddaughter whom I really love and hold close to my heart. She calls me frequently to just chat with “Nana.” One night during one of our telephone soirees she was remarking that “I wonder what people would think if I just killed myself?” To say the least, I was shocked by this coming from my precious Vicky. I gave the usual “it’s extremely selfish to do such a thing and you’ll leave a lot of broken hearts.” I went on to ask her why she would consider this, and I received a lot of rambling about worrying about what people think of her and talking about her, things like that. She is nowhere near being a Goth. She has a father who would never put up with it. Anyway, after quite a bit of consoling on my part, we hung up. She called me about two nights later and I happened to ask her about who her favorite singer was. She said “Evanescence.” I’d never heard of her. I did a little procurement of some of her songs, because I’d promised Vicky that I would send her a collection of tunes by the aforementioned artist.
When I listened to Evanescence, I found it quite easy to understand why the question of suicide came up, because it is quite the most depressing music I’ve listened to in years. I sent it anyway, along with some meditation and nature sounds that she likes to help her sleep. She called me up to thank me enormously. She was thanking me so much, you would think she had won the lottery. I commented about Evanescence, saying “If I listened to that, I’d me depressed too. No wonder all the teenage suicides and shootings, that music is so depressing.” Know what her reply was? An enthusiastic “Oh yesssss, I looovve her!”
Go figure.
Bev
April 28th, 2006 at 8:21 pm
What is a 23 year old man doing messing around with a 13 year old for? Where were this girl’s parents while she was on the computer with him?
They got what they deserved. ALL of them.
April 29th, 2006 at 1:03 am
have you ever lived the life of a goth it is people like the ones posted above that make people “goths” it makes me sick that people can blame music for ths as well. evanesence is a great band and is doing what they bleave in all of you stetotipical people make me sick blaming goths emos and outher things you dont understand for every thing thats wrong in the world
you know nothing what “goth” prople do is a self expression and love the way they are if you want to know the true problem then look at your self
further more they are also blameing websites for this murder websites like vampirefreaks this is a website of culture and a home for your socal outcasts a place to vent all there problems and all you say is omg its a “gothic” website well u know what fuck you
April 29th, 2006 at 7:24 pm
Upon reading the above, I am more inclined to stick to my opinion. It is a shame that literacy is so undermined in their culture. Please, if you want to express an opinion, do it intelligently. I rest my case.
May 1st, 2006 at 2:28 pm
The Gothic community has been looked down upon for generations. There are many prejudiced opinions and fears regarding the Goths, but most of them, if not all, are falsehoods. People tend to think that Goths are Satanists, who are sadomasochistic, suicidal, homicidal freaks who have an unnatural obsession with death and blood. They also think that the Goths are mentally unstable, and a threat to society or themselves, and that we should be admitted. This in many cases is quite untrue. People tend to pass these judgments onto the Gothic community because of the bad media, and the mystery behind them. There is no positive publicity, documented research, or information from the inside of the community. So what is the Gothic community really like?
I have been immersed in the Gothic community for a very long time. Due to this length I have become very well known throughout it, and I am a leader in my community. As I researched information regarding gender, religion, morals, race, etc I realized there was no real statistics or polls taken to acquire this information, so I proceeded to collect my own data. My data was taken from a total of five hundred thousand Goths, all responding to a single survey. There are many misconceptions about Goths; for example â Not all Goths wear black, not all of them are depressed, and not all of them hate everyone. On the contrary, Goths tend to be very intelligent, highly moral, and very loyal to their family and friends.
The gothic community is very diverse, and we tend to not pay attention to race or ethnicity. Most of the time, weâre more interested in finding kindred souls with whom we can relate to. However, the racial diversity in the Gothic community consists of predominately Caucasians (67%), Followed by Hispanic (8%), Native American and Black (10%), Mixed Race (7%), and Other Minorities such as Asian or Middle Eastern (8%). This could have much to do with the fact that the dominant country of the Gothic Community is the United States (61%), followed by the United Kingdom (13%), then Europe and Canada (16%). (MyMentalHell, 2006) With the U.S. being the dominant country in the Gothic community this has a major impact on the racial population, as Caucasian Americans is the dominate race in the U.S. (80%). (lungusa.org) I know that there are some racial issues in the Gothic community as many white supremacy groups tend to drift towards the Gothic culture, but this is not welcomed at all and in many cases is look down upon severely. (vampirefreaks.com, 2006)
The leaders in society tend to treat the Goths with much distain or distaste. We are looked upon as evil, bad, or dangerous. Inside our community the Goths tend to be willing to accept anyone that can display they are a good person and intelligent, regardless of if they fit in. The leaders of the Gothic community tend to be given that status through proving themselves worthy; such as a dominating personality, keen intelligence, and/or leadership qualities. The leaders within our community tend to treat people like equals, providing the individual proves themselves as intelligent, and good hearted. One thing that many Goths wonât tolerate is ignorance and stupidity. This is only reinforced by their leadersâ distain for it.
Many times the ignorance surrounding the Gothic community tends to be because of a lack of information regarding it. Goth is considered a subculture, although with it being one of the fastest growing subcultures, soon it may be considered a culture all on its own, many times there isnât any real accurate information about the people. Theyâre not protected by the equal opportunity laws, they tend to be looked at as trouble when it comes to the law enforcement, and unless youâre a corporate Goth, you tend to get overlooked for many job positions. I am not even as freaky looking as some of the Goths that are out there, as I have no piercings, or visible tattoos, and I get overlooked for job positions simply because I look like I could fit the bill. I have black hair due to my Native American ancestry, and very pale skin, because of my Irish ancestry. This tends to be a problem, since this kind of prejudice will inhibit a Goth from getting a so-called respectable job or career. However, many Goths usually are into programming, or computers of some kind. This could be a trend, where Information Technology simply appeals to the high intelligence of a Goth, or perhaps itâs simply a well paying career that will accept a Goth with how they look.
The local and national Media loves the Gothic community, unfortunately to much dismay of the Goths and more often than not the Media tends to be detrimental to the Gothic image. The Media tends to feed Society what they want to hear, rather than the facts, this means that the Goths are perceived as evil, homicidal, sadistic people who will kill you in your sleep. This misconception was only supported by the Columbine High School Massacre, which the Media portrayed the youngsters as Gothic, despite the fact that the people of the Gothic community denied their involvement in their community. This only proceeded to further tarnish our reputation, and create mass panic regarding Goths. After the Media made that blunder, they reported, quietly I might add, that the youngsters were not, indeed, Goths after all.
Since I am a leader of my community I can not tell you how the people feel about the leaders and their treatment towards them, or what they feel the differences and similarities between us are. I have usually gotten positive responses, with the occasional disgruntled teenager. However, I remember when I was a ânormalâ Goth, I recall being star-struck about the presence of the Elder Goths (Leaders in our community are referred to as Elders). After I got to know them, I grew fond of the Elders as they were wise, gentle people who had a great sense of humor, and could hold wonderfully intelligent and philosophical conversations. However, it is well known, that to anger an Elder tends to earn you a verbal beating that you wonât forget anytime soon, as ignorance, stupidity and disrespect of an Elder tends to be rewarded with a severe tongue-lashing, often called âflamingâ.
The age groups of the Gothic community are gaining momentum quickly according to my polls. Out of 500 thousand people the teenagers 13-19 take up 85 percent of the population, 20-29 takes up 13 percent, 30-39 takes up 1.5 percent, 40-49 takes up 0.3 percent, and 50+ takes up 0.2 percent. The Gothic community is made up of 61 percent females, and 39 percent males. However, with the youngest age group the females are the higher percentage, but the older age groups the situation switches and than itâs the males that are the higher percentage. This shows the growing popularity of the Gothic culture. However donât assume that just because your child decides to identify as a Goth that they are evil and a Satanist. The religious diversity among the Goths is spread out fairly evenly. About 28 percent are Christian or Catholic, 25 percent are Wiccan or Pagan, 18 percent are Atheist or Agonistic, 16 percent are Satanist or LeVeyan, and 13 percent consists of a mixture of other minor religions like Judaism, Muslim, Shamanism, etc. (MyMentalHell, 2006)
The Moral values of the Gothic culture are actually very high, despite popular belief. About 70 percent follow the golden rule, 80 percent believe in helping the needy, 90 percent believe in respecting your elders, Abiding by the laws (the reasonable ones), avoiding violence, and being mannerly and polite to everyone. A whopping 100 percent are against cruelty to animals and children. The majority of us also put Family, Honor, and Friends before Love, Pride, Money, and Appearance. We are highly moral, and believe in being the best people we can be, despite our frightening image. Although because of the Gothâs above average intelligence this does make them less likely to abide by laws and rules that they feel are unreasonable, such as a tight dress code, or not carrying a knife bigger than 6 inches while in a dangerous neighborhood. Many times the American Goths value their freedom of Expression, and will loudly protest when that freedom is taken from them. They understand that people feel uncomfortable with how they look, but they also feel uncomfortable with any other appearance. Tattoos and piercings are often considered art, and are beautiful to us, although the rest of society feels otherwise. (MyMentalHell, 2006)
If there was one thing I could change about the Gothic community it would be that Society accepts us as less of a threat, and that we would be more accepted as we are in every type of environment. There have been times where I was dressed in expensive, elegant, but Gothic clothing and denied service because of my appearance. This is particularly offensive to me because, to the customer service representative, I could have been a very wealthy woman in either mourning, or wearing a black dress to a formal evening event. I have no tattoos or piercings that are visible, and I shouldnât be a victim of prejudice because I like black clothing and was born with pale skin and black hair.
I have given you an inside look into the Gothic community, I have shown you statistics, polls, and facts. I have shown you the prejudice, and the lack of tolerance to someone who expresses themselves as a Goth. Perhaps the next time you meet a Goth you will welcome them with open arms instead of a cold shoulder. The voices of the Gothic community cry out to be heard, and I, as one of their leaders have spoken, let us be ignored no more. Let us be accepted, as we are, no strings attached, and we will accept you, as we always have.
May 27th, 2006 at 7:16 pm
Literacy is not undermined in goth culture, in fact, quite the opposite is the case. The person who replied to your message was most likely too angry to type carefully, and I woudn’t be surprised given the narrow-mindedness of the opinions you expressed.
Talk of suicide should always be taken seriously, even if you think they are ‘just seeking attention’ If someone confides in you that they may be suicidal or depressed, then telling them off or calling them selfish is the LAST thing you should do. Put yourself in their shoes, how do you think it feels to be called selfish by someone you thought you could trust, especially given your state of mind? You are the one being selfish by only thinking of how her death would affect you, you didn’t even consider how SHE felt or why she was confiding in you!
As for depressing music, are you seriously suggesting that listening to a certain type of music will make you depressed? Engage your brain! It is people’s experiences that cause them to be depressed, not some singer! Anyway, I personally find evanescence to be very empowering and comforting.
If you want to find out more about the goth subculture, I recommend the following sites:
http://www.whitefantom.com/goth/
http://www.religioustolerance.org/goth.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth
and as for the suicide topic, READ THIS NOW!!!
http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/whattodo.htm
ps I didn’t chose the name “anonymous coward” it’s just what came up as I’m not registered.
May 27th, 2006 at 7:34 pm
“I, as one of their leaders have spoken” – well, speak for yourself, but don’t presume to be some kind of official representitive!!
I agree with most of this, but I have to say that it is a little misleading to talk about goth “leaders” and “elders.” It makes it sound like some kind of organised cult or something…
an “elder goth” is just a term for an older goth who’s been around for a while and knows what they’re talking about. In fact, I’ve never heard anyone actually use the word. There is no such thing as a “goth leader”, and anyone who proclaims themselves as such sounds VERY pretentious in my opinion.
Maybe things are different in the US, but over here (where goth originated, let’s not forget
September 14th, 2006 at 4:48 pm
I wrote that essay, for a college paper. Its plagerism that you didn;t accredit me.
As for being a “leader in my community” I am a leader in my area of Gothic community. I am a senior site administrator For VampireFreaks.com, I help organize, the events in my area, and I am associated with most of the Gothic clubs in my area. So I have the right to claim myself as a leader in the community.
Not to mention, that most people need an appointed leader to represent their group, or the group will not be taken seriously. Granted most people in the Gothic Culture don’t paticularly approve of authority figures, however, I felt in the case of my paper, it would be easier for people to accept what I was saying as a fact if I appointed myself as one of the leaders. I also explained that elders were simply someone who was in the gothic subculture for a prolonged period of time. The terminology used is what is used in the culture. If someone assumes its occultist, than its their closed mindedness that is the problem, not the terminology.
Thank you,
M. Pheonix
aka MyMentalHell.
April 6th, 2007 at 11:51 am
Please learn to use spell check people, are goths “weird” or do you really mean wierd????
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:37 pm
I am from Australia, and i found your depth, and statistics in this matter very unnerving because gothics/goths in australia are treated as cold. since the murder in Adelaide, south australia my friends, and myself have been abused verbally, and physically. Australia is known for is care free attitude, yet Gothics/goths are still feared, or hated because of how we look. I am 16 and i am in my final year of high school, i may not be as looked up to in my community unlike yourself, but i found that the way you have written this, is similar to how i am righting for my major assignment. You talked about how they are looked down apon, and seen as satanist, while my assignment is about the discrimination they recieve, when people don’t know alot about them.
Thankyou for posting this, it has been very helpful for my assignment.
May 13th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
You do not know any of them obviously. I do. The parents are two of the nicest, unselfish people I have ever met.
Parent’s can’t follow their children 24/7.There are computers every where.
Do you really believe a nine year old deserved it.
You are as sick as the 23 year old. He is the real culprit – a manipulative, self-centered pedophile who took 3 innocent people’s lives because he was having a temper tantrum because the parent’s were trying to stop him from molesting their daughter.
Your attitude sickens me. But I guess that is what you were wanting,